Is the Loughner Mug Shot Fake?

Originally posted by Doomzilla

The ears and eye colours were the biggest discrepancies imo .
Neither look 22 imo either .
So you think they are 2 different people . Are either Jared?
Why did they release this second picture in your opinion ? All it has done is create more suspicion

Hi Doomzilla,


At first glance, once resizing the pictures to match, they do seem very similar and are close enough a match to be considered a decent "doppelganger" or body double for simple eyewitness purposes in the heat of a rapidly deployed violent action. Given longer scrutiny, and especially confronted with photo comparison, it is however clear that this is not by any means a perfect body double.


First the impostor is a good bit older, at least by ten years. Second his skull shape is sufficiently different to not pass the test. Then there are what might be considered less critical things, but much darker eyes of the wrong color is definitely not a good match. The impostor is a caricature of Jared, in heavier build. Given that neither mugshot conveniently shows a height gradation behind the picture we can assume that this is because they had also a visible height discrepancy. Jared is a PATSY.


Why did they release this second set of mugshots? Probably because they thought the public would be so clueless that they'd never notice? Or because somebody in law enforcement wanted to let the cat out of the bag? Or because we're no threat to TPTB because we're simply some crazy conspiracy theorists who don't even believe NORAD can be defeated by a few guys with box cutters. They force feed lies the mainstream sheeple and care little about us revealing the truth, leaving us to be neutralized in closely monitored discussion board ghettos like ATS.


Whatever their motivation, this points once again to the standard Modus Operandi of the CIA's MK Ultra Mind Controlled Manchurian Candidate assassins doubled by an innocent patsy who can't remember if he tried that he isn't the culprit. Sirhan Sirhan still can't remember a thing decades later.


GS

reply to post by Getsmart


What do you think about the possibility that if the first released mugshot is an imposter, they already eliminated Loughner and now a plant is in his spot in the court room? This way he can't speak out about his circumstance? I have a thread on it here

www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=10653949#pid10653949

When you look at the first court drawings it showed a man with longer hair than Loughner and a different face, they then released a more Jared looking depiction.

first court drawing




these look more like the first mugshot

Originally posted by Doomzilla

GS do you find similarities with mk victims such as Arizona wilder . Do you believe their accounts , obviously a few claim sightings of reptilians etc . Whats your take ?

Like most of what you learn on the Internet there's a lot of truth mixed up with either folks who are themselves deluded as to some details, or very biased in their interpretation, or jumping to conclusions, or simply seeing things from a very different perspective than we do. Then there are a lot of Disinfo Agents peddling lies embedded in a large percentage of verifiable truth. This makes it hard to figure out what's genuine and what's toxic.


My own approach is to grant everything a plausibility until I can discover it is false. This way you can entertain multiple scenarios, not being sure for extended periods of time, but finally figuring things out when events either confirm ideas or prove them false. This approach by approximation offers an added virtue in today's complex information age of enabling you to sift out false ideas from honest sources and to hold onto valid truths mixed into lies by manipulative propagandists.


It's a lot of work at first, especially getting over the discomfort of not really having a valid version to hold onto, but later become much easier and rewarding.


Getmart

Originally posted by pianopraze

Didn't know opting out was an option... not heard anyone who has had a choice before.

Hi Piano Praze,


We all have the option of opting out of anything, the issue is what is the consequence. One of my brothers had to step up and "buy" my release by his own subservience as their tool. That is perhaps one of the greatest sacrifices I can imagine, and owe him forever. I was however programmed in "self-destruct" mode and had up to 3 near fatal accidents per month which I each time miraculously survived to everyone's amazement. I think it has to do with destiny, as well as turning the training against the trainers. Plus, obviously, I haven't been too actively targeted other than by indirect means.

Originally posted by pianopraze

Are you a renegade? Does anyone truely ever FULLY slip their programming? How can you know. Even Duncan says he's still being used... as well as every other MK victim I know.

Not ever fully. Yet sometimes things make you sabotage your own rebelling, this is programmed into you quite deeply. For example, when writing the above post with the photo comparisons, prior to posting it my fingers moved distinctly onto keyboard keys to remove the post before it got posted - this is why much of the time I prefer to write longer posts on a text editor which I save repeatedly as I go along. It isn't such a big deal, but it does show that they don't need to access my keyboard, they simply access my hand movements. Whether this is due to remnants of embedded inhibition actuators or whether it has to do with remote mind control technology is beyond me.

Also once I was interviewed for a very high position restructuring two companies that were merging. The interviewer asked me to complete a standard psychological questionnaire which I filled out quite candidly. She looked at it studiously and suddenly got a look of terror and shock and did all she could to get me out of her office as quickly as possible. What did it say? Maybe she got the impression that Jared Loughner was lurking?!?

Originally posted by pianopraze

You don't loose your mind or shut down... you disassociate..

I was stating that from memory. What you experience when it happens to you is a total loss of control, of consciousness. What other identity ongoings happen you ignore, they aren't there and you're happy to be rid of the experience of your own life which is utterly unlivable. That is why I said you lose your mind, not in the colloquial sense but figuratively, as in totally losing it. You let go of any control over yourself or your experience and shut down. That another identity starts up you don't know, it isn't you, you're "off the hook".

Originally posted by pianopraze

...which creates Dissociative Identity Disorder.. and each "dissociative personality" become an "altar" which is sealed with a Daemon. Each altar has it's own life and specific purpose. Some are aware of the system some are not. Some are full personalities, some are just used in programming to keep the victim unaware they are a MK victim in various ways... Spinners, and suicide, and "check yourself into the hospital" and flashers which bring up the electroshock to cover over memories... and you seem to know more about some of this than me. Survival is the hardest thing according to most Mk victims. "Why should I be alive when everyone else is dead?" which of course syncs right into so much of the programing. They know psychology much better than any textbook. Screw freud.. he was a know nothing freak.

That the alter is an ALTAR sealed with a Daemon is interesting, as there has always been an occult aspect to the mind control "cult". Guilt is the hardest part for those who, at least in their usual identity, have let themselves be pushed into the depths of compromise. I at least consciously, insofar as I can remember, refused to become a henchman even if that made me a victim, it had to do with my inner nature I guess. Regarding Freud, he was a freak but probably knew more than he let on, I tend to think he was purposely insincere and assisting the Agenda, thus his foray into Tavistock.

Originally posted by pianopraze

You are absolutely correct and I thought this and left this out semi-on-purpose from my post but you filled it right in... very showing that you've been through this or have studied it well. Forgive me if I truly trust no one.

******
This is very dangerous information to be spoken of so freely. A fools game for sure.

Caution and reason in times of danger are what gives power to the criminals. While I certainly don't relish the thought any more than my fellow man, I had to contemplate my death at the hands of kidnappers at age 16. This gives one perspective. It is far different to die now than then, having lived a good bit longer. Also maybe I am a daredevil and reckless from that "training"? What matters is not when you die, but how you live. I chose to die rather than kill as a child, yet survived. Now I choose to speak what I believe to be the truth, whatever the cost, and remain here for the time being. We all have a duty to one another and to humanity which is above our duty to self.


Having had close people involved in the nitty gritty I have also learned that aside from the nastiest of the henchmen, who take pleasure in plotting and destroying, all are victims in this game. What matters is that the game ends, and not to take revenge. People involved must be offered an out. Not a free ticket without consequences, not a chance to repeat their errors and harm others, but a chance to change ways, to repent and become free of the pattern of destruction in which they are themselves trapped. Most disagree with me, but having been so close I think that I happen to understand the fine line which can be crossed. They crossed it the wrong way, which means that at least some of them if not most can cross it again the right way.


GS

Originally posted by filosophia

What do you think about the possibility that if the first released mugshot is an imposter, they already eliminated Loughner and now a plant is in his spot in the court room? This way he can't speak out about his circumstance?

Hi Filosophia,


You may have it figured out. Just like the JFK assassination where a number of different Lee Harvey Oswalds showed up at different times in various places, this may be a case of multiple Jareds.


Regarding what became of Jared there are several possibilities. His flight into the desert with a bag, presumably of basics to flee with, makes me lean towards his having been assassinated briefly before the Giffords shooting. Another possibility is that he was mind controlled and kept in the sidelines. Once the shooter was captured he may have been swapped for him, after some serious shock conditioning treatment refreshers? This way they would use him just like Sirhan Sirhan or Mark David Chapman who each took the rap for a CIA Hit. And if he started remembering they could easily 'suicide' the repentant criminal in his jail cell.


Regardless of what became of Jared, there are apparently several people passing themselves off as him. None of them is a convincing Jared. There are those in the mugshots and among the court drawings there are more yet. I count a first crazy looking one who was photoshopped. This man whose photograph was first released as a mugshot appears at minimum deranged and more probably brainwashed. He is probably, although we can be sure of nothing, the man who was present when Giffords and company were shot - if the shooting actually did take place... He has a very thick neck and is at least ten years older than Jared.


The next person shown was in court drawings has hair and not a totally shaved head. There's no hair lotion known to man which can get hair to grow that quickly almost overnight. This cannot be the same man. Is it the real Jared? He does seem to have a considerably thinner neck than the original scary mugshot, but then again, who doesn't? The artist renderings during the court hearing are at best approximative. It is very hard to identify the man from such quick sketches. However they are good enough to outline discrepancies such as hair length and neck thickness. It is possible that several stooges are used in court or in prison, depending on what they need to do, how close they need to look like Jared or whether they have to communicate with somebody specific. The lawyer is there to prevent any unwanted contact with the person posing as Jared, nobody will need to hear his voice since he has a "mouthpiece" (nickname for a lawyer).

Originally posted by pianopraze

When you look at the first court drawings it showed a man with longer hair than Loughner and a different face, they then released a more Jared looking depiction.

first court drawing

these look more like the first mugshot

Thanks for the pictures. We see that the new pair of Mugshots shows somebody who looks a lot more like Jared, but we cannot be sure that these photos were taken of the person in custody, nor that they were taken at any given date. In any case this person is not the same person shown in the first mugshot. We will be most entitled to be wary of any photos issued officially when we are presented with the pictures of two different men and are told that they are one and the same individual This is a case of gross misrepresentation which is in itself a crime, tantamount to tampering with evidence in a murder trial in addition to the deception perpetrated against the public at large.


GS

reply to post by Getsmart


thanks, you seem to be very knowledgeable when it comes to MKULTRA stuff, it's good to hear your interpretation. You can count on me for being intrigued in this case. My curiosity is peaked and I won't be losing any interest with this. I'll just have to wait it out as the little pieces of half-truths trickle out.

Originally posted by Getsmart

Originally posted by Doomzilla

One of the mods posted a video that proved Jl was the shooter , about 2 weeks ago . I don't know if youve seen it .It was a thread titled "JL is innocent til proven guilty" I think . 'Il try and find it now , I didnt watch it myself at the time so il see if its still there.

EDIT found it .....
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 18-2-2011 by Doomzilla because: (no reason given)

Does video work for you GS , doesnt for me

Hi Doomzilla,

We're entering the Twilight Zone here at ATS where this is in fact the first time that I see a Mod shut down a thread based solely upon his own opinion. I agree with you that the "evidence" he states has been found is tainted, third person hearsay, simply media allegations and without any confirmation of its authenticity.

Originally posted by ADVISOR

Wrong, there is now undeniable, proof beyond a reasonable doubt. He did it and is guilty of murdering a child, among other crimes.

Surveillance camera captures Tucson shooting

edit on 19-1-2011 by ADVISOR because: to fix link and to lock thread

I think it would be likely that other Mods here at ATS if not the founders of the forum would agree that the presumed existence of a video recording does not confirm that it is indeed an authentic one, and if authentic it cannot confirm the identity of the perpetrator without significant image analysis and biometric comparison of the images with the accused.

Evidence provided to close thread = Mainstream Media Disinformation

The link provided shows ZERO images. We only hear a journalist reporting that a video exists. Whatever the journalist affirms cannot be proven unless the video has undergone INDEPENDENT Forensic analysis, something highly unlikely to occur if this was a disguised CIA HIT.

Furthermore, the video provided at that link shows two women who are reported to have given Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation to Judge Roll, but when interviewed they seem cheerful, almost gleaming as if is all fun and games. I have already given First Aid on 2 separate occasions to gunshot victims each shot in the chest near the heart. I cannot imagine for a split second ever acting like they are if interviewed about the events. Maybe because those whom I treated both survived - theirs died therefore they're smirking?!?

Now that thread is closed - in my opinion inappropriately, but the one we are posting in remains for the time being open, as we are apparently still allowed although perhaps not encouraged to continue to investigate this serious event.

GS

edit on 19-2-2011 by Getsmart because: of the utility of posting my own analysis of that video.

BUMP BUMP IDLIKE TO KNOW why the thread was closed too

Hi Doomzilla,

Sorry I was away overloaded with work and not here to post. That thread was closed by decision of either a mod or an admin here. That's their prerogative, as they own this website and its content as well as create their own code of conduct. We can come to our own conclusions, and accordingly adjust our trust and behavior with our hosts.

Regarding Loughner it appears that he has just been charged with 49 counts of accusations. This is despite his being physically different man than the person arrested and first photographed in Tucson. whose photo was first released. We are therefore all witnessing live a complete MISCONDUCT OF JUSTICE and the appropriation of the American Criminal Justice System by Spooks for devious purposes, similarly to the Warren Commission's false conclusions regarding the JFK Assassination.

GS

Sorry i only skimmed through the thread,
But shouldn't a mug shot have a height graph behind him?
Hang on , I will answer my own question.
Yes a mug shot should have ones height in the photo. Of cause it should.

reply to post by Getsmart


Hello Getsmart my friend , hope all is well .

Yes your right this case seems to be heading the direcion of lunacy .
Apparently the autopsies will be released on monday so we shall see what happens .
GS have you seen the documentary " The men who killed kennedy " ?

Originally posted by Doomzilla

Hello Getsmart my friend , hope all is well .

Yes your right this case seems to be heading the direcion of lunacy .
Apparently the autopsies will be released on monday so we shall see what happens .
GS have you seen the documentary " The men who killed kennedy " ?

Hi Doomzilla,


I am carefully viewing that documentary these days, bit by bit while thinking about a lot of factors involved. It is quite revealing. I had a number of years ago done some identity research of the "tramps" and posted it here at ATS in a JKF thread. Can't remember where, I'll have to look it up, but it is revealing. Especially as one of the tramps is the father of the main actor in a major TV series... small world.


I shall also post here my photo comparison from your own thread about Jared Loughner. It might help those who are here and more used to this thread.


REPOST:


It is difficult to dismiss the troubling similarities with the JFK assassination. This is also a good time to verify if we've learned anything from that event, and the way it was covered up by the FBI, the CIA and the Judicial Court system with Mafia and Police Department complicities. The only conclusions if we assess this as having happened is that those who run the country are criminals or that at minimum a faction of criminals have penetrated most government agencies sufficiently deeply and at high enough levels that it is a hard call as to whether there are rogues within the agencies or whether they are de facto "rogue agencies".


To respond to your observation that "Loughner is just Oswald mark 2" I noticed something disturbingly "Oswaldish" about the latest Court Portrait drawn of him this March. So I copied the drawing, gave it the same tilt and placed it right next to the most famous photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald. The result is disturbing.


Lee Harvey Oswald next to Jared Lee Loughner


Feel free to copy this picture and post it elsewhere.


There are, to my mind, only 2 conclusions which I feel comfortable considering to explain this resemblance not so much of physical traits but of the "published image" of a framed criminal. Either Jared is Oswald's secret son with certain traits and behavioral characteristics in common, thus Lee as his middle name, or the same teams who retouched Oswald's mugshot originally to give him that "guilty look" did the same tricks to Jared's court drawing. I find the later hypothesis more likely, given that Jared's sketch had the top of his head chopped, presumably to get us to focus on the facial expression as well as to remove from our view his skull shape which would lessen the 'similarity impact'.


Re: OSWALD MARK II


Here is another comparison using the same Court Artist rendering of Jared LEE Loughner compared to the profile Mugshot of LEE Harvey Oswald.


Loughner in Court next to Oswald: Oswald Mark II ?



While there is very little similarity between the aesthetics of both men, who have significantly different skull shapes and features proportions, Jared Lee Loughner has somehow been "artistically" rendered to EVOKE Lee Harvey Oswald. One might claim that this is not voluntary, and came from an unconscious process or by coincidence. Yet we will also note that the "cropped version" of the same profile drawing in court chops off his hair in several spots so as to minimize the visual differences in skull shape.


Officially released cropped version of the above drawing



In the larger drawing there are the faces of other people in court who are quite conveniently positioned in the field of vision close up to Jared's face, possibly shown this way to optically distract from certain of his specific features which are too different from those of Lee Harvey Oswald?


FWIW


Getsmart

Originally posted by Doomzilla

Hello Getsmart my friend , hope all is well .

Yes your right this case seems to be heading the direcion of lunacy .
Apparently the autopsies will be released on monday so we shall see what happens .
GS have you seen the documentary " The men who killed kennedy " ?

Hi Doomzilla,


It is with great sadness that a number of your ATS friends have learned of your irrevocable banning from our midst, preventing all ATS members from ever learning from your insight or sharing in your knowledge. In mourning, I wish to salute your great thread bringing much energy to the investigation of the Jared Loughner case and the Giffords Shooting.


Doomzilla's Last Stand


]In memory of you here is a post to revitalize this thread. I hope you'll concur that this further manifests the ritual sacrifice aspect of this event to punctuate that of 9/11 which is also clearly a sacrificial rite. This insight was brought forth by members of the doppels board, who are to be commended for their sleuthing.

Nine-year-old Christina Taylor Green will be memorialized with a nine-foot, eleven-inch statue made in part out of a steel beam from the World Trade Center.

A 272-pound beam from the World Trade Center is being trucked to Arizona for the memorial, according to the New York Times' City Room blog. Lei Hennessey-Owen, a Pennsylvania artist who created statues for the World Trade Center site, will use five feet of the beam to shape a statue of an angel that will sit in the fields where Green played softball in Oro Valley, Arizona. "A piece of steel from the Pentagon and a rock from Pennsylvania will also be incorporated into the sculpture," City Room adds.

We will note that Christina was 9 and that the weight of the beam adds up to 11.


The commemorative statue measuring 9'11" is not a statue to Christina Green but to the 9/11 sacrificial ritual. It will not take the form of Christina, but of the Angel of Death which was sated by her sacrifice.


I find it interesting that the Close Encounter with an "other worldly" very large Draco that I crossed paths with, happened to correspond quite well with the great stature of her commemorative statue, which I had estimated at a similar size of at least 11-foot tall. Interestingly that event gave me the distinct impression of a "blood letting" which happens to coincide with ancient Serpent Cult human sacrifices which presumably continue today in the corridors of our Secret Government. For those interested, here's a link to a lengthy "full coverage" post about that sighting in another thread.


LINK to Urban Reptilian Sighting


This makes me wonder if it is only a numerological coincidence, or maybe also the evocation of a larger beast, which they choose to call an Angel which stands over and officiates at such grisly killings, is actually the Draco Prince of this Earth whom they like to call Lucifer, Mephistopheles, Baphomet, Satan.

Mephistopheles: What kind of Angel?

Certain critics have viewed the Faust story as a distortion of Christianity. “Christianity is invoked by parody in the very shape of the play. Susan Snyder points out that it is an “inverted Saint’s life,” complete with the “sinful” early life (a student of divinity), “conversion” (to the Devil), reception into the Church (of Lucifer), “temptation” (by the Good Angel), overcome by help (of the Bad Angel), miracles and beatific visions (of the pagan Helen), and the final reception into the house of the Lord (Lucifer).” However, Mephistophilis does warn Faustus of his regret for losing God and the joys of heaven. He wants Faustus’ soul but also may want to save him from the mistake he made. "Christianity speaks of hell for those who cast it aside. But, says he to Mephistopheles as he delivers to him the agreement to surrender his soul at the end of twenty-four years, 'I think hell’s a fable.' 'Ay,' says Mephistopheles, 'think so still, till experience change thy mind.'

Wikipedia: Mephistopheles

Lucifer aka the Light Bearer



Sacrificial Victim's Family praying Lucifer



Candles symbolizing Masonic columns aka the Twin Towers



WTC Flag lifted by sacrificed 9/11 Firemen



The Light Bearer ?



Creepy outstretched Angels of Death wings



They are Legions...



What does Jared mean in all this ?



GS

reply to post by Getsmart


I mourn DZ's leaving ATS also. When I found out I was extremely upset. Several of my friends were banned in quick succession for questioning certain things.

I hope if he makes it back he will contact us. I miss him greatly.

As to your post.

Very interesting. I think the numerology is spot on. Not sure about lizards, but accept your anecdote at face value for further evaluation.

As to the light bearer, that is one of their favorite routines. Never seems to get old to them.

It all comes down to venus... it makes the pentacle (the star we use on our flag) as it goes through our night sky. It is the morning star, and the evening star. Esoterically it can represent Lucifer and Jesus and Mary (Venus Virgin - think clam shell as in the Shell logo).

Shell and BP are channeling that energy with there logos for that matter. Shell gets the Father (yellow) Son (red) and Virgin (Shell) all in their logo (Don't mistake them for Christians - that is not what they mean with that trinity). I will make a long post sometime explaining all this. One who studies Tarot will start to understand. Tarot is encoded Mysticism. I will show where else this same info is encoded in a future post here on ATS. Once you understand this you will not be able to drive around your town the same.

I could ramble on but most people would not care. But they should - understand this and you understand a lot.

All this shows this was not a random shooting, it was a very controlled sacrifice, and shows who was really behind it... definitely not a lone gunman nutcase - even if he pulled the trigger.

Originally posted by pianopraze

I mourn DZ's leaving ATS also. When I found out I was extremely upset. Several of my friends were banned in quick succession for questioning certain things.

I hope if he makes it back he will contact us. I miss him greatly.

Yup, the Mods really did it in a big way this time, they'd better lighten up on truthseekers or ATS' reputation will turn into distasteful notoriety. So they're driving us to migrate elsewhere, here is Doomzilla's latest thread, not surprisingly about the Giffords Shooting and the Loughner case.


WHY did Brian N Hewlett (LOUGHNER'S teacher) get ARRESTED on Feb 25th and WHERE is he now?


See you there !


Cheers,


GS

reply to post by Getsmart

Actually you will not see me there. I do not want to deal with the drama of that website which I've seen spill over here to ATS it is so great.

I am happy to see DZ/MK is going strong though. That brings my heart cheer.

I hope he decides to come back here at some point, he was becoming a dear friend.

Enjoy

piano

Hi Piano Praze,


I agree that after a moment's trial I came right back to the crib here at ATS. It would be right if he were one day to return! Meanwhile the wheels turn and another member, MemoryShock, in another thread, posted this video which might better explain just how easily a Loughner double was used most likely against his will to perpetrate these crimes, if indeed they were perpetrated as reported?





Getsmart