Obama’s Internet I.D = National Identification Card

reply to post by silo13


Nazis? Really? Please tell me where you learned that the Nazi's only mistreated, killed, and invaded the folks who volunteered for it.

So now you’ve got your so called Internet License. Your License to surf the world. (How sick is that).

Well, you bellied up to volunteer for that farce, sooooo, guess what your reward is for being the fine (if ignorant) person that you are?

Once licensed you (and the net) can be regulated.
Once regulated, you, the licensee is subject to penalties.

My God I can see it now... ‘Sorry folks, I wont be on ATS for 3-6 months, I’ve been busted for speaking out on ‘thus and so’ once again so they've banned me from the Internet for a while.’

You think this is a joke? Sensational? Fine. Think what you want.

Oh, don’t forget to add this post to your bookmarks... I’ll be here to gladly give you some recipes for crow later.

peace

reply to post by silo13


If you all stop fantasizing about Alex Jones grade paranoid nonsense and get anything real to back up this paranoia, that might be interesting to read. I do not understand how people sit around forums just making up crap and then have the nerve to say anyone that does not believe the things they just made up are ignorant. Amazing!

reply to post by Sinnthia

Sinnthia - Look, poking fun at me and being willingly ignorant of the meaning to this thread is your right, so knock yourself out.

But the facts are, and will remain that if you care about Freedom - at all - common sense (at least) should tell you that the USA should NEVER submit to anything that resembles a National ID Card.

If you can’t figure out the reason why, then again, why not use you time wisely and go out and educate yourself on WHY the people of the USA should never willingly submit to it’s citizens carrying a National ID Card - by whatever name ‘they’ want to call it - Internet License - or National ID Card. They are one in the same.

Oh and by the way. You laugh at ‘Oh noooooes the Government might have my information...’
Ok, I choose to laugh right back.
If they already have the information then WHY IN THE HELL DO WE HAVE TO CARRY A CARD?

Get it? Not yet? Ok then go Google search the history of Germany - that might be a good place to start.

peace

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

Sinnthia - Look, poking fun at me and being willingly ignorant of the meaning to this thread is your right, so knock yourself out.

Again calling me ignorant and playing the victim? Sad.

[quiote]But the facts are, and will remain that if you care about Freedom - at all - common sense (at least) should tell you that the USA should NEVER submit to anything that resembles a National ID Card.

You have yet to provide any commen sense reasons why any optional ID is a threat to anything.

If you can’t figure out the reason why, then again, why not use you time wisely and go out and educate yourself on WHY the people of the USA should never willingly submit to it’s citizens carrying a National ID Card - by whatever name ‘they’ want to call it - Internet License - or National ID Card. They are one in the same.

I have no need to educate myself on why people should never do something entirely optional for them to do. If you think it is a bad idea, DO NOT GET ONE.

Oh and by the way. You laugh at ‘Oh noooooes the Government might have my information...’
Ok, I choose to laugh right back.
If they already have the information then WHY IN THE HELL DO WE HAVE TO CARRY A CARD?

LMAO! Educate yourself on the purpose of the ID and you would know. It is not to lock down the internet, but then I am sure your next post will drop the emotional rants and begin providing some facts to show otherwise.

Get it? Not yet? Ok then go Google search the history of Germany - that might be a good place to start.

peace

edit on 10-1-2011 by silo13 because: (no reason given)

Germany? So it whas the optional internet ID that started all that Nazi stuff?

reply to post by Sinnthia


What part of protesting and freedom of speech and being punished for it not related to the freedom of speech on the Internet once you have an ID. How do you know they won't when the ID is adopted that they won't make it minatory?

You don't even know what freedoms you have lost during the Bush years.

Me thinks you need to go back and reread history to see how changes have been made in other countries and then read Naomi Wolfs book The End of America before you start lecturing me. See what GW has taken from the Amerikan people already. Obama speaks of the New World Order, and so has Tony Blair until he quit then Brown and now Cameron has said it a few times. Wake up. Its people who never serve their country that have the largest to say..... Wonder if you served and did more than birth to earn your rights how that sacrifice would changed you!!!!!!

Not off topic? Internet currently = freedom of speech

Protest marches used to = freedom of speech

I protested got on TV News many times now during those protest marches and now I don't have freedom of movement.

Who told you that you have a right to the Internet?

I worked in computers in the early 80's to 2000 - I help developed hardware. The changes that make computers what they are today! I went from being WordStar hardware consultant (as an independent I worked for many IT Companies at the same time) to Demon the Internet hardware consultant as the CEO of WS and their Marketing Manager quit WS to form Demon which was an ISP for people like me (in those days the public did not have computers) which help shaped the Internet to what it is today. Demon was the 3rd Internet provider in England. If you saw the computer companies I worked for as an independent you won't be impressed. That is okay others are. I hate it that people like me help create a wonderful system that the government now wants to control it, I have watch trends and only trying to tell you what I foresee that you are blinded to.

One of the reason I left Amerika is my service at a very unpopular war. Between not getting my job back as promised by a Union and Congress to many anti war people in California made me feel dirty for my contributions. My only choice was to go to University to get a white collar job. LOL these were the people I was protecting their freedom BTW, LOL that was what the government told me and others like me.

I have watched the government change their minds so many times. You have not seen the shrinking of freedom cause you have never done anything for it and now not willing to fight for it. This is why I left. Where is your outrage that someone standing up for Veterans Rights and was in an unpopular war be treated like this....

I have been gone from Amerika now in my 26 year and from afar I can see the changes that you are blind to that is not paranoid that is being observant. If you consider it to be paranoid then I rather be that than ignorant to the changes to Amerika over the last 30 years.

Quoting Bill Hicks rest his soul, Nothing to see here folks move along! Go back to sleep Amerika go back to sleep, Heres Amerikan Gladiators... On every channel.

reply to post by IceHappy


I think you represent a very spoiled segment of the population when you equate the internet with free speech. You have no right to a computer. You have to get your own. You have no right to an internet connection, you have to pay for that. You have no right to a voice on the web, you have to find a place to give you the space to do that. Free speech was around long before the internet and will be long after. If even closing the interent was remotely close to infringing on a right of free speech then you are telling me that we had no free speech before the 80s? Then I guess we are more free than ever by your logic.

Please save your emotional appeals about what may and what could. I am only interested in what will. There is not one FACT to any of this to make me worry that I will ever be required to get and internet liscense just to use the internet. In fact, I suspect you have little understanding of how the internet works. Please go and show me otherwise. Explain logistically how this would and could be implemented. I want every step, every detail. Maybe then I can be paranoid about something you just made up as well.

Convince me. Not with emotional appeals. You have done that to death. Try using reality. Please?

Originally posted by miniatus
reply to post by glome

 

Again.. it's voluntary so don't get one... you just might find certain online businesses requiring it.. by the way I don't see how this allows the government to track you.. it's issued federally because it's used on the internet which crosses state lines so it can only be issued federally anyway.. but the point is, it's voluntary and will only be required by businesses or services that want to make it required.. online retailers, social networks.. those kinds of entities will likely require it at some point to prevent fraud or identity theft.

But again... don't get one if you don't want one..

Let get this straight you are going to guarantee that this ID will remain voluntary?

If it is not needed and only voluntary why should a taxpayer all ready stretched and benefits being cut should taxpayers money be diverted from Medi Care and other social programs in to a not needed (as it is voluntary) program? Any idea how much taxpayers money will go into setting this up? The card making the computer and other office equipment the salaries and benefits of government staff to run a part time business that only a few will join?

I used to think tax payers were sick of wastes. I guess that was in a dream!

Again I keep asking how will this ID enhance your eBay experience?

"Schmidt stressed today that anonymity and pseudonymity will remain possible on the Internet. "I don't have to get a credential if I don't want to," he said. There's no chance that "a centralized database will emerge," and "we need the private sector to lead the implementation of this," he said."

reply to post by Sinnthia


If the Government already has this then why does the tax payer need more cost over duplicated info.

How will this card enhance your eBay experience.

We keep trying to answer your question whilst you ignore ours like the above line - please play fair!

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by IceHappy

 

I think you represent a very spoiled segment of the population when you equate the internet with free speech. You have no right to a computer. You have to get your own. You have no right to an internet connection, you have to pay for that. You have no right to a voice on the web, you have to find a place to give you the space to do that. Free speech was around long before the internet and will be long after. If even closing the interent was remotely close to infringing on a right of free speech then you are telling me that we had no free speech before the 80s? Then I guess we are more free than ever by your logic.

Please save your emotional appeals about what may and what could. I am only interested in what will. There is not one FACT to any of this to make me worry that I will ever be required to get and internet liscense just to use the internet. In fact, I suspect you have little understanding of how the internet works. Please go and show me otherwise. Explain logistically how this would and could be implemented. I want every step, every detail. Maybe then I can be paranoid about something you just made up as well.

Convince me. Not with emotional appeals. You have done that to death. Try using reality. Please?

LOL I have paid very little for the equipment I own.... When one spent years in the computer trade and receive many freebees to test kit out I would say my entire office of many watercooled computers has cost me personally less than your computers in your houses.... but then you don't know me so how could you know that and making a rash statement....

I am done with you - I am chocking you up as one of those fine Amerikans that spat on me when I got into my hometown in uniform having arrived in a Travis AFB Transport. A uniformed that said I did something for freedom.

I take it that you are one of these disinformation types I have heard about on ATS.

I have given you a book title to expand your limited thinking and you choose to remain shouting at those who are trying to inform you by historical facts where this is leading.

You have ignored my questions on increased taxations to cover this cost of a voluntary registration that will only be for people like you. Seems to me it may be a small club very expensive to tax payers.

You have ignored my question on how this will enhanced your shopping experience on eBay.

Disinformation person - Do you work for this ID program? Where is the ignore button. Have a nice day....

Originally posted by IceHappy
LOL I have paid very little for the equipment I own.... When one spent years in the computer trade and receive many freebees to test kit out I would say my entire office of many watercooled computers has cost me personally less than your computers in your houses.... but then you don't know me so how could you know that and making a rash statement....

I am not sure if you are not reading or not understanding. Since when is paying very little NOT paying?

I am done with you - I am chocking you up as one of those fine Amerikans that spat on me when I got into my hometown in uniform having arrived in a Travis AFB Transport. A uniformed that said I did something for freedom.

Wow. Because I do not believe this story about a paranoid future with no facts to back it up, I spit on the military? Are you even trying to make sense?

I take it that you are one of these disinformation types I have heard about on ATS.

You are making up stories about things that have not happened and have no indication of happening and I am a disinfo type? Does my wanting facts really scare people that much?

I have given you a book title to expand your limited thinking and you choose to remain shouting at those who are trying to inform you by historical facts where this is leading.

Tell me which page of that book outlines the scenario you claim is going to happen and it better cite actual legislation.

You have ignored my questions on increased taxations to cover this cost of a voluntary registration that will only be for people like you. Seems to me it may be a small club very expensive to tax payers.

People like me? What are you talking about? I would not volunteer for a national internet ID. That is just stupid.

You have ignored my question on how this will enhanced your shopping experience on eBay.

I addressed it directly. The article actually goes over this. Apparently you decided to skip over the facts in search of predictions based on....?

Disinformation person - Do you work for this ID program? Where is the ignore button. Have a nice day....

Sure, I am the top spokesperson even though I am going on record twice now as stating I would never volunteer myself for such a program. Your entire post is a lot of assumption about me personally. Now I see how you work. You just make up whatever you want.

reply to post by Sinnthia


Play fair and answer my questions.......

the equipment I have paid for have been written off in taxes i.e. tools of the trade!

Originally posted by IceHappy
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

Play fair and answer my questions.......

the equipment I have paid for have been written off in taxes i.e. tools of the trade!

I have answered your questions. You know exactly what I mean when I speak of the difference between a right to posess something and actively having to take steps to acquire it. I could care less if you got bundles of 100 dollar bills with your computer equipment. You are trying to make a false semantical argument when you know that you do not have a right to a computer, internet connection, use of the communications infrastructure put in place by private companies, etc. Even if you can get them for free, they are not RIGHTS and you know.

Further, you have shown yourself to not be a man of your word. Add that to your fantasy story with no facts and I am not sure why I am supposed to put any value in your claims.

I am not sure how many times you want me to ask for facts to back up your story but I think I have asked more than enough times. You want answers to your questions? Start by answering mine. Where are the facts? I asked first. Then again, I now know you cannot be trusted to reply honestly.

reply to post by Sinnthia


Since the id scheme is not in place there are no facts ergo what are you asking for is not a reality but an argument!!!

NO,YOU HAVE NOT answered my questions they are the two below......

1) How will this ID scheme add to your internet shopping experience on say eBay!

2) Why would an over burden tax payer need to pay the cost of equipping this scheme between office rent, heating and cooling along with all of the office equipment, federal employees wages along with their benefits and retirement not forgetting the cost of the equipment needed to issue and track ID's to a limited amount of people as you yourself has stated you won't be signing up. FACTS this scheme will require more money than the ID fees will generate. Facts the US Government is cutting benefits to the needy! Facts the government owes more money than my childrens children will be able to pay for with out adding this ID scheme costs.

America has lost freedom much of it under the Bush Admin. I have offer a book that will explain these facts to you sort of history lesson to predict the future.

Surely you must see their are no facts one way or the other to support this scheme yet. Any thing a politician says is not facts. Posters keep quote their statements but the are political promises. Well to me myself and many like me have learned politician claims before the facts are not to be trust. Please visit your local VA hospital and talk to Vets who paid the price for your freedom on their view on these politician promises and asked them two things 1) do they feel they were lied to about their service and benefits and 2) would they do it again!

Since there are no true facts I will rely on this quote to justify my reflections

Those who ignore history are bound or doomed to repeat it! I cannot remember the exact quote but this will do....

I urge every one of you to Oppose Mr Obama's Internet ID registration by sending/forwarding this letter to your Congressperson. (link = source)

peace

Originally posted by IceHappy
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

Since the id scheme is not in place there are no facts ergo what are you asking for is not a reality but an argument!!!

Thank you for finally admitting this is all fantasy. Stop hounding me with your questions. You do not get to bob and dodge and then demand answers. That is not how discourse works. You deal with the questions before you before demanding anyone answer yours. There are no facts. Your words.

reply to post by silo13


Or just do not get one. You know the same way you can still choose not to get a shopper's club card or join a private club. So you can just not get one, or waste a stamp and a sheet of paper denying anyone else get the option. Whatever works.

reply to post by Sinnthia

So you can just not get one, or waste a stamp and a sheet of paper denying anyone else get the option.

Denying someone else the option? Hmmm,,, Like the government is the only show in town.
News Flash - Many professional Internet Security companies exists even now that offer the same thing - if not better - than what the government is proposing. IE - You pay them, they keep you secure and without a Universal Internet ID Token/National ID Card.

Beyond that the government already has the right of warrant/subpoena against the private information people accumulate on the Internet, so once again, the Universal ID Card is useless for the reasons they’ve stated. Other than to - what was it - make buying on Ebay easier? *Face Palm*

IMO what Obama is proposing is nothing more than a ruse - and a poor one at that - to get the people of the USA to comply (willingly) to a National ID Card, just as I‘m sure (post) the next horrible tragedy the future has in store for the USA the ‘voluntary’ option on said card will expire. What Obama has in his favor is there are people who just refuse to see the truth and I pity them.

So, I've made myself clear enough that others can and do understand my point(s). That you don't - or refuse to - is your own affair, I'm not interested in trying to change your mind - or to continue to explain what I've already explained in depth.

Added to that? Your signature, when you joined and your thread/posts history, combined with the above (quoted statement) has only reinforced my opinion of who and what you are here on ATS - and that’s nothing more than a fledgling Disinfo Agent only just cutting their teeth and using ATS as a vehicle to do so. My opinion - and not something I will debate.

And if I’m wrong? It really doesn’t change much as I’m through with the back and forth between us. I refuse to derail my own thread dealing with your opinion.

So, Welcome to ATS, enjoy your stay and peace to you and yours.

reply to post by silo13


I really do not get what your argument is. There are other options. So? This sounds like something my mom would sign up for if it makes it easier for her to do her online shopping. If the FBI wants to find out where my mom lives and how many snuggies she buys for Christmas, I do not care. I would not sign up with a private company any more than I would with the governmet. Screaming and crying that the option should not be given because you are paranoid makes little sense to me.

reply to post by Sinnthia


Just curious what government agency do you work for???

I cannot believe I feel for your BS.... I honestly thought you were out for a debate. Demanding answers from me and not playing fair.... Wow...... The first question was from your remarks which I was asking you to back up.... LOL...

Can somebody please tell me where the ignore button has gone...

I honestly thought you were looking for a debate but I feel that I have been bullied but now realize you have a hidden job.

Have a nice day and please do not respond you not needed this debate was not for you!