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Why do Americans need guns? Rip UP the Second Amendment, problem solved.

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posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 05:45 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Mooradian

Originally posted by kevinunknown

I got into this debate recently but it seemed a little bit of topic so I thought I would take a risk and write a thread myself asking the above question “why do Americans need guns?”

Now to me I can understand why a farmer might own a few shotguns or a hunter might own a few hunting rifles but why does anyone need a semi-automatic, unless their objective is to kill. To me guns are inherently evil objects that have been designed to kill our fellow man and therefore are evil as is to use a gun to kill. Further to this there have been a number of high profile shootings in America were a gun man has committed multiple homicide or gang warfare has resulted in innocents being killed. Now with that in mind how can you possibly say that the right to bear arms is justified? Yes some people need guns to do their jobs such as game keepers, farmers and law enforcement but why does Joe the plumber really need one.

The argument is always that it’s for self defence, that way if someone pulls a gun on a knife on you, you can protect yourself. It’s a hard one to argue against, but surly if it were the case that gun’s were outlawed or heavily regulated it would lead to a overall reduction in the number of firearms owned and therefore the odds of someone pulling a gun on you would be greatly reduced therefore you wouldn’t have to own a fire arm and the odds would fall further. In any case you can never be sure it’s going to help your odds, if two gun men mug you or break into your house you’re already on the losing side. Now baring in mind that there are almost enough firearms America for every citizen the robbers are going to know you have a gun in your house, they are going to be prepared and have the element of surprise on their side.

Now am sorry to spit on your 2nd amendment right, but for me self defence is not a valid argument for defending the 2nd amendment. Also the ability to carry arms has been severely restricted by the Gun-Free School zones act of 1990 signed by Gorge H W Bush, which is ironic considering that 41% of republicans own a firearm compared to only 23% of democrats so kudos to Bush. This does mean though that as a law abiding citizen in a town or city you really can’t carry a gun knowing that you are not breaking a law. As such you would be better just not carrying one, so again if you get attacked by someone you shouldn’t have a gun to defend yourself in the first place because to be carrying said firearm you would be breaking the law.

The line that I love is this “we have places to keep people who can’t use their guns properly, they’re called prisons”. Very true, but you also have places called hospitals and mortuaries filled with the victims of the scum your keeping in prison, and thousands of homes full of grieving families. Would it not just be better to ban or regulate these guns out right that way no idiots going to prison and cheaper hospital bills and less tears.
Then we get to my favourite, the line that all gun loving conspiracy theorists loves. “ I need my guns to protect myself for when the government turn on its people and try to through us all in the FEMA camps”. If that is your reason for keeping a gun, then you shouldn’t be allowed to own a gun based on your sanity. This fantasy that one day the feds are going to come knocking at your door to put you on the FEMA bus, then you, in a spectacular move pull out your Glock and take them all out then spend the rest of your life like the incarnation of the movie Rambo: First Blood, is just a fantasy no more. It’s not going to happen and even if it does your guns won’t do you any good, you will either die or be put in the camps so again I don’t give that fantasy any credibility as a reason to keep a locker full of AR-15’s in bedroom.

So can someone please tell me why you need a gun? In the UK I know no one who owns a gun, and no one I know has ever been disadvantaged because of this why is it that the worlds “super power” is any different, Gun Laws are out of date, rip up the second amendment and join the 21st century .



You my friend are captain of the ss dumb ass.

I myself have defended my home against burglars with my ak47

Guns are the teeth of the people. It's our right.


most of the guns used in killings are not registered and would be there regardless if we had the 2md am,end,met.

You're a retard. Get your hippie ass out


I feel kinda insulted as I am of the hippie generation, outgrew it, however stilllllllll



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 05:51 PM
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stop with all them quotes goodness sakes!!!!!!



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by xavi1000

You are clearly not very well informed about history.Hitler was not opposed .German vote for him and admire it .When Soviet union crushed, reason was not soviet citizens armed with guns but coup.
edit on 15-12-2010 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)


Actually the one not informed is you... Even though the government in power in Germany before Hitler already had several gun restrictions Hitler added the 1938 Nazi weapons control law, which was aimed at disarming Jewish-German citizens.


...
Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons
11 November 1938
With a basis in §31 of the Weapons Law of 18 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p.265), Article III of the Law on the Reunification of Austria with Germany of 13 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 237), and §9 of the Führer and Chancellor's decree on the administration of the Sudeten-German districts of 1 October 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p 1331) are the following ordered:
§1
Jews (§5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 1333) are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.

§2
Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew's possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation.

§3
The Minister of the Interior may make exceptions to the Prohibition in §1 for Jews who are foreign nationals. He can entrust other authorities with this power.

§4
Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions of §1 will be punished with imprisonment and a fine. In especially severe cases of deliberate violations, the punishment is imprisonment in a penitentiary for up to five years.

§5
For the implementation of this regulation, the Minister of the Interior waives the necessary legal and administrative provisions.

§6
This regulation is valid in the state of Austria and in the Sudeten-German districts.

Berlin, 11 November 1938
Minister of the Interior
Frick
...
It would be instructive at this time to recall why the American citizenry and Congress have historically opposed the registration of firearms. The reason is plain. Registration makes it easy for a tyrannical government to confiscate firearms and to make prey of its subjects. Denying this historical fact is no more justified than denying that the Holocaust occurred or that the Nazis murdered millions of unarmed people.

I am writing a book on Nazi policies and practices which sought to repress civilian gun ownership and to eradicate gun owners in Germany and in occupied Europe. The following sampling of my findings should give pause to the suggestion that draconian punishment of citizens for keeping firearms necessarily is a social good.

Himmler, head of the Nazi terror police, would become an architect of the Holocaust, which consumed six million Jews. It was self evident that the Jews must be disarmed before the extermination could begin.

Finding out which Jews had firearms was not too difficult. The liberal Weimar Republic passed a Firearm Law in 1928 requiring extensive police records on gun owners. Hitler signed a further gun control law in early 1938.

Other European countries also had laws requiring police records to be kept on persons who possessed firearms. When the Nazis took over Czechoslovakia and Poland in 1939, it was a simple matter to identify gun owners. Many of them disappeared in the middle of the night along with political opponents.
...

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...

This is part of the reason why gun owners, and other Americans who are defenders of the Bill of Rights including our Second Amendment right to own and bear weapons are against gun registration, and much less the draconian point of view of the OP, and other members who are completely ignoring the lessons of history...



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 05:58 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 05:59 PM
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Thank you all pro gun owners for the great debates and discussions...I the female pro gun owner must go cook dinner for the grandson....be back tomorrow...Go 2nd amendment



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Bad comparation again ,Hitler killed 6 milions jews ,when they were arrested they were all without guns ? NOT.



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 06:09 PM
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First mate of the ss dumb ass

My intentions are not to make enemies here .To repeat myself again : You americans do have a right to have a gun and that is never questioned.We debate here is it there a need ? There are so many high developed countries around the world for example Japan with very rigorous tight gun control but very low crime.

My intentions are polite debating and to be more informed why common americans badly need this 2nd amendment when clearly in other countries with more tight gun control is more safe and with very low crime .



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 06:09 PM
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Haven't actually read the whole thread, keep coming back, and every time I look, there's five more pages!

Well, great job kevinunknown for choosing a controversial topic, it's looking like a lively debate.

My sense so far is that the majority of Americans do believe guns are needed, while the majority of Brits don't quite see it that way, and everyone has examples of why they're right (of course).

One thing to keep in mind is that there are many parts of America that are not actually very civilsed at all. As a whole, it "was", at one time, far more civilized than it is today, but that is in the past. Certainly plenty of posts pointing out dangerous American cities.

The reality is that if guns were taken away from Americans, things would get even uglier, probably very fast. Organized crime would be one thing, gangs, etc.

But consider the economy! Most Americans have been spoiled by the power of the US Dollar, and that may be going away now. Plenty of "law abiding" Americans will soon consider other pursuits, such as breaking into their neighbor's home. Materialism is so powerful today, if this Depression gets much worse, there will be hell to pay!

Now is NOT the time to take away guns. Not to mention, Americans haven't been subjected to the levels of brainwashing on this issue that Europeans have. Sure, lots of brainwashing in other departments, but probably wait a couple more decades on the gun thing.

EVENTUALLY, the whole world will follow the wussy-way, as it is a requirement before finalizing the NWO.

Has anyone ever heard of good slaves with guns? No, doesn't really make much sense. So, long-term, the anti-gun folks should be just fine. Their fellow slaves will probably just beat them with their fists, or use rocks. Now that's not too horrible, is it?

Which brings up another issue. Guess I could call this one sort of a "women's" issue! Guns have often been called "The Great Equalizer".

But it's not really just a women's issue! We live in a technological age, many people (men too!), do not have the training, strength or means to effectively oppose even a small, but determined adversary. How about older folks?

The pistol easily qualifies as that device that helps to level the playing field.

But that's not the gun's most important function! Guns are amazing things. Even when people don't have them, they're still so feared by the "bad guys", that they literally ACT differently! Isn't that neat?

The concept is called different things, but you could call it a "constructive threat", and it is operative wherever the criminal element has reason to believe that guns "could" be present . Sadly, this wonderful thing, is completely absent in gun-controlled societies! What a shame.

People have been pointing out various cases to support some of these assertions, but really folks, COMMON SENSE needs a place in this candy-ars world we live in.

Let's play "What if"!!

What if, YOU were a mother, or a father, and you happened to be poor?? So sad. Well, in America, you're pretty screwed usually, because you might just find yourself living in a horrid ghetto! (Hey, this isn't Switzerland or Sweden for crying out loud...diversity you know.)

ANYWAY, let's say you're a mom -- no, a GRANDMOTHER! And you are pretty much raising your grandkids, because your country's CIA has sold drugs to your daughter, and she really is in no shape to raise kids. It's a rough neighborhood! Some of the young punks really don't give a damn about respecting age anymore (Hey, this isn't exactly Japan you know!).

Well, Grandma is of the Old School, she actually feels RESPONSIBLE for her grandkids. Now, please tell me, how on earth can Grandma even hope to be "responsible", and protect kids, in the situation life has handed her?

WELL, she is lucky after all! She happens to live in a country that still "allows" her to have a gun. She does in fact own a Great Equalizer, and the funniest thing! The punks found out one day that she had one, and now they tend to bother other people. What a surprise!! Baffling really.

I still have my American Jewish Gun League pamphlet entitled, "Gun Control Kills Kids!" A great read, has a kid on the cover watching his "Grandpa Jack" cleaning his rifle. An informative conversation takes place, as grandpa educates his grandson about what gun control is REALLY about.

Why would Jews care so much? Remember, they NEVER FORGET! Fortunately, others have already posted about Hitler, one of the most infamous gun-controllers in history.

Folks, wake up! Let's make it simple: Gun control kills kids!!

JR



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by xavi1000
reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


You are clearly not very well informed about history.Hitler was not opposed .German vote for him and admire it
LOL. Have you ever heard of Neville Chamberlain? Does "peace in our time" mean nothing to you?


.When Soviet union crushed, reason was not soviet citizens armed with guns but coup.
edit on 15-12-2010 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)
I truly feel that I am having a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Go in peace I hope your ignorance brings you no harm.



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 06:56 PM
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It is time to speak plainly for the good citizens and patriots of this nation who believe unendingly in the Constitution of the United States of America.

Though foreign governments may disarm their subjects, we will not go down that road. We will not disarm and see our freedoms stripped away. The lessons of history are numerous, clear, and bloody.

A disarmed population inevitably becomes an enslaved population. A disarmed population is without power, reduced to childlike obedience to-and dependence upon - the organs of a parental state. A disarmed population will lose-either piecemeal or in one sweeping act - those basic rights for which the citizens of America risked their lives and fortunes over 200 years ago.

We Will Not Disarm.

The right to self-protection-the internal directive of every living creature, be it mouse or man is the most fundamental right of all. It is a right that must be exercised against the predators of the streets, against the predators hidden within agencies of law enforcement, and against the most dangerous predators of all - those to be found in government, whose insidious grasping for power is relentless and never-ending.

We Will Not Disarm.

Not in the face of robbers, rapists and murderers who prey upon our families and friends. Nor in the face of police and bureau agents who would turn a blind eye to the Constitution, who would betray the birthright of their countrymen; nor in the face of politicians of the lowest order-those who pander to the ignorant, the weak, the fearful, the naive; those indebted to a virulent strain of the rich who insulate themselves from the dangers imposed upon other Americans and then preach disarmament.

* We will not surrender our handguns.
* We will not surrender our hunting arms.
* And we will not surrender our firearms of military pattern or military utility, nor their proper furnishings, nor the right to buy, to sell, or to manufacture such items.

Firearms of military utility, which serve well and nobly in times of social disturbance as tools of defense for the law-abiding, serve also in the quiet role of prevention, against both the criminal and the tyrannical. An armed citizenry the well-regulated militia of the Second Amendment, properly armed with military firearms - is a powerful deterrent, on both conscious and subconscious levels, to those inclined toward governmental usurpation's.

An armed citizenry stands as a constant reminder to those in power that, though they may violate our rights temporarily, they will not do so endlessly and without consequence. And should Americans again be confronted with the necessity of - may God forbid it - throwing off the chains of a tyrannical and suffocating regime, firearms designed to answer the particular demands of warfare will provide the swiftest and most decisive means to this end.

Any law which prohibits or limits a citizen's possession of firearms of military utility or their proper furnishings, provides an open window through which a corrupt government will crawl to steal away the remainder of our firearms and our liberties. Any law which prohibits or limits a citizen's possession of firearms of military utility or their proper furnishings, being directly contrary to the letter and spirit of the Second Amendment, is inimical to the Constitution, to the United States of America, and to its citizens.

Now-today-we are witnessing the perilous times foreseen by the architects of the Constitution. These are times when our government is demanding - in the guise of measures for the common good - the relinquishment of several rights guaranteed to Americans in the Constitution, foremost among which is the right to keep and bear arms for our own defense. These are times when our government has abdicated its primary responsibility-to provide for the security of its citizens. Swift and sure punishment of outlaws is absent, and in its place is offered the false remedy of disarming the law-abiding. Where this unconstitutional action has been given the force of law, it has failed to provide relief and has produced greater social discord. This discord in turn now serves as the false basis for the demand that we give up other rights, and for the demand for more police, more agents of bureaucratic control to enforce the revocation of these rights.

Legislators, justices and law officers must bear in mind that the foundation of their duties is to uphold the fundamental law of the land-the Constitution. They must bear in mind that the unconstitutional act of disarming one's fellow citizens will also disarm one's parents, spouse, brothers, sisters, children and children's children. They must bear in mind that there are good citizens who - taking heed of George Washington's belief that arms are the liberty teeth of the people-will not passively allow these teeth to be torn out. There are good citizens who-taking heed of Benjamin Franklin's admonition that those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety-will surrender not one of their rights. Those who eat away at our right to own and use firearms are feeding on the roots of a plant over two centuries old, a plant whose blossom is the most free, most powerful nation ever to exist on the face of this planet.

The right to keep and bear arms is the tap root of this plant. All other rights were won at the point of a gun and will endure only at the point of a gun. Could they speak, millions upon millions of this world's dead souls would testify to this truth. Millions upon millions of the living can so testify today. Now - today - isa critical moment in our history.

Will we Americans passively lie down before a government grown disdainful of its best citizens? Or will we again declare:

WE are the government, government functions at our behest, and it may not rescind our sacred rights? Will we place our faith in public servants who behave like our masters? Or will we place our faith in the words and deeds of the daring, far-seeing men and women whose blood, sweat and tears brought forth this great nation?

Will we believe those who assure us that the police officer will shield us from the criminal? Or will we believe our eyes and ears, presented every day with news of our unarmed neighbors falling prey in their homes, on our streets, in our places of work and play?

Will we bow our heads to cowards and fools who will not learn and do not understand the lessons of human history? Or will we stand straight and assume the daily tasks and risks that liberty entails? Will we ignore even the lessons of this present era-which has seen the cruel oppression of millions on the continents of Europe, Asia, Africa and South America-and believe that the continent of North America is immune to such political disease? Or will we wisely accept the realities of this world, wisely listen to and make use of the precautions provided by our ancestors?

Will we be deceived by shameless liars who say that disarmament equals safety, helplessness equals strength, patriotism equals criminality? Or will we mark the words of our forefathers, who wrote in plain language: The right of the people tokeep and bear arms shall not be infringed?

Let us make known: We will choose the latter option in every case.

Legislators: Do your duty to your country. Uphold the Constitution as you swore to do. Do not shame yourselves by knocking loose the mighty keystone of this great republic - the right to bear arms.

Justices: Do your duty to your country. Examine the origins of our right to weaponry and uphold the letter and spirit of the Constitution.

Lawmen: Do your duty to your country. Do not be misguided and misused. Your task is to serve and to protect-not to oppress, to disarm and to make helpless your countrymen. To the blind, the ignorant, the apathetic, the safe and sheltered, these may seem to be concerns of another age. They are not. They are as vital as they ever have been through history. For times may change but human nature does not. And it is to protect forever against the evil in human nature that the Founding Fathers set aside certain rights as inviolable.

For these reasons we must now make known:

We will not passively take the path that leads to tyranny. We will not go down that road. We Will Not Disarm.

Author Unknown: ( from Soldier of Fortune magazine, October 1994.)



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by kevinunknown
To me guns are inherently evil objects that have been designed to kill our fellow man and therefore are evil as is to use a gun to kill.


A gun is a tool. The person behind the trigger is evil. If someone killed another person with a hammer, would you ban hammers?


Originally posted by kevinunknown
.....but surly if it were the case that gun’s were outlawed or heavily regulated it would lead to a overall reduction in the number of firearms owned and therefore the odds of someone pulling a gun on you would be greatly reduced therefore you wouldn’t have to own a fire arm and the odds would fall further.


Not really. Scumbags will always find a way to get a firearm.


Originally posted by kevinunknown
In any case you can never be sure it’s going to help your odds, if two gun men mug you or break into your house you’re already on the losing side.


Not if I have a weapon.



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by xavi1000

Thanks,we humans can solve every issue with words ,we dont need guns

You know this old quote : word is stronger than sword
edit on 15-12-2010 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)


We cannot solve "every issue with words"... This is a sign of ignorance of history, and the lessons people should learn from such history.

Many times the only way to solve problems, such as the struggle for freedom, unfortunately was and can only be attained through the use of weapons, and including the use of firearms.

You have to be very naive to beleive that words can solve "every problem"... Tell that to the over 2.5 million Christians that were murdered by Arab militias in Sudan from 1983-2003, or the 500,000+ black Muslim murdered in the second Sudanese jihad by Arab Muslims from 2003 til not too long ago, if it has stopped, with the consent of the Islamic government of Sudan, or the constant murders that are still occurrng today at the hands of communist forces in Burma against unarmed villagers, or the several dozens othe conflicts and wars were unarmed innocent people are being murdered or forced to flee because they could not, and cannot protect themselves without firearms...

You sir are extremely ignorant of what really is happening around the world, but you are not the only one...

edit on 15-12-2010 by ElectricUniverse because: errors



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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I'm sorry, I couldn't contain myself long enough to read past the first page. OP is clearly living in a different universe. I firmly believe that if everyone were REQUIRED to educate themselves about, own, and carry a gun, the crime rate would be near non-existent. I'm proud to say I own multiple handguns and long guns, and I fully intend to acquire more. And if the government tries to take them away, I guess I will just have to join the thousands of criminals that are still going to have them no matter how heavily regulated they are. I will not be caught with my pants down. I know too many people who have had their lives SAVED by firearms to swallow that load of crap. Sure, go ahead and rip up the first and second amendment... and prepare for another uprising while you're at it. America is on edge my friend, we are tired of people like you trying to squash our rights further into the ground. Besides, if guns had never been made, criminals would use knives. Take those away and they would just use boards with nails driven in them.

Maybe you should check out some facts before you go making careless statements. (Need more?)

By the way, if you can't agree with the founding fathers then in my eyes you can't go making any sort of statement about what America should or should not do, and you can feel free to not take residence here.

"Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can." --Samuel Adams

"Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." --John Adams

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." --Thomas Jefferson

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms in his own lands." --Thomas Jefferson

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun." --Patrick Henry
edit on 15-12-2010 by duke396 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by xavi1000
Bad comparation again ,Hitler killed 6 milions jews ,when they were arrested they were all without guns ? NOT.


...it is not bad a comparation, it is a bad EXCUSE on your part...

YES, Jewish people were disarmed and they could not defend themselves...

Learn some real history, pick up a book or two about the holocaust...



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 07:33 PM
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This guy made this thread as a star/flag grabbing scheme. Nobody is that stupid.

Right?



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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"A free people ought to be armed."
- George Washington

"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth."
- George Washington

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
- George Washington

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense."
- John Adams:

"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians."
- George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
- Noah Webster

"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster

"A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace."
- James Madison

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."
- James Madison

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison

"The ultimate authority resides in the people alone."
- James Madison

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... and include all men capable of bearing arms."
- Richard Henry Lee

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker

"... arms ... discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.... Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them."
- Thomas Paine

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts

" ... for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
- Alexander Hamilton



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 07:42 PM
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How's this for a few excellent reasons to defend our 2nd amendment rights?.....watch....

www.youtube.com...

Don't really expect a European to understand why most Americans are so adamant about it, but that's OK.


And after you watch that one....enjoy a vid of one of the best rock songs ever. Made by the same guy


www.youtube.com...


Mods if the first link is repost feel free to delete.



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 07:44 PM
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Well, I live in sunny San Diego just a short drive from Tijuana Mexico. Now you may have heard of a little thing called the Mexican drug cartels. They killed what.. 7000 people in the last year alone. Now If there was no right to bear arms in the good ol' USA then if some violent cartel murder squad came charging across the border to take a few heads off machete style, we would have to wait for the police to arrive or the army, to take care of the situation. Really in this scenario I think we would be sitting ducks, we would all die.

Now the way things are here, with our scary second amendment, and our love of guns and freedom, the scenario plays out differently. You come charging in for blood and you walk into a minefield my friend. See each home you hit, you don't know if your gonna get a timid anti-gun hippy, a battle hardened gang-banger with a small arsenal of illegal firearms, or a gun lover polishing his favorite large hunting rifle capable of taking down a 7 point stag a mile off. That's the beautiful thing about the USA.

Now I want to make another point
Keeping guns as a defense against the tyranny of the state is not crazy. I am offended by your casual insult.
The best defense against tyranny is a well armed populace. We have it and you can't take it away. Ever.
The day they strip away the second amendment is the day every citizen should find a way to buy a gun illegally and carry it openly and march on Washington to demand that they immediately withdraw their actions. A million man+machine-gun march.



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by guyopitz
The best defense against tyranny is a well armed populace. We have it and you can't take it away. Ever.

Ok, mate i understand your points very well.We have just different opinions.
Imo The best defense against tyranny is a well educated and good informed populace.And i don't want you to take right to gun and i can't ,we are just debating




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