Is the Loughner Mug Shot Fake?

Here are a further few interesting posts which bring to light questions which are seldom considered, such as the history of Christina who allegedly died an immaculate death by shooting. The truth might be more disturbing.


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"Dover, Del. — The Delaware Senate today passed a resolution making Christina Taylor Green an honorary member of the chamber."and "The young girl's grandfather was Newport native and former Philadelphia Philles manager Dallas Green."

Is this odd or am I making too much of it?

Additionally:

Out of the blue a friend called me tonight. Evidently Dallas Green used to live (or still may live) in a small Southeastern PA town near the Delaware border. Article states he is a Newport, DE native. This little girl went to a small Nazarene church related school prior to moving to AZ. The school was located in the same town as her Grandfather lived. This town is a ver small town, the kind of place a person like Green would live to get away from the spotlight.

My friend attends this Nazarene church and the church/pastor memorialized her on Sunday during the church services. Until Sunday, my friend had no clue that this little girl was affiliated with her church.

She was only 9 and she went to school in PA so it could not have been that long ago. I looked up the church website and it is considered an acadamy providing preschool and kindergarten classes, so she must have been there at the age of 5 at least. Again, if you have money and want to send your child to a private school, I'm not sure why one would have chose this one. There are Montesouri schools in the area, as well as a plethora of prep and private schools that start at the kindergarten level. It just seems odd to me.

Calls into question what the church might be a cover for, as well.

Anyone know why she was moved to AZ from PA?

Her dad is a baseball scout for the Dodgers. Maybe it has to do with that.

Why was the family living in AZ when dad worked as a scout for the L.A. Dodgers?

Click for Dover Post article

There are a few that suggest that Cristina Taylor Green is not the biological child of the family and that she is an abducted child possibly from the east coast some where.... this is a rumor ,but with all the questions it may have merit.


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The little girl might not really be dead. I think she might have gone off to the Monarch program or into training as a "Kelly Girl".

Why are they burying her in Tucson where she has lived for maybe 15 minutes apparantly, and not in the Green family plot up North? Cause you know there is one.

I think this is a good question that no one has attempted to answer. I think most grief-stricken parents would go back to their long-time home area and bypass the circus to bury their child.

Here's some information on Christina's funeral:

- To bring the light and support of the Tucson community, we ask that people dress in white.

Anyone who goes to this funeral is presenting themselves as being DEAD! Stay away for your own sake.

Traditionally, one wears BLACK to a funeral not white. Only the DEAD are to be dressed in white. By dressing in white to a funeral, you are ritually placing yourself in the casket and presenting yourself as the dead. This is a sacrifice!

The funeral date is January 13th. In the traditional Roman Catholic calendar, the 13th of January is the day of the EPIPHANY! ...and the color of the day is WHITE.

Also revealing is that they are not having a WAKE so that the dead can be SEEN prior to the funeral. In the past, there were always questions as to whether or not someone was really dead, so they began wakes as a way for the community, friends, and family to verify it with their own eyes and to say their last goodbyes.

Are any of the supposed dead having wakes or is it just cut to the close-casket funerals?

All those shot had closed casket funerals/memorial services, no open-casket wakes prior to funeral, and private burials in unknown locations.


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Jared Loughner's court assigned lawyer was also the attorney for the alleged perpetrator of the Oklahoma CIty FBI office bombing which killed the kids in a day care center (anyone say "child ritual sacrifice"?) as well as the Unabomber who sent letter bombs.

* A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence suggests that Theodore Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, participated in CIA-sponsored MKULTRA experiments conducted at Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of 1962.

Wikipedia: Project MKULTRA


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You know about the accusations against Roll, right? Crooked...

Napolitano 'Committed Criminal Conspiracy' With Judge John Roll Who Was Slain Today

For original Post click here

Click for Napolitano accusations

This is brilliant on their part. The real target was the judge, not the congress woman. Have you noticed how the MSM is talking about the congress woman but barely mentions the federal judge who was killed?

Judge Roll was very key in blocking further implementation of the "Brady Bill". In addition, he was considered a very constitutional judge, and a principled man. He has blocked more than one attempt at gun grabs.

I've been thinking that he may actually be the real target. That's why we hear nothing about him.


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I used Intellius for my searches and found the Hileman's have lived in Ca., Chicago, Staten Is. and Cleveland, I think, it was.

Intellius updates their files about every 4-6 months.
Since they don't show the Hileman's having lived in Az, yet, then they haven't been there long.

Wilson T. Hileman
related to Susan Annis Hileman

So they must have moved to Tucson about the time that Jared is said to have decided to join the rest of the young peeps his age and create a Myspace and Facebook account and YouTube. Too bad he didn't know how to spell his own name and the original Youtube said Jared Laughner.


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More to come.


GS

Originally posted by Doomzilla

One of the mods posted a video that proved Jl was the shooter , about 2 weeks ago . I don't know if youve seen it .It was a thread titled "JL is innocent til proven guilty" I think . 'Il try and find it now , I didnt watch it myself at the time so il see if its still there.

EDIT found it .....
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 18-2-2011 by Doomzilla because: (no reason given)

Does video work for you GS , doesnt for me

Hi Doomzilla,

We're entering the Twilight Zone here at ATS where this is in fact the first time that I see a Mod shut down a thread based solely upon his own opinion. I agree with you that the "evidence" he states has been found is tainted, third person hearsay, simply media allegations and without any confirmation of its authenticity.

Originally posted by ADVISOR

Wrong, there is now undeniable, proof beyond a reasonable doubt. He did it and is guilty of murdering a child, among other crimes.

Surveillance camera captures Tucson shooting

edit on 19-1-2011 by ADVISOR because: to fix link and to lock thread

I think it would be likely that other Mods here at ATS if not the founders of the forum would agree that the presumed existence of a video recording does not confirm that it is indeed an authentic one, and if authentic it cannot confirm the identity of the perpetrator without significant image analysis and biometric comparison of the images with the accused.

Evidence provided to close thread = Mainstream Media Disinformation

The link provided shows ZERO images. We only hear a journalist reporting that a video exists. Whatever the journalist affirms cannot be proven unless the video has undergone INDEPENDENT Forensic analysis, something highly unlikely to occur if this was a disguised CIA HIT.

Furthermore, the video provided at that link shows two women who are reported to have given Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation to Judge Roll, but when interviewed they seem cheerful, almost gleaming as if is all fun and games. I have already given First Aid on 2 separate occasions to gunshot victims each shot in the chest near the heart. I cannot imagine for a split second ever acting like they are if interviewed about the events. Maybe because those whom I treated both survived - theirs died therefore they're smirking?!?

Now that thread is closed - in my opinion inappropriately, but the one we are posting in remains for the time being open, as we are apparently still allowed although perhaps not encouraged to continue to investigate this serious event.

GS

GetSmart , Im still researching - i Have watched the "eyewitness " accounts and they go into detail but dont describe his appearence at all ! They describe his callous face but NOT skin head and shaved eyebrows ?

If anyone can point out a eyewitness who actually talks about "jareds " physical appearence id appreciate it .

That witness above was sat on jared for 5 mins and was there when cops searched him but he shares nothing about his appearence height hair NOTHING . THE reporters Never asked him either !
Great EYEwitness !

reply to post by Getsmart


I was suprised also that the thread was closed . If we took that opinion every thread would be closed before it started .


March 9th is next court date (I think ? ) Until Evidence is supplied that 100 % confirms and ties the accused to the crime I will continue to research .


The only evidence we have is Virtual , nothing Visual that proves anything.

Get smart Keep up the good work my friend.

Originally posted by starviego

I just got back from witnessing the court proceeding at the federal courthouse here in San Diego, where they were arguing whether to release the mugshot and the results of the search warrants. The judge basically said he had no opinion on release of the mugshot and he would leave it up to the US Marshall's office in Tucson to do that. He did say the mugshot was not especially noteworthy and from the looks of it you could not even tell if it was a mugshot. I thought maybe we would get a glimpse of it, which didn't happen. Though he did hold up a mugshot of the late singer James Brown, after he was arrested.

Hi Starviego,


Thanks for sharing your special insight into the ongoing legal proceedings from your privileged vantage point right inside the courtroom. Your posts should attract researchers the world over, because it is quite different getting a candid fellow discussion board member's impressions in contrast to the censored, processed and distorted accounts from the Mainstream Media.


We all can confirm that without identification plates at the bottom of the pictures, and only a frontal view, the allegedly official mugshot that got this thread started is NOT a genuine law enforcement "Mugshot" such as those invariably used in all criminal proceedings. I find it incredible that according the the San Diego judge the second Mugshot, the one said to be a real one, is likely no more of a genuine Mugshot than the first one. After all, why else would the Judge intentionally let it slip out that it "was not especially noteworthy and from the looks of it you could not even tell if it was a mugshot"?!?

Originally posted by starviego

He said nix to the release of the search warrant results, but the media could reapply for those things on March 9.

It did come out that the FBI has not completed their investigation yet, which contradicted earlier statements that the investigation had been completed.

I did get to sit pretty close to Loughner's attorney Judy Clarke, though why she came all this way for this little minor proceeding is a mystery to me. Maybe she really just wanted to go to the beach; though it is raining right now.

We can only speculate about why he nixed the release of what was found during the searches. Time will tell... maybe. We also learn that the Mainstream News Media was once again propagating LIES given that it appears that officially the FBI have not completed their investigation... unless it was the FBI which was lying, after all the anagram of their name is FIB.


Judy Clarke is apparently closely related to the networks organizing False Flag terror attacks, allegedly defending while more probably RAILROADING the patsies, who may be little more than brainwashed victims groomed to take the fall. She probably was present for two reasons. First she likely charges Mammoth Fees for any split second of her breathing time, secondly because her job wasn't to do what we would expect but to stand by in watch mode, ready to intervene and shut down the proceedings temporarily in case anything was leaking out or going in a way where disclosure of the truth might occur. JMHO.


Getsmart

reply to post by Getsmart



"The link provided shows ZERO images. We only hear a journalist reporting that a video exists"

Even the link title was MODified to appear more conclusive .
I'm sure you as well as I believed we were going to see "surveillance capture" based on that link not a sole persons claim of a video s exsistence !


Hey what a world we live in GS !

This issue deserves a thread of its own no ?
Stopping investigation based on unverifiable accounts ? Wrong .

Originally posted by boondock-saint
and this is the first I've heard of a rifle being found
on the roof. What source did that come from?
Or maybe I just missed it

Hi Boondock-Saint,


There's a lot of info in that other forum so it is taking me some time to relay it here. Upon your request here is the source info about the rifle allegedly found on the Safeway rooftop.


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This case gets more crazy ...what about one of the shooting victims that has just been locked up for death threats to the tea party

And anyone expecting some governmental institution to "investigate" anything should fall back a grade, this thread isn't Conspiracy 101. Those institutions are totally corrupt, let alone their bosses run the planet. Them investigating anything would be like # looking for stink.

From: Click here for the original ARTICLE

The Pima County Sheriff's office told reporters that a 22-year old suspect is in custody. The gunman is allegedly Jared Loughner. The FBI and state and local police are investigating possible other accomplices.

Pima County Sheriff's Deputy Rich Kastigar told reporters that a rifle with an extended magazine was found at the scene of the shooting spree. 

I bet Deputy Kastigar knows the difference between that rifle he reported and a Glock 9mm pistol eh?

I wonder if Rich is still working there?

On January 31, 2011, the Pima County Sheriff's office helicopter crashed killing the pilot, Lorenberger.

The remaining 3 passengers have not been identified 24 hours after the incident. One has been said to be in critical condition, two others in serious.

One would have thought enough time was passed to name these people, considering the person who did die has had notification of next of kin and name announced. But, apparantly not the other three. Curious.

Article: Friends remember Loren Leonberger

Click for video about the Helicopter Accident

“Just about everyone who knew Loenberger knew that he could get out of every kind of jam.”

VERY experienced pilot. Wonder which copter he was flying on Jan. 8th... the red one, the yellow one, the blue one...? Everyone is surprised he ran into a mountain. What did he see, whom did he transport...??? IF he was working that day he knew too much and maybe his passengers too. They have been identified.

Click for article about Crash Survivors

Edwin Nettleton, 58, and Paul Panzica, 41, were released from the hospital - Larry Sayers, 64, remains in serious condition, according to PCSO official Jason Ogan. Nettleton is a consultant with AECOM, an architecture and building company. Panzica and Sayers are county employees with the Information Technology Department, assigned to the Pima County Wireless Integrated Network project.

This accident therefore might be related to all cell phone traffic being interfered with during the Safeway shooting deactivating any phone pictures or video of the event?

There has been no word from the Sheriff, Clarence Dupnik, regarding the incident, so it is not known but can be speculated that he is among the injured. And not that his gag order to speak to the media would extend to this event also.

You can't wish the story about the rifle away. Well they did say they were looking for a 2nd shooter...and then out of no where they said there actually was no 2nd shooter.

It's maybe why they put a gag order on the sheriff's office??? Or could it be because the sheriff kept blaming a political party for it instead of the crazy boy?

Definitely NOT on CNNBCBSABC.

One report I read on 1/8/11 said the rifle was found on the roof of the Safeway but it seems to be down the memory hole now...


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I'll be back to post more info from that outside source.


GS

Originally posted by boondock-saint

well there are 2 notable differences between this
AZ incident and JFK.

The Safeway Store footage is corporate owned.
The Zapruder film was privately owned and later sold.

Privately owned footage can be seized, and is seized, by law enforcement authorities whenever required for crime investigations or judicial proceedings. Corporate owned = Private owned. Therefore there is no legal difference between this footage and the Zapruder film. Unless mistaken, I seriously doubt you are referring to Safeway wanting to retain copyright and charge fees for the viewing if crimes captured by its security cameras?

Originally posted by boondock-saint

The AZ incident included deaths of innocents and children.
JFK incident did not injure children

From this statement I conclude, possibly erroneously, that you find that JFK was not an innocent victim but himself a criminal who had it coming? Given the refusal to show the video we cannot even know for sure if there was a child present at the scene, much less one killed at that specific time and place. Read up on the conflicting or at least very strange testimony of witnesses, family and medical staff about Christine and then reconsider.


At minimum, in my humble opinion, the authorities currently clutching on the the remnants of political power are accustoming the public to trials run like "mock courts of injustice" where no evidence is provided which hasn't been doctored or planted and where all the stage actors - from those present at the scene to those in the courtroom on both the prosecution and the defense side - are stooges.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

And we see how the gov releasing stills get nothing
but bigger conspiracies started. Look at what
happened from the 5 stills released of the Pentagon
on 9/11. They have been the topic of nearly 100
9/11 documentaries.

You are right. If there were no news ever about the Pentagon getting hit on 9/11 we'd be saved all of those tedious and fruitless conspiracy threads, not to mention the waste of film footage in useless documentaries investigating Government Coverups. So you figure they've finally wised up and are putting a lid on everything so that we have no lies to contest - just the Silent Treatment ?!?

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Maybe the authorities are just trying to consider
the lives of the innocent people involved.

That's ironic, I've always noticed how the FBI, the CIA and the Federal Government in general have as their primary concern the wellbeing of the citizens and their psychological equilibrium. Maybe that's why they've funded so many decades of Mind Control experimentation on uninformed helpless victims using the assistance of renowned "Humanists" such as Josef Megele and other similar Nazi experimenters in brainwashing. I'll try to remember your assessment next time I am prevented from learning anything specific about unfolding news: it is to protect the innocent. They might leave their comfort level if people were informed about the world we live in and the truth and reality of current events.


GS

Originally posted by gwynned
Very interesting work finding symbols and numerology. Perhaps it is the work of some Illuminati renegades with a sense of humor. This was not sloppy as someone suggested. It is purposefully ridiculous. We all know the PTB have no sense of humor. Think Dick Cheney. Could any of these people have thought up Jared's videos? Or created that ridiculous mug shot? Why go to that trouble? Why have Giffords subscribed to Loughner's Youtube channel? Those seem like deliberate acts, but to what end? Were we supposed to find these clues? Were they deliberately left to cause us to question the official story? Is somebody just playing with us?

Hi Gwynned,


The first time I learned of the weird numerological obsession and strange unexplained numerical coincidences in dramatic events, I simply found it strange and especially thought it was those investigating who were oddballs giving so much importance to trivial irrelevant details such as dates, times, locations and planetary aspects.


Over the years of examining many unfortunate events I have come to the conclusion that it is not the investigators looking at these things who are oddballs, but the perpetrators who seem to be screwballs.


And this can only be explained by the following consideration: those planning, organizing and perpetrating these events with strange numerical combinations are not "Normal folks". They are apparently infatuated with mystical symbology, occult lore, magick formulas and astrological and numerological ceremonials.


It could be that they are of Talmudic Kabbalistic Magick convictions using occult rites and performing sacrificial rituals according to a strictly encoded protocol which demands certain particular characteristics to be embedded in the events they promote. This is for the time present the only possible interpretation I can offer as to why there are almost invariably strange numbers and symbols associated with provoked human deaths, attesting to their likely motivation as a sacrificial blood ritual.


This could help explain a potential Zionist connection with at least some of these events, given that early Canaanite human sacrifice religions carried over from ancient Babylon were adopted in the Khazar kingdom during the 8th century and extended into Central and Northern Europe and from there into the Royal Dynasties and Illuminati Bloodlines who for the most part still practice such rites, bringing them to dominate the USA in centuries past. The Order of Death also called Skull & Bones is but one emanation of this Zionist movement obeying ritual sacrifice and blood libel. They have also infiltrated Israel, whose population are the first victims possibly on the verge of themselves being sacrificed in forthcoming events.


Regarding whether somebody is "playing with us" this is more the case than most suspect, they have been playing with us for centuries and this is simply becoming increasingly apparent thanks to the Internet and randomly cross referenced discussions at places like here at ATS, where it quickly becomes evident we are being played for fools. However, they are simply conducting business as usual, with only a few extra tweaks and updates to the standard scams. What is new is the broadly shared public response to events which broadens their psychological impact on larger populations, and also that we tend to bring together our insight and intelligence making their lies inconsistencies quickly become blindingly obvious.


This is possibly why uprisings are occurring in many places, as the USA isn't the only place populations are being flagrantly deceived and manipulated like so many heads of cattle. It is also why the Internet was UNPLUGGED in Libya and in Bahrain, as Barack Obama has planned to do in the USA after obtaining the legal authority to do so last June. But until that time we will be increasingly pulling the wool from our eyes, noticing the lies, detecting the falsifications, revealing the conspiracies and investigating the culprits. Whether JUSTICE is at the end of the story remains to explore as a conclusion of our contemporary history.


Getsmart

Originally posted by gwynned

I don't believe they will ever release real footage. Of course, I don't believe there IS any footage, but even if there were, why would they? Except for a few of us who question the official story, no one seems to be the wiser out there.

We will see if they release two other mug shots that the Judge ruled yesterday would not impact a fair trial. I have not seen them yet.

However, if it is a hoax, as I suspect, and nothing ever happened, at some point the Judge will have to reappear, so there will at some point be a revelation. In the meantime, all we can do is try and connect the dots with the information that has been provided.

Hi Gwynned,


Having spent years investigating very difficult cases, I cannot offer a formula for solving them but have become accustomed to living for extended periods of time nurturing doubts, of varying degrees. Educated guesses are all that investigators have to go with, using them to test the facts and then to gather and examine evidence to either confirm or invalidate the theory.


Given what we have learned, or rather "unlearned" as media fabricated or media relayed falsehoods, there is a fifty/fifty chance that there was a shooting or not. Within this rather divided percentage of likelihood, there is an additional spread of probability between different theories of what really did or didn't happen.


A. Nothing happened other than a staged event with blanks and complicit actors part of a planned deception. This is supported by the fact that there is no footage confirming this event, by conflicting witness testimony which is incompatible, by Giffords apparently soon to recover quasi intact and other "miraculous" recoveries among the victims.


B. There was a staged event with an unidentified shooter alleged to be Jared Loughner, but with a sniper on the roof with a rifle effectively killing Judge Roll for political reasons. The others are taken away out of public view, attested as being dead or wooded and kept temporarily in hiding until things cool down or under a new identity.


C. There was a real shooting event, but with a perpetrator who is NOT Jared Loughner, explaining why the videos are not being released, why the mugshots are withheld, why we have no images of him since his alleged arrest, why there was a contrived effort to keep his image out of the press other than a photoshopped fake mugshot.


D. The event was real but chosen as the location for an Anti-Christ...ian ritual sacrifice of a young girl born on the day of another ritual sacrifice, 9/11. Appropriately named CHRISTina meaning little Christ she would have been ritually murdered either during the shooting incident or possibly later once removed from the site, certain members of the hospital having attested to her pristine immaculate undamaged body.


E. The entire shooting is an MK ULTRA Mind Control experiment run on a global scale, testing the public's credulity, our gullibility when nothing is coherent, our response to lies and deception, the potential political fallout by grassroots groups communicating online, TPTB's control of dissident organizations which might protest, while at the same time verifying the grip they have clamped on the American Judicial system with mock trials and railroading of the innocent which might later become increasingly routine.


F. The entire shooting was staged as a media show to distract the public from an ongoing effort to provoke World War III by destabilizing most North African and Middle Eastern countries to spark nuclear attacks in the region.


G. There is a strong connection with the porous border between Mexico and the USA only miles South of the location where the shooting took place. Giffords was the proponent of a law funding reinforced border patrols to prevent the flow of drugs into the USA. The CIA runs that operation to fund its Black Ops as well as numerous other misdeeds, and would not hesitate to take decisive action to terminate her. Judge Roll would be another target for similar reasons. Christina would have been added either because the CIA is still permeated with Nazi occultists involved in 9/11, or possibly to throw investigators onto false leads looking elsewhere than the local border issue.


H. There is a Zionist infiltration of the Republican Party with the former Vice-Presidential Candidate being but one pawn in the mechanism. They targeted with cross-hairs many politicians last year. These didn't pay heed and many got reelected, despite thinly veiled threats to their lives. This would therefore be a CIA run Political Assassination aiming to give an example of what awaits those who oppose their Zionist Agenda.


That's just a start of some of the theories of what might have happened. The most unlikely story being the one promoted in a single mind and lone voice by all the Mainstream News Media and Propagandist Press. Namely that "some lone kid dumped by his girlfriend smoked a reefer and went nuts shooting everything in sight".


GS

Get Smart! You have outlined many theories and as you point out, in the absence of actual evidence, all we can really do is utilize our logical thinking devices and theorize. However, all your theories are based on an assumption that the media is entirely or almost entirely controlled by THEM. That is certainly a logical assumption. But is it true today? Is it possible that there is a real live Mr. V who has taken control of enough of the media that he/she can create media stories out of thin air so to speak. The difference being that in this case, the artist lies to reveal the truth, like in the movie. The hoax revealed for the world to see will demonstrate in real time how the entire world can be convinced to believe a complete fabrication.

I keep harping on this because no one has addressed this assertion directly. The story is much too farcical and humorous to have been created by the PTB. I have to think this is deliberate.

Think different. Perhaps our side is winning.

reply to post by gwynned


Until we're shown proof I won't believe the os just like 9/11 there are too many inconsistencies .
They could be cleared up easily but so far they have chosen not too .

This shooting was not at night in a quiet area , this was at 10 am saturday morning in a busy congested area .
Many people would have seen the gunman .
Yet as GS states , witnesses being examined state conflicting information .
So many questions are unanswered too many things do not make sense .
Imo the media cant be trusted anyway , maybe they arent "directly involved" maybe they just reporting what they think or are told ....
Either way I dont believe we are being told the 100 % truth .

reply to post by Getsmart



"This is brilliant on their part. The real target was the judge, not the congress woman. Have you noticed how the MSM is talking about the congress woman but barely mentions the federal judge who was killed?"
______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________


Yes from the actual day of the shooting onwards . I don't know the us protocol GS but is it normal to reveal her name in the media when she'd been critically injured and it was not 100 % certain she'd survive ?

On the early reports ive seen they mention only congresswoman and the little girl and others unnamed , are these the 2 they want the public to focus on ?

I heard the girls father the day after the attack , like you say odd to talk so soon but I'm also suspicious of the whole issue there

Whats your take on the alleged previous encounter between Loughner and the congresswoman ? - The youtube subscription ?

What if this was a ploy to get a women in the whitehouse ? She was never gonna die ? win the heart of america with the miraculous recovery run for office in 2012 if possible ? She'd be a great advert for mandatory microchips !

There is no attention on the judge because he was killed for a reason - the congresswoman survived for a reason ?

They have in their position 250 witness interviews 45 disks worth of material from "jareds computer " cctv from safeway and other stores witness testimony .who "looked in the gunmans face "
What have we the public seen? Nothing !

Only second hand hearsay .

All the "photos" Ive seen of the congresswoman in "hospital" cant even be proved to be her ! All ive seen is "her"hand and he whole body totally covered by a blanket .

Take their word for this shooting because I reckon thats all their ever going to give ..

My predictions --

They will Tell you He has a confession video (face to video ) _
Jared will not testify verbally but they may use this confession video (which they wont release because they'll say victims and public will find it disturbing )to convict him _
They may as well release a grainy still that reveals little if anything .
Before he receives the dealth penalty he may talk or he may take his life
My longshot bet is that Gabriel will be the 1st female president .

Originally posted by gwynned

You have outlined many theories and as you point out, in the absence of actual evidence, all we can really do is utilize our logical thinking devices and theorize. However, all your theories are based on an assumption that the media is entirely or almost entirely controlled by THEM.

Hi Gwynned,


Anyone who has worked as a journalist would assume this by simply observing their own work environment as well as the numerous implausible reasons for killing their stories, something which used to be routine until they arranged to have such compliant people trained to bend their spines in advance that they engaged in proper self-censorship removing anything remotely resembling real journalism so as to protect their employment.


After all it has been so long since the media was honest, it dates back to small independent printing presses in small towns where dedicated journalists sought to bring the closest thing to the truth as possible to their respected community members. Already 130 years ago the pot stewing public knowledge was rotten and the alphabet soup of the printed press was spoiled, as you shall see below.


For reference, here is what a fellow who was Chief of Staff at the New York Sun and at the New York Times, John Swinton, the man who brought New York City the news from the Civil War during the second half of the 19th Century and considered then the preeminent New York journalist. He was invited by the New York Press Club to a dinner at which he was guest of honor and when someone young and naive proposed a toast to "an independent press". Here is the response he got on that night of 1880:

"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it."

"There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print."

"I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job."

"If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone."

"The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread."

"You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press?"

"We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes."
 
"We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance."

"Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men."
 
"We are intellectual prostitutes."

That certain well-moneyed parties are behind the press and other media is quite obvious, however it is largely alleged that many such Media Moguls such as Ruppert Murdoch and Ted Turner are actually "Bag Men" for certain organizations with their own Agenda which is yet to be established. Assuming this is nothing but a banker's plot is mistaking the conveyor belt for the factory. For whom do they work is what must be ascertained, lest you kill the messenger and foolishly celebrate victory while your enemy, intact, rejoices as your blindness.


We know there are many secret organizations with a cryptic agenda, hermetic knowledge, occult mysticism, ritual obedience, ceremonial symbology and even a strange obsession with ancient traditions of human sacrifice. They have been associated with the mystery religions predating the Christian era, those denounced in the Bible as well as other scriptures as Evil, destructive demonic devil worshiping sects. These groups survive and thrive in the obscurity and today are at the Apex of many of our large institutions and government bodies, running them from the sidelines and in back rooms or ceremonial cellars.


Their obedience is to a criminally insane conception of humanity's destiny. Unless they are in cahoots with aliens called "The Watchers", illustrated by the All-Seeing-Eye in the Illuminati Pyramid Capstone? In that case the situation is even more serious. But whatever they seek to promote, there is ample historical evidence, and even that of unfolding current events, which prove that their agenda distinctly goes against the general interest of the bulk of humanity. Instead they have consistently promoted Dictatorial Rule such as under ancient Roman times, where fascism was maintained by dominating the population. The usual trick of maintaining power by giving them bread and arena games has only been slightly modified to account for changes in technology and greater strivings for freedom of a satiated people. Pacifying their bodies by giving them "bread" has today been extended to wide-scale consumerism, while occupying their minds with "games" have gone from blood and guts gladiator slaughter to sports fanaticism, gory Hollywood productions, satanic rock music, pornography, televised brainwashing, news edutainment, virtual reality and murderous video games as so many pacifiers.


Our current domination goes back to the early Roman times and maybe beyond in the more distant past. This has extended over history into the Black Nobility which penetrates much of European Royalty and also their illegitimate Illuminati bloodline offspring. There are aspects of ritual killings which are apparently "Anti-Christian" showing that the Christian message taking a strong position against satanic sects is a menace to these groups. Apparently Christians are at least ritually treated with aggression, with in the case of the Giffords shooting a young girl born on the date of another ritual killing CHRISTina murdered 119 days after 911. This is criminal due to the murderous ritual sacrifice of innocent victims - if the event was indeed real - or it is yet still criminal by perpetration of a Mass deception at a grand scale, using false testimony, corrupt law enforcement complicities and deceptive media promotion to manipulate the population with fabricated news and faked evidence.

Originally posted by gwynned

That is certainly a logical assumption. But is it true today? Is it possible that there is a real live Mr. V who has taken control of enough of the media that he/she can create media stories out of thin air so to speak. The difference being that in this case, the artist lies to reveal the truth, like in the movie. The hoax revealed for the world to see will demonstrate in real time how the entire world can be convinced to believe a complete fabrication.

I keep harping on this because no one has addressed this assertion directly. The story is much too farcical and humorous to have been created by the PTB. I have to think this is deliberate.

Think different. Perhaps our side is winning.

You are quite correct about this event and its accompanying media coverage as being alarmingly preposterous and implausible, although this doesn't necessarily mean that The Powers That Be aren't behind it, only that we may have inaccurately assessed who The Powers That Be actually are in reality?


From your statement, I understand that you suggest that there may be an ongoing war between the Good Guys, namely humans within our government and military intelligence services, and the Bad Guys who may not be human and would have infiltrated various realms from the Mainstream Media to Black Ops? If this is indeed your premise, thanks for telling us more of what brought you to such a conclusion and how you read our current situation. I am especially interested in your ambiguous statement that "Perhaps our side is winning".


Or did I misinterpret your Mr. V as being related to the television miniseries "V" where an alien species of snake-like beings of reptilian origin was invading Earth and acting as impostors for many key players in human society? Thanks for clarifying.


Getsmart

Originally posted by Doomzilla

Yes from the actual day of the shooting onwards . I don't know the us protocol GS but is it normal to reveal her name in the media when she'd been critically injured and it was not 100 % certain she'd survive ?

On the early reports ive seen they mention only congresswoman and the little girl and others unnamed , are these the 2 they want the public to focus on ?

I heard the girls father the day after the attack , like you say odd to talk so soon but I'm also suspicious of the whole issue there

Whats your take on the alleged previous encounter between Loughner and the congresswoman ? - The youtube subscription ?

Hi Doomzilla,


Please note that many of the items in my recent posts are pulled from other people's statements in the Godlikeproductions forum. I do not endorse these statements, only I am posting them here as "Food for thought" as they do bring up controversial aspects of the case. These are found in my posts between double lines such as this: ==========.


You ask me many questions to which I will venture an opinion, although nothing can be sure. In the USA it is normal and expected to know that a politician was attacked when shot during a public venue. This is basic news reporting and most would be shocked if at least this hadn't been done. Yet many news sources immediately announced that Giffords had been killed. Was she really a target in their "cross-hairs" who got lucky and survived her wound? Or did she die but has been replaced by an impostor to confuse the enemy, after all her head is wrapped in bandages and she can hardly speak so anybody of a similar size and gender could pretend to be her in a hospital bed?


Christina's parents allegedly are OK with Susan Hileman having delivered their daughter to her death and bear no grudge, going so far as to allegedly initiate themselves a call to her husband Wilson Hileman saying she's not to blame. Is that a natural response? The family pictures seen of the Green family are all grossly photoshopped almost as if to test public credulity and gauge just how sloppy they can get while still deceiving public opinion.


It could be a real event but peppered with so much false information as to sidetrack anyone investigating it? She could be real, Christina that is, and have grown up in her family with her 11 year old big brother, by the way their respective ages are 9 11. And the fake pictures and fabricated statements of the parents added to make us all wonder what's up and if she's even real? Regardless of why or how, there is a massive deception going on around the Giffords shooting and we can only be stunned that even at ATS there is almost no interest in this as if it were case closed. All it takes is for the News to echo the same cover story, for the FBI to announce it has proof, for somebody of a similar physique to be produced in a distant court where nobody knows him, and there you have it: CASE CLOSED.


Regarding the links between the Congresswoman and Loughner through her subscription to his YouTube account, this is odd. It is claimed by some that they were also members of the same congregation at the local synagogue. That would give a possibility of direct contact, maybe explaining the subscription. Loughner did obviously have a fledgling political awareness even if he was confused and tended to jump to conclusions. He could have been interested in connecting with somebody in political power who was of the opposing side to the ones running local politics for decades, because although the incumbent, with regards to the political climate of the region Giffords was quite the outsider causing a stir where it bothered a lot of important established plans.


It is also very simple to manipulate pretty much anything on the Internet. Also YouTube was founded by the CIA and therefore they could readily falsify form the inside any data pertaining to user accounts or subscriber registration.


Getsmart

reply to post by Getsmart


Hello GS my friend .

You are right to be concerned _ This may be a case we see no evidence for .
If you look at the hysteria caused by his "mugshot" a lot of people will have made their mind up immediately .
"his " internet postings tied with the mugshot have led to a Case closed scenario

Its probably only people like us that are investigating right now .
GS did your hear about the tuscan " survivor who got ARRESTED recently ?

Originally posted by Doomzilla

What if this was a ploy to get a women in the whitehouse ? She was never gonna die ? win the heart of america with the miraculous recovery run for office in 2012 if possible ? She'd be a great advert for mandatory microchips !

Hi Doomzilla,

A woman in the White House? Even Sarah Palin is a contender, despite her stalking Giffords and putting he into the cross-hairs of a sniper's sight. Could it be that she was targeted as alleged author of this HIT, which may have been staged to make Palin into the henchman and Giffords into the innocent victim, in so doing the Democrats stealing the Republican's lightning? Will Giffords run against Palin in the next elections? After all, we had 2 Bonesmen as candidates, why not 2 female proxies for TPTB? We're bound to elect one of them since we'll be told there are no other REAL candidates running. Only 2 like usual. Isn't it surprising how few people want to run for President, only 2 genuine valid candidates and a whole bunch of ridiculous losers who don't stand a chance. Nice way of organizing our control while faking our participation in the Great American Dictatorship.

Originally posted by Doomzilla

There is no attention on the judge because he was killed for a reason - the congresswoman survived for a reason ?

They have in their position 250 witness interviews 45 disks worth of material from "jareds computer " cctv from safeway and other stores witness testimony .who "looked in the gunmans face "
What have we the public seen? Nothing !

Only second hand hearsay .

All the "photos" Ive seen of the congresswoman in "hospital" cant even be proved to be her ! All ive seen is "her"hand and he whole body totally covered by a blanket .

Take their word for this shooting because I reckon thats all their ever going to give ..

W


That's pretty much the way things stand. Before the Internet and the generalization of investigative technology enabling us to test audio files and images for processing and falsification, they'd not hesitate to use trumped up fake evidence. Today they've switched to resorting to a "No Comment" version of the truth. They know, and they're the professionals, they run agencies and government departments, so we have to trust them because of course everybody knows that the government works for the public good, for certain and without a shadow of a doubt. Nobody ever lied in politics. Nobody ever censored the news. Nobody ever manipulated a court case. Nobody ever conspired to do anything since the beginning of human history. So stop being so paranoid and go back to work without disrupting the natural order of the food chain. You're on the bottom, just get used to it.

Originally posted by Doomzilla

My predictions --

They will Tell you He has a confession video (face to video ) _
Jared will not testify verbally but they may use this confession video (which they wont release because they'll say victims and public will find it disturbing )to convict him _
They may as well release a grainy still that reveals little if anything .
Before he receives the dealth penalty he may talk or he may take his life
My longshot bet is that Gabriel will be the 1st female president .

Here's my take on your predictions:

Jared's testimony will be delivered by the CIA's appointed shill attorney for their mind controlled patsies.
Jared was probably terminated in the Desert, which is why he was fleeing on the morning before the shooting.
If the actor used as a double for Jared is executed or suicided, he'll just be evacuated and then said to have died.
Or to shut him up and tie up any loose ends, they may pretend to have planned that, but will suicide him instead.
Giffords will be a propagandist against Gun Ownership, used either as President or media figure to brainwash us.


No matter how you look at it, this entire event is rife with lies, fabrications, inconsistencies, dirty tricks and smacks of CIA involvement. The identities of numerous actors of the events are linked to CIA Mind Control with Giffords and the Hileman Couple all three from Cornell and Jared denouncing mind control in preceding months. The nine year old victims' parents also have very unnatural reactions to her killing and this also lends credence to mind control in their case. Whatever actually happened TPTB are going to use this for their own purposes, whether to test Mass Mind Control by media subterfuge, to kill a defiant Judge, to shoot a law maker who opposed their drug running, to plant the groundwork for disarming a nation rejecting martial law, to pay homage to their satanic snake god in ritual murder, or to confuse the issues so that we can't really tell what they're up to.


Getsmart

Originally posted by Doomzillast by Getsmart[/url]

You are right to be concerned _ This may be a case we see no evidence for .
If you look at the hysteria caused by his "mugshot" a lot of people will have made their mind up immediately .
"his " internet postings tied with the mugshot have led to a Case closed scenario

Its probably only people like us that are investigating right now .
GS did your hear about the tuscan " survivor who got ARRESTED recently ?

Hi Doomzilla,


This might be the purpose of a staged event, if it wasn't real. The creation of Public Enemy number one to test if the masses are dumbed down enough and sufficiently programmed and brainwashed to simply believe in somebody's guilt on the basis of a faked photo. This is important for controlling the population once martial law is installed in the USA: all you'd need to do is show a picture of somebody with enough visual distortion and the right keywords for everybody to vote for their execution. Maybe they'll even let us trigger the electric chair remotely with our TV remotes?


What awaits us: Freedom Seekers designated as Murderers


Also, I did hear about the shooting victim who, despite his recent gunshot wounds, was arrested and charged by the police. That is yet another case of a miraculous recovery to add to the medical annals, revealing some rather odd behavior which doesn't exactly correspond with the scenario we've been coached about this case. I will post some arguments from that other forum's threads on this very topic.


=======================================================


MORE crazy # in Tucson:

Safeway location: January 15, 2011 – One week ago at 10:10 am on a Saturday morning, chaos, mayhem, violence and death erupted at La Toscana Village across North Oracle Road from Casas Adobes Plaza, north of Tucson, Arizona

James Eric Fuller, a 63-year-old Democratic activist, was arrested after shouting “You’re dead!” at Tucson Tea Party spokesman Trent Humphries, said Pima County Sheriff’s Department spokesman Jason Ogan. Fuller was shot in the knee and back Jan. 8 when a gunman opened fire, killing six and injuring 13, including Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

Fuller, a disabled veteran and former campaign volunteer for Giffords, was charged with making threats, intimidation and disorderly conduct and was involuntarily committed for a psychiatric evaluation, Ogan said.

In an interview with Democracy Now on Thursday, Fuller linked the shooting to conservative leaders associated with the tea party, including Sarah Palin, Fox News commentator Glenn Beck and Nevada Senate candidate Sharron Angle. “It looks like Palin, Beck, Sharron Angle and the rest got their first target,” Fuller said.

Article about Fuller

Article about James Eric Fuller's Arrest


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Early reports had a bystander shooting, they think, at Loughner. Also, really strange, one of the reports said someone tackled Loughner, and after that a woman was standing near Loughner holding a gun and a clip. They assumed it was Loughner's gun.

Latest reports are that Salzgeber the reluctant "hero", stated by The Colonel Badger, who as you may recall stood one foot away from the shooter, and claimed he saw hit him with a folding chair. Salzgeber, now allows as how, he never hit the shooter with a folding chair, but pinned him from behind. 

Zamudio who ran onto the scene from Walgreen, came upon Salzgeber waving a gun around and talking about shooting, takes the gun away from Salzgeber apparantly, when he is told that guy is not the shooter.

All the eyewitnesses stories are contradicted by each other.

The new video shows the shooter mostly out of frame, so we are told, except for the shooting of the Judge and Giffords.

Again, where the hell is this "video"?


=======================================================


Wounded people of interest:

Bill D. Badger, 74, a retired colonel of the Army National Guard whose head was grazed by a bullet, moments before subduing the suspect.

James Eric Fuller, 63, a military veteran and retired limousine driver, hit in the left knee and grazed in the back by bullet fragments.

Randy Gardner, 60, mental health counselor, shot in the foot.

Susan Annis Hileman, 58, shot in the leg, hip, abdomen and chest while accompanying Christina-Taylor Green.

George Morris, a retired Marine and former airline pilot, shot twice; his wife Dorothy died in the attack.

Kenneth Veeder, 75, a retired Vietnam veteran of the Army Airborne Infantry; grazed in the leg by a bullet.

2 mental health workers and 4 ex-military in the wounded list.

Haven't you noticed MOST people are military or ex-military as soon as you look them up on the wounded, list.

I've never heard it mentioned in the media, but, Joe Zamudio, says things like "collateral damage" referring to the wounded and says "sir" a lot. Military posture and haircut.

I also noted on his original interview that day he was dressed in a hoodie and could have passed for the description of the shooter who went running towards Walgreen.

Zamudio, ran from Walgreens after going in for smokes. I don't know anyone who buys only cigarettes from a drug store. It just isn't done.

So he enters (re-enters?) the scene as a guy who will be hailed as the first "hero" and has a concealed weapon.


=======================================================


Reasons for killing Judge Roll:

Article: Brady Bill Declared Unconstitutional by District Court in Arizona

"I have met thousands of concerned patriotic Americans, and one things has remained constant," Sheriff Richard Mack of Graham County, Arizona noted, "the people of this great country are afraid! Afraid of big government, afraid of losing their lands and homes to ruthless tax collectors, afraid of losing their children to bureaucrats who disapprove of spanking, and most of all, afraid of having their God-given rights and freedoms trampled by the very servants charged with protecting them."

He filed a lawsuit against the federal government in the United States District Court for the District of Arizona in which he challenged the constitutionality of the Brady Bill gun control act. Judge John Roll of Tucson agreed. Below is Judge Roll's decision. This issue will be considered by the U.S. Supreme Court in the fall term. Passed by Congress and signed by President Clinton in 1993, the Brady Act imposes a five-day waiting period on handgun purchasers. It also requires local law enforcement officials to check prospective buyers' backgrounds to determine whether they are forbidden to own guns for various reasons, such as being convicted felons, mental illness or subject to domestic violence restraining orders.

The lower court has declared the Brady Bill unconstitutional. That decision follows:

Sheriff Richard Mack, Plaintiff vs. United States of America, Defendant. No. CV 94-113-TUC-JMR. Appearing for the Plaintiff: David T. Hardy, Tucson, AZ; Stephen M. Halbrook, Fairfax, VA. Appearing for the Defendant: Pamela Eppli, Dep't of Justice, Washington, D.C.; Donald Overall, Ass't U.S. Att'y, Tucson, AZ..


=======================================================


One thing that hasn’t been discussed is how this whole event was just thrown together at the last minute. This seems strange but the first press release that mentioned this event was issued to the public on the 7th.....as in 24hrs before the event. 

First Announcement of Giffords' "Congress on Your Corner" made on January 7th

I’m pretty active in politics and this is beyond strange. Seems like an event like this would be announced a week or two prior....not 24 hours before. This brings up the question of why you would do this. Would it be done to keep people away but that is kinda counter productive to the reason why a politician would hold such of an event. To me this is the final nail in the conspiracy coffin. 

I mean if the shooter planned this attack how did he know the date if the event was announced at the same time he was running around the desert and being pulled over for running red lights?


=======================================================


Those were some more additional controversial assessments of the Giffords shooting which might be helpful leads in investigating, indirectly provided by people posting in the Godlikeproductions forum. I will add more later.


Getsmart

I mean if the shooter planned this attack how did he know the date if the event was announced at the same time he was running around the desert and being pulled over for running red lights?


////

Exactly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He didn't know which backs up the theory that he wasn't even present at the shooting ! __

Is the whole internet evidence a way of linking JL to GC ?
The internet postings plus "mugshot" = Stereotypical "crazy" killer= case closed .