Originally posted by UK Wizard
I guess I miss the whole EU concept. For a few hundred years what you propose has been in place and we've all suffered wars and the like because of
it.
Have you been living in an alternative universe, nothing like what i propose has existed in europe.???? Explain what you mean.
Here is the essence of your beginning post-
Originally posted by UK wizard
Firstly the EU would be ended (read on please), and several independent alliances would be set up:
EFTA - European Free Trading allliance
EDF - European Defence Force
ESR - European Science Research
EFA - European Fishing Alliance
etc....
Each country would pick which organisations they wish to belong to
Remember?
This last sentence is the crux of the problem:
From the days of the Hanse Europeans have formed alliances that were protective and exclusionary. ALL were based upon economic conquest.
I will just limit my point of view to the last 200 years- from 2004 back to 1804
Let's work from the past forward
Britain (UK) and a gaggle of others that changed back and forth against France and a gaggle of others that changed back and forth.
Britain allied with Russia
During the war against the monster Napoleon Britain just happens to take Java and other possessions. Some are later restored.
France crushed (not merely defeated but crushed.) Their political institutions thrown in the trash, Britain/allies dictate terms.
Britain invades U.S.
U.S. and Britain burn each others local capitals.
Britain maintains near monopoly power in world trade.(this is REALLY what it's all about, isn't it?)
U.S. defeats Britain at New Orleans in a battle that changes nothing on the world stage except to give Britain a wake up call. Britain re-focuses on
the “far east.”
British navy continues to strangle commerce world wide.
Britain and France economically invade Mexico. France stays as pseudo-conqueror.
Britain virtually monopolizes drug trade (YIKES) India and large parts of China are under British sway. British overseas companies rake in profits
in excess of the revenues of most nations.
France holds small places in south east Asia.
Britain, France, Belgium, Holland, Italy and a few others rape Africa and Asia. Germany joins much later.
France invades northern Africa.
U.S. conquers Mexico.
British-Burmese War
Britain and France attack Russia to support Ottoman Empire.
One of my favorite conflicts:
"I believe that if this barbarous nation(Russia) the enemy of all
progress......
should once succeed in establishing itself in the heart of Europe,
it would be the greatest calamity which could befall the human race"
Lord Lyndhurst in a speech to the House of Lords
"I'll have your arm off before you know where you are"
Surgeon to Evelyn Wood, shot in the elbow
In an early instance of propaganda, British newspaper reports of the action said the Russians had fired at Turkish wounded in the water.
Louis Napoleon III, emperor of France, eager to emulate the military successes of his uncle Napoleon I
Another in a long line of Peace of Paris- Russia lost military rights but restored the status quo but proved only to be a truce which lasted until
1870 when Russia began to re-fortify the Black Sea and the Allies were unable to stop them.
Indian Army mutiny
British Persian War
Britain and France invade China for not allowing illegal drug trade!
I'll stop here, for now. This is only 1804 through 1856.
We still have 148 years to go. Two world wars, some major and minor European conflicts, the American Civil War, Spanish-American War, Viet Nam,
Korea, Russo-Japanese War, another Chinese war, enumerable rebellions and independence movements, unification movements and other conflicts make this
entire 200 year span very full of death, trade squabbles, drugs (again) and generalized misery for all but the chosen few. I left out other wars that
European nations waged upon the world as the scrambled to position themselves.
I think just this alone should be reason enough to try something different. Europeans are warlike peoples, their own history proves them so. Europe
has tried schemes similar to what you propose and they have failed.
Germany decides to sell nuclear power plants to Iran
France balks and wants it stopped
The UK dithers
Italy and Greece, after an oil deal is made, agree with Germany and the power plants are built.
Then what?
France and the UK now have no Iranian oil. Iran has a new power plant. Israel bombs - - - -
Am I missing something in your European concept?
Originally posted by UK Wizard
You are looking at a super worse case scenario, this could be applyed to any countrys
eg:
Russia decides to sell nuclear power plants to Iran
America balks and wants it stopped
The French dithers
Swiss and Germans, after an oil deal is made, agree with Russia and the power plants are built.
See, what you are saying could happen to any country not just those in Europe.
My alliance idea offers both unity and independence, it celebrates our differences, and gives countries the freedom to choose what they want to
be apart of.
Reduced Costs
Independence and Unity
Flexiabilty
No all controlling superstate
Freedom of Choice
The 'alliance' as you propose seems to me to turn the clock back. Nationalistic aspirations, supra-national corporations and trade blocks,
protectionism, economic blackmail, higher management costs (larger bureaucracies) and renewed militarism.
Every nation would ONCE AGAIN develop complete vertical monopolies.
I am not a one-worlder. I watch the FOREX daily as you might try for a while. I believe you will see historically what happens to national
currencies that become too valuable as a symbol of nationhood. The EURO will become “a” dominant currency and eventually perhaps “the” dominant
currency. In the near term very stable nations such as Germany are paying a high price for abandoning their nationalistic tendencies.
As the world hopefully progresses away from the waste of war maybe a little bit more of the waste will become useful to those young and those climbing
the economic ladder from the lower rungs.
On my “theoretical” idea of nuclear power plants- that is what happened, isn't it?
The World Today
ELEANOR HALL: While the United States battles to win hearts and minds in Iraq, in neighbouring Iran, Russia is making important diplomatic and
economic inroads. Russia is building the Islamic state's first nuclear power plant in a deal worth $800 million and thousands of jobs.
