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Is the Loughner Mug Shot Fake?

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posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Here is another post relaying the analysis from the "other forum".

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The AP reports on the scene paramedics encountered upon responding to last weekend's massacre:

"Veteran paramedic Tony Compagno stepped off Engine 30 and into hell: Panicked people rushed his crew, trying to pull them toward the injured, while three men desperately gave chest compressions to a 9-year-old girl.
Others cried out "Giffords! Giffords!" and pointed to a woman lying unconscious with a gunshot wound to the head. Several other bodies were already covered with sheets."

"Compagno and other paramedics on the first three engine trucks to respond to the mass shooting at Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' Jan. 8 meet-and-greet event recounted Saturday the scene that unfolded a week earlier as they rushed to count and triage the victims."

WHERE DID THE SHEETS COME FROM? they are at a safeway not a bed bath and beyond for sh*t's sake! 

First paramedics on the scene and the bodies are already covered with sheets?

I find it very strange, and it's certainly enough to raise the question of whether or not there was more than one shooter. What I'd like to know is, are all those wounds consistent with a shot fired by the alleged gunman, in terms of the direction in which they would have been fired.

Does anyone have a list of the actual amount of shots fired. Seems like with multiple victims being shot more than once, there was a lot of shooting going on. I'm not saying it ain't possible to get off that many shots but the pure volume is large and may point to another shooter (sniper). I seem to remember an early rumor that a rifle was found nearby? Can't confirm it but it seems plausible. I came across an article that mentions details two additional bullets found in Safeway. So in addition to the victims there are at least two more rounds that have been recovered. If the clip/magazine held 30/31 rounds, have all rounds been accounted for?

"Among the evidence collected by the FBI is the video surveillance system at the Safeway where the Jan. 8 attack took place, along with a store window, tiles and pieces of the wall. Store employees said two bullets crashed through the window, one landing in a pack of 7-Up soda. "

Here's the link:

Link to Washinton Post article

First off there was a poster who started the thread called "Something is Bothering me about the Tucson Case". This poster claimed to know someone injured. Never elaborated on it. At one time it came out that she said there were 3 clips ( her quote), he dropped the second and Maisch pulled out the third. I asked why she would say that it hadn't been reported about there being a third clip in the media. At this point CNN was reporting there were 4 clips found: 2 20rounds and 2 15 rounds. This was before the black bag was discovered. Worth a review. And maybe feedback here.

Now the media has forgotten this apparently and has settled on 31 round magazine or clip or whatever.

There has been a change in the amount of times different victims were supposedly shot. I thought at first it was because it seemed even more of a stretch in their claims for Susan Hileman to have been shot 4 times. That is more than any other "victim". I am wondering now if it wasn't to try to stay within a certain number of bullets to account for the zeroing in on one "shooter".

From: Link to Radio Podhoster

Mel Fabregas was close to the scene of the crime when it took place. Here are a few of the points that Mel made in his radio interview the week later..

Giffords was shot from behind.

Anyone at the scene was detained for 5 hours in a cordoned off area.

He was unable to get in and wife and friend were unable to get out til 3PM.

It's always handy to be in control of the crime scene when you're the criminal.

From: Link to Arizona Shootings Video


Jared Loughner walks into the frame clutching his gun close to his right side. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is standing by a wall, ready to greet visitors at her first "Congress on Your Corner" event of the year. The video shows, methodically, Loughner approach Giffords, raise the pistol -- a Glock with a once-illegal high capacity magazine -- and shoot the Congresswoman above the eyebrow from a distance of two to three feet. Then Loughner turns the gun on the small crowd of people near Giffords.

Disturbing new details of the Tuscon shootings emerged late Tuesday as investigators publicly described the surveillance camera footage that captured the morning's tragic events. Richard Kastigar, the investigative and operational bureau chief of the Pima County Sheriff's Department, spoke to the press about the footage.

One of the more visceral details of the account involves the late Judge John M. Roll who died while apparently saving the life of Ronald Barber, a Giffords staffer. After Loughner shot Barber, Judge Roll grabs the injured man and attempts to guide him to safety while shielding Barber with his own body.

In the New York Times' report, Mr. Kastigar desribes the event:

[The judge was] intentionally trying to help Mr. Barber. It’s very clear to me the judge was thinking of his fellow human more than himself… He pushes Mr. Barber with his right hand and guides him with his left hand. The judge was on top of him and is covering up Mr. Barber, literally lying on top of him, and his back was exposed.

The Los Angeles Times, reports that the footage leaves little doubt about what transpired that day.

It's so clear, you can even tell the sequence of who got shot when and where. And it's not the grainy kind of typical fast-food or mini-mart robbery tape. It is so clear it leaves no issue about who was doing the shooting.

More details will emerge in the coming days as investigators pore over the nearly two dozen videos from the Safeway surveillance cameras. (The Washington Post has already constructed an interactive graphic showing the moment-to-moment details.)

In the meantime, it's yet to be determined whether the footage will be shown to the jury during Loughner's trial. Even told through several sources, the details are troubling and difficult to process.

What does that even mean? It sounds like what they're saying is even with someone TELLING you what you are seeing, it is hard to process the two.

Why would this be special video and not typical?
If most robbery video looks about the same quality wise, why is this different?

Juries all over the country have to put up with "difficult" videos to watch. If they're lucky, a smoking gun. Why would this be any different?

Can't show what doesn't exist!

Regarding the shooting video - what reason is there NOT to show it to the JURY??? How can anyone really believe this BS any longer?

I still haven't had time to really sit down and search for videos (FOX News) that show cars lacking License Plates...this weekend should afford more time


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Re: Giffords

The guy who supposedly saved her life said she was conscious the whole time, that he sat her up and held her so she didn't gargle to death on her own blood.

Lies are flying all over the place.

Can anyone confirm that head trauma other than in the nasal region would cause someone to swallow/choke on their own blood?

It doesn't make sense to me if she got shot in the head anywhere above the eye line she would be swallowing blood.


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If you examine the following video you should pay special attention to the body language. When they are making an affirmative statement and repeatedly shaking their head sideways in rapid motion this means they're lying. If they close their eyes rapidly multiple times, it is to hide their eyes while lying. Saying something negative but rocking their head up and down means they're lying. These are quite a bunch of liars.



Seriously, this whole thing makes me feel uneasy. Something is off with everything especially concerning this girl. I know no one really wants to talk about it, because it is in bad taste. But the photos of this girl and her family are so photoshopped in that video. I wonder what is really going on.

The woman is melodramatic, plus her story can't really be true, she says all she saw was carnage, 19 people shot point black, she infers they all died, and then she says the victims were helping each other, and it was SO moving to see the victims helping each other. Made no sense.

WAY over the top melodramatic, it all seems rehearsed and acted.

What are the odds of a very prominent doctor in Tuscon and his wife who is a nurse to just be shopping at Safeway when these shooting take place? They were selected to be part of the drill.

Their just "happened" to be an emergency room doctor there, and a triage trained aide their too, how convenient.......

Check out "Dr. David Bowman: Heroic Things Done By Normal People"

Dr. Steven Rayle, after 18 years experience as an emergency room doc, opted to grab hold of "the shooter" rather than tend to the injured. But what with "some (unnamed) guy hitting him with a chair,( the new news), and a 61 year old lady standing next to him who just reaches over and pulls the magazine out of his gun, and Colonel Badger, who had him in a choke hold, and the military acting/sounding Zamudio guy who ran over from the Walgreen's.

Looks like the others would have had things well in hand enough that Rayle would have in real life, helped the victims first.

He came along so that Maisch could tend to the wounded?? Weird circumstances they want us to believe.

Dr. Bowman's nurse wife saying something like the girl was beautiful, didn't have a mark on her. Cr-e-e-e-py.
And now this nurse's comment is the girl was in pristine condition and she couldn't see some chest wound on the girl?

From: Tucson Victim Bay Area Native Talks About Shooting

How very odd also, that Suzi Hileman describes Christina Taylor Green as being "undamaged".

I believe Nancy Nurse Bowman wife of Dr. David Bowman, also made a point of saying there was not a mark on her!!

Unblemished and Undamaged. Sounds to me that they needed a donor.

There is no way the choice of words was a coincidence. I believe they are informing/assuring important insiders that Christina was in perfect "beautiful" condition for the sacrifice ritual held during her "funeral" January 13.

During the Bowman interview nurse Nancy Bowman describes Christina's condition as she gestures, running her hand down her chest, "She was beautiful. Not a mark it didn't seem on her". (1:25 min. mark)



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Then we have the more recent Suzi Hileman interview Susan describes Christina's condition - "She was beautiful. She was undamaged". (3:50 min. mark)

LINK

I agree with all of you - this interview with Susan Hileman was the creepiest and phoniest yet. Even the interviewer didn't seem to believe her (crossed arms, skeptical look on his face).

It's a small point, I know. But, when you watch it you'll notice the dubiously injured SH nearly jump out of her seat screeching, and then "BAM". Afterward she and CG are on the ground, she bleeding and wounded apparently, CG "undamaged".

Well, it would seem to me, to be believable she would have heard quite a few "BAMs" as they were reported near the end of the line, before falling wounded. In her getting lost in her tale she seems to forget for a moment that she is not the center of the story.

Though shot in the chest, and in her gut, with a hip shattered and a thigh possibly hit, she is screaming, "Don't you die on me!!" "Don't you leave me girlfriend!!"

Then I watched the video with Mrs Hileman. Her switches between happy and grief. It never comes through in her eyes. Even the strongest of person (look at military men) when they have that overwhelming image of a little girl getting shot and dying before your very eyes..... wouldn't have a comeback like this. Brain doesn't function that way. Body and mind operate together. Mind steers and the body responds. If the woman had that image ingrained in her memory her choice of words would be much much stronger where it concerns the shooter. But she got as far as: "he who should be slapped". The laughing and the twitch then the crying. Further in the interview I thought I saw a woman who was relieved of something.. Her body moves, gestures etc looked like at her age no less, her body recouped like that of a 16 year old quick and fast. Trauma of mind. Wow how would I feel if I had seen this all happening in front of my eyes. I wouldn't dare to go out face peeps after being shot at multiple times out of the blue. What are the experiences of victims in similar situations? Really fake is all I can say. 

And then lastly the remark about Christina being undamaged where the father says something about extreme damage being found it seems that he is no longer talking about the shot wounds people! Going to check if I can find the video since the YouTube video is not available in my country. But I think the father isn't talking about the shot wound and that the autopsy report might show "damage" of other form. The girl was with this woman and god knows who else before arriving at that scene!


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And the Hileman woman is shot in the chest, abdomen, hip, and leg, but she is not in shock or unconscious, nope, she is dialing her husband, and handing the phone over.

OMG !!!!! She Is So Bizarre, creepy, spooky....very controlling and assertive sounding 

To me she's the prototype feminazi that took over American schools. SCARY

We lost a friend two weeks ago. I had a girlfriend,

Total BIZZARE statement. That is bizarre and creepy as hell.

SH's arrogance and overbearing manner are front and center in that Brian Williams interview. Really, what child would be attracted to THAT? In fact, she was so hideous that I found myself picturing her (and her husband) as members of the satanic coven in "Rosemary's Baby." 

It was really hard for me to find the interview with SH, and what's more frustrating is the fact that the very revealing interviews with Christina's parents seem to be "no longer available" wherever you look. The only thing I could still access was an audio interview with her mother, which I suppose is "safe" to remain out there. One must see the video, the blank expressions on their faces and the monotone, uncaring voices to appreciate what we're talking about. I guess someone found that they were just too embarrassing to remain publicly accessible. 

Anyone who watched the interview with Susan Hileman can readily see that she is a high strung woman with eccentric movements and speech. It was already a highly unlikely scenario; a 9 year old girl developing such a strong friendship with a 59 year old biologically unrelated female. Now that we've been given a taste of SH's personality, we can state with certainty that their relationship was not unlikely- it was impossible. 

No loving parents would permit such a woman, with her wild, animated gestures and perverted phraseology (referring to Christina as her "girlfriend"), to spend time alone with their little girl. Just as certainly, no normal 9 year old girl would WANT to spend time with such a bizarre 59 year old lady. SH was not her grandmother, or aunt, or even a cousin. She was just a "neighbor" (if she really was that). 

When we factor in the emotionless expressions on the faces of her parents, just one day after losing their little girl so suddenly and cruelly, it becomes even less possible to believe that any of this is real. If Christina even existed, those dry-eyed people agreeing to an interview while their daughter's body was still warm could not possibly be her real parents. 

Children rarely develop an intense interest in an "adult" area like politics, but if they do it's because of the influence of one or both parents. There is no indication that the Greens were involved or interested in politics; if they'd had the slightest interest, obviously one or both parents would have naturally wanted to see Giffords in person as well. If they had no desire to see Giffords, because they didn't care about politics, it is difficult to understand how their little daughter developed such a passion for it, to the extent that she was happy to be taken to such an event (which most kids her age would think to be utterly boring), by this very unappealing and frightening 59 year old "neighbor" or "girlfriend."

Agree also as to the strangeness of SH and the improbability of her being a mentor/girlfriend (ick) to the child. I checked out SH's blog, the Ashleigh Burrows blog, and clicked on the family/friend link, the cast of characters link, everyone has a sort of pseudonym, but still identifiable somewhat. None at all even remotely resembled her new BFF, the Green girl. Did anyone else find it? I couldn't stomach the whole thing, her style irks me, but you would think that if they were so close, she would be mentioned, at least her parents. Maybe under the Tucson section, but I couldn't find a word on her neighbors of 9 year old BFF.


=================================================================


A Susan Hileman blog commenter wrote (on the "Welcome to My World" post):

"Never doubt for one second that Christina didn't have a chance to reach her potential here; on the contrary, she did more to impact the world in her short life, and death, than many of us will in our entire lives! God sent her to this earth with a specific mission and a purpose, and she carried it out. In the way of Jesus, she was sent here to shine and to die, that others might learn to live in love and compassion for one another. The rhetoric of hundreds of thousands of Americans softened as a direct result of the shooting incident, and that was meant to happen!"

The latest blog post contains the nearly-unbelievable (yet utterly in-character):


"A/B (Susan Hileman): No, that's why we're talking now. Do you remember the little girl who was with us at Thanksgiving? (I talked through the pause, since of course she didn't remember Christina.... "do you remember" is a trope I can't get past) Well, 2 weeks ago I took her to Safeway to meet our Congresswoman who was having a meet-and-greet. We were waiting in line and some fool decided to settle his grievances with her by spraying gunfire and I got shot in the ass.

G'ma: (Laughs. A lot.) I'm sorry, sweetheart. I don't mean to laugh. But that's a funny place to get shot."

The people writing this script are not human as you or I define the term.

Who the hell is she addressing this missive to, her friend from Mars? And she mentions she was shot in the ass, but doesn't mention her chest and stomach. Interesting.
She is really having a hard time staying on script.

Does she even mention how her little friend was supposedly shot?

SH surely was not. By her own statements and others we can assume this child was not either. Nor any of the people who were not even accorded obituary columns in their newspapers.

It is the most far-fetched story one and all, beginning to end. And I have NEVER heard a single witness mention the judge at all. No one has ever stated the nature of HIS wound. Everybody else's, we know, but I don't remember reading about Roll's.

The only vindication of all in Tucson is to discover the real perps in the shadows... and the real motives... and distinguish between those who were intended victim(s) and those who were collateral damage.


==========================================================


To conclude I will share my own thoughts about a seldom analyzed aspect of this case. GS


With respect to the college 'career' of the purported shooter, have you actually seen the math professor he supposedly scared to death in interviews? You can clearly tell he's full of it and that there's something seriously wrong with him. Here's just one of the interviews. And check out the classmate - is this a reliable witness?




This math teacher references another student Linda Sorenson who had previously been involved with Mental Institutions. The journalst mentions that she was working in a Psychiatric Institution and “felt menaced. Which institutions must be clarified given the Cornell Human Ecology Mind Control aspect of this shooting. Linda Sorenson is quoted by another source as having stated the following:


In another class, Loughner's sudden outbursts made Linda Sorenson so uncomfortable she emailed one friend:


"He is one of those whose picture you see on the news, after he has come into class with an automatic weapon. He just made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. He frightened me,” said Sorenson.


Who is Loughner Those Who Knew Him Speak


There may be no relation but there is a Linda Sorenson who was Victim Service Coordinator for prisoners at the Sixth Judicial District of the State of Iowa's Department of Corrections.


Source: VIC and Evidence Based Practices


If this is the same person it would be statistically unlikely that she would be in the same class as a person about to commit a mass shooting.




Here is another interview with the weirdo Math teacher. He is given his interview at the University Medical Center where the victims were being treated, which is in itself bizarre. We can wonder if Linda Sorenson is the same person as whom he describes here as “There was even “One Lady” who sat in the back of the classroom and was very scared for her life”.


However, to a teacher a student is a student not "one lady". They wouldn't refer to them as "one lady" or as "one man" unless they were characteristically very different from their ordinary students or unless he is reciting planted disinfo.


At the end of the interview he says that he was contacted by Linda and will be giving her a call to see how she is doing, apparently giving her special treatment not accorded to the other students in his class he has no intention of contacting.


He also gives false information: if you read the actual Pima Community College Police Incident Report upon his reporting the Mayhem Fest, on the quiz it was ascertained by the college that it was in reference to an upcoming music festival by this name and not, as he says in this interview, a warning of an impending attack.


He then mentions that there was a campus police officer who was present in the class when Jared was there, allegedly to make sure Jared wouldn't do anything. This does sound very hard to believe as it couldn't even remotely be a normal way of exercising police duties on a college campus. This raises a red flag about lies and manipulation within the Pima Community College itself.


If we consider that maybe Linda Sorenson was a “plant”, given her role in Jared's trumped up school history,. we can ask ourselves if she is in any way related to Nancee Sorenson who is Dean at Pima?


LINK: Dean Nancy Sorenson


In this report we are also expected to believe a most credible witness, one wearing purple hair and telling us Jared was weird. It appears that maybe Jared was the only normal guy there, and got framed for the shootings.


GS




posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


I think theres 3 options -

1) Jared did it "lone wolf " style .

2) Jared was under mk

3 Jared wasnt even there , or if he was he was framed .

Right now i think 3 , is the most likely then 2 .



Until they show some evidence for 1 I won't believe it .

Edit
To Getsmart reading your latest post now
edit on 22-2-2011 by Doomzilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by Getsmart
 


There is not one witness or character witness in this JL case I don't think is an actor .

Its funny how many people thought jared was capable of this . The typical crazy 22 yo mass murderer .

I'm afraid at this point , theres as many holes in this event as 9/11 .

I wait for march 9 th with interest



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Doomzilla
There is not one witness or character witness in this JL case I don't think is an actor .

Its funny how many people thought jared was capable of this . The typical crazy 22 yo mass murderer .

I'm afraid at this point , theres as many holes in this event as 9/11 .

I wait for march 9 th with interest


Hi Doomzilla,


If they're almost all play acting, then maybe even Jared was too? What do we really know about him? Was he really born where and when it is said? The CIA is in the business of creating false identities, prior to his political career Obama is said to have had over a hundred addresses and over thirty social security numbers. Nobody at Columbia, either students or faculty, remembers ever having seen him. Just a case in point how customary it is for that agency to create fake identities.


I think I'm finally starting to believe like you that maybe the whole entire event was fabricated and most of the people involved were operatives. This is not an easy conclusion to come up with because it presupposes a number of things which are not simple to accept. That means that either the CIA has many operatives stationed regularly in various activities throughout the USA when their official mandate is foreign intelligence and not operations on us soil, the alternative being that this event was scheduled quite some time in advance, with people stationed on location and trained to assume a role during an orchestrated media event.


Also this means we cannot know why they would want to do such a thing. Is it part of a Mass Mind Control experiment? Were they testing the media's complacency and the public's gullibility? Was it to verify that no glitches would occur when generalizing such fake accusations for alleged crimes from media reporting to law enforcement all the way through to the judicial process? Is such a facsimile of Justice what awaits us in their New World Order? This is a question worth asking, as they disarm the citizens and move them into a police state.


GS



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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DZ:

A MK-victim is groomed from birth, often the trauma starting before birth in-eutero. They are loved bombed until 18 months then tortured horrendously and all pleasure/pain etc is reversed. They live in a nightmare constantly-shifting fantasy world where nothing is consistent and taught to impose their will upon reality. This then progresses to training per aptitude of the individual including psychic and very esoteric techniques that have been know in these secret societies since ancient egypt and beyond. This is not new, just highly refined technology.

By the time they are pre-teens they are killers of an order of magnitude beyond mosts imagination. Death is a constant reality and thousands are eliminated brutally in the training. Such a simple mission as was carried out by Jared would be a mere walk in the park.

I think if he was a MK-victim he was a one time use throw-away... or they used a real MK-victim to perform it and framed Jared as has been suggested here. That he was aware of his mind control before age 30 indicates he was either not a full MK-victim or a reject from the program for disposable use.

GM:

I am assure your aware of this information from other posts but I will throw it out in response to your post.

Thousands upon thousands of children are funneled into the MK-ULTRA program through the CIA, cults, and kidnappings. One of the more recent sources I've come across is in connection with Julian Assange. He was part of the Hamilton-Byrne cult in Australia which funneled thousands of blue-eyed blond-hairied children around the world.


Thousands of such children were 'drafted' into the program - kidnapped - and sent to to remote hospital/academy locations for mind control programming. There were over 30 of these facilities throughout Europe, which processed as many as 30,000 new births.
link

This was an off-shoot of the German Lebensborn and used many of the techniques of MK-ULTRA. The children were brainwashed tortured and drugged until they willingly accepted new identities. They accepted Hamilton-Byrne as their mother and their true mothers were just "aunties"... here is an excerpt:

excerpt

I was absolutely terrified of the Aunties a lot of the time when we were young and so were the others. I remember one morning we were downstairs on the concrete doing exercises supervised by Aunty Helen, when Trish called down saying that she wanted to see David K. She probably wanted to give him a belting because he'd wet his bed which he did every night. But this morning David was so terrified when he heard her calling his name that he simply stood, rooted to the spot, and just lost control of his bowels. We all watched in horrified fascination and anticipation of what terrible trouble he would be in now, as pieces of # dropped out of his pants and onto the concrete. Trish, very annoyed that he hadn't jumped to it, and interpreting his action as a new defiance, dragged him upstairs and gave him an even bigger belting than usual.

We were punished for not closing the lounge room door, for dirtying our smocks, for not practising our piano pieces in the right order, for untidy hand-writing, for not putting our shoes on fast enough, making a mess, talking when we were not supposed to, using forbidden words ('hate' was a word that was forbidden). It didn't have to be much: make your bed wrongly, look at one of the Aunties with what was called 'dumb insolence' (quite what that was I never found out although I always wanted to ask- but that would have been insolent in itself), speak during hatha or lights out, or a million other little things that infringed either the written laws, or an unwritten expectation of the place that children had in the scheme of things.

Megan Dawes once missed meals for a day because she was caught wearing odd socks. We weren't even allowed to go to the toilet until the designated recess time and so of course kids would wet their pants and be belted for that. One time we had a baby called Madeleine staying with us for a few weeks. She was locked in a cot all day with the sides up. She had not reached the walking stage and so couldn't get out of the cot and get to the toilet. However that didn't stop the Aunties. She still got belted when she wet or dirtied her nappy. I remember Trish ordering me to bathe Madeleine in a basin after she had soiled herself. The water had to be icy cold as a punishment and Trish smacked her after I bathed her. She was screaming and I had difficulty holding her still in the cold water.

We were often punished for rocking. We used to rock ourselves to sleep at night because we felt so miserable, sitting up on our haunches and swaying to and fro, or just rocking our head from side to side.. Often after a belting we would call out 'Mummy, Daddy' as we rocked to and fro, calling out to a Mummy and Daddy who were not there and did not care. When we were younger a few of us, myself included used to headbang as we rocked: it was a way of seeking comfort. If we were caught, we were punished with another belting, or being put outside on the concrete for the remainder of the night, or getting cold water tipped over us. Rocking was considered to be bad because , even when we were tiny children it was interpreted as a form of sexual gratification.

If we transgressed by word thought or deed any one of the thousands of petty little rules that governed our lives we were in trouble. There were so many rules that it was impossible to keep them all and also so many unfair reasons for punishment. Even if we tried our best we still couldn't keep out of trouble
link.

This is just a new item i've found. The CIA has been using cults since the 50's to breed children for the program and has been repeatedly caught in child slave trafficking. The Conspiracy of Silence History Channel documentary talks about some of this.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


Praze , you've seen the video where you hear jareds voice ? the only one .

Based on that do you think he was mk ? Its hard to tell for me he soiunds crazy but not stupid . Like rainman for example .

I dont believe (unless it is a conspiracy) that he could go through the events he did without being diagnosed as mentally unstable .
Many many people who "knew " him say he seemed in a trance , delirious and a dangerous kid who might bring a gun into school .

To say this case has got me thinking is an understatement .



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by Doomzilla
 


I saw the one of him walking around his college and all the ones that were on his website.

He seems more like a 1 time use assassin with poor programming than a lifelong mk asset.

I hope ths case gets a lot of people wondering and questioning.

Here are two good books on the subject:
Book 1
Book 2

Foia has released 20,000 documents: you can view here.

I made a few video playlists you can see here: link.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 06:58 PM
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Hi Piano Praze,


I will reply with comments in yellow based on at least one instance of the way it used to be done. Things have probably changed since then. GS



Originally posted by pianopraze
DZ:

A MK-victim is groomed from birth, often the trauma starting before birth in-eutero. They are loved bombed until 18 months then tortured horrendously and all pleasure/pain etc is reversed.

Didn't get the love bombing which must be a recent refinement? Torture did start at about that age though. It is par for the course and becomes almost routine, expected, horror surpassing horror as days and weeks pass, you try to find ways to end your life by stopping breathing or whatever might work. Pleasure and pain are reversed but in the context of a broader value reversal where good becomes evil and evil becomes good. This way they can keep your ethical process intact, simply inverting its activators.

They live in a nightmare constantly-shifting fantasy world where nothing is consistent and taught to impose their will upon reality.

It is a living nightmare where inconsistency is the least of your worries. Yet it does prevent you from grasping onto anything. While it might be a sought effect, imposing one's will upon reality becomes a survival response when you are utterly helpless in a world of abuse.

This then progresses to training per aptitude of the individual including psychic and very esoteric techniques that have been know in these secret societies since ancient egypt and beyond. This is not new, just highly refined technology.

Things keep getting worse until you 'lose your mind' or shut down. Seeing other kids die is the hardest part. At the risk of repeating myself, "it just ain't human".

By the time they are pre-teens they are killers of an order of magnitude beyond mosts imagination.

Killing starts with small cuddly animals and you then graduate to child sacrifice. This is part of the "traditional" dissociative process from ancient times, which survives today and is used to shock the one holding the instrument more than the others. They like to murder the most gentle and kind of the kids. Was I nasty enough to survive or simply better connected? This is where I turned on them permanently, even though they still had their hooks in me. My conclusion is that secret societies still use ritual sacrifice to reactivate this shock effect to put participants back into control mode. I find this easier to believe of as the ongoing practice of a predatory species rather than of a perpetually renewed small group of dominant people.

Death is a constant reality and thousands are eliminated brutally in the training. Such a simple mission as was carried out by Jared would be a mere walk in the park.

That's the very function of training. Making the real game play a walk in the park. Tough cookies for the others in the park?

I think if he was a MK-victim he was a one time use throw-away... or they used a real MK-victim to perform it and framed Jared as has been suggested here. That he was aware of his mind control before age 30 indicates he was either not a full MK-victim or a reject from the program for disposable use.

This is quite possible, that he had a conscience which bothered him and was thus a "reject for disposable use. I was myself attempted to be disposed of at a younger age than him, kidnapped and narrowly escaped murder but managed to escape: that training does give you abilities. The guys arrested made a deal for their release: they were allegedly "agents required for important national security operations". So they do dispose of renegades, either usefully or just to curb trouble.

GM:

I am assure your aware of this information from other posts but I will throw it out in response to your post.

Thousands upon thousands of children are funneled into the MK-ULTRA program through the CIA, cults, and kidnappings. One of the more recent sources I've come across is in connection with Julian Assange. He was part of the Hamilton-Byrne cult in Australia which funneled thousands of blue-eyed blond-hairied children around the world.

That is very interesting about Assange. But he just might be a renegade like me? Or a tool, time will tell.


Thousands of such children were 'drafted' into the program - kidnapped - and sent to to remote hospital/academy locations for mind control programming. There were over 30 of these facilities throughout Europe, which processed as many as 30,000 new births.
link

Makow is quite a valid source, only it is important to remember when reading his website that the Zionists are not to be equated with the Jewish people. They are a stealth underground group which is united by a plan for global domination and the establishing of the new Zion. But they permeate many different communities of which Israel is only one. They are largely involved in the mind control programming and abuse.

This was an off-shoot of the German Lebensborn and used many of the techniques of MK-ULTRA. The children were brainwashed tortured and drugged until they willingly accepted new identities. They accepted Hamilton-Byrne as their mother and their true mothers were just "aunties"... here is an excerpt:

Sounds familiar. At age 11 I was "offered" for adoption by a family friend specialized in developing psychic abilities. I was able to opt out. There is such a sense of family with these people...


excerpt

I was absolutely terrified of the Aunties a lot of the time when we were young and so were the others. I remember one morning we were downstairs on the concrete doing exercises supervised by Aunty Helen, when Trish called down saying that she wanted to see David K. She probably wanted to give him a belting because he'd wet his bed which he did every night. But this morning David was so terrified when he heard her calling his name that he simply stood, rooted to the spot, and just lost control of his bowels. We all watched in horrified fascination and anticipation of what terrible trouble he would be in now, as pieces of # dropped out of his pants and onto the concrete. Trish, very annoyed that he hadn't jumped to it, and interpreting his action as a new defiance, dragged him upstairs and gave him an even bigger belting than usual.

We were punished for not closing the lounge room door, for dirtying our smocks, for not practising our piano pieces in the right order, for untidy hand-writing, for not putting our shoes on fast enough, making a mess, talking when we were not supposed to, using forbidden words ('hate' was a word that was forbidden). It didn't have to be much: make your bed wrongly, look at one of the Aunties with what was called 'dumb insolence' (quite what that was I never found out although I always wanted to ask- but that would have been insolent in itself), speak during hatha or lights out, or a million other little things that infringed either the written laws, or an unwritten expectation of the place that children had in the scheme of things.

Megan Dawes once missed meals for a day because she was caught wearing odd socks. We weren't even allowed to go to the toilet until the designated recess time and so of course kids would wet their pants and be belted for that. One time we had a baby called Madeleine staying with us for a few weeks. She was locked in a cot all day with the sides up. She had not reached the walking stage and so couldn't get out of the cot and get to the toilet. However that didn't stop the Aunties. She still got belted when she wet or dirtied her nappy. I remember Trish ordering me to bathe Madeleine in a basin after she had soiled herself. The water had to be icy cold as a punishment and Trish smacked her after I bathed her. She was screaming and I had difficulty holding her still in the cold water.

We were often punished for rocking. We used to rock ourselves to sleep at night because we felt so miserable, sitting up on our haunches and swaying to and fro, or just rocking our head from side to side.. Often after a belting we would call out 'Mummy, Daddy' as we rocked to and fro, calling out to a Mummy and Daddy who were not there and did not care. When we were younger a few of us, myself included used to headbang as we rocked: it was a way of seeking comfort. If we were caught, we were punished with another belting, or being put outside on the concrete for the remainder of the night, or getting cold water tipped over us. Rocking was considered to be bad because, even when we were tiny children it was interpreted as a form of sexual gratification.

If we transgressed by word thought or deed any one of the thousands of petty little rules that governed our lives we were in trouble. There were so many rules that it was impossible to keep them all and also so many unfair reasons for punishment. Even if we tried our best we still couldn't keep out of trouble

link.

I also remember 'rocking' being banned. Possibly because it is a natural way of coping with trauma by simulating the motion of a mother's womb? No comforting is tolerated.

This is just a new item i've found. The CIA has been using cults since the 50's to breed children for the program and has been repeatedly caught in child slave trafficking. The Conspiracy of Silence History Channel documentary talks about some of this.

That's a hard watch. But it is important to stick it out, if you don't yet know the dirty truth.


Thanks for the refresher, though these are not memories that need refreshing. Those who are the forgotten victims are the children sacrificed to cause traumatic dissociation in others. They are the saddest victims of the lot and it is in their memory that I combat the bastards who continue to perpetrate such crimes.


GS
edit on 22-2-2011 by Getsmart because: once you've seen an gentle innocent kid murdered it is hard to forget the culprits.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by Getsmart
 


Regarding the math teacher , I found it hard to believe he was a teacher , his responses on occasion were strange and laboured .

Out of all the "witnesses " the ex girlfriend "seemed " the most sincere/natural but then again she did not reveal much and had not seen him for 5 years .

Do you guys find it strange that Jl's dad could not find him or his car in the desert after chasing him BUT the sheriff found a diaper bag with JL's ammo afterwards . I mean the deserts a big place right ?


Its another "we found the 9-11 terrorists paper passport moment " .



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by Getsmart
 


GS do you find similarities with mk victims such as Arizona wilder . Do you believe their accounts , obviously a few claim sightings of reptilians etc . Whats your take ?



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by Getsmart
Pleasure and pain are reversed but in the context of a broader value reversal where good becomes evil and evil becomes good.

Things keep getting worse until you 'lose your mind' or shut down. Seeing other kids die is the hardest part.

Killing starts with small cuddly animals and you then graduate to child sacrifice. This is part of the "traditional" dissociative process from ancient times,

That's the very function of training. Making the real game play a walk in the park. Tough cookies for the others in the park?

That is very interesting about Assange. But he just might be a renegade like me? Or a tool, time will tell.

Sounds familiar. At age 11 I was "offered" for adoption by a family friend specialized in developing psychic abilities. I was able to opt out.

Thanks for the refresher, though these are not memories that need refreshing. Those who are the forgotten victims are the children sacrificed to cause traumatic dissociation in others. They are the saddest victims of the lot and it is in their memory that I combat the bastards who continue to perpetrate such crimes.


Starting at the end and working to the beginning... Was meant forr DZ and others not familiar... but I must say you hit this reply out of the park with insight I'm not sure anyone but someone who's been through it could have... And maybe the saddest victims might be those still alive and left to deal with all the pain, not those who are dead and moved on.

Didn't know opting out was an option... not heard anyone who has had a choice before.

Are you a renegade? Does anyone truely ever FULLY slip their programming? How can you know. Even Duncan says he's still being used... as well as every other MK victim I know.

Weird reply comes up but I delete it. The function of the training makes responses like breathing. Walking in the park requires much more effort. If you've not seen the outcome before you begin your not even functioning.

Tigers cubs have such big blue eyes. Not sure they are cuddly in the normal sense.

You don't loose your mind or shut down... you disassociate.. which creates Dissociative Identity Disorder.. and each "dissociative personality" become an "altar" which is sealed with a Daemon. Each altar has it's own life and specific purpose. Some are aware of the system some are not. Some are full personalities, some are just used in programming to keep the victim unaware they are a MK victim in various ways... Spinners, and suicide, and "check yourself into the hospital" and flashers which bring up the electroshock to cover over memories... and you seem to know more about some of this than me. Survival is the hardest thing according to most Mk victims. "Why should I be alive when everyone else is dead?" which of course syncs right into so much of the programing. They know psychology much better than any textbook. Screw freud.. he was a know nothing freak.

You are absolutely correct and I thought this and left this out semi-on-purpose from my post but you filled it right in... very showing that you've been through this or have studied it well. Forgive me if I truly trust no one.

******
This is very dangerous information to be spoken of so freely. A fools game for sure.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 06:59 AM
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Praze Getsmart and others .
www.abovetopsecret.com...

NEW Loughner mugshot ..
Lemme know what you think .



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Doomzilla
Praze Getsmart and others .
www.abovetopsecret.com...

NEW Loughner mugshot ..
Lemme know what you think .


Very close, but not the same guy. The ear lobes give it away with certainty. The question is why would THEY release a photo that is clearly so different from the other one. Are THEY just sloppy or careless? Or is someone trying to make a point here?



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by Doomzilla
 


I think it's the same guy in both pictures.

The first released image is photoshoped. You need look no further than this image with the obviously painted in black dot with faux white dot eye shine.


I don't know if this is the "real Jared" but it is the same guy in both photos.



posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by Getsmart
WHERE DID THE SHEETS COME FROM? they are at a safeway not a bed bath and beyond for sh*t's sake! 
First paramedics on the scene and the bodies are already covered with sheets?


The whole crime scene does seem to have been 'staged' in some manner, as suggested by these quotes:

www.washingtonpost.com...
The deputies who initially responded said they were not the ones who arrested the suspect, Jared Lee Loughner. Instead, their focus was conducting triage through the parking lot: figuring out who was dead, who was injured...

The first cops on scene ignore the suspect, and decide to play EMT tech?

www.youtube.com...
witness Andrea Gooden: (30 sec mark)
Q: "And did you see an immediate emergency response? Did you sense that security detail may have been on... on scene already?"
A: "I did sense that. There was an immediate response within a minute...


azstarnet.com...
"It was surreal. Gunshots sound less real in person," he(Dr. Steven Rayle) said. "I thought someone was staging a protest. It just didn't feel real."

tucsoncitizen.com...
--Lachelle Smith, 48 “I felt like I was looking through the glass at a movie. I thought I was watching a movie. It didn’t feel real,” Smith said.

Well it doesn't feel 'real' to me, either.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by Getsmart
 


Are you around Getsmart ? I havent seen you since before the 2nd mugshot was released .
I wanted to know your opinion

Thanks .



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by pianopraze
reply to post by Doomzilla
 


I think it's the same guy in both pictures.

The first released image is photoshoped. You need look no further than this image with the obviously painted in black dot with faux white dot eye shine.


I don't know if this is the "real Jared" but it is the same guy in both photos.


I'm not really sure what is going on here. You're saying the dark of the eye is painted in? And the white is painted in? What is with the blue and red dots next to the eyes? I think the photo could be photoshopped but not really sure what this zoom in to the eye is saying.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Doomzilla

Are you around Getsmart ? I havent seen you since before the 2nd mugshot was released .
I wanted to know your opinion


Hi Doomzilla,


Sorry was away doing something strange, called living your life.



Anyways, this is interesting because it brings up several things. For starters here's a fairly well resized mugshot for a comparison.





There are a number of discrepancies between the 2 pictures. But first a few comments.


Neither "mugshot" should be called a mugshot because neither carries a reference board with numbers as is used in all professional law enforcement to identify suspects and prisoners. So these are informal "prisoner photos" which keeps the perpetrators who faked the pictures safe from prosecution because it can always be later established that there was a 'mix up' and unofficial pictures were somehow mysteriously substituted for the real ones?

Mugshot of 50 Cent's aka Curtis James Jackson III



To further explore this aspect of these pictures, let us take a look at what a Mugshot is supposed to look like.



The problem with mugshots' usage as a lineup tool lies with the uniformity of mugshots taken from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Whereas similar looking suspects presented in an unbiased photographic manner leads to identifications that can influence judges and juries, carelessly taken mugshots, mugshots with different lighting, different colored-backgrounds, disparate poses or aspect ratios may lead to bias in identifying perpetrators of crime - oftentimes leading to prosecutors determining that this type of evidence would be impermissible or worse the successful suppression of this type of evidence in courts of law. Thus, to create photographic arrays that consist of similar photographs fall into the hands of individuals making subjective decisions.

The NIST has developed the Best Practice Recommendation for the Capture of Mugshots. These practices, developed over the course of several years, were introduced in 1997 to mandate uniformity and consistency in mugshot taking. To create and maintain uniformity, NIST suggests standardization of the following photograph specifications:

Types of Poses
Depth of Field
Centering
Lighting
Background
Exposure
Aspect Ratio
Minimum Number of Pixels
Color Space
Pixel Aspect Ratio
Compression Algorithm
File Format


Source: Mugshot Capturing - NIST Best Practices


The first picture published had no reference background. The second one has no measurement markings in the lines behind the subject. Also it is uncharacteristic that the backgrounds would be sand colored, possibly to make it look more like the first released picture. Law enforcement use neutral backgrounds and many countries today refuse a sand background even for passport photos, requiring it to be white or very light gray.



The subject whose image is being captured shall be positioned in front of a background which is 18% gray with a plain smooth flat surface. A Kodak or other neutral gray card or densitometer shall be used to verify this 18% gray reflectance requirement.

Subject illumination shall be accomplished using a minimum of three (3) point balanced illumination. Appropriate diffusion techniques shall also be employed and lights positioned to minimize shadows, and to eliminate hot spots on the facial image. These hot spots usually appear on reflective areas such as cheeks
and foreheads. Proper lighting shall contribute to the uniformity of illumination of the background described in the exposure requirement.


Source: BEST PRACTICE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE CAPTURE OF MUGSHOTS


Hotspotting on the forehead, nose and right cheek, in addition to the evident photoshopping of the first alleged mugshot of the alleged suspect, make it a photograph which a Judge would throw away in court as unacceptable evidence. Furthermore both photos would have to be rejected due to the facial expression which is not accepted.


This I choose to enter as evidence that neither of the photographs submitted to the press for public release is an actual law enforcement mugshot.



Facial expression:

The expression should be neutral (non-smiling) with both eyes open normally (i.e. not wide-open), and mouth closed. Every effort should be made to have supplied images conform with this specification. A smile with closed jaw is not recommended.

Subject lighting:

Lighting shall be equally distributed on the face. There shall be no significant direction of
the light from the point of view of the photographer. The region of the face, from the crown to the base of the chin, and from ear-to-ear, shall be clearly visible and free of shadows. In particular, there shall be no dark shadows in
the eye-sockets due to the brow and the iris and pupil of the eyes shall be clearly visible.


Source: BEST PRACTICE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE CAPTURE OF MUGSHOTS


In both alleged mugshots Jared is "smirking" and either one or both of the brows cast a shadow on the eye = NOT a valid mugshot!


Now to address the issue of discrepancies in the two photos. First we will note that one pictures is very sharpened, almost to the point of distortion, while the other one is softened. This doesn't help in the comparison and it might be on purpose, maybe not. Secondly the head is tilted differently in each one. I didn't straighten it because there is another discrepancy, in the more recent picture he is full face while in the earlier picture his chin is slightly raised, slightly changing the perspective.


It is important to remember that Jared has a taller, broader forehead than the person photographed in the first picture which was further photoshopped to resemble him. This can be seen in the annotated photo comparison which you will find below. Take a long hard look at the vertical bone ridge above his right eye, which is highlighted in a pink rectangle. This should show you first that it isn't present on the first individual shown, to the right, and that the forehead proportions are very different meaning that unless Jared has a fully elastic skull bone this is NOT the same person.


Mugshots compared - note the differences



As I stated earlier, the V-shaped vertical bone ridge on the forehead circled in above in BLACK is absent on the first mugshot released. Notice also the SIZE of the Pink Rectangle. It reaches the same two points. This demonstrated that their foreheads are very different shaped, the slight angle shift between pictures being too minute to explain such a discrepancy. Also, the wound on the forehead at the top of the pink rectangle is not in the same location, and seems more healed in the first picture than in the recent one, both of these discrepancies are not easily explained away.


Importantly, the EYES are NOT THE SAME COLOR regardless of lighting. The color of the eyes on the latest Mugshot released brings to mind that the latest (second) mugshot released could very well be the real Jared, at least it seems to be very similar to that of the photos of Jared taken in recent years. Jared's eyes were called BLUE in all his Pima Community College Police Incident Reports and we can see that in the second picture that is likely, but in the first one who would call that color blue?.


Next we have a further incompatibility with the mouth size and location. First the mouth on the first mugshot is a good bit larger. This is because it is another man, and mouth size is something which plastic surgery cannot correct. They clearly went with as close a match for other parameters, and hoped to distract from the mouth size discrepancy by adding the photoshopped "Joker smile" to sidetrack the viewer. Also in addition to being a good bit wider and having fuller lips, the mouth is located a good bit closer to the nose, and this even though the photo angle with his head slightly raised would tend to increase this proportion subjectively. This can be seen better by circling the respective zones in RED. The smaller nose to lip distance is further evidence that the first man photographed, presumably the perpetrator of the Giffords Shootings, is a surgically modified impostor and not Jared.


In RED: Mouth size and distance to nose



Next let's take a look at ear biometrics and a few rudiments of technical terms for comparison purposes.


Ear helix biometrics


Source: Wikipedia


Tthe general shape of the ear cartilage is quite different. There are also specific areas of the ears which are sensibly unmatched. The Right ear circled in YELLOW shows a different Tragus in each person, and the lobe is far more fleshy with thicker cartilage on the impostor. The Left ear circled in GREEN shows a differently shaped bottom to the Helix in addition to a different lobe.


In YELLOW and GREEN: Multiple Ear shape inconsistencies



I will venture further so suggest that the second mugshot may have had the neck photoshopped. This is based upon the far thinner neck on Jared in earlier pictures, the fact that Pima Community College Police reported his build as thin which wouldn't explain a thickened neck, and the fact that in the second pair of mugshots the Profile view shows a distinctly peaked Adam's Apple which doesn't show up at all in the Front view. I venture to suggest that the perpetrator's thicker neck may have been grafted onto the picture of Jared in the second series frontal view. From the side his neck looks thin, but from the front it looks thick, most necks are wider front to back than side to side.


Second set of mugshots with unmatched necks?



I also believe that we were not shown a Profile of the first man photographed upon arrest because the surgically modified Agency Impostor passed as a good double from the front but probably had a very different skull shape when seen in Profile. This would explain why we were not given a full set of mugshots, front and profile, for the first man arrested who has since probably been removed from detention and most likely permanently been disposed of.


These are my first reactions to these new pictures, proving to me beyond the shadow of a doubt that the man pictured in the first photograph, if he was indeed the man arrested upon the scene of the shooting, is NOT Jared Loughner.


Getsmart



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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I don't think we will ever know what happened to the shooter or "Jared Loughner."



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by Getsmart
 


Good to have you back ,reading your post now . Thanks for your effort GS .

Edit - The ears and eye colours were the biggest discrepancies imo .
Neither look 22 imo either .
So you think they are 2 different people . Are either Jared?
Why did they release this second picture in your opinion ? All it has done is create more suspicion
edit on 25-2-2011 by Doomzilla because: (no reason given)



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