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Smokers Need Not Apply

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posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:38 AM
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I think we all just need to calm down and have a smoke!


And I reiterate my statement. An employer has every right to control what I do on their clock and on their property. They can even make sure that I am not violating laws outside of their sphere of influence. BUT when an employer begins to seek to punish or control what I do, within the law, on my own time and on my own property?

Well this is, by definition, fascism. And who the Hell passed a law saying that businesses could dictate what citizens do on their own time and in their own homes?

This is a dangerous slope. If we allow businesses to dictate what we do on our own times, and we do not fight back or dispute it... Well the we deserve the dystopic results it will bring.

Remember how these things tend to work... They go after the easily demonized behaviors first and then, once that behavior is broken, the demonize the next and the next and the next until all your behaviors are controlled.

~Heff
edit on 12/24/10 by Hefficide because: typo




posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


I can agree to some of that, however I still argue the company image clause that many companies have. Which is perfectly acceptable in the case of the hospital they want to promote healthy living so, I think it is acceptable for them to say no smoking at all, the image their employees are setting isn't.

Also I don't think we should jump to conclusions and automatically assume that this will snowball into a huge issue, I'm an optimist I think this is a good turn that can lead to many people living healthier smoke free lives. (yes I'm a huge supporter of anti-smoking, it killed my grandpa even though he never smoked a day in his life)



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:44 AM
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Double post sorry
edit on 24-12-2010 by Xiamara because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by GodDoesNotExist
Any and all tobacky smokers- I hope you get cancer, suffer, and die.

Better you than me from your second hand smoke, and when you're gone that just means more clean air for me and my family



If it was up to me I would have you banned from the site permanently..no ifs or buts! Not because you dislike smoking, but because you wish illness upon others which goes against the terms and conditions of the site.



Originally posted by GodDoesNotExist
As a non-smoker who has NEVER smoked in my life, I know first-hand how absolutely, horrendously disgusting it is to deal with, speak with, and be near, someone who has just smoked a cigarette.



So you were a geek/nerd all your life. Does that mean everyone else should be as well?!




Originally posted by GodDoesNotExist
If I am NEAR someone who has smoked a cigarette, I smell it, and it makes me nauseous.

Why? Because it's POISON that you are inhaling. It is a combination of chemicals that no human in their right mind would pick up off of the ground and start eating, so why are you infesting your lungs with the stuff?



Is it more poisonous than the carbon monoxide released from cars, trucks and busses?

Is it more poisonous than the sulfur dioxide released from chemical refinery plants?

Is it more poisonous than the garbage food you eat at mcdonalds, burger king and wendys?



Originally posted by GodDoesNotExist

"I can't quit it's too hard
"

Of course you can't quit, you fat disgusting pig, you have no willpower. You aren't CAPABLE of quitting because you've never done anything difficult in your disgusting worthless life.



Wow, so people who smoke are also fat disgusting people....talk about making stupid strawman arguements/analogies!




Originally posted by GodDoesNotExist

I grew up with two parents who would smoke 2-3 packs a day each, and you know what? They both quit. One attempt from my father, three from my mother.

Get some willpower and maybe you can quit, then you won't be worthless to society!



Well if they smoked 2-3 packs a day MAYBE THEY WERE NOT RECREATIONAL SMOKERS and in reality were CHAIN SMOKERS! Do you know the difference? Even water if consumed excessively can be poisionous and result in death.
edit on 24-12-2010 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Oh boo hoo you have out side and smoke because its harmful to non smokers oh the humanity! Sorry I have no sympathy for smokers. Its bad for others around them and if its cold well choose the healthy choice and quit. Suck it up buttercup and learn that you are not the only one affected by cigarette smoke. Everyone around you is, so if a business chooses to say no smokers take the hint and quit.


First of all smoking isn't much of a health issue as I pointed out earlier.

Second if I have to choose between quitting my job or quit smoking, I would quit my job and find an employer who actually respects civil rights and treats me with the respect I deserve. Sorry I am no one's slave and I don't ever plan to become anyone else's slave.

This stupidity has gone far enough because unions are weak in america and people have allowed themselves to be taken advantage off, both by their employers and by government. Its time people stand up for their rights by claiming them.

The fact health insurance costs keep going up each year is no excuse for business to not hire smokers, fat people, cancer prone people, marijuana users(gray area here), ugly people, etc! It was governments job to regulate insurance premiums and they failed miserably. Why should I pay for government's ineptitude? Does it make sense?

At the very least a business could choose to hire people without providing health insurance to the employee. I don't think a business is obligated to provide health insurance to anyone so why use the "it costs me too much money to have you" excuse when it does not hold water? Besides its a well known fact that for every dollar an employee makes YOU AS AN EMPLOYER MAKE A BUCK AND FIFTY CENTS on my labor! No excuse for stupidity on this scale.
edit on 24-12-2010 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


So lung cancer emphysema, having a hole in you throat, not health issues... The fact that cigarettes are considered coffin nails is not a major issue to you? Look I want to work in a smoke free area, and since most nicotine addicts are smokers in the traditional then yeah I would say no smoking. I don't want to get lung cancer because I had to work in an environment with a self centered smoker who not only disregards their own health but chooses to put others at risk to.

There is no filter "protecting" the people around you, so damage your own lungs all you want I could care less, but damage other people and mine then I do care.
edit on 24-12-2010 by Xiamara because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by Xiamara
 


Your making the mistake of assuming most smokers are chain smokers rather than recreational smokers.

Second smoke ventillation systems can be very effective if done properly and maintained!

I have nothing against you on a personal level. Thanks for the discussion and merry christmas........



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by Intelearthling
 


Dude im in the medical field and a lot of places dont allow or dont like smokers just the fact we're in health care we cant lecture people how bad smoking is and go smoke. It's been like this for a long time nothing new.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Oh I do understand that but, its the particulate matter such as the tar and ash that is the most harmful to others around its blocked by the filter this matter attaches to clothing hair, and for long time smokers their lungs. This matter isn't always picked up by venting fans.

Oh and don't worry I love debating I never take it personally until people make personal attacks at me. It has been funny Merry Christmas!!
I think of a good debate like a present its always a surprise...



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 12:02 PM
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Wow some of the things I have read about people insulting those who smoke is disgusting in general, It is free will if someone wants to smoke then let them. It is very not cool to wish death and disease on those who do If you believe in karma you better watch out for saying those disgusting things towards people and just because someone cant quit doesn't mean they are fat weak and disgusting its an addiction and it is hard, I went through it. But who ever said that to the person that cant quit, how would you know they have never went through a trial of hardship in they're life? how do we know you have ever done anything hard in life! Get over yourselves people, smoking is a disgusting habit but dont wish death and disease on these people, they're somebodies mom, dad, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, you get the point, have a merry christmas and im sure karma will catch up to all those who wish harm on others especially at a time like now.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 05:05 PM
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This shouldn't be an issue. Companies should be allowed(sic) to hire who they want.

But the problem is that the line between government and corporation is beginning
to blur...it is hard to tell where one begins and the other ends...

We baby-boomers have been lazy politicos. A little too caught up in our soccer-mom,
American Idol lives. We've played the "watch the right hand while the left is stealing" game
for too long, as the corporations and TPTB took from us all that we have. The time is nigh...

If we do not act...If we do not STAND on principle soon...our ability to protest, to change,
to act at all in any way detrimental to the state and corporate government will be taken
as well...



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by xBWOMPx
reply to post by Intelearthling
 


Dude im in the medical field and a lot of places dont allow or dont like smokers just the fact we're in health care we cant lecture people how bad smoking is and go smoke. It's been like this for a long time nothing new.


I believe the real argument of this thread is the fact that nicotine testing automatically assumes that people with positive readings are tobacco smokers.

For about the millionth time (grossly exaggerated), the argument is about a chemical that's legal and not necessarily delivered to the human body by tobacco smoke inhalation. Cigarette smokers across the nation abide with bans in the workplace and public places concerning smoking. This is no problem with the majority of them since they know that cigarette smoking is not good for health. They may not have a problem with an employer not wanting to hire someone who smokes. What I find a problem with is that ex-smokers or even non-smokers who enjoy the stimulating or relaxing effects of nicotine are discriminated against as though they are smokers.

It is common knowledge that the tar and carbon monoxide, as well as other chemicals present in cigarettes, are the cause heart and lung disease. Nicotine has very little, if nothing at all, to do with these diseases, besides the fact it is present in products that have chemicals that cause them.

While products that have nicotine present, most common is tobacco, are at the center of health issues, nicotine, by itself, has shown promising results when delivered to patients with neurological disorders namely Alzheimer's Disease and Tourette's Syndrome.




•Alzheimer's Disease - The first neurons lost to Alzheimers are cholinergic neurons in a specific region of the brain. Nicotine may improve the function of the neurons that are left and slow the onset of symptoms.
•Tourette's Syndrome - This disease produces tics (uncontrolled movements of the head, hands and other body parts) and violent urges in its sufferers. Nicotine patches that slowly deliver nicotine through the skin can reduce symptoms of people with Tourette's.


Health: How Stuff Works

It seems hypocritical of the health industry to condemn anyone for using a substance they've shown to have health benefits. Is it a fact that if there are more healthy people than sick, they'll lose revenue? How about ex-smokers who use the electronic cigarette? Is this a conspiracy by the health industry to discriminate people with pre-existing conditions that's contrary to the new healthcare laws that recently went into effect?

Let me make myself clear once again. Contrary to the title of this thread, it's not about the smoker. It's about people who use nicotine that's being labeled as being a smoker.
edit on 26/12/10 by Intelearthling because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 03:09 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by GodDoesNotExist
 

and if I ever saw you come into my shop to have something printed, I would refuse to do the job!!
why???
you'd be asking me and my coworkers to endanger themselves by exposing themselves to something far more dangerous to one's health than the cigarettes you are so afraid of...

oh...and if you smelled like pretty perfume or colonge....we'd drag you down in the basement and hose you off like one of our dirty screens!!!

have a nice holiday season!!! make sure you read the labels on all your gifts, and hop online and research every ingredient, every material, contained in said gifts.....especiallly if they say Made In China"!!!

afterall, you wouldn't want to inadvertantly harm someone by wearing that nice new Formaldehyde laced sweater, now would you???



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 06:22 AM
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the problem is that right now it is "smokers" they are under the microscope because of the stigma attached with smoking. What will be next? transfats, red meat, weight, ...the truth is that right now a company could use any of these excuses not to hire you.

in most work places you are exposed to more toxins than you can believe .... I am not for smoking tobacco in the form it is sold! Most people don't realize the manufacturing process that tobacco goes through. The weed is chopped up and sprayed with a liquid containg a specific nicotine level for taste and constancy of nicotine delivery...look at cigetattes as a nicotine delivery system ......

however if a society is to be free then we must allow the populace make their own decisions



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by fnpmitchreturns
 





Most people don't realize the manufacturing process that tobacco goes through


I think this is true for most of the products we buy now days....people have no idea what has been put into them!
Why focus you attention on the smokers? I mean, if there's any non-smokers out there that don't know the habit isn't good for their health, well, there's the stinky smell, burning throat, ect....that will let their body know it doesn't like it....it's like a giant black widow spider, clearly advertising it's deadliness...
but well, what about all those other products, you crawl into bed, snuggle the nice warm comforter, and well, there is no warning signs from you body all it knows is it's nice and comfy.....but well....it doesn't mean that the comforter isn't unhealthy!! the toxins are just packaged to be more inviting...kind of like a venus fly trap....

instead of screaming and abusing the smokers, maybe we should all turn our heads and face the manufacturers and demand that they get the crap out of ALL of our products!!!



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 07:57 AM
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Don't get me wrong, I'm all for legalization of all drugs, people should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies... but a private company, in particular a company that is supposed to be represented by/as health "professionals", should have every right to have rules set in place that filter actual "health professionals" from those that just want a job.

I for one find it quite pathetic to see doctors or nurses in work who clearly aren't even disciplined enough to be able to keep themselves healthy, let alone strangers they could mostly care less about.

On that note, I'll also admit that there is much confusion/ignorance/disinformation in mainstream medicine as to what actually is good or bad for you. For example I believe many of the highly illegal substances out there today are far less harmful for you than that which is legal (ex. cigarettes).

But ultimately ANY sort of addiction is an unhealthy habit, and any addict who believes otherwise are fooling themselves. In this case we're dealing with a hospital, and in my opinion it's quite silly to think that a HOSPITAL is wrong for not wanting to employ people with an unhealthy (addictive) habit.

A real doctor should know better; and practice what they preach. Assuming that the intent behind the hospitals restrictions are genuine, I for one commend them for showing some courage on a matter that was inevitably going to bring about much criticism.
edit on 26/12/10 by Navieko because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 02:55 PM
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If you smoke cigarettes in public, you are purposefully endangering others, with no regard for their safety.

Therefore, you are WORTHLESS.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by GodDoesNotExist
 



If you smoke cigarettes in public, you are purposefully endangering others, with no regard for their safety. Therefore, you are WORTHLESS.


If you contract with a printing company for some printed material, you are purposely endangering others, with no regard to their safety. Therefore you are worthless.

If you consume products made of plastic, you are purposely endangering others, with no regard to their safety. Therefore you are worthless.

If you drive a car, you are purposely endangering others, with no regard to their safety. Therefore you are worthless.

If you burn incense, use air freshener, like to use to perfume, you are purposely endangering others, with no regard to their safety. Therefore, you are worthless.

If you cook a nice dinner for your friends and family, you are purposely endangering others, with no regard to their safety. Therefore, you are worthless..

If you rent out a newly remodeled apartment or house, you are purposely endangering others, with no regard to their safety. Therefore, you are worthless.

If you go and buy a part for your car that has to be machined, your are purposely endangering others, with no regard to their safety. Therefore, you are worthless.

If you leave your computer on for extended periods of time, you are purposely endangering others, with no regard to their safety. Therefore, you are worthless.

Do I need to go on, or have I established that by using your logic, well.....
WE ARE ALL WORTHLESS!!!
or very, very lonely!!!



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 04:34 PM
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It seems that many people here are unclear about the intent of 'anti-discrimination' laws. The intent of such laws is to prevent people who may be 'different' in some way beyond their conscious choice or control as for sex, age, sexual orientation, race, etc.from having opportunities that they might otherwise have. There are many valid reasons for refusing to hire someone which do not qualify as illegal discrimination. Should people be banned from certain jobs because they are convicted sex offenders? One might also that such a thing was discriminatory. People who smoke do not have the right to smoke anywhere they choose or to work anywhere they choose. If they want the job that bad, then they should quit smoking. It's in their best interest anyway.

Don't jump on my back now - I smoked for 10 years and quit so I know exactly what it's like to be a smoker, to quit and that it is possible to do it, if you want it bad enough.




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