Jesus Is NOT The Literal Son of God!!!, page 1


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Topic started on 8-12-2010 @ 08:37 PM by Sahabi
Am I against Christianity? No.
Am I against God? No.
I am against the disunity religion has created.
I am against condemning each other to death with the sword or eternal Fire for having different beliefs.
I am against close mindedness.
I am against the belief that being a good person and loving our fellow humans is not good enough.
I am against doctrine and dogma having trump over common sense and unity. True human unity.
I am against the I am right, you are wrong, you are going to hell mentality.
This thread is intended to bring true human unity, not destroy faith.




John 3:16

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."


Only begotten son? But I thought David was also God's begotten son:

Psalm 2:7

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.


God said Israel (aka Jacob) is His firstborn son.

Exodus 4:22

And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:


Oh no... God has an additional first born son!!

Jeremiah 31:9

"I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."


Solomon is also God's son.

2 Samuel 7:14

I will be his father, and he shall be my son.

1 Chronicles 22:10

he shall be my son, and I will be his father


Adam is God's son too! If Adam was the first man created and is God's son.... then how can Israel/Jacob and Ephraim all be firstborn sons of god?

Luke 3:38

Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.


But God and Jesus said all of us are children of God;

John 10:34

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


Deuteronomy 14:1

Ye are the children of the LORD your God


Romans 8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


John 1:12

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.


Philippians 2:15

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God


Job 38:7

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


Job 2:1

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD.



What was that? Jesus is divine because he was born of a virgin with no father?
• Adam had no mother and no father Genesis 2:7, Genesis 1:26-27!
• Melchizedek has no father, no mother, no descent, no beginning and no end Hebrews 7:1-4.

Jesus is divine because he was raised from the dead and/or had power to resurrect?
• Elijah raised a boy from the dead 1 Kings 17:17-24.
• Elisha raised a child from death 2 Kings 4:32-37.
• Touching Elisha's bones raised a man from the dead 2 Kings 13:21.
• Lazarus was raised from the dead John 11:43-44!


reply posted on 8-12-2010 @ 08:48 PM by dementedtheclown
reply to post by Sahabi


He's jesus's daddy, we're all his children, but we got our own daddys. n hes the only sin-free son since adam, but adam f'ed up n did what his wife said. lol


reply posted on 8-12-2010 @ 09:04 PM by pcrobotwolf
reply to post by muzzleflash


LOL ever heard of step children we are gods unwanted step children lol j/k. But seriously you need to calm down on the whole literal translation thing i don't think you speak Aramaic or ancient Hebrew so for all you know that text could have been translated wrong causing that confusion.Oh and PS its not smart to try and mess with peoples religions because you have a bias view point on the subject. I really think its funny how the non-believer and the believer share the same dream of converting the other to their point of view instead of trying to understand why they have that view in the first place.A little common sense goes a long way
edit on 8-12-2010 by pcrobotwolf because: (no reason given)
Ps didnt mean to post this at muzzleflash it was meant to be posted at the OP
edit on 8-12-2010 by pcrobotwolf because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 8-12-2010 @ 09:22 PM by truthiron
reply to post by Sahabi
Sahabi,

All those others would be adopted sons but Jesus was from Him and Mary the rest from Adam and Eve.

On another note He coucils us to be overcomers, He told the woman caught in adultry, Go sin no more. I'm not arguing about any of this but He has to make sure no one enters Heaven that will start this sin thing over again.

We are obedient as He abides in us with His Love in our hearts..

Truthiron.


reply posted on 8-12-2010 @ 10:16 PM by jmdewey60
reply to post by Sahabi
Am I against Christianity? No.

That would be like me saying, "I am not against Islam, but Mohammad was not a prophet, he was just a guy with some pretty good ideas that he came up with by himself."
Would that statement make any sense? No, and yours does not either.
1 john 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight to know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This one is the true God and eternal life.
Who is "true'?
Revelation 3:7
. . .He who is holy, who is true, who has the key of David,. . .
That's Jesus, true and holy and the revelation of God, through whom we have eternal life.
To knock out the building block of the divine nature of Jesus Christ, is to remove the cornerstone of Christianity and the structure of it has no foundation..


reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 01:51 AM by Sahabi
reply to post by muzzleflash


The concept that we are all God's children is definitely a unifying factor towards true equality.
Idolatry is a big no no in Abrahamic Religion.


reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 01:57 AM by Sahabi
reply to post by BrokenCar


Thank you for the suggestion. I'm always interested in a new read.

According to the usage of "God's son" in the Bible, I'm led to the rational conclusion that being a son of god is about moral character, not lineage. I don't see a correlation of "son of god" as being divine. We are all God's children according to the Bible.

edit on 12/9/10 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 02:04 AM by Sahabi
reply to post by dementedtheclown


Hahaha!





reply to post by pcrobotwolf


I am not trying to convert anyone.
I am tearing down key pillars to illustrate to religious people what real love, human unity, mercy, and understanding is... It has nothing to do with doctrine or dogma. Religious are too stuck on doctrine to see the lack of unity their religions are cultivating. Believe or go to hell? That's not unity or love.


reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 02:08 AM by Sahabi
reply to post by truthiron


We are all from Adam and Eve.
Jesus was from God and Mary.
Adam was from God only.
Luke 3:38 even mentions Adam as God's son.
Your logic makes Adam divine?


reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 02:08 AM by BrokenCar
reply to post by Sahabi


I agree. We are all made in God's image.
That book really touched something in me. Really good message without the bible thumping.
edit on 12/9/2010 by BrokenCar because: spelling




reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 02:18 AM by Sahabi
reply to post by jmdewey60


I'm not against Christianity. I believe it is filled with good moral teachings.
But I do not believe condemning morally righteous and upright non-believers to eternal fire is something an All Loving, All Merciful God would do.

I'm tired of the disunity caused by religion.
I'm annoyed with believers of this faith condemning believers of that faith to hell fire.
I see no Love, no Mercy, and no Human Unity in these opinions.

So I am tearing down pillars to snap people out of doctrine that causes disunity, fear, hate, and condemnation.

On topic:
God has 2 begotten sons, 3 firstborns that were born after Adam who was another son, and lots of sons.... The label "son" does not make one divine, unless we conclude Adam and God's other begotten son are divine too.


reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 10:05 AM by truthiron
reply to post by Sahabi
Sahabi,

You wrote, "Your logic makes Adam divine?"

No and especially since he fell in sin. He was created allmost equal to the angels and Satan was the highest angel and he fell. Is he now divine? No of course not. The angels too were "called" the sons of god.

Ge 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Truly it is said "only begotten son" in reference to Jesus. Jesus was of Divinity. He will be the Prince for all of eternity. Read the account in 1 Cor. 15:24-28, that is an enlightening read.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

If you discerned that you see the Son returns the Deity vested in Him back to the Father that He may be all in all again as soon as He completes the job He had to do. Jesus is Reigning now in full power.

Truthiron.


reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 10:23 AM by etherical waterwave
reply to post by Sahabi


Christianity does not exist. Christians do. There is no christianity. Christianititity ?? Nope


reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 10:59 AM by jmdewey60
reply to post by Sahabi
I'm annoyed with believers of this faith condemning believers of that faith to hell fire.

I don't know if that happens, really. I have never witnessed it myself, people condemning others to hell for having a different religion. I will say something that sounds like that once in a while but it would be to Christians who I think are subverting what they claim to be their own religion. I think people would normally get along with each other regardless of religion if it was not for politicians who use any sort of wedge they can to further their own goal. Such people are ambitious and heartless individuals who have no true religion, though they may mimic it for the purpose of public consumption.
I think political action is what is a better approach in the long run to end the strife between peoples. To establish the rule of law where people (people in positions of power such as presidents and former presidents who have started and continue existing illegal wars) who cause it are prosecuted for their crimes of creating hatred and war.

edit on 9-12-2010 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 12:20 PM by truthiron
reply to post by Sahabi
Sahabi,

We are "adopted" sons, god only had one son of his own. He calls all His sons except those who fall over to Satan and they become sons of perdition with him. Here is some verses that put some more light on the subject.

Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Then consider these verses.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The one in John probably refers to Judas and 2 Th. to Satan. God terms Satan a man. read,

Eze 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

I would say we can change tlhat relationship but I prefer to be an adopted son.

Truthiron.


reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 02:52 PM by Sahabi
reply to post by truthiron


That's the point I'm raising.
It seems "God's son" is more of an expression than a literal term.
Why is it that all of the dozen upon dozen times son of god is used you say it is is not literal, but as soon as it is applied to Jesus it is literal? So we get to pick and choose when a verse is literal or metaphoric?

You state Jesus is the "only begotten son."
What about David?

Psalm 2:7

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.



reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 03:04 PM by Sahabi
reply to post by jmdewey60


I appreciate the individual believers in Christ that take a laxed approach to condemnation.
But if you ask any church, "What happens to a moral upright person that refuses to accept Jesus?"
What will that answer be?

What happens if I live life according to morals, righteousness, love, and unity with my fellow human and nature, but I refuse to accept Jesus as Lord or Savior, I refuse to accept Jesus as Divine, I refuse to pray in Jesus' name, and I refuse the concept that Jesus is the literal Son of God?

If I am not automatically condemned, then what would be the whole point to accept this doctrine?
I used to be Christian, I'm not coming back, there is no hope for me to be subdued into belief by fear of eternal fire.
I openly testify I believe no person to ever walk this earth in the flesh is divine, not even Jesus.
My ideas of God, Creator, Life, and Existence transcends any religious ideology.
If you personally believe I am not condemned to the Fire, then I respect and thank you.


reply posted on 9-12-2010 @ 03:12 PM by Sahabi
reply to post by truthiron


Ok, so now we have sons and adopted sons.
Did you know John 3:16 was a deliberate mistranslation?
Research the most accurate translations and the word "begotten" is dropped.
But what do we see? David is still God's begotten son. It says begotten, not adopted.

Psalm 2:7

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.


Reading the Bible in it's entirety, I see that son of god is an expression. A concept to illustrate human unity. We are all God's children, we are in god and god is in us, we are gods... sounds like the concept of unity rather than divinity exclusive to Jesus.

I do not believe a word Paul said. If you can not pull understandings from the Old Testament and the Gospels, but must rely on Paul... this tells me Paul is not in synch with God or Jesus.
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