Smokers Need Not Apply

reply to post by Nyiah


With respect I read the article and understood that very well... Thank you very much, its a business choice who they hire.

reply to post by ziggy1706


Please don’t take this the wrong way, but do you have a problem with your keyboard? Because the grammar, and spelling is difficult to follow. If there is a problem with work, being that you're a manager I would think that they would be more upset with your written communication skills than smoking.

I am not trying to embarrass or attack you, I just wanted to point out that there may be other reasons why they “don’t like you” and maybe help you change them.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Intelearthling

 

There is a small company here in Georgia, called Harry's Farmer Market (about 4 or 5 large grocery store sized business fronts) that has had this policy since the early nineties. I applied there, as a younger man, and was told that if I smoked I would have to take a smoking cessation course, at my own expense, and provide proof I had done so, just to be hired... AND if I were seen smoking ANYWHERE, at ANY TIME, I would be terminated instantly.

Needless to say, I told Harry to shove his job and went to work elsewhere.

But, even then, when I tried to pursue a complaint about this policy to various government agencies, I was told, over and over again, that private businesses have the prerogative to do this as long as they don't violate the specific categories covered under civil rights laws.

It's a bunch of fascist BS if you ask me, but such is the world.

~Heff

You are not seeing it in the Employer's point of view. YES we all would like love to be hired regardless of our imperfections and addictions we all might have! But, you will have to put your self in the employer's shoes. As an employer that I am (I do computer repairs), I would say that I will never hire any one that smokes because second hand smokes is more dangerous than first hand smoke and the LAST thing that I want is some one working right next to me that smokes in random times while waiting for customers in the cashier, or that goes to the hall way (which is right next to my main office where I sit) to take a smoke, which smoke will make it to my office any ways.

Yes, I do have an anti-smoke policy, a zero clad one if you ask me.

The employer has his right to maintain his health, and the purpose of hiring an employee is to make his or her life much easier, not much harder. If it were to make my life harder, then I would just rather do everything my self and not hire any employees (attending new customers, selling computers, fixing computers, doing marketing, billing, collections, etc, yep all by my self.) That's why non-smoking employers like me have strict anti-smoke rules.

NOW, if a particular employer is a smoker, THEN you might smoke within his establishment. If you are a smoker, then you will do OK if your employer is a smoker as well.

reply to post by Intelearthling


It's a hospital and smoking is a health issue. Healthcare professionals should set a good example, and practice what they preach.

First of all, SMOKING SUCKS! I'm a smoker. I come from a family of smokers and was addicted, by second hand smoke, since childhood. When I first consciously took up smoking, it was to be closer to my father (CRAZY). In those day smoking was glamorized. What we see now is, IMO, an attemp to reverse this corrupt and capitolistic genocide,. I feel the brunt of this social disgust personally. I may be doomed, but the next generation is wiser and more in control of their health than we were.

Second, My daughter is a PHD scientist who works at a hospital doing research on deadly deseases such as AIDS, ebola, lupus,..... She risks being infected because of substandard equipment daily. A few months back, her fellow employee was infected with HIV due to a needle stab that she got while proceesing samples. Also, she is constatnly having to give blood for experiments for her's and other's labs, because blood for experimentation is hard to get.

Could some of this blood, that hospitals are requiring from employees also being used in lab experiments?

Smokers also have a choice to take their business elsewhere, too. Though I'm no longer a smoker, I am more inclined to do business with a company that allows its own employees to smoke.

reply to post by Intelearthling


I thought it said Smokers Need Not Reply, for a sec there..
brb (stepping outside for a ah, break).

It's all about the Insurance. Greedy bastards don't want to fork over high premiums. Out of all the defects of the world, greed is showing to be more of a destructive force than any.


-B

reply to post by FNetV1


Most states now have regulations which prohibit smoking in businesses. I personally have not had a job that allowed anyone to smoke, except outside, during scheduled breaks, for many, many years.

I have no issue, at all, with an employer forbidding smoking in the workplace. Hell, they can even say that they don't want anyone smoking on their property, and that would be fine by me. BUT for an employer to tell me what I can and cannot do ON MY TIME OFF? To tell me that I can NEVER smoke a cigarette? Not even in my own home?

Screw that.

When we arrive at a point where a JOB can supersede the laws of the land... Where employers can legislate behavior without democratic process.. where do you think this will lead us? I have a government to pass laws that I must follow. Employers do not have this right.

Bear in mind that alcohol use is much more detrimental to work performance/attendance. So if you buy into this BS concept - the idea of banning smokers from being able to be gainfully employed - then prepare for the next logical step in the process... Your employer saying "If you drink, ever, in any amount, then you will be fired."

"If you eat fast food, you shall be fired."
"If you get too many speeding tickets you are a health insurance risk, so you shall be fired."
"Divorced people, or people in troubled marriages have higher stress... So fight with your spouse and you are fired."
"Oh, I see your parent died of cancer. You are a high risk. You can't work."

Companies and Corporations are NOT supposed to run this country. WE are. The people.

It amazes me when people on this site, (I assume republicans) scream bloody murder when any law is passed, no matter how rational or necessary, and roar a mighty "MY RIGHTS". But then these same folks turn around and say that Corporations have every right in the world to pass fascist rules.

My local government had to have a series of votes to ban smoking in public places... What right does a company have to just arbitrarily impose such limitations? What I do on my time, in my home (within the law) is MY business and not my bosses. If my choices effect my work then I can be punished or terminated but no company has the right to tell me that I cannot smoke simply because it might cause problems for them at some point.

Here's a clue... if the "FEMA camp" nightmare scenario that gets presented on ATS so often does ever come to pass, it won't be the Government putting people there... it'll be some damned Corporation. They are the cancer that is destroying our nation and our world.

And the very people who claim themselves to be "freedom fighters" all seem to be drinking the Corporate Kool Aid.

~Heff

This is very bad when your employer starts to restrict your personal freedoms they have pretty much won and you are no more than a slave "with benefits" to their every desire,
I cant think of a justifiable reason to do this unless they also provide some sort of health cover for employees? then they are just protecting their best interests the same way you would not have a criminal convicted of embezzlement running your business

Any and all tobacky smokers- I hope you get cancer, suffer, and die.

Better you than me from your second hand smoke, and when you're gone that just means more clean air for me and my family



As a non-smoker who has NEVER smoked in my life, I know first-hand how absolutely, horrendously disgusting it is to deal with, speak with, and be near, someone who has just smoked a cigarette.

If I am NEAR someone who has smoked a cigarette, I smell it, and it makes me nauseous.

Why? Because it's POISON that you are inhaling. It is a combination of chemicals that no human in their right mind would pick up off of the ground and start eating, so why are you infesting your lungs with the stuff?



"I can't quit it's too hard "

Of course you can't quit, you fat disgusting pig, you have no willpower. You aren't CAPABLE of quitting because you've never done anything difficult in your disgusting worthless life.



I grew up with two parents who would smoke 2-3 packs a day each, and you know what? They both quit. One attempt from my father, three from my mother.

Get some willpower and maybe you can quit, then you won't be worthless to society!

Originally posted by GodDoesNotExist
Any and all tobacky smokers- I hope you get cancer, suffer, and die.

How nice..

reply to post by GodDoesNotExist


Do you and/or your family eat beef products? Studies have shown that the methane, as well as CO2 levels, have risen in the atmosphere through the beef industry. If you demand leather goods, this is also a related factor.
How Meat Contributes to Global Warming

Does your family have a need for transportation whether it's powered by an internal combustion engine or electricity? It's a well known fact that catalytic converter turns the exhaust fumes into water and CO2. It's also a known fact that ozone is a byproduct high-voltage electricity production. CO2 is a greenhouse gas and ozone is a form of oxygen toxic to humans and animals.

How about plastics in one form or another? The molecules that's present in plastic products will alter hormones in the body and poison wildlife.
Plastic Not-So-Fantastic

Are the clothes you wear made from natural or sythetic fibers? Are you conscience about your recycling? Do you recieve junk mail? Do you eat organically grown produce only? Is your lawn maintained by gas-powered equipment? Do you take the stairs or elavators? Plastic bags or paper bags? Do you carpool?

I could go on and on, but the subject of this thread is nicotine. A legal substance that's produce naturally in tobacco. A substance that can be delivered to the human body other than smoking tobacco.

I know the tiltle of the thread is Smokers Need Not Apply, but the subject of the article is nicotine testing. While it is common sense that nicotine will be introduced to the body by smoking, it can also be introduced by smokeless forms of tobacco and e-cigs(which technically IS NOT a cigarette). Chewing gum and patches are used for delivery systems.

The bottom line is there are no laws against nicotine use unless you factor in the tobacco sales to minors prohibited. I don't have a problem with the banning of smoking tobacco products in the workplace or the discrimination of hiring practices regarding cigarette smokers. The problem I have is that there are ex-smokers who use smokeless nicotine delivery devices or products and they're the ones who are being singled out as out-casts.

Does a human need nicotine? No. Does a human need to eat meat? No. Does a human need to drive automobiles? No. Does a human need to wear clothes made from material other than cotton? No.

Unless you're a vegetarian who walks everywhere you need to go and work somewhere that's off the power grid, you don't impress me.

ADD: I know I got a little off topic, but there are other things in this world, other than tobacco smoke, that's more harmful to the environment and human health.

You don't have to be perfect for me, you just can't smoke

I can see a hospital, or any medical institution having this policy really...
Some people do have very bad responses to the smoke!! if my nephew were to be in the er because of an asthma attack and the nurse came to him and had smoked recently, well, she would have just made the attack much more severe! I've known a few people who have very severe reactions to cigarette smoke. and well, if people are in the hospital, then more than likely they are sick already, they don't need to be breathing in the residue off of us smokers clothing...
but....
my supervisor and me go through this little routine everytime I have a doctor's appointment...
I tell her about the appointment, which is usually made for around 9 am....I start work at 7...she asks me if I am coming in before the appointment, and I will tell her that I would prefer not to....
and well, she has a big fit over it!!

but....those people don't need to be breathing in all the flock and solvents and crap either, and I would venture to say that it would probably have a more detrimental effect on them than the cigarette smoke!

as far as I am concerned, they should ban me from the doctor's office till I go home, take a shower and get all that crap off me!! but, na.....they are just concerned with the cigarettes...lol....
god only knows what crap that put in our food, our clothing, our bedding, heck everything!!! but, it's the cigarette smoke that is bad!!!

I find it rather humorous by the way when people tell me just how bad smokers are as employees....
I've worked three years now with a hernia, have feet that tend not to act the way they are supposed to from time to time, have been losing blood for over a year, and well....walked away from the christmas party with over a week of vacation pay and a few sick days pay that I never used. Most of the people in the shop have missed more days than I did....
and well, while some of them are at work, I watch as they try to line things up, their hands are shaking so badly, I don't see how they can do it even, those are the alchoholics in the company, others are wandering around at least once an hour, to the snack machine, to the bathroom, to the water fountain, whatever.... or they are just standing around talking to each other....
there are good employees, and there are not so good employees, I don't really think the smoking has anything to do with it. I am hoping to go to change jobs the end of next month, and I will be able to smoke right at my workstation, and guess what, I still won't be smoking unless it's breaktime. partly because of my work ethic, partly because I just don't need to be smoking that much!
I think it has more to do with character and ethics than it does with smoking. If your an employer who hasn't figured that out yet, who would decide I wasn't suited for them job simply because I smoke, well....I'd decide very quickly that you weren't worthy of my labor anyways.....I've worked long enough, in enough places to know, the slackers come in all forms....if you are too dumb to figure that one out, well, you are probably too dumb to run you business also. I'd rather work for a smart employer who knows how to run a business and pull a profit thank you! usually the slackers, weather they are disappearing to have a cigarette, or just taking ten for a nice chat, or wandering through the shop on a regular basis, end up having a nice chat with the bosses, and well, then you don't see them wandering or chatting as often for awhile...at least in my shop.
if you have your smokers huddling outside your office smoking while they should be working, I would venture to say, it's you with the problem, not them?

Originally posted by Xiamara
Sorry misread your entire post.

Look, smoking is a recreational choice who you spend your life with is not, what your religion or lack of religious belief is not a recreational choice.

Nonsense !

Of course these are all personal choices.

Religion, partners, drug taking ( legal ), are all personal choices that you seem to want to grade along the lines of to their personal acceptability to you.

How about - considering that sexually active gay men have a higher likelihood of contracting HIV - I can prohibit all non-celibate gay men from working for me ?

Insurance and all that.

After all, sexual partners are a recreational choice, so I'd be well within my rights to deny people employment on these grounds...

Originally posted by Xiamara
My point is basically a private company has the choice hell they have the choice to choose who they hire and fire. Its just that simple. I agree with it.

So I'll just choose to fire all Muslim and Jewish employees then.

After all, I have the right to ''hire and fire''.

As long as you can get away with employee discrimination legally, then I suppose that every act of discrimination can be deemed to be acceptable, if the proprietor of the company has no ethics or human decency.


Anyway, I'm going to be off here for a few days, so I wish you and the rest of ATS a great Christmas.

I'm outta here !

Originally posted by Xiamara
Smoking is a problem since smokers take "smoking breaks" if its around the building its a hazard to the others who are non smokers. I agree its a minuscule thing but that's just it, if you can't get this job apply some where else. I'm sick of whinny smokers complaining how they can't smoke. Its bad for your health if anything say thanks, its incentive to quit.

And smokers ARE SICK of government co-operating with big business to make all kinds of fascist laws to discriminate against people who just want to make a living and get on with their life. People SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE to smoke! Can you imagine someone trying to smoke a few puffs outside in the cold, nevermind it raining or snowing and getting all wet and uncomfortable. The arguement that second hand smoke is just as dangerous as first hand smoke is absolute nonsense.

It used to be 2-3 decades ago that companies had a smoke ventilation system attached on the roof so that most of the smoke(if not all of it) was sucked up and clean air was pumped in from another source. Then the anti-smoke community which fraudulently exaggerated their claims managed to lobby government to make tougher&and more restrictive laws which in effect discriminate against smokers.

Now we get NO SMOKING ANYWHERE, not even outside the building you work, not in your car, not in your house, NO WHERE....PERIOD! Do you not see where this heading towards?

Originally posted by Xiamara
I have to say since its a hospital it makes a tone of sense they promote healthy living smoking is unhealthy. If you smoke out side that setting you still represent that hospital's image so, they are within the right to say no to you if you are a smoker or are caught smoking. Its recreational. That is the main thing, companies can do that, they can have a clause in your contract saying you can't play golf.

Fine since hospitals theoretically promote a clean&safe enviroment I CAN AGREE with a no smoking policy for its employees and patients. But still one could argue that there COULD BE ventilated smoking rooms FOR PATIENTS who wish to light one up and not have to go outside on doctors/nurses permission of course!

There ARE EXCEPTIONS to each and every rule BUT i fear government has bent over too much in regard to company freedom and no where near enough to employee rights. Capitalism is a flawed system, almost as much as communism. I am a socalist by choice and believe in strong unions, the stronger the unions the better the quality of living and working.

Originally posted by Angrybadger
You get a break for food,then go outside for 10 minutes to ease the tobaco monkeys howls.Over a year thats a lotta time,for a lotta people,.Big money .And youre hardly gonna die if you dont smoke so why should you get all that paid smoking times a year when your co workers are slaving at the office.

But here is the point sherlock holmes, in many cases employees could light a cigarrete anytime they damm please if the govenment whores didn't bend over all the time to make companies happy. I get we have capitalism but that does not mean we need stupid laws to tell us what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Some laws just DO NOT MAKE SENSE because they are based on EXAGGERATED CLAIMS that have no basis in reality.

Most of the people WHO WHINNED LIKE BABIES over getting cancer or heart disease WHERE PREDISPOSED and would suffer from those ailments JUST THE SAME even if they never smoked one cigarrete their entire life.

Get a clue folks and stop falling victim to the propaganda machine that has YOUR WORST INTERESTS INVOLVED!!!

Originally posted by Angrybadger
Im just as concerned with Big business eroding the rights of workers as anyone here ,but this rule dosent really disturb me too much.

If you were truely concerned about big business fascism you would not be tolerating discrimination OF ANY KIND even if your not a smoker per say. Today its smokers, tomorrow it may be fat people, the next day it may be people with high blood pressure, or too ugly looking, or too short, or not polite enough, or blah, blah...Discrimination OF ANY KIND makes me sick and wreeks of fascism!

Originally posted by eaglewoman
First of all, SMOKING SUCKS! I'm a smoker. I come from a family of smokers and was addicted, by second hand smoke, since childhood. When I first consciously took up smoking, it was to be closer to my father (CRAZY). In those day smoking was glamorized. What we see now is, IMO, an attemp to reverse this corrupt and capitolistic genocide,. I feel the brunt of this social disgust personally. I may be doomed, but the next generation is wiser and more in control of their health than we were.

Wow maybe you live on another planet there mate. The food they feed school children at the school cafeteria such as soft drinks, gum&candy, chocolate bars, etc is MUCH MORE of a health concern than picking up the smoking habit which I will agree can be detrimental to your health over prolonged exposure. The keywords are *can be*, NOT *is*!

And then we get McDonalds, Burger King, Wendys selling PLASTIC FOOD which no one really understands HOW BAD its for your health. You think its a coincidence they called bigmacs "kangaroo meat"? Or the beef lard they cook their french fries with because they cannot afford to use vegetable oil?

Or the MM's, kool-aid, donuts with jelly, chocolate chip cookies, seven layer cakes, synthetic flavorings, MSG, etc.........polluted water, polluted air, atomic bomb detonations, tainted medicine..OMG the list is endless!

But people prefer to make A BIG DEAL out of BS such as smoking cigarretes or smoking marijuanna. HYPOCRITES!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Oh boo hoo you have out side and smoke because its harmful to non smokers oh the humanity! Sorry I have no sympathy for smokers. Its bad for others around them and if its cold well choose the healthy choice and quit. Suck it up buttercup and learn that you are not the only one affected by cigarette smoke. Everyone around you is, so if a business chooses to say no smokers take the hint and quit.