Jesus Is NOT The Literal Son of God!!!

reply to post by Sahabi
Sahabi,

Since you are not a Christian it's hard for me to understand why you want to fuss about whether Jesus is the actual Son of God. You indicate you have some faith in the O.T. but not the new. Jesus and new testament is the fulfillment of the old so you make me wonder. I find both are invaluable but I don't press that on to no one. I feel I've given you points to consider was my only goal.

Truthiron.

reply to post by Sahabi

I don't think that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit into the world for no reason.
I have to think that people who feel it, and respond to it, are making use of what it was intended for.
It would be hard for me to envision someone with the indwelling of God's spirit to be thrown into the flames, regardless of what religion they think they are receiving it through.
Now I am not sanctioning free-for-all inventions of new religions because the evil one is about and has another kind of spirit ready for the unwary. Jesus the person, as described in the Gospels, is a good guide to test the spirits because if it tells you to do something that he would not have, then you should know to flee from it.

In the Mosque of Omar, around the stone of Abraham, written in Arabic, it says Alla had no son. But in the Koran, it says Allah had three daughters. el-Lat, el-Uzza, and Manat
That seems to me to nullify any Muslim argument about Christianity being blasphemous for claiming God had a son.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
In the Mosque of Omar, around the stone of Abraham, written in Arabic, it says Alla had no son. But in the Koran, it says Allah had three daughters. el-Lat, el-Uzza, and Manat.

edit on 10-12-2010 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Hello again

The Qur'an does not say Allah has three daughters. This is what the Qur'an says about God's offspring:

Qur'an
Surah Ikhlas (Purity)
112:1-4

Say: He is Allah, The One, The Only! Allah, The Eternal, The Absolute; He begets not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.

You are referring to what Muhammad said on his on behalf, not in the Qur'an or God's words.
This is what Muhammad said,
"Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-‘Uzzá and Manāt, the third, the other? These are the exalted gharāniq, whose intercession is hoped for."

There is no intercession to be hoped for because God says this in the Qur'an:

Qur'an
Surah Baqarah (The Cow)
2:122-123

O children of Israel, call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations. And be on your guard against a day when no soul shall avail another in the least neither shall any compensation be accepted from it, nor shall intercession profit it, nor shall they be helped.

Qur'an
Surah Al-An'am (Cattle)
6:51

And preach with this (Quran) to those who reverence the summoning before their Lord - they have none beside Him as a Lord and Master, nor an intercessor - that they may attain salvation.

This is what is written in the Qur'an in regards to those three pagan idols:

Qur'an
Surah An Najm (The Star)
53:19-23

Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! These are nothing but names which ye have devised, ye and your fathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

Originally posted by jmdewey60
That seems to me to nullify any Muslim argument about Christianity being blasphemous for claiming God had a son.

edit on 10-12-2010 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

I am not a Muslim. I left Islam ealier this year.
Your argument was not factual to nullify Islam's stance on God having no children and sharing divinity with none.

I am debating on my own behalf in hopes to tear down the global disunity that Christianity and Islam has manifested. Separation based on ideology into believers and non-believers, those worthy of Paradise and those worthy of Fire. We are all human beings, labels mean nothing. Our character and deeds is what make us good people, not religion.

I have my bone to pick with Muslims too.
But we are talking Christianity and the Bible here.
Fault finding another religion doesn't help your case to prove Jesus is as much God's son as I am.
Jesus was a more righteous and wise man than me, but he isn't Divine.

reply to post by Sahabi

Fault finding another religion doesn't help your case to prove Jesus is as much God's son as I am.

Pointing out what a religion believes is not fault finding.
Tying to make yourself (not you specifically but a you as in you-all in a general sense) and your own religion seem superior by making claims based on assumptions is hypocritical, and hypocrisy is fair game.
I am not trying to prove the divinity of Jesus but to prove that Christianity, by definition, believes in the divinity of Jesus.

Christians believe that Jesus is Emanuel who was foretold of by Isaiah the prophet of the Old testament.
Emanuel is God with Us, meaning God Himself has come to Earth to dwell among us.
By contrast, the Koran teaches that anyone who believes that Jesus is the Son of God is guilty of the greatest blasphemy imaginable.
I do not believe that a solution lies in an amalgamation between the two religions, one will be destroyed and we know already which one that will be as the agents of unification under a single religion czar seek to undermine the Christian belief in the divinity of Christ. What we will end up with is a belief in killing anyone who does not fall into uniformity and accept a hybrid man made religion that suites the needs of a centralized, controlled world system that caters to an elite at the expense of the general public. A new Roman Empire which this time Christ will destroy by force. Jesus presented the solution to world problems and has given the world time to adopt the ways of God, and when they crucify Jesus again in the minds of all who have believed in him then the world will be thrown into a chaos the likes of which has never been seen before. Jesus is God Himself who instead of an intermediary between God and man like Moses, He has come in the flesh to create a new priesthood of all believers to heal the nations.

Originally posted by Sahabi

Am I against Christianity? No.

Agree. Everyone must respect each others beliefs.

Am I against God? No.

Neither am I.

I am against the disunity religion has created.

It´s not Religion mate. Only Persons in Power that using Religion as a tool of Destruction.

I am against condemning each other to death with the sword or eternal Fire for having different beliefs.

In a small context of that, i see that daily by visiting the forum about Religion Faith and Theology. A lot of people the just take a quote or quotes from the Bible out of context, personally interpreted, and try to claim Christianity is wrong. Quite sad actually.

I am against close mindedness.

Yep. Me too mate

I am against the belief that being a good person and loving our fellow humans is not good enough.

What about God??

I am against doctrine and dogma having trump over common sense and unity. True human unity.

And what´s True Human Unity??

I am against the I am right, you are wrong, you are going to hell mentality.

Yeah. Human nature is imperfect. Just take a look at the world which Humans have created.

This thread is intended to bring true human unity, not destroy faith.

Indeed. And yet this thread is offending to me as Christian.

Peace

I don't mean to knock Sahibi so hard and I don't think he is some sort of agent.
He means well but I don't think he understands the forces at work in this world and what their plans are.
There are different religions and a diversity of religions should be our launching point to keep a diversity as an indicator of the presence of freedom of conscience.
People should be free to choose but the Muslims seem to think it is their right to kill any Muslim to become not a Muslim, and especially to become Christian. If we could just stop that one thing, the world would be a better place. But Islam is nothing to do with freedom and is all about force, so I, for one, will not be welcoming into the fold Islamic fundamentalism and I do not recognise their god as being my God.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
I don't mean to knock Sahibi so hard and I don't think he is some sort of agent.
He means well but I don't think he understands the forces at work in this world and what their plans are.
There are different religions and a diversity of religions should be our launching point to keep a diversity as an indicator of the presence of freedom of conscience.
People should be free to choose but the Muslims seem to think it is their right to kill any Muslim to become not a Muslim, and especially to become Christian. If we could just stop that one thing, the world would be a better place. But Islam is nothing to do with freedom and is all about force, so I, for one, will not be welcoming into the fold Islamic fundamentalism and I do not recognise their god as being my God.

All religions in it´s essence are good. Religion is meant to be for the growth of the Spirituality in human nature.
The Only problem are those persons in power that using Religion and it´s holy books as a tool of destruction. If you take a good look at History, you will understand the Future that await´s us. And still people keep bashing other persons beliefs. Yeah. Human nature at it´s finest. Killing and more Killing. Destruction upon Destruction. Hatred upon Hatred.

Peace

reply to post by Sahabi


Your quoting scripture out of context. I agree with you(as do most Catholics) as to Jesus not being literally the son of god. (as he is God) but as I read further I understand that you basically have no clue as to what you are saying. Perhaps some rudimentary Hebrew / Greek would put your thoughts in perspective.Start with the word "firstborn" , Just an idea

reply to post by Sahabi

I am tearing down key pillars to illustrate to religious people what real love, human unity, mercy, and understanding is

You mean you're pitting your opinion against theirs. That's a hopeless battle, friend. Each of us have our own opinion of what real love, human unity, mercy, and understanding should be, but we can't all be correct, right? What we need is the opinion of someone who is above human nature. One who sees everything including the secret things in the human heart.

reply to post by Sahabi

But I do not believe condemning morally righteous...to eternal fire is something an All Loving, All Merciful God would do.

That is indeed something God would never do. But moral righteousness should not be based on our own standards but on His. The problem is that there are so many people out there preaching the Bible not to edify others but to exalt themselves in the eyes of men. Finding the truth in this world is like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack.

upright non-believers

What does this phrase mean, exactly? Non-believers in what sense? As for uprightness, it's not something we can acquire on our own. No one is good but God alone. That being the case, then all good things can only come from the Father. So ask Him. First comes humility, then comes understanding, and with it the kind of wisdom that will protect you from the principles of this world.

reply to post by Sahabi
Sahabi,

Perhaps if you believe the scripture there is some veses explains who planted Jesus in Mary the mother of Jesus. First to establish who the Holy Spirit is.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Mt 1:18 ¶ Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mt 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

I don't believe we can choose and pick what suits our idea of things as it is stated all scripture is by inspiration of God.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Yes I find Jesus was and is the Son of God and when He returns His Deity back to the Father He will then be our king and the Prince of Yahweh. Read 1 Cor. 15:24-28 to explain this, I believe I posted the verses before so all should be familiar.

He is at the present serving fully as God as He is God, He is now Reigning.

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

A little more to consider.

Truthiron.