Declassified Papers Show U.S. Recruited Ex-Nazis

reply to post by jerico65


From my understanding, the body was found in loose sand, encrusted with a red clay very native to a certain region in Paraguay....also the initial identification was made using dental records that a Dr.Blaske (hitler's personal dentist...and nazi loyalist) had recalled from memory sometime before his death in 1959....this dental record recollection was then used by another dentist to attempt to identify skull found. It is late, but I will comment on the DNA results in 1998 later.

Originally posted by bsbray11
You're trying to justify the US bringing these sick people over here and giving them jobs and protecting them, are you not?

Am I? Once again, point out my exact quote where I say that the bringing over of these officers was justified. I've challenged you how many times? And you still fail.

I didn't say that the Gestapo wasn't in the business of killing Jews. Go back and reread my posts. I said that wasn't their only business. You seem to keep missing that.

Someone asked why would the US want these guys. I said for fighting Soviets. The Gestapo had counterintelligence offices; don't you think that US Counterintelligence Officers were interested in Gestapo contacts, assets, and informants that were behind the Iron Curtain after the war was over???

I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying that's probably why the US was interested in these guys.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Yep, now that you mention it, that's exactly what America needs. Thanks again for taking the high road, Jerry.

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger


To demonize everyone who joined the Nazi party is a disservice to the truth. Again, I point out that one of the most famous "Nazis" was Oskar Schindler, who single handedly saved more than 1200 people from the death camps.

Yep, I've seen 'Schindler's List' too...and nowadays I ride Schindler's Lifts.
Something about both of them having mass trasport of people.

Actually, Schindler was a factory owner and wasn't in transportation, but hey, if you want to make light of a man that did his best and risked it all to save 1200 people, knock yourself out.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by bsbray11
You're trying to justify the US bringing these sick people over here and giving them jobs and protecting them, are you not?

Am I? Once again, point out my exact quote where I say that the bringing over of these officers was justified.

Well if you don't think bringing the Gestapo over here was justified, then you must surely agree with me that it wasn't justified and so we don't really have anything to be arguing about.

So now we just wait and see if you have to get the last word in about how we had to have the Nazi propagandists and Gestapo over here to win the "Cold War." Because it seems to me that's all you've been doing through this whole thread anyway and it's not what someone who disapproves would be arguing.

I didn't say that the Gestapo wasn't in the business of killing Jews. Go back and reread my posts.

I remember what you said "bad boy," it was what you didn't say that interested me. You ignored and then tried to downplay the fact that the Gestapo were in the business of killing Jews and homosexuals and all the others, even saying you thought it was some other agency doing all of that and not the Gestapo. It's on the last thread page over. You haven't bothered once to make note of the atrocities the Gestapo committed in this thread.

Someone asked why would the US want these guys. I said for fighting Soviets. The Gestapo had counterintelligence offices; don't you think that US Counterintelligence Officers were interested in Gestapo contacts, assets, and informants that were behind the Iron Curtain after the war was over???

Police are often interested in what criminals know, too, but since when do we make it a happen of letting them roam free and even protect them and employ them (as we did propagandists and etc.) after they would have faced very serious charges, just because they know "something"?

I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying that's probably why the US was interested in these guys.

And in return, I'm interested in who made these decisions, who's responsibility it would have been to prevent this kind of stuff and why investigations and legal actions weren't taken. But as the fact that this stuff about harboring Gestapo was classified up until very recently goes to show, we're just kept in the dark by a military/industrial/intelligence complex with no oversight, and if they think we the people will disapprove of something they take upon themselves without proper authority, they just won't tell us about it. That's a nasty, nasty habit to get into and completely contrary to the ideals this country was founded on, and is supposed to still operate on.

Wow this thread reeks of double standards and hypocrisy!

The same people who are defending gestapo and the Nazi scientists who used human subjects are the first ones to label people 'anti-semite' when others question the holocaust or the real Nazi agenda in other threads.

While the Holocaust gets shuvd down our throats through every way possible to cover up the zionist crimes.Why don't we have huge memorials,tax payer funded museums and multi-million dollar financial rewards for the 40-50 million Russian Christians who died under Stalin and Trotsky?

Historians should be given a free hand to look and research into the historical 'facts' that we have been told until now instead of arresting or stigmatising them with 'anti-semite' or 'enemy of the state' BS.In Europe you can get arrested for even thinking of anything like that.

reply to post by bsbray11

But we weren't known for that during or after WW2

I would have to point out that some American soldiers took souvenirs from Japanese soldiers that they had killed in WWII, which isn't exact wholesome. And as much as my understanding of the American/Japanese sections of WWII are even rustier than my understanding of the afro-european parts, I think that it's a safe bet that pretty horrific things were done to japanese prisoners of war.

People don't change. The "good old days" just seem better because they've had more coats of whitewash since they happened.


NB - I'm not saying that there weren't good american soldiers in the war, and I'm not saying that there was no reason for the "bad" ones to do the terrible things that they did - but being able to explain what people did does not excuse it.

I don't really see what all the fuss is about.

We had the choice to employ certain Nazis or let the Soviets get them first. So we employed them to our benefit. Rocket scientists, jet engine designers, and advanced weaponry specialists. Seeing Stalin killing his people wholesale, as one poster said nearly 40 million, I think it was a necessary choice.

Does this mean I am a Nazi sympathizer? Oh hell no - I would haved loved to have personally put a bullet in Josef Mengele, or Hitler's head. My dad fought the Germans in WW2, earning 5 battlestars in theater ops from the landings in North Africa to DDay. He instilled in me a great love for the German people, as well as a terrible rage against what Hitler's bunch of thugs did.

I still contend that most Nazi party members simply had to join, just to protect their livelyhood and families, and that a good number of them did their best to shield those gypsies, jews, homosexuals and others who were being singled out for extermination.

WW2 was both a low point in human history and high point as well. Coming off the worst world-wide depression ever seen, an entire generation stood up against the darkness of madmen's dreams, all the world over, and people from many countries united to oppose it.

WW2 is both a testament to the depths of human depravity and a testament of human potential.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Good catch.

Worth repeating:

So the very same folks whom we had to eradicate from their evil deeds against humanity and plans to rule the world were basically pulled on board and given asylum here. Never mind their crimes against humanity-they had something to offer our intelligence branches, so they get a free pass. lol

Sounds almost like our current bunch of war criminals, running around doing speaking tours and getting cushy book deals. The more things change, the more they remain the same.

...It's beyond hypocrisy, isn't it? Is there a word for this kind of thing? (In arguments as well as life?)

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

Good catch.

Worth repeating:

So the very same folks whom we had to eradicate from their evil deeds against humanity and plans to rule the world were basically pulled on board and given asylum here. Never mind their crimes against humanity-they had something to offer our intelligence branches, so they get a free pass. lol

Sounds almost like our current bunch of war criminals, running around doing speaking tours and getting cushy book deals. The more things change, the more they remain the same.

...It's beyond hypocrisy, isn't it? Is there a word for this kind of thing? (In arguments as well as life?)

Yeah great catch.

We weren't the ones then nor are we now, Shoveling Men, Women and Children of all races into ovens OR attempting the extermination of any one race in particular. Sure some former politicians deserve to be bashed even charged but apples and oranges.

reply to post by SLAYER69


??? ....Not sure what you mean SLAYER69.

We weren't the ones then nor are we now, Shoveling Men, Women and Children of all races into ovens OR attempting the extermination of any one race in particular. Sure some former politicians deserve to be bashed even charged but apples and oranges.

My point was that although we went to war to stop the atrocities, we turned around and hired the guys who were committing said atrocities. I also pointed out that such double-dealing continues.

My question was, "What's the word for that kind of amplified hypocrisy?"

Not apples and oranges, imho.

Originally posted by frozenspark
Operation Paperclip.. nothing new.

God knows for what purpose they were recruited. MK Ultra? Create AIDS? Sterilize population? Disclosure of THAT would be monumental.

You can't honestly believe the Government invented AIDS?...

Originally posted by bsbray11
Well if you don't think bringing the Gestapo over here was justified, then you must surely agree with me that it wasn't justified and so we don't really have anything to be arguing about.

Where is my quote? Where is my quote stating that I was agreeing with what happened? Where does it say that I was justifying it all? You accused me of that, and now you're tap dancing and back-peddling your way out of it. Ain't gonna work.

I want the exact quote from me stating that I thought this all was a good idea and justified it. You seem to have all the answers, so come up with it.

Originally posted by bsbray11
So now we just wait and see if you have to get the last word in about how we had to have the Nazi propagandists and Gestapo over here to win the "Cold War." Because it seems to me that's all you've been doing through this whole thread anyway and it's not what someone who disapproves would be arguing.

Once again, come up with the exact quote from me justifying it all. Where is it? I want to see it.

Someone asked why would the US have taken in these officers, and I gave reason. You got your panties in a bunch over things I wrote in the past and accused me of justifying their actions. Now, I'm wanting to see where I said it was a fantastic idea.

Originally posted by bsbray11
I remember what you said "bad boy," it was what you didn't say that interested me. You ignored and then tried to downplay the fact that the Gestapo were in the business of killing Jews and homosexuals and all the others, even saying you thought it was some other agency doing all of that and not the Gestapo. It's on the last thread page over. You haven't bothered once to make note of the atrocities the Gestapo committed in this thread.

No, I didn't. I said that the Gestapo wasn't just some "Jew Hunting" group, and that they had their hands in all sorts of things. I said that I believe that the SD was the main group that was search out for Jews, and that Gestapo was doing a lot more than just that.

So, come up with that post of mine where I said keeping these officers was justified, or start making with the apologies.

Maybe theirs a connection, between the Federal reserve starting in 1913, the rockefellers, hitlers dream of socialism and world domiantion, inlfuencing our governement, to bring in socialism? that takes time to do it sneaky...decades.

Originally posted by ziggy1706
Maybe theirs a connection, between the Federal reserve starting in 1913, the rockefellers, hitlers dream of socialism and world domiantion, inlfuencing our governement, to bring in socialism? that takes time to do it sneaky...decades.

Ofcourse theres a connection.

The Wallstreet and Rothschilds funded Hitler.

The Zionists have total control over Federal Reserve.

Hitler founded israel.

Connect all the dots and see where it leads to.

Originally posted by TheWill

But we weren't known for that during or after WW2

I would have to point out that some American soldiers took souvenirs from Japanese soldiers that they had killed in WWII, which isn't exact wholesome.

Again, I don't doubt some of our soldiers committed horrific acts. And we also dropped those two nukes on Japan.

But what I was pointing out was that Germans tended to want to surrender to Americans rather than Soviets. The Germans and Soviets were both much more brutal than the Americans were, at that time. You're not disputing that are you? Because that's what I'm posting.

Originally posted by jerico65
Where is my quote? Where is my quote stating that I was agreeing with what happened? Where does it say that I was justifying it all? You accused me of that, and now you're tap dancing and back-peddling your way out of it. Ain't gonna work.

You're the one doing the back-peddling. If you really deny what you post, you would be happy to state the opposite. But every time I invite you to, you just keep asking me to prove where you state your feelings explicitly. That's a childish game and it doesn't work.

Originally posted by bsbray11
So now we just wait and see if you have to get the last word in about how we had to have the Nazi propagandists and Gestapo over here to win the "Cold War." Because it seems to me that's all you've been doing through this whole thread anyway and it's not what someone who disapproves would be arguing.

Once again, come up with the exact quote from me justifying it all. Where is it? I want to see it.

Someone asked why would the US have taken in these officers, and I gave reason. You got your panties in a bunch over things I wrote in the past and accused me of justifying their actions. Now, I'm wanting to see where I said it was a fantastic idea.

The problem is that your "reason" that you give is just as morbid as the whole situation itself. And when I point that out, instead of agreeing, you keep bickering with me and ignoring the faults of the Gestapo and others to try to paint them in a more glowing light. That isn't something you've done explicitly, it's something you've done by ignoring their atrocities and pretending the reasons we had for bringing them back were excusable.

So, come up with that post of mine where I said keeping these officers was justified, or start making with the apologies.

I'll make my apology when you explicitly say that the US had no justification for bringing back Gestapo, propagandists (which you won't even MENTION) and others.

Until then you're just hiding behind your unwillingness to say what you REALLY think, but I can still tell.

reply to post by bsbray11

But what I was pointing out was that Germans tended to want to surrender to Americans rather than Soviets. The Germans and Soviets were both much more brutal than the Americans were, at that time. You're not disputing that are you? Because that's what I'm posting

Sorry, the way you'd said it made it sound to me like you meant that the USA's soldiers used to be nice and now they've all turned into baby-killers.

Do remember that the Germans and Soviets had been in the war longer, and had more time to build up resentment - as well as which, the battle was at home for them, and so everything they cared about was at the mercy of the enemy. Not saying that you implied otherwise, just pointing out that a soviet having a stronger tendency to eviscerate captive germans than an american might is not necessarily down to national character.

Originally posted by TheWill
Not saying that you implied otherwise, just pointing out that a soviet having a stronger tendency to eviscerate captive germans than an american might is not necessarily down to national character.

I don't think the Holocaust was because of "national character," as you put it, either. Most Germans had no idea it was even going on, thanks to the cunning of the Nazi propagandists who had commandeered mass media, and some US "authority" decided to bring those guys back to the states too.


The only thing I'm waiting for now in this thread is for jerico to just say he doesn't think bringing back Gestapo and propaganda experts was a good idea. Every time I press him to actually state his opinion, he just starts asking a bunch of rhetorical questions ("Am I?" "Did I say that?", etc etc). By his complete unwillingness to even suggest it was a bad move, it's pretty obvious to me that his whole point in being here is to defend the "integrity" of Nazi Gestapo and propagandists.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger


To demonize everyone who joined the Nazi party is a disservice to the truth. Again, I point out that one of the most famous "Nazis" was Oskar Schindler, who single handedly saved more than 1200 people from the death camps.

Yep, I've seen 'Schindler's List' too...and nowadays I ride Schindler's Lifts.
Something about both of them having mass trasport of people.

Actually, Schindler was a factory owner and wasn't in transportation, but hey, if you want to make light of a man that did his best and risked it all to save 1200 people, knock yourself out.

Oooh touchy!

I don't think he did his best. He didn't do too badly, but certainly there was room for improvement. I know he wasn't in transportation, but how did he procure his 'workers'?

He certainly wasn't Liam Neeson.

Originally posted by bsbray11
You're the one doing the back-peddling. If you really deny what you post, you would be happy to state the opposite. But every time I invite you to, you just keep asking me to prove where you state your feelings explicitly. That's a childish game and it doesn't work.

Nah, sorry, Gus. No backpeddling here. Just want you to prove it. I want the exact quote where I said it was justified. Instead, all I get is tap-dancing, backpeddling and deflection on your part.

Originally posted by bsbray11
The problem is that your "reason" that you give is just as morbid as the whole situation itself. And when I point that out, instead of agreeing, you keep bickering with me and ignoring the faults of the Gestapo and others to try to paint them in a more glowing light. That isn't something you've done explicitly, it's something you've done by ignoring their atrocities and pretending the reasons we had for bringing them back were excusable.

Ignoring their faults? Really? All I said is that the Gestapo had a lot more on their plate than just "Jew Hunting". They shot their own people, looters, Allied POWs, they worked counter-intelligence in Germany and Occupied Territories. I didn't see where I was ignoring atrocities and making excuses. What, you want me to comment about that picture you posted? Talking about people being taken out and shot in the head give you some sort of cheap thrill? Sorry, I'm not going to fuel your perversions. Take it to some other board.

Originally posted by bsbray11
I'll make my apology when you explicitly say that the US had no justification for bringing back Gestapo, propagandists (which you won't even MENTION) and others.

Until then you're just hiding behind your unwillingness to say what you REALLY think, but I can still tell.

edit on 13-12-2010 by bsbray11 because: (no reason given)

And we have another deflection by Bsbray11!!