The Future of Europe, page 1
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Topic started on 1-7-2004 @ 10:43 AM by UK Wizard
The EU has caused division in many member countries, people either love or hate the EU and it's leaders (for what ever reason)
Taking part in the NWO threads has made me come to realise that Europe needs some type of free organisation(s) but not an all powerful single alliance
The problem is that each country wants something different from other countries and this leads to countries falling out and making life really difficult for each other
Each country wants certain things in the EU that other countries don't want, well i believe i have come up with a practical solution to suit both the pro-european and anti-european needs

Firstly the EU would be ended (read on please), and several independent alliances would be set up:
EFTA - European Free Trading allliance
ESR - European Science Research
EFA - European Fishing Alliance
etc....

Each country would pick which organisations they wish to belong to, (pick and mix), the organisations would not be linked but would also not be in competion due to their different purposes and goals
Each independent alliance would have a ''council'' where each member country would have one representative, this representative would have one vote in each organisation decision.
This way the huge powers of the current EU could not be abused nor the publics money wasted. These alliances would aid both europe and america as europe could act on it's own

i would like to hear you views (both pro-european and anti-european)
and i would welcome any questions or criticisms

thank you for reading


NOTE: this thread is not just for my future vision of Europe, but rather anybodies future vision of Europe..... how would you do it?

[edit on 24-8-2004 by UK Wizard]

[edit on 28-8-2004 by UK Wizard]


reply posted on 1-7-2004 @ 12:48 PM by StrangeLands
Let me get this straight...

The main criticism levelled at the EU is that it is a beaurocratic nightmare. How exactly would replacing one monolithic entity with a handful of monolithic entities make things better? Can you imagine the administrative nightmare? You're talking about multiplying the administrative costs by a factor (at least) five, since each new organisation would produce just as much paperwork as the EU does currently (the law of beaurocracy: paperwork expand to fill the available space).

These independant organisations would result in a massive duplication of effort, even more confusion and greater misunderstandings, more convoluted democratic systems, management structures and lines of responsibility, and all of this would be funded out of the public's pocket.

Also, the idea of "one nation, one vote" is fundamentally flawed - do you really think that Luxembourg deserves the same democratic representation as Germany, or that the UK's voice should be the same as Cyprus'?

I've got to say, UK Wizard, it sounds as if you've been persuaded that the EU is a good idea, but you just don't want it to be called the EU. Surely it would better to change the existing organisation, rather than create a plethora of replacements?

I do think it's an interesting proposal, UK Wizard, and it's certainly a fascinating mental exercise, but if you're looking for an accountable, transparent, and above all democractic organisation, you'll be better off changing the EU, rather than scrapping it.

Thoughts?


reply posted on 1-7-2004 @ 02:52 PM by StrangeLands
Originally posted UK Wizard
but you can see why i want to split the EU into different alliances, due to different countries wanting different things out of the EU


You raise an interesting point. At least part of the our problem here is that the EU has compromised too much in the past - as far as I'm concerned, the EU shouldn't offer something for everyone, it should be what it is and let people join it or not as they see fit.

We in Britain don't have to join the EU. I think we should, because I think we'll benefit enormously. You guys - and double-teaming me is somewhat unfair, don't you think - think otherwise. Fair enough. But the UK, and the world, has suffered enough at the hands of compromised policies and half-assed measures. Do it, or don't. Make it work, or don't. We have the possibility, and the potential, to create something wonderful, something which will change the face of global politics and make the world safer and better for our children - or not.

We put the best people in place, and we let them do their damn jobs. If we don't agree with the outcome, then we shouldn't be part of it. But something great, nothing less than a shift in the political paradigm, is happening, and it's our decision whether or not we're part of it.

...

Sorry, guys, I'm feeling a little passionate tonight. And muppet, I respect your opinions enormously, but if you think that any governmental organisation will ever operate on a "minimum" of beaurocracy, you're nuts. No-one on the public payroll uses one page when ten will do!

Seriously, if we get behind this idea, we can make the EU something great, something we'll be proud to be part of. We don't need to change the rules of the game, we don't need to dissolve the current organisation, we just need to commit ourselves to making it work - for the benefit of the UK, and the benefit of all European citizens.

Or am I crazy?



reply posted on 2-7-2004 @ 01:58 AM by UK Patriot
Originally posted by muppet
UK Patriot,

I understand you're concerns re: the US, but with respect that is one of the worst possible reasons to commit to a federal Europe/Euro..

I strongly disagree with the idea that Britain would be "alone" without the EU, or that we will be forced to choose between two superstates.

Don't forget, :-

    Out of a world population of 6 billion people, over 5 billion of them are neither European nor American.

    Most of the worlds raw materials are not in the US or Europe.

    The fastest growing economies in the world, the ones who are our prime export targets, are not European or American.


Britain IS a global power. Not through military might, or through Europe, or through the US, but because of our international outlook, our business links, our language, and our culture.

We do business internationally, and always have done. Being an independent nation with good relationships with both powers is the best place we can be, PARTICULARLY in this modern fast changing world. Geo-politics is far more complex than simply forming a big group with your neighbours so as to be "listened to". In fact, we are in a prime economic, geographic and cultural position to gain from both relationships, as long as we don't go sacrificing one for the other.

So please, if anyone is reading this thread thinks it's a choice between the US and Europe, it's not.

Heh, I stand corrected.. It's nice not to get the usual retarded posted which only contains exsessive flaming regarding the situation with europe...

[edit on 2-7-2004 by UK Patriot]
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