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New Ice Age Movie Depicts 2012 Crustal Shift Scenario ! The Evil Agenda Behind 2012.

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posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 



The reason I havn't gone through them line by line is because, they are not serious replies

Thanks for telling a falsehood - again!

Here you claim that the statement of a single geologist is important

The existence of deep continental roots and the absence of a continuous, global asthenosphere to "lubricate" plate motions, have rendered the classical model of plate movements untenable.

So when did this person write this? When was it published in a peer-reviewed journal?

It was never published in a peer review journal was it?




posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by truthseeker2000
 



Also he is unable to explain " Weather as a Force Multiplier " .

You provide a paper and you expect a certain answer and when others won't lie like you expect them to you have a hissy fit. Go ahead and whimper and cry. It's good for you. I simply won't be a liar like people that think that this paper is related to HAARP.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


You have a naive faith in peer review - that statement was the considered opinion of: Karsten M. STORETVEDT - here he gives thelowdown onhow this theory came to be adopted via the misinterpretation of data and wishfull thinking and subsequent ignoring of all contradictions.



New Concepts in Global Tectonics Newsletter, no. 55, June, 2010 4 ESSAY FALLING PLATE TECTONICS – RISING NEW PARADIGM: SALIENT HISTORICAL FACTS AND THE CURRENT SITUATION

Karsten M. STORETVEDT Institute of Geophysics, Univ. of Bergen, Bergen, Norway
karsten.storetvedt@gfi.uib.no Abstract:

To the mass of Earth scientists, drifting continents and plate tectonic principles are currently regarded the ultimate geological world picture. But how many have actually bothered to look critically at the actual history, and factual necessity, behind the super-mobile tectonic revolution that took place some four to five decades ago? Nonetheless, it has been extremely detrimental to a sound development of the Earth sciences that plate tectonics triumphed before critical tests had been performed – becoming soon so seductive that, in practice, it has remained immune to demolition by even the strongest counter-instances. Despite the fact that all critical tests have failed – having made plate tectonics a crisis-ridden construct already by the late 1970s, an almost pathological conservatism has enabled the 'beloved' hypothesis to stumble along, turning global geology into a classical zombie science. The purported simplicity of plate tectonics and the model's promised capacity to unify the Earth sciences are long gone. This essay deals with some critical aspects in the history of continental drift and plate tectonics, ending up with proposing a new paradigmatic platform for understanding and future research.


www.ncgt.org... issue 55 2cnd article
edit on 14-1-2011 by JohhnyBGood because: added new text +link



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by stereologist
 





You provide a paper and you expect a certain answer and when others won't lie like you expect them to you have a hissy fit. Go ahead and whimper and cry. It's good for you. I simply won't be a liar like people that think that this paper is related to HAARP.



Ok If you want the details of the paper to be discussed directly here instead of answering by referring the link to the paper provided. So the details are here. Can you answer now?

The US Air Force has the capability of manipulating climate either for testing purposes or for outright military-intelligence use. These capabilities extend to the triggering of floods, hurricanes, droughts and earthquakes. In recent years, large amounts of money have been allocated by the US Department of Defense to further developing and perfecting these capabilities.
Weather modification will become a part of domestic and international security and could be done unilaterally... It could have offensive and defensive applications and even be used for deterrence purposes. The ability to generate precipitation, fog, and storms on earth or to modify space weather, ... and the production of artificial weather all are a part of an integrated set of technologies which can provide substantial increase in US, or degraded capability in an adversary, to achieve global awareness, reach, and power. (US Air Force, emphasis added. Air University of the US Air Force, AF 2025 Final Report, csat.au.af.mil... emphasis added)


Climatic Manipulation by the US Military: The HAARP Program
Nicholas Begich --actively involved in the public campaign against HAARP-- describes HAARP as:
"A super-powerful radiowave-beaming technology that lifts areas of the ionosphere by focusing a beam and heating those areas. Electromagnetic waves then bounce back onto earth and penetrate everything -- living and dead." (for further details see Michel Chossudovsky, www.globalresearch.ca... )
World renowned scientist Dr. Rosalie Bertell depicts HAARP as "a gigantic heater that can cause major disruptions in the ionosphere, creating not just holes, but long incisions in the protective layer that keeps deadly radiation from bombarding the planet."

According to Richard Williams, a physicist and consultant to the David Sarnoff laboratory in Princeton
HAARP constitutes "an irresponsible act of global vandalism." He and others fear a secret second stage where HAARP would "beam much more energy into the ionosphere. That could produce a severe disruption of the upper atmosphere at one location that may produce effects that spread rapidly around the Earth for years." (Quoted in Scott Gilbert, Environmental Warfare and US Foreign Policy: The Ultimate Weapon of Mass Destruction, www.globalresearch.ca... )

HAARP has been presented to public opinion as a program of scientific and academic research. US military documents seem to suggest, however, that HAARP's main objective is to "exploit the ionosphere for Department of Defense purposes." Without explicitly referring to the HAARP program, a US Air Force study points to the use of "induced ionospheric modifications" as a means of altering weather patterns as well as disrupting enemy communications and radar. (Ibid)

HAARP also has the ability of triggering blackouts and disrupting the electricity power system of entire regions.
An analysis of statements emanating from the US Air Force points to the unthinkable: the covert manipulation of weather patterns, communications systems and electric power as a weapon of global warfare, enabling the US to disrupt and dominate entire regions of the World.

The HAARP antenna array and transmitters were slated to be built in several distinct phases www.haarp.alaska.edu...
• Developmental Prototype (DP) (See www.haarp.alaska.edu... )
• Filled DP (FDP),
• Limited IRI (LIRI)
• Full size or final IRI (FIRI).
See www.haarp.alaska.edu...
During the Clinton administration, the "Filled Developmental Prototype" (FDP), namely a system composed of an array of 48 active antenna elements with connected wireless transmitters, was installed and completed at the HAARP facility in 1994. (See Figure 1 below) Under the initial Developmental Prototype (DP), only 18 of the 48 transmitters were connected. Bernard Eastlund in a 1997 interview described this antenna array in its Filled DP stage as the "the largest ionospheric heater ever built". This system of 48 antennas, however, while fully operational, was not according to Eastlund, powerful enough (in 1997) "to bring the ideas in his patents to fruition":. "But they're getting up there", he said. "This is a very powerful device. Especially if they go to the expanded stage." (quoted in Scott Gilbert, op cit, see also www.emagazine.com... )

This 'final expanded stage' envisioned by Eastlund, which will provide maximum capability to manipulate the World's weather patterns, has now been reached.Under the Bush administration, the main partner of Raytheon (which owns the patents) in the construction and development stage of the HAARP antenna array, is British Aerospace Systems (BAES), which had been involved in the initial installation of the antenna array in the early 1990s.

The multimillion dollar contract was granted by The Office of Naval Research to BAES in 2003, through its US subsidiary BAE Systems Advanced Technologies Inc. The contract was signed barely two months before the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq.

Using Raytheon's technology, BAES was to develop the HAARP Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI) to its maximum capabilities of "Full size or final IRI (FIRI)".

In April 2003, BAE Systems Advanced Technologies outsourced the production and installation of the antennas to Phazar Corp (www.phazar.com... ), a company specializing in advanced wireless antennas for military use. (Phazar owns Antenna Products Corporation of Mineral Wells, Texas www.antennaproducts.com... ). Phazar was entrusted with producing and installing 132 crossed dipole antennas items for the HAARP facility. (www.antennaproducts.com... )

A year later, in April 2004, the final phase in the expansion of the HAARP facility was launched. (Dept of Defense, 19 April 2004). This phase consisted in equipping all the 180 antennas with high frequency transmitters. BAE Systems was awarded another lucrative contract, this time for $35 million.
In July 2004, Phazar had delivered and installed the 132 crossed dipole antennas including the antenna support structures and ground screen items at the HAARP facility, bringing the number of antennas from 48 under the FDP stage to 180.
Meanwhile, BAE Systems had contracted with Jersey based defense electronics firm DRS Technologies, Inc in an $11.5 million outsourcing arrangement, the production and installation of the high-frequency (HF) radio transmitters for the HAARP antenna array. (See www.drs.com... and Business Wire, 15 June 2004). DRS specializes in a variety of leading edge products for the U.S. military and intelligence agencies. ( www.drs.com... ).
Under its contract with BAE Systems Information and Electronic Warfare Systems in Washington, D.C., DRS is to manufacture and install "more than 60 Model D616G 10-Kilowatt Dual Transmitters" to be used with the HAARP system of antennas. (It is unclear from the company statements whether all the 180 antennas will be equipped with a transmitter, bringing the system up to full IRI capabilities).
Deliveries and installation are to be completed by July 2006. While HAARP is described as a "research project", the production of the transmitters was entrusted to DRS' C41 "Command, Control, Communications, Computers and Intelligence (C4I) Group"

In this regard, a report published by the Russian parliament (Duma) in 2002, suggests that the US Military had plans to test its weather modification techniques at its Alaska facility, as well as at two other sites:
"The committees reported that the USA is planning to test three facilities of this kind. One of them is located on the military testing ground in Alaska and its full-scale tests are to begin in early 2003. The second one is in Greenland and the third one in Norway.

"When these facilities are launched into space from Norway, Alaska and Greenland, a closed contour will be created with a truly fantastic integral potential for influencing the near-Earth medium," the State Duma said.
The USA plans to carry out large-scale scientific experiments under the HAARP program, and not controlled by the global community, will create weapons capable of breaking radio communication lines and equipment installed on spaceships and rockets, provoke serious accidents in electricity networks and in oil and gas pipelines and have a negative impact on the mental health of people populating entire regions, the deputies said. (Interfax News Agency, original Russian, BBC Monitoring, 8 August 2002, emphasis added)
Whether this report by the Russian Duma on testing "starting in early 2003" is correct or not, the US administration must be confronted nationally and internationally, at the political and diplomatic levels, at the UN and the US Congress, by the international scientific community, by environmentalists and the antiwar movement.

The future of humanity is threatened by the use of weather modification techniques.

The Full Size Ionospheric Research Instrument FIRI stage, described as "a maximum size of 180 antenna elements, arranged in 15 columns by 12 rows" is scheduled to be completed by mid-2006 (assuming the installation of the remaining dual transmitters), at which time the HAARP program will have reached its maximum FIRI capacity, meaning the ability to selectively modify, for military use, weather patterns anywhere in the World.
www.haarp.alaska.edu...

This advanced stage of full capacity (FIRI) corresponds to what the US Air Force has called "Owning the Weather": US aerospace forces [will] 'own the weather' by capitalizing on emerging technologies and focusing development of those technologies to war-fighting applications... From enhancing friendly operations or disrupting those of the enemy via small-scale tailoring of natural weather patterns to complete dominance of global communications and counterspace control, weather-modification offers the war fighter a wide-range of possible options to defeat or coerce an adversary... In the United States, weather-modification will likely become a part of national security policy with both domestic and international applications. Our government will pursue such a policy, depending on its interests, at various levels.(US Air Force, emphasis added. Air University of the US Air Force, AF 2025 Final Report, csat.au.af.mil... )

Weather Warfare against "Rogue States"

The unusual climatic occurrences in the US and Western Europe have been extensively documented.
However, what the news media has failed to underscore is that a number of unusual and dramatic climatic changes have occurred in recent years in countries which are identified as possible targets under the US Administration's pre-emptive war doctrine.

Weather patterns in North Korea, for instance, have been marked since the mid-1990s by a succession of droughts, followed by floods. The result has been the destruction of an entire agricultural system. In Cuba, the pattern is very similar to that observed in North Korea.
In Iraq, Iran and Syria, a devastating drought occurred in 1999. In Afghanistan, four years of drought in the years preceding the US led invasion in 2001, have led to the destruction of the peasant economy, leading to widespread famine.
While there is no proof that these weather occurrences are the result of climatic warfare, Phillips Geophysics Lab, which is a partner in the HAARP project provides a course for military personnel at the Hanscom Air Force Base in Maryland, on "Weather Modification Techniques". The course outline explicitly contemplates the triggering of storms, hurricanes, etc. for military use.

Weather manipulation is the pre-emptive weapon par excellence. It can be directed against enemy countries or even "friendly nations", without their knowledge. Weather warfare constitutes a covert form of pre-emptive war. The manipulation of climate can be used to destabilize an enemy's economy, ecosystem and agriculture (e.g. North Korea or Cuba).

Needless to say it can trigger havoc in financial and commodity markets and can potentially be used as an instrument of "insider trade" for financial gain. It has the ability of destabilizing a country's institutions. Concurrently, the disruption in agriculture creates a greater dependency on food aid and imported grain staples from the US and other Western countries.

While there is no evidence of the use of weather warfare against rogue states, the policy guidelines on "weather intervention techniques" have already been established and the technology is fully operational.

Unusual Weather Occurrences Are Going on all around the World.

edit on 14-1-2011 by truthseeker2000 because: for editing

edit on 14-1-2011 by truthseeker2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by truthseeker2000
Now stereologist has nothing to say. He can lie only upto a certain limit but what now? I don't know what he will get by safeguarding dangerous secrets. I have clearly stated how Tesla is relevant here. Also he is unable to explain " Weather as a Force Multiplier " . If this does not mean Weather Modification then what is the Intention of US Air Force?


Thanks truthseeker2000 for sharing all that information, you certainly helped in expanding my knowledge base. The very existence of "Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025" paper is a humongous threat to the populations across the earth, and the intentions behind it are no lesser than pure devilish. This paper is directly related to HAARP and HAARP is a part of this weather modification technology any person can see that:
From the document "Weather as Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025" A Research Paper
Presented To Air Force 2025
by
Col Tamzy J. House
Lt Col James B. Near, Jr.
LTC William B. Shields (USA)
Maj Ronald J. Celentano
Maj David M. Husband
Maj Ann E. Mercer
Maj James E. Pugh
August 1996

"In the broadest sense, weather-modification can be divided into two major categories: suppression and intensification of weather patterns. In extreme cases, it might involve the creation of completely new weather
patterns, attenuation or control of severe storms, or even alteration of global climate on a far-reaching and/or long-lasting scale. In the mildest and least controversial cases it may consist of inducing or suppressing precipitation, clouds, or fog for short times over a small-scale region. Other low-intensity applications might include the alteration and/or use of near space as a medium to enhance communications, disrupt active or passive sensing, or other purposes. "

Regarding Weather modification:
"The essential ingredient of the weather-modification system is the set of intervention techniques used to modify the weather. The number of specific intervention methodologies is limited only by the imagination, but with few exceptions they involve infusing either energy or chemicals into the meteorological process in the right way, at the right place and time."

And for enhancing communications:
A number of methods have been explored or proposed to modify the ionosphere, including injection of
chemical vapors and heating or charging via electromagnetic radiation or particle beams (such as ions,
neutral particles, x-rays, MeV particles, and energetic electrons).

So, one can see here both for weather modification and enhancing communications either chemicals are sprayed into the atmosphere or electromagnetic radiation is used. Now lets examine what HAARP is about....

From Official HAARP website:
"HAARP is a scientific endeavor aimed at studying the properties and behavior of the ionosphere, with particular emphasis on being able to understand and use it to enhance communications and surveillance systems for both civilian and defense purposes. It does that by using high frequency electromagnetic beam transmitters which transmits these frequency directly into ionosphere, and from there they bounce back towards the earth penetrating ground or water. "
Link.

Any fool can analyze the similarities between the above statements and deduce that all of these are weather modification technologies and govt. is using them under the guise of enhancing communications. There is no need for even quoting the valuable research of Dr.Nick begich but i would still do it:

Small Input, Big Effect' HAARP zaps the ionosphere where it is relatively unstable. A point to remember is that the ionosphere is an active electrical shield protecting the planet from the constant bombardment of high-energy particles from space. This conducting plasma, along with Earth's magnetic field, traps the electrical plasma of space and holds it back from going directly to the earth's surface, says Charles Yost of Dynamic Systems, Leicester, North Carolina. "If the ionosphere is greatly disturbed, the atmosphere below is subsequently disturbed.". Another scientist interviewed said there is a super-powerful electrical connection between the ionosphere and the part of the atmosphere where our weather comes onstage, the lower atmosphere. One man-made electrical effect - power line harmonic resonance - causes fallout of charged particles from the Van Allen (radiation) belts, and the falling ions cause ice crystals (which precipitate rain clouds).

Link.

If we see the recent floods in brazil, srilinka, austrailia where hundreds have died and 1000s are missing. How scientists describe these events is low pressure areas being formed which caused high rainfall, but would they tell you what really caused formation of those low pressure areas, NO. Similarly magnetic reversal happened 7,80,000 years ago, scientists would tell us it was caused due to internal fluctuations in the flow of molten metal around the inner core, but would they tell you what caused those fluctuations, NO.

If anyone does not like ones opinion on particular subject.... He should say i respect your opinion and i think it is like this..... but some people have egoistical, offensive and authoritative way of putting things forward like:
YOU ARE LYING SHEESH
YOU SEEM TO HAVE LIMITED UNDERSTANDING and abusive way of expressing themselves.

edit on 14/1/11 by vinay86 because: (no reason given)

edit on 14/1/11 by vinay86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 



You have a naive faith in peer review

Obviously you don't understand how peer review works. You have a naive acceptance of anything that complains about the status quo.

What is interesting about Storetvedt, is that there are so few hits when I searched on him. He seems to be an outsider with a different idea. One of the places I found mention of GWT was a book review Storetvedt wrote where he gives his theory a bit of mention instead of reviewing the book. He is also mentioned by people trying to support the existence of Lemuria, a land bridge that had been hypothesized to explain fossil distributions. Lemuria was made obsolete by plate tectonics.

Let's read some commentary on Stretvedt
www.geolsoc.org.uk...

I now see in Karsten Storetvedt’s descriptions of the Caribbean a similar problem. His arguments come straight off the back of a reading of the commentary of James and Lorente. He states: “as a wide range of regional and larger scale geophysical and geological information is omitted from their re-evaluation, the arena is open for alternative non-plate tectonic solutions.” The arena would be well and truly shut had he a full appreciation of the available facts about the Caribbean region at the level of detail required. Not once does Professor Storetvedt talk specifically about the ages of rocks, of their chemistry, their inferred tectonic setting and actually challenge what is wrong with the current interpretations. He has not seen beyond his own model of wrench tectonics and ridden roughshod over what we know. Indeed, what of all the other proofs, aside from his bugbear, palaeomagnetism, that show Plate Tectonic theory to be rather sound? What is wrong with what radiometric dating or geochemistry tells us? Or the stories trapped in the sedimentary record, in faunal associations, ophiolites, high-pressure belts and suture zones, even in geophysical surveys?


It seems that Storetvedt's criticism are simply an effort to prop up his theory, which is not being accepted.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by truthseeker2000
 



Can you answer now?

I have answered several times. Apparently, you are unable to read or accept that this paper has nothing whatsoever to do with HAARP. The only thing you have is a list of opinions by others that think this is related to HAARP. So what! Other people with wishful thinking or delusional paranoia is not evidence. Your claims are based on repeating what someone claims instead of going to the source. For example, you link to a place that claims a person made a particular type of statement. Go to the person in question and show where this is stated.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by vinay86
 



This paper is directly related to HAARP and HAARP is a part of this weather modification technology any person can see that

Oh reaaly? Can you point to where in the paper it is related to HAARP? I am calling your bluff.

Nothing you provided makes a clear link.


Any fool can analyze the similarities between the above statements and deduce that all of these are weather modification technologies and govt. is using them under the guise of enhancing communications.

So you think that the ionosphere is where weather occurs? You need to go read about weather.


If we see the recent floods in brazil, srilinka, austrailia where hundreds have died and 1000s are missing. How scientists describe these events is low pressure areas being formed which caused high rainfall, but would they tell you what really caused formation of those low pressure areas, NO.

So why have these areas and other areas around the world experienced these same sort of catastrophic floods long before HAARP was built?


but some people have egoistical, offensive and authoritative way of putting things forward

Some people tell lies. That is who they are and how they act. Some people do not understand things and make up stories. Some people do not want to do research and learn. That is who they are.

Take the flood claims. Look at the regions involved. How long has flooding been common there? Has it been as long as records have been kept or is this new? Ever try testing an idea before spouting off? I know you are capable of thinking and evaluating these issues. Just take the time to do it.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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being a firm supporter of KISS (keep it simple stupid)...i found these halfway decent
animations that rely on the physical record as evidence of pole-shifts (magnetic anomalies)


in this Sea-Floor-Spreading evidence & physical record...we can see for the last ~billion years
there is no evidence of any swift crustal plate movements that allows the slippage of the whole
Earth Crust to mysteriously slide anywhere near 15-45º degress from the present latitude
or longitude locations of say Paris/London/NYC




I wish to introduce this web site, and particularly the 3 listed animations for your viewing:

highered.mcgraw-hill.com...#


Fig. 4.12 - Seafloor Spreading (115.0K)
Fig. 4.14 - Marine Magnetic Anomalies (61.0K)
Fig. 4.16 - Origin of Magnetic Anomalies (46.0K)
Fig. 4.18 - Age of the Sea Floor (59.0K)




Now the scoffers will counter that the outer crust will retain its present condition, intact...
that the sudden slippage of the crust will be a uniform sliding of the Earth outer shell over the interior magma
and that is the reason no breakup of the tectonic plates all throughout the Earth history.

others will say that the centemeters of sea-floor-spreading per year, per century, per millenium, per eon
is not being measured correctly...that the linear 'tree ring' analogy is flawed.


i see absolutely no mile wide increment of sea-floor-spreading, each and every sea-floor increment
is within a very uniform size of movement... and the magnetic anomilies are in a ratio that supports
the slow, centimeters per year movement of the plates.

any-all theories must be able to account for these geological features, or explain them differently...
so much for a 3 day long shift of the crust and the flip of the magnetic poles...its more fantasy
than reality



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by vinay86
 

So you think that the ionosphere is where weather occurs? You need to go read about weather.


Did i have ever said weather is formed in ionosphere, you probably have read nothing about HAARP. It transmits high frequency electromagnetic beam in the ionosphere that lifts the targeted area of the ionosphere due to heating up of the particles in it. As a result a depression region is formed in the ionosphere which is reflected all the way to the troposphere (cloud formation occurs), water vapor accumulates in this depression in the troposphere and condenses into water droplets and when they become heavy they fall into the targeted area causing heavy rainfall. HAARP is only one technology that came in to public view, and i am sure there many others like it in govt. arsenals, and i am not claiming that all floods are caused by HAARP or modification of weather.

Now if you have any valid proof that high frequency electromagnetic beams have no impact on electrically charged particles in ionosphere than reply back, just saying no would not help in supporting your counter claims.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by vinay86
 



Did i have ever said weather is formed in ionosphere, you probably have read nothing about HAARP. It transmits high frequency electromagnetic beam in the ionosphere that lifts the targeted area of the ionosphere due to heating up of the particles in it. As a result a depression region is formed in the ionosphere which is reflected all the way to the troposphere (cloud formation occurs), water vapor accumulates in this depression in the troposphere and condenses into water droplets and when they become heavy they fall into the targeted area causing heavy rainfall.

Where did you get this info? LOL.

Where does this silly claim come that the ionosphere is "lifted"? Also, where do you get the idea that "a depression region is formed in the ionosphere which is reflected all the way to the troposphere"?

Just because you might have read this someplace does not make it true.

The ionosphere is as it sounds composed of ions. It lies some 50km to 1000km in space. To get an idea of how high that is consider the ISS. It is at around 350km up placing the ISS right in the F band of the ionosphere. So you are telling me that changes to outer space by HAARP affect the weather? Are you serious?



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 



You have a naive faith in peer review

Obviously you don't understand how peer review works. You have a naive acceptance of anything that complains about the status quo.


Not at all, having no territory to defend I simply go with what seems to make the most sense.
As for peer review - consensus Geology is a club, where dissenting opinions are simply not welcome, that is human nature and organised institutional academia is no different than any other group of people.

Most of what is touted as the conventional geologic picture comes from the interpretation of very messy data sets, much like Climatology - the truth is they are simply ignoring inconvenient data and interpreting it in selective ways.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 03:55 AM
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reply to post by stereologist
 



Now if you have any valid proof that high frequency electromagnetic beams have no impact on electrically charged particles in ionosphere than reply back, just saying no would not help in supporting your counter claims.


Once again you have said nothing about what is being asked to you, and instead you just played with words. You have not supported your anecdotal claims by anything, and you are just acting like a talking head. The atmospheric layers of earth are not separated from each other by a large distance, instead they are held together closely by earths gravitation field. And hence if one layer is affected, the same happens to every other layer. Another failed attempt by you, just like this one:


Animals have been subjected to all sorts of EM frequencies in safety tests and in tests of animal navigation. Tests include putting animals into extremely low magnetic environments. They didn't die.

Really, where is your evidence on that, there is plenty of proof out there for EM fields affecting animals.
www.earthportals.com...

If you are a scientist than you are an absolute disgrace to that profession. Scientists have humbleness and are good hearted. But you seems to have lost both of them. As shown by your this reply:


Offering these news reports about floods that kill 12 and 13 shows how ridiculous it is to use weather warfare. It is not focused and of limited value. It's laughable to think that a storm that kills off a handful of people that are unknowns is useful.

Loss of life is loss of life, whether one or thousands, but you don't care about it..... Elites have infinite resources in their hands they dont care while wasting it on killing one or many.


I don't believe in the NWO or alien invasions.


But you dont believe in elites, globalists, NWO etc. As shown by your above comment. So why are you even here on this site, don't you know the meaning of "Top Secret" in above top secret it is what you dont find in scientific journals or papers. There are plenty of scientific forums out there in the internet, go preach your scientific truth on them.
edit on 15/1/11 by vinay86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 





Your claims are based on repeating what someone claims instead of going to the source. For example, you link to a place that claims a person made a particular type of statement. Go to the person in question and show where this is stated.


In realty, HAARP is Elite’s Business . According to Dr. Nick Begich, in the early 90’s “records showed that HAARP was part of a global cooperative effort which included the USSR, Canada, Japan, Greenland, Norway, Finland, New Zealand and others”. HAARP is presented to general public as an innocent research project. In realty it is a military project. No One can Prove anything wrong in HAARP because very crucial part of the documents are still not available to the Public.

What do the military planners have in mind? Technical Memorandum 195, an unpublished 613-page compilation concerning the HAARP Workshop on Ionospheric Heating Diagnostics, (held in 1991 at Hanscom Air Force Base, Massachusetts) includes this piece of information: the desired level of power for HAARP is 100 billion watts, vastly greater than what the military is now claiming as a goal. Other documents from the military were openly published and refer to power levels between one and ten gigawatts (billion watts).

Government Lies
What we do know is that the Government has continued to lie about the project. They hid the interaction of the original twelve patents and also kept one particular document - PL-GP Technical Memorandum no.195 so secret it has been kept from the public's eye to this day. It explains the military applications of the project were supposed to be sanitized before public release.

John Heckscher (HAARP program manager) was quoted as saying in order to achieve the goals set by the Eastlund patents, you would need 100 billion watts of energy. According to Technical Memorandum 195, "there is a call by the ionospheric effects division of the U.S. Air Force Phillips Laboratory for HAARP to reach a peak power output of 100 billion watts." BTW, Technical Memorandum 195 is a 600+ page report given at the HAARP Workshop on Ionospheric Heating Diagnostics (held in 1991 at Hanscom Air Force Base, Massachusetts) that was never published.

There's definitely shady business going on. Government contractors with black budget projects in excess of $800 million hold the patents, secret documents say the Air Force wants this thing to generate 100 billion watts of energy, which happens to be the number needed to generate the effects of the Eastlund patents are more than just coincidences.



The most important omission of all was the contents of the document PL/GP Technical Memorandum No. 195, which fell into Manning's hands and which contains essential information the reader cannot look up, since it is unavailable to the public.


Capabilities Of Haarp


The most important omission of all was the contents of the document PL/GP Technical Memorandum No. 195, which fell into Manning's hands and which contains essential information the reader cannot look up, since it is unavailable to the public. The essence of this memorandum should have been reproduced verbatim.

Seven capabilities of HAARP are listed on pp. 146-7, viz:

• HAARP could provide a tool to replace the electromagnetic pulse produced by nuclear explosions carried out in the thin upper atmosphere;
• it could replace the Pentagon's huge Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) submarine communication system;
• it could be used as an over-the-horizon radar system;
• the highly ionized ionosphere would reflect communications that normally go through it;
• it could provide wide-area earth-penetrating tomography which, with computer systems, would be of use in verifying some arms control agreements;
• it could provide a tool for geographical probing for oil, gas, and mineral deposits over a wide area;
• it could be used to detect low-level incoming aircraft and cruise missiles.

Some of the above capabilities require transmitters other than the HAARP transmitter. HAARP would set up a fully (or almost fully) ionized layer. The other transmitter(s) might be located far from HAARP and would beam their fury or messages at the ionized layer. The electromagnetic pulse could be a reflection from the ionosphere emanating from a quite distant high-powered pulsed radar transmitter, or from several such transmitters. ……..

Implications For World Security And Arms Control

The strongest objections likely to be raised against HAARP are:

• that the ionosphere is not something an elite group may rightfully alter, especially in ways that might not be reversible. Very high energizing of particles could result in irreversible loss to the planetary atmosphere;
• that it is unacceptable to block other people's communication - even testing such a technique might be viewed as an act of war;
• the electromagnetic pulse is unacceptable for the same reason;
• there appears to be a real danger of weather modification stemming from HAARP used at high power, which would likely violate the Environmental Modification Treaty; there is not enough scientific information yet to assess this possibility; the connection between the ionosphere and weather or climate is difficult to assess;
• the primary HAARP transmission itself is highly dangerous to anyone intercepting the HAARP beam, including the side lobes. As the HAARP beam progressively ionizes the upper atmosphere, it will itself increasingly be reflected back downwards. These reflected waves also are likely to be dangerous and could produce effects analogous to those arising from improperly shielded microwave ovens. There is likely a cancer hazard. Birds and other residents within a few hundred kilometres of HAARP may be subject to radiation that could cause them harm. Health organizations should be involved;
• there is a whole range of biological ELF effects that will stem from the ELF communications system or a similar system. It is known, but not well enough known, that there are ELF frequency ranges within which people's brains and therefore their behavior is affected. These are known as beta, alpha, theta, and delta waves. The whole question of the effects of such slowly alternating fields (not waves) is tackled in Chapter 22. This area will fascinate readers and may be a central part of the Pentagon's attempt to develop a biological warfare capability, so that the question needs to be raised whether HAARP violates the convention forbidding such warfare in its ELF applications. ……….

Next Steps

…draw HAARP and all its associated programs to the attention of the NonProliferation, Arms Control and Disarmament Division of our Department of Foreign Affairs. They already have heard of it, but they don't know anything about it and this is hardly surprising considering the dearth of clear scientific information about the military applications. Legal opinions are needed on the implications of HAARP as a violator of international agreements, as mentioned in this article, but also probably others. In addition, HAARP should be drawn to the attention of the United Nations' Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space.

But first we need a thorough scientific study of HAARP that would assess technically what is a real danger and what is not going to be of any political significance. Since the HAARP antenna is dangerous per se, it is unlikely that opposition to HAARP will disappear. In fact, the dangers of the high-power transmissions themselves should be the first point of challenge.


edit on 15-1-2011 by truthseeker2000 because: for editing



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 



As for peer review - consensus Geology is a club, where dissenting opinions are simply not welcome, that is human nature and organised institutional academia is no different than any other group of people.

Thanks for making it abundantly clear that you have not a clue as to how peer review works. You are so far off the mark. You might consider going to a university and watching someone defend a thesis or even defend a thesis proposal.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by vinay86
 



The atmospheric layers of earth are not separated from each other by a large distance, instead they are held together closely by earths gravitation field. And hence if one layer is affected, the same happens to every other layer.

You have no idea what you are talking about. The ionosphere is not well connected to the troposphere. Your notions here are based on personal guesses. I grant you another F.


Really, where is your evidence on that, there is plenty of proof out there for EM fields affecting animals.

The question on how animals navigate during migrations involves all sorts of tests from low to high intensity fields to see if the migration ability is affected. Nothing died. You contention is that this poppycock site is legitimate. I am giggling because the site discusses the influence of sound waves, not EM on mammals. Next time at least pick a site that addresses the topic at hand.


If you are a scientist than you are an absolute disgrace to that profession. Scientists have humbleness and are good hearted.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I know plenty of scientists and some are humble and other are not. Some are good hearted and others are not. Despite the wide range of personal attitudes and demeanor they act as scientists.


Loss of life is loss of life, whether one or thousands, but you don't care about it..... Elites have infinite resources in their hands they dont care while wasting it on killing one or many.

You brought up the notion that weapons were being to kill people. My statement is not about morals or ethics, but rather about the idea that a weapon system is useful if it kills very few people and does so indiscriminately. I'm sorry that this is a hard concept to understand. Maybe you do understand and are simply using a poor straw man argument when faced with the reality that your claims are another F grade.

You round out this mistake laden post with a request for censorship. This is a repeated request from those that realize they are wrong and have been wrong for quite some time.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by truthseeker2000
 


This is all copy and paste from other sources - sources which are probably baloney sites. No wonder. Being gullible is very common. You are normal in being as gullible as you are.

For example, part of what you posted here is stolen from the crop circle research web site. You claim it was not published and then you claim to be able to reveal parts of the unpublished material. That's just laughable. Where did this come from, some hoax site you like to read and have accepted hook, line, and sinker.

I suggest you go to the original person and instead you continue to report what third parties have made up.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by stereologist
 




I suggest you go to the original person and instead you continue to report what third parties have made up.


Why should I go to Eastlund or John Heckscher (HAARP program manager) who are custodians of secrecy when the whistle-blowers scientist from Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and Livermore Nuclear Weapons Lab are already exposing the Hidden Secrets.

Leuren Moret is an independent scientist. She worked for 5 years for the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and 2 years for the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Lab. She blew the whistle about those laboratories, was harassed for that whistle-blowing, but has not stopped learning about, speaking up and educating others to speak up against the horrible effects of US weapons and the members of the US military itself.

Background


Leuren Moret is a former scientific laboratory employee known for her study of the adverse health and environmental effects of depleted uranium. Moret worked for two periods at two U.S. nuclear weapons laboratories, including Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Moret earned her Bachelor of Science in Geology at University of California, Davis in 1968, and her Master of Arts in Near Eastern Studies from University of California, Berkeley in 1978.



Leuren Moret Biography: Independent Scientist; Expert Witness at the Tokyo International Tribunal for War Crimes in Afghanistan; Speaker at the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Conference

Planet Earth As Weapon and Target LEUREN MORET_World Affairs, The Journal of International Issues v.9, n.4, Winter 2005

PART I: HAARP Intro: Space-based environmental WMD with Leuren Moret
LISTEN TO AUDIO ARCHIVE NOW (MP3)

Part II: HAARP & TECTONIC (Earthquake) Warfare with Leuren Moret
LISTEN TO AUDIO ARCHIVE NOW (MP3)


PART III: HAARP & Weather Modification/Weather Warfare with Leuren Moret
LISTEN TO AUDIO ARCHIVE NOW (MP3)


PART IV: HAARP as a space-based weapon & Weather Modifier with Leuren Moret
LISTEN TO AUDIO ARCHIVE NOW (MP3)


PART V: HAARP: Arctic Ice Cap Melt Down, Controlled Ecocide, and Depopulation with Leuren
LISTEN TO AUDIO ARCHIVE NOW (MP3)


PART VI: HAARP & Mind Control in the 2008 Canada & USA Elections with Leuren
LISTEN TO AUDIO ARCHIVE NOW (MP3)


HAARPing the Americas: Exploiting Global Tectonic Mineral Belts
LISTEN TO AUDIO ARCHIVE NOW (MP3)


US HAARP Weapon Triggered Haiti Earthquake: Shock & Awe And Disaster Capitalism
LISTEN TO AUDIO ARCHIVE NOW (MP3)


KHEN - Seismic warfare - Haiti and Chile earthquake LISTEN TO AUDIO ARCHIVE NOW (MP3)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by vinay86
 

You have no idea what you are talking about. The ionosphere is not well connected to the troposphere. Your notions here are based on personal guesses. I grant you another F.


Where is your proof far that, you are the scientific authority here, point me towards the relevant papers that states this.


The question on how animals navigate during migrations involves all sorts of tests from low to high intensity fields to see if the migration ability is affected. Nothing died. You contention is that this poppycock site is legitimate. I am giggling because the site discusses the influence of sound waves, not EM on mammals. Next time at least pick a site that addresses the topic at hand.


Once again you repeated yourself, you have laid your own beliefs and not supported it with any scientific article link a failed attempt on your part, at-least i am putting something forward despite being a non scientific person. Here is this another article saying that.

Pflomm [138] stated that when a frog's heart was placed in a shortwave field, the beat became slower and that contractions lessened with the diastolic beat finally ceasing; but if the field were switched off, the heart gradually resumed its activity. Hill and Taylor [76], on the other hand, repeated Pflomm's work, showing that weak, high-frequency fields at wavelengths of 600, 22, and 6 m would increase the excitability of a nerve-muscle preparation, whereas stronger currents produced a depression of excitability. They showed that similar effects could be produced by a hot wire placed near the nerve and concluded that the mode of action of the high-frequency current on the nerve-muscle preparation is thermal. These researchers also demonstrated that the effects observed by Pflomm on the frog's heart were identical to that obtained when the frog's heart was warmed by conventional means. The first study on the effects of microwaves on living mammalian tissue was conducted by the Armed Forces in answer to a morale problem by Daily [29], Follis [45], and Lidman and Cohn [109]. The studies were meant to dispel fears of possible ill effects of EM radiation upon personnel connected with radar work. The reports, which indicated no ill effects, were concerned only with the exposure of animals to radar pulses. Later, Richardson et ale [145] were able to induce lenticular opacities in the eyes of rabbits and dogs exposed at a distance of 5.08 cm. Daily et ale [31] also were able to produce cataracts and other eye-tissue damage in rabbits, and Imig et ale [83] were able to produce testicular degeneration in rats exposed to the same generator. Oldendorf [128] performed one of the earliest studies on the effect of microwaves on the CNS.

Link.

Look there is another one:

Effects # Animal cells that divide rapidly suffer the most serious damage during acute exposure. Cells in bone marrow and lymphatic tissue, for example, are especially vulnerable, as are the fast-dividing cells in the lining of the mammalian gastrointestinal tract. Massive doses of radiation can cause diarrhea, vomiting, internal bleeding, anemia, exhaustion, permanent sterilization and death. Exposure to high levels can also cause permanent damage to cellular DNA that could potentially result in cancer. The effects in mice have perhaps been studied most extensively, since mice were used in many experiments with radiation.

Link.

Once again it is proven you are a big fail in preaching us your false science .

edit on 16/1/11 by vinay86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by vinay86
 


Let's get a recap here of the discussion since your response here is not in line with what is being discussed.

Here is what vinay86 posted:

There are death of animals, birds being reported from many parts of the world, i believe all those birds and animals are dead due to tampering with earth natural terrestrial electromagnetic frequency, they have the technology to do that and much more.


Here is my response:

Animals have been subjected to all sorts of EM frequencies in safety tests and in tests of animal navigation. Tests include putting animals into extremely low magnetic environments. They didn't die.


My response is in regards to vinay86 discussing EM levels found in the world or levels within that range. The claim here is natural EM.

Now what you have done is refer to papers which are off topic. If I wanted to see if EM could be fatal I could simply place an animal in a microwave oven. But that is a failure since it is not natural and not the sort of EM that you originally discussed.

Of course EM affects biological tissue. That is how plants capture light to grow. That is how matter interacts, i.e. chemistry. The question is not whether EM affects tissue, but whether your original contention that deaths are due to tampering with natural EM is valid.



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