Obama's Birth certificate: Hawaii Governor Abercrombie's Birther mission

Originally posted by Sinnthia
So far you have made assertions and failed to back them up.

you mean like the Obama team? what's different? specifics please.

Now you are calling me stupid for questioning your claims?

lie

So how stupid does that make people questioning Obama's claims?

irrelevant

Or, are your claims worth more than anyone else's claims?

what claims? i question and all questions are worthy an answer.

I am not sure how your failure to back up anything or make a factual statement gives you the right to insult me on a personal basis but if that makes you feel good, then by all means. Insult some stranger on a forum. Whatever your friends think makes you look cool I guess.

~ classic inferiority complex

You do not believe the claim of the president's birth because you have not seen sufficient evidence.
You expect people to just believe any claim you make with no evidence.

no, i am not Obama

The idea that others need to show evidence above and beyond proof in order to back up a claim while your claims should be taken at face value is indeed a dichotomy of beliefs.

jibberish

factless??? prove it.

Um...no. You made the claims, you need to provide the facts. That is how reality works.

actually, Pelosi and company made the 'claim' minus adequate substantiation ... they need to provide the facts.

that's all i have time to read right now, got things to do ... will follow up later.

New eligibility challenge reaches Supreme Court Attorney calls for recusal of Obama judicial appointees Read more: New eligibility challenge reaches Supreme Court www.wnd.com...

This will be heard on jan14th - and ask that Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor, be excluded. both of whom were appointed by Obama.

Read more: New eligibility challenge reaches Supreme Court www.wnd.com...

S & F for you my friend. This "birther" nonsense is ridiculous, the funny thing is, the only person who was born outside of the US in the 2008 Presidential election was John McCain---maybe we should ask for satellite imagery of his birthplace, how can we be so sure he was born in the Canal zone? Of course he's white and doesn't have a weird name, so that's never going to draw any attention.

The "birthers" will never be happy...they ask for a long-form birth certificate, and even if they got one, it would just be some massive government conspiracy. At this point, what's the point for Obama to even discuss these rumors anymore--these people have been proven as quacks 10 times over!

You see, they did throw the question at McCain and he instantly released all his documents in full, that is why it was never really an issue, he never let it get that far. And for the record Im not a fan of McCain.

COLB is sometimes except-able, other times its not. My wife is a counselor in an elementary school, COLB is not good enough as its a high illegal immigrant area for kids that just came over the mexican border. So they require full or you dont get it. My current employer did this a year or so ago as well, I have worked there for almost 10yrs and its a big corporation. Every employee had to bring 2 forms of ID and one had to be BC, COLB was not good enough as I brought mine as it was the first I found, I had to order another BC for myself just for this one request as I could not find mine.

The other big issue is that Hawaii at that time would give a COLB to anyone that requested it and lived in Hawaii at the time, this is fact. No other state at this time would give one for simply asking for one, but they did. Add in the questionable schooling and college info that is being suppressed and you have the reason why there are so many questions on this. Obama is creating this confusion and could very easily stop it completely. So either he likes the controversy or hes hiding something, it may not even be as bad as we think, but there is something he doesnt want known plain and simple.

I will agree that I would think that the republicans or even Hillary would have ousted him on this if it was possible to prove. Unless they wanted him to step into a storm and fail miserably. I think just about anyone would have failed this go around, things were on the road to getting jacked up, so let him take the fall. Who knows, but to say he has release "enough" is not even close, there ARE too many questions left unanswered, ALL other presidents had things released on them they didnt want let out, why is his past so important to hide?

I really dont care either way, he will be gone 2012 for sure so it will not matter, nothing will come of this before the next election and hes already sealed his fate, or somebody made sure he did for him.

I really have no dog in this fight, I think all the politicians are corrupt and Obama or McCain, we'd still be hauling azz towards the edge of the cliff.

BUT

It never ceases to amaze me how pro-Obama folks are so willing to throw out the rule of law in support of this president. I have never seen one post that states, "I loooove Obama, but these allegations would completely undermine his right to hold office. I would be sad to see it true, but the rule of law trumps what anyone wants."

Obamites put on blinders and want to believe birthers are just racist, Obama-hating right wingers. I think alot of birthers might just be constitutionalists that actually care about the rule of law.

Birthers have some very serious, legitimate constitutional concerns. Not just the 'born in Hawaii' issue, but on several points of complex citizenship law. Not only do the facts point to some real problems, but Obama's unprecedented lack of disclosure naturally leads people to ask more questions as well.

Pointing to McCain and mocking the process is a pathetic straw man argument. His citizenship case is very clear and accepted under citizenship law. Born to an active duty American citizen, on an overseas US base is in no way comparable to Obama's complex citizenship history. Bringing this up only serves to undermine your credibility in the dialog. I really have yet to see a pro-Obama person give a logical, concise and fact-driven response to the issue. Again, something that might make others ask more questions.

In the bigger picture, I believe the MSM and government has dropped the case (and turned against birthers) because even if it isn't true, the general public would lose the last shreds of confidence in the government; Allowing a person to take the highest office in the country without proper vetting is an embarrassment to both parties, and symptomatic of the larger failure of our government.

I don't have any skin in this game, but it's quite obvious that Obama is hiding "something". He's failed to release a TON of documents, and has spent MILLIONS to keep them sealed. No long-form birth certificate. No school records. Nothing. Only that silly computer generated "Certificate of Live Birth". That's it. His sister, who was born in Indonesia, has the same damn document, so that crap he released is a sham.

For those who say, "If this is try, why didn't the Clintons bring it up?". That's simple. They didn't know. Anymore than they knew John Edwards was sleeping around.

I'd hate to think that the "Birthers" could be right, but until proven otherwise, the questions are valid. And, the whole "birther" issue goes MUCH deeper than whether or not he was born in the U.S.

1) His father was a British subject, so Obama would have had DUAL-Citizenship at birth. Thus, not "natural born"
2) He attended school in Indonesia. Something that ONLY Indonesian citizens were allowed to do. Indonesia did not allow dual-citizenship, so he would have had to denounce his U.S. Citizenship.
3) He traveled to Pakistan when travel was banned to U.S. Citizens. What passport did he use?
4) What did he say his citizenship was, when he applied to college?

All of these questions are valid. Where there is smoke, there is fire.

When Lt. Col. Terry Lakin was sent to military prison, Obama could have stopped it. Lakin was an honorable man, serving multiple tours. His military service was so good, people who knew him believed he was in line for a star on his shoulder. However, he simply asked a question, and has now become a political prisoner. Why would Obama let a decorated medial doctor go to prison, rather than produce a simple long form birth certificate? Why?

reply to post by navy_vet_stg3


You know what amazes me? The same people that tell us to STFU, and leave obama alone, we have no right to question him about his eligility; Are generally the ones that tell us to STFU when we object to checkpoints, and TSA crap, because if we have nothing to hide, we should submit to it. It is so pathetic, people expect normal people to comply with unconstitutional crap, while not holding our reps to the same standard... WTF are people thinking? If I was driving through FL, it is perfectly acceptable that I should have to prove my innocence, yet it is so unacceptable, to hold our president to the same standards? We as free people, should prove our innocence, yet people we hire to run the country should be assumed innocent until proven otherwise? Us peons should mind our own damn business, while LEO are allowed to consider us guilty until we prove otherwise? Screw that crap.....

Originally posted by Sinnthia
I have a unicorn in my garage, next to my invisible dragon. Prove me wrong.

What would be wrong with agreeing? That would only mean that we came to a conclusion we both liked. That could entail me coming to your way of thinking you realize? You would not even want me to believe what you believe? Sounds like little interest in the truth and just political baiting to me.

Maybe I should stick with posters who are short on personal attacks and long on hoping we can find a solution. Good luck though.

If you ever find that evidence, it might help.

well ok, i've read the rest of this nonsense ... thanks to the Blues whoooopin' the Coyotes (hockey) or i'd be snoozin already.

so, let me just say, your garage motif is of no interest to me whatsoever. however, it is not my job to 'prove you wrong' ... rather it is YOUR job to convince me of your claim. (unicorn in your garage)

Not sure what evidence you think is necessary. The Obama campaign provided all the evidence necessary. The COLB is the evidence or are you just that confused about the issue? In 1961 Hawai'i, persons who received 'long form' documentation were those born IN a hospital, period. All others were provided an earlier form of the COLB to certify that a birth was Registered in Hawai'i ... NOT that a birth occurred in Hawai'i. Since the Obama handlers assert that this is the Only form (even though 2 have surfaced), therein lies the truth.

Why is the 'long form' so important ?? Because it is the ONLY proof that any person was born IN America or one of her possessions. Without one of those, you are not 'natural born' which is required for the POTUS position as stipulated in the US Constitution, Article 2, Section 1 ~~ "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution -- [none of these folks are alive], shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Now, i'm not sure where your confusion lies, however, it is quite clear to me and many others, the simple fact the 'long form' is lacking provides ample evidence to demand further clarification.

Our (you and i) reaching an agreement isn't a specific goal of mine. I can agree to disagree but i do prefer less of the personal attacks. Should you change your opinion, so be it ... i am not likely to change mine until Constitutional requirements are met.

You can 'stick' with whichever posters you choose. No offense taken here. You engaged me and i responded, thanks for the dialogue.

Disagreeing is fine by me because there is nothing you could say that would change my mind.
I am a natural born American who understands my Constitution. **** Happy New Year ****

Edit to add: The current "claim" is: Obama is a natural born citizen ... ok, convince me ... i am pliable.

Originally posted by AquaImage13
So us "birthers" are "wacko" for wanting to know the truth about a man who is now our president?

No, "birthers" are wacko for wanting the president to jump through hoops of fire for them.

What is "truth" again? Aside from Reagan (who released his origianl long form birth certificate after his presidency) and Obama I have not seen any other president present a birth certificate of proof. Heck, I have yet to across a person in my life time who has their original long form birth certificate let alone uses it. I still have my long form birth certificate, althought I am the only one I know and I have never for the life of me used it for anything.

Originally posted by blamethegreys
It never ceases to amaze me how pro-Obama folks are so willing to throw out the rule of law in support of this president.

Really? This amazes you? Do you respect our law and our constitution?

Obamites put on blinders and want to believe birthers are just racist, Obama-hating right wingers.

Well most birthers are racist and/or partisan in nature. It's just a fact. The fact that there was this silence about long form birth certificates through so many presidents until this one came it? It's very evident.

I think alot of birthers might just be constitutionalists

I disagree.

Birthers have some very serious, legitimate constitutional concerns.

Well if they (you) have legitimate constitutional concerns it should not be so hard to back your arguments with actual constitutional references.

but on several points of complex citizenship law.

To which we have gone down numerous times. But please, list them for us again.

Originally posted by blamethegreys
I think alot of birthers might just be constitutionalists

now you're talking common sense. Most of those demanding clarification are Not 'extremist birthers' as indicated. I take great offense to that depiction of any fellow American exercising their Constitutional right.

And, it certainly is our right to demand proof of qualification. As for 'other' POTUS of the past ... their lineage/citizenship/foreign status was not questionable like Obama. Exactly how does that matter anyway and why do ppl keep asking such pointless questions ? They are not the problem, Obama, Pelosi and Co. are.

Tim Adams, former senior elections clerk for the city and county of Honolulu, states that Barack Obama was “definitely” not born in Hawaii, and that no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate even exists for the president in the Aloha State. “As of the time I was in Hawaii working in the elections office,” said Adams, “we had many people who were asking about the eligibility of Senator Obama to be president. I was told at the time there is no long-form birth record, which would have been the case if President Obama was born in [a] hospital in Honolulu. T… www.barackobamavideos.net...

What this all demonstrates to me is just what a grip the combined NWO factions do have on the media.


In polls 60% of Americans doubt Obama was born in the USA - despite MSM having declared this a 'hands off' issue from the start, pouring nothing but ridicule and declaring it a fringe nonesense issue.

The fix is clearly in and the Obama presidency is obviously the result of a deal between the two factions.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian, in response to blamethegreys

BTG: It never ceases to amaze me how pro-Obama folks are so willing to throw out the rule of law in support of this president.

SG: Really? This amazes you? Do you respect our law and our constitution?

BTG: Obamites put on blinders and want to believe birthers are just racist, Obama-hating right wingers.

SG: Well most birthers are racist and/or partisan in nature. It's just a fact. The fact that there was this silence about long form birth certificates through so many presidents until this one came it? It's very evident.

BTG: I think alot of birthers might just be constitutionalists

SG: I disagree.

BTG: Birthers have some very serious, legitimate constitutional concerns.

SG: Well if they (you) have legitimate constitutional concerns it should not be so hard to back your arguments with actual constitutional references.

BTG: ...but on several points of complex citizenship law.

SG: To which we have gone down numerous times. But please, list them for us again.

I'm too hung over this AM to format this junk to look pretty:

Point#1: I do respect our law and constitution, yes. And the unclear eligibility of a sitting president is probably something that said president should want to clear up. And again, I really don't consider myself a birther, I simply identify with the general public who wonder about it.

Point#2: I think you are right about the political motives regarding the most vocal birthers. I still think that playing the racism card is the wrong move. I just don't see it, and haven't in anything presented here or the MSM by birthers.

Point#3: Opinions are like azzholes...you got one, I got one. At least we can both poop.

Point#4: Dear God there is no way in hell I am going to research and quote constitutional/Citizenship law this morning!

Point#5: See Point#4

Happy New Year!

Originally posted by blamethegreys
Point#1: I do respect our law and constitution, yes. And the unclear eligibility of a sitting president is probably something that said president should want to clear up.

So you respect our constitution but you yourself cannot bring up anything from the constitution to point to the president lacking eligibility requirements? You claimed his eligibility was unclear, and how so? No other president has ever presented their long form birthcertificates. I assumed Reagans birth certificare was a long form but in actual fact his one was signed in 1942, Reagan was born in 1911. When we talk about the constitution, we should recognize that eligibility is left up mostly to congress and the electoral colleage on December 15th, verification is done through the house speaker.

There is no evidence whatso ever from you or anybody else to point to the president not meeting constitutional eligibility criteria. I've heard people like you constantly insist that this president is "missing" something for you, but that simply is not enough prove him ineligible.

Point#2: I think you are right about the political motives regarding the most vocal birthers. I still think that playing the racism card is the wrong move.

I believe it is a necessary move. I am sure there are afew concerned citizens who have latched onto this conspiracy who are neither partisan or racist but they are very few. Racism and partisanship are the fuels of the birth conspiracy. You are more likely to find birthers old numerous other issues about the president and its just fact. These are strong motives for them to insist he is somehow different from other presidents when he in actual fact not.

Point#4: Dear God there is no way in hell I am going to research and quote constitutional/Citizenship law this morning!

That it fine, but please feel free to come back with some later on. I've heard them all though.

Amerikans just need to relax about this birth certificate nonsense.

The President is just a figure-head, selected by our hidden masters. Our masters can install whomever they please, they apparently do not require "natural born" status, and it's their opinion that matters, not ours.

As many know, Sotero/Obama is certainly not the first. Johann Adolf Eisenhauer (aka Dwight D. Eisenhower), bastard child of Emperor Franz Josef I von Hapsburg, Austria-Hungary, was likely the "first", although not necessarily.

Most agree that he made a fine general, and good president too. So what if he wasn't "American"?

JR

reply to post by Southern Guardian


This is what I mean by 'phony arguments' - the American people do not need to 'prove' Obama is inelligible, especially since he has made that impossible, by hiddng and sealing every single document pertaining to his past, that might reveal what nationality or name he was using at the time.

It is up to Obama to prove to the Ameican people that he is in fact elligible! - especially when 60% doubt it!

And just because Nancy Pelosi signed a certificate of elligibilty - that she sent to Hawaii only, ( but cut out that very clause on the one she sent to all the other states) - does not constitute any sort of proof whatso-ever.

I think it sick the extreme leftist Obamatrons call everyone a racist if they criticize or question anything about their Messiah. It only adds fuel to the fire that something is being hidden, and they have a feeling inside too, but will supress it in an offense way as much as they can. These neo-Marxists believe anyone who has a darker skin tone is not required to obey or abide by any laws, this is demonstrated with all the pro-illegal "immigrant" supporters. It's true it's those that accuse racism, are the racists. While McCain was fighting for the US and being a prisoner of war, and should have won without question, the large number of Marxists and racists bolstered up Obama as the new Messiah. Obama never served in the military, let alone had a real job, or ever been in want. It was Hype and Krunk, of Oprah, and the leftists that pandered race to the poor, and socialism to the young, that got him in.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

This is what I mean by 'phony arguments' - the American people do not need to 'prove' Obama is inelligible, especially since he has made that impossible, by hiddng and sealing every single document pertaining to his past, that might reveal what nationality or name he was using at the time.

What is he hiding again? Maybe he just doesnt care along with the rest of the nation? Theres this arrogance from birthers that the president his hiding something from them. Really now? They care? The are other real issues in this nation that people tend to pay attention to.

It is up to Obama to prove to the Ameican people that he is in fact elligible!

Actually, by the constitution, it is up to congress and the electoral collegae to verify his eligibility, which he has done. If you actually paid attention to the constitution you may have noticed this. The idea that the president must prove his eligibility to everybody is utter stupidity.

especially when 60% doubt it!

Oh please pull out the source for this claim. And no, we don't live in a mob ruled democracy.

And just because Nancy Pelosi signed a certificate of elligibilty - that she sent to Hawaii only,

It doesnt matter what little details you have issue with Nancy Pelosi. She stated the president was eligible and she had her own party's guidelines to certification, it has little to no relevance to the fact that congress and the electoral college are left with verifying the presidents eligibility.

reply to post by blamethegreys


Where were all these "constitutionalists" when GWB lied to start a war, and, not only committed war crimes, but defrauded the united states, as defined in title 18? where were these "constitutionalists" when the bush admin through NSA, was monitoring all communication in the US without a warrant? funny how selective "constitutionalists" can be, hah? I'm not an obama-ite; but this issue is insane. yeah it IS the domain of racist right-wingers for the most part, because the blind FEAR being displayed is because of his race, at it's heart. GWB did more to destroy the united states than "alquaeda"(LOL) could have done with 100 9/11's. I don't remember many "constitutionalists" speaking up about it. I remember everyone waving the #ing flag and trying to destroy anyone who dissented. Obama probably deserves to be a one-term president, but, HE IS WHO HE SAYS HE IS. I said it earlier in this thread, no one would give him the access to nuclear launch codes otherwise. and yet, this keeps going.
#ing pathetic

reply to post by Southern Guardian


"Maybe he just doesnt care along with the rest of the nation?" + "Oh please pull out the source for this claim. And no, we don't live in a mob ruled democracy".

NEW OPINION POLL SHOWS 60% DOUBT OBAMA BORN IN THE USA

Opinion Research Corporation PDF File Pollis based on interviews with 1,018 adult Americans, including 335 Democrats, 398 Independents, and 285 Republicans, connducted by telephone on July 16-21, 2010. The margin of sampling error for results based on the total sample is plus or minus 3 percentage points. Results in this document labelled "All Americans" or "Total" are based on this sample of 1,018 adults. ... Bloggers: Permalink to this story is: www.marchreport.com...-08-05-P003

"it is up to congress and the electoral collegae to verify his eligibility, "

Congress report concedes Obama eligibility unvetted 'There is no specific federal agency' to review candidates for federal office Posted: November 08, 2010 8:38 pm Eastern By Jerome R. Corsi © 2010 WorldNetDaily U.S. President Barack Obama (R) toasts alongside India's Prime Minister Manmohan Singh during a state dinner at Rashtrapati Bhavan in New Delhi November 8, 2010. REUTERS/Jason Reed (INDIA - Tags: POLITICS) A congressional document posted on the Internet confirms no one – not Congress, not the states and not election officials – bothered to check Barack Obama's eligibility to be president, and that status remains undocumented to this day. It's because state and federal law did not require anyone in Congress or elsewhere to check to see if Obama was a "natural born Citizen" under the meaning of Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution, according the document. The analysis by the Congressional Research Service, a research arm of the U.S. Congress, openly admits no one in the federal government, including Congress, ever asked to see Obama's long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate. It explains no one was required to do so.
www.wnd.com...

"It doesnt matter what little details you have issue with Nancy Pelosi. She stated the president was eligible"

Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up? Online images for certification of nomination raise questions Posted: September 11, 2009 8:01 pm Eastern By Bob Unruh © 2010 WorldNetDaily A commentator at Canada Free Press says he has obtained copies of two documents apparently prepared by Democrats to certify Barack Obama as their nominee for president in 2008 that suggest House Speaker Nancy Pelosi knew there was an unresolved issue with his eligibility under the U.S. Constitution. Writer JB Williams describes himself as a "no nonsense commentator on American politics, American history, and American philosophy." And he say's he's gotten possession of copies of the documents in question. The first includes a verification that Obama and Joe Biden, then-candidate for vice president, "are legally qualified to serve under the provisions of the United States Constitution." ........................The second form obtained by Williams appears identical, down to a typographical error in "through." But in this one, the verification of eligibility under the requirements of the U.S. Constitution is gone.


Read more: Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up? www.wnd.com...

You can keep ignoring the devastating and overwhelming evidence - and posting phony arguments all you like - I don't think you are fooling anybody!