Credo Mutwa says humans were "Androgynous"

Originally posted by vinay86

Thanks for your post but are you really androgynous, because i thought no one on earth is androgynous now ( Please correct me if i am wrong). Thanks again

Actually, there are several types of Androgyneous beings on Earth.
Depending on what definition you put in the term, there are, for instance, people that are truly androgyne in their Soul or Spirit, and do not identify as either Male or Female. These people, goes under the Term Intergenders.
Now, there are unfortunately alot of people nowadays just pretending to be androgyne for "Coolness", and those are not Intergenders, as the term only applyes for those truly feeling themselves to stand beyond or between genders. NOT the same as TRANSgender, mind you.

Then, there are Intersexual people; People that are born as "Hermaphrodites", as they were more commonly called earlier, befor someone came up with the odd idea that the term "Hermaphrodite" was insulting.

Anyway; Intersexual people come in several various forms. Some, are Internal Hermaphrodites and often looks "Normal" externally, but internally may have ovaries(If at birth being identified as Males), or, if identified as Female at birth, may have testicles where the Ovaries should be.
Others, truly possess more or less developed and double sets of external genitalias, OR, ambigious sets; looking like neither male or female.

Other types of Intersexual conditions goes under the form of differring Chromosomes. For instance, a "male" may possess one or even two extra X-chromosomes, instead of the "Normal" set of XY. This condition is called Kleinfelters Syndrome.
Similar conditions can be found in females and goes under several terms, for instance Turners Syndrome.

Then there are ofcourse Transgendered people. However, these people generally identify as either the one or the other gender, and not as truly being neither. If they do, they are probably more Intergendered then Transgendered.



Anyway, the list can truly be made much longer, but this is atleast the basics of it.

Originally posted by Tamahu

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
What about chimpanzees and other primates? Chimps especially since they share so much of our DNA.

They have male and female sexes too right? Were they supposed to be androgynous at one point too?

According to the teachings of the White Lodge(Samael Aun Weor, H.P. Blavatsky, Rudolf Steiner, Manly P. Hall, Dion Fortune, Max Heindel, etc.), it is said that contemporary mainstream scientists do recognize the existence of evolution(although it doesn't necessarily work the way they think it does), however contemporary mainstream scientists ignore that devolution also exists.

The Gnostic teachings explain: Devolution, Involution, Evolution and Revolution.

The Gnostic teachings also affirm that primates devolved from humanoids; and that some animals are of a devolving type, and that some other animals are of an evolving type.


Also, the Seven Root Races are:

The Polar
Hyperborean
Lemurian
Atlantean
Aryan(the current Root Race)
Koradi
The future Seventh Root Race.


Humans are said to have been androgynous up until about the middle of the Lemurian Root Race, which is when Humans are said to have divided into male and female(which is symbolized by Adam and Eve).

edit on 16-11-2010 by Tamahu because: edited text

Your claim that primates devolved from humans flies in the face of what scientists have discovered. All apes have 24 chromosomal base pairs while humans have only 23, the result of a fusion between two seperate chromosomes. This chomosome arrangement is unique among primates which indicates that the fusion occured in the human line of primates only, strong evidence that humans evolved from the apes and not the other way around.

Also, I'm guessing that the root races you listed are based on Kabalistic mysticism. Is that accurate? I would be interested to know more if you have the time to elaborate.

~peace

Just to add more information to the discussion.

Androgynous can mean "having characteristics of both male and female" OR it can mean having "genderless characteristics"

But if you're talking about asexual reproduction, it's not unheard of, check it out:

Boa Constrictor virgin birth:

Interesting topic...

reply to post by Blarneystoner


If it is a fusion that is said to have caused the chromosomal base pairs to supposedly go from 24 in apes to 23 in humans, then is not the reverse also possible? A separation, in order to go from 23 in humans to 24 in apes?


To answer your question:

Anthropogenesis, Occult Science, and Kabbalistic Mysticism

reply to post by Tamahu


It looks like it's possible for an increase in Chromosomes to occur and is documented in certain species of birds and fish, and reptiles but not in mammals.

But what about increases in chromosome number in animals? Polyploid animals don't exist, do they? Well yes, they do, though apparently not in mammals. It is possible in birds - a picture of a triploid rooster graced the cover of Science many years ago. It was rather sickly, and it is unlikely that viable, fertile tetraploids are possible. Triploid lizards do exist. There are several species of all female whiptails in the American Southwest, at least some of which are triploid. They reproduce by parthenogenesis. Some "Amazon" mollies are also triploid. They apparently arise by alloploidy. They reproduce by parthenogenesis but sperm from males of one of the parent species are necessary to stimulate egg development. I don't know that any tetraploid species of fish have been found but at least a few give evidence of being diploidised decendants of ancient tetraploids.

Source

I didn't know that it was possible...

But there may still be something to this Androgynous Human claim... I've often wondered why male mammals have nipples. Maybe Genesis has it wrong and it was Eve who was created first!

~peace


BTW - thanks for the link! I'm very curious about Kabalistic Mysticism. I like the idea of the different eras of mankind's existence, sort of similar to the Mayan beliefs. I think the Mayans have 5 or 6 different eras.

Notes: 1 - 48 chromosomes:

In his other writings, Master Samael explains that two chromosomes are etheric, corresponding to the vital body, thus modern science remains unaware of their existence and has recognized only forty-six.

Perhaps when apes devolved from the human state, the mentioned two etheric-chromosomes crystalized into the strictly-physical state.



The Mayan Katun cycles in relation to Kabbalah

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Merry Meet ofhumandescent

I'm sorry, but coming from SA myself, I happen to know, there is no such thing as a zulu shaman. All this person has done is to adopt shaman as a title, so others don't know that in truth they are simply a witchdoctor. In SA witchdoctors are very different from witches and pagans in the states and other countries, they use ... not so good ways do do things, to put it mildly. Those vids that you see of deep Africa and the "priests" in no uncertain terms, abuse little children because according to them they are possessed? Witchdoctors. Be careful who you believe. Sorry hun, I have to tell you the truth, I can not just keep quiet about this and see you fall for a lie. It's definitely not true, there is no such thing as a zulu shaman. They just adopt the word so people wont know they are in fact witch doctors. Same thing what the "priests" are doing up in deep Africa, they just adopted the name tag "priest" so they can get away with what they're doing.

I am so sorry, I see you have great belief in Credo, but he is a lie

In this article:

en.wikipedia.org...

it states that his father was a Christian. Ok, let me explain to you how it works in the tribes. To become a witch-doctor/sangoma etc, you cannot be Christian. The title gets handed down via a family line. According to a friend, Thembi, who went through the whole process to become one at age 12. There is a ritual that they have to go through, to receive their "gifts". Thembi described it only as horrifying, that there were very dark entities called upon, and wouldn't elaborate any further, she says it scares her to even discuss it. From that day, she rejected her family heritage to be the sangoma/witchdoctor of their tribe. and has devoted her life to Christianity. Her whole family as well as her tribe have rejected her as a member, because of this decision she made. She says, she can't understand that they don't see, there is nothing good in what they did, how they could not feel it? Thembi, though, had already gone through the ritual, and still has her "gifts". She tries to ignore them, or use them only for good, but it is a continuous battle for her now. As the entities want to overwhelm her. They don't want to let her go.

See, the article, is factually incorrect. If Credo's father was a Christian, then Credo would never have gone through the ritual to receive his "gifts" and become a "shaman". Thembi says, there is no such thing as a zulu-shaman. The two just can not combine. The likely scenario is, that Credo's father is the tribe's witchdoctor, and Credo "inherited" the title from his father. They then decided to change it. Credo might also, like Thabi, have rejected it, but then why is he lying about it? Thembi doesn't claim she is something she is not, she will tell you straight, she is a sangoma, that's trying her best to follow the path of Christ, and you can see in her house and her demeanor, and the bible in her pocket, that it's true, she also doesn't dress like the other sangomas.. (sangoma/witchdoctor/natural healer here, is basically the same thing, the do differ slightly, only in a way, this one use a dead baby's intestines, and that one would rather use an aborted baby's intestines the other will tell you to go and kill a baby, where do you think the thing that raping a virgin baby will cure you of aids comes from? it's from them. you should visit their "shops" to believe it ... if someone will lead you to one that is, they're not easy to find. This is now a crude but true example, but I have to bring my message across)

There really is no such thing as a zulu-shaman. It's the first that anybody here has heard of it. I am truly sorry.

Love and light

Saw these videos posted a while back like a year or two ago. I think his little hallucinogenic escapade kind of discredits the whole story a little. It sounds like he took too much shrooms.

I am open minded, but this is just the ramblings of a disturbed man. Evolution has been proven with a combination of science and archaeology. While I do totally believe we have and are being visited and that the incredible rate that we have advanced over the last 100 years or so is most certainly to do with outside influences, I feel that this is pushing things beyond the realms of believability. I put the Reptilian idea in line with all those crazy Scientology beliefs.

Thanks for posting i respect your opininon that you don't believe in reptilians.

Originally posted by Nightchild
I don't believe him.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe much in the possibility that there were and still are androgynous beings as a "natural" gender, but not that they were the original Earthlings, but rather the "Gods"(ET's). I do, however, lean more towards that the "Gods" consisted of (Supposedly) three genders rather then only one; Male, Female and both/neither.

At the beginning of the video credo said when these beings came to earth they said we existed before you on earth and we are your brothers. If you have ever heard stewart swerdlow, he says that reptilians were the first colony here on earth and were androgynous beings so i think credo is telling the truth, he also says that the allegorical story of adam and eve is actually story of reptilian beings splitting in to male and female and then mixing themselves with human genetics. Here is the link to coast to coast fascinating interview:

I have great difficulty believing much of what he says. Just because he is a black African man dressed in traditional clothing passing off information that he claims is ancient "Zulu" knowledge doesn't make it so.
I bet if he was to speak in front of other Zulu shaman they would look at each other and say "what the hell is this man talking about".

Despite being dressed in traditional clothing and presenting himself as a shaman this man is on the internet reading and learning about all these things, then passing it off as "Zulu" knowledge to give it more weight and giving him some sense of national pride. He knows about all these things the same way you and I know about them, from reading books and internet.


In other words hi is full of it, an internet shaman!

The myth of androgyny in the first humans is quite common .

In Greek myth early humans were two persons attached at the back, and they rolled around like cartwheel spheres or globes.

Zeus split them in punishment of Prometheus. He also feared they would become extinct.
Since then each human is searching for their soul mate.
Those who were originally attached male/female are searching heterosexually, and those who were attached to the same gender are searching homosexually.
See the pages in: Body of vision: representations of the body in recent film and poetry By R. Bruce Elder
(see pp. 38-39 books.google.co.za... aKnzNiO0yU&hl=en&ei=4nnuTIrOCsjFswbonYSTCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false)
The strange is that as globes, every combination could breed from the front with other globes, but breeding was not the same as having an attached soul mate.
So Zeus had to rearrange the organs after the split into men and women, although the longing and search for the lost attached mate remained.

In Genesis 2 Adam is at first hermaphroditic, potentially self-propagating.
In many Native American myths men and women went to war and lived on opposite sides of a river (after the gods split them), and it was the "berdache" (trans-sexual, homosexual) who brought them back together.
So what is despised as "abnormal" in Abrahamic fundamentalism was sacred in other cultures, because lesbi-gay/ trans-sexual people kept the world in balance.
But that's why the hate us, they want to destroy ancient beliefs and unbalance the world in their "Satanic" patriarchy.

How could something, that is by its very nature unbalanced, create balance?

It is insulting to the ancient cultures (whether they are "pagan" or "non-pagan") to say that said cultures relied on false-hermaphrodites (homosexuals) in order to maintain balance. Homosexuality is actually a major cause for the degeneration of many cultures.

Ever since the sexes were polarized into male and female bodies, the healthy relationship between opposite sexes has always been the Cornerstone or Foundation-Stone of every culture.

How could any culture last, if its members build their houses on sand, and do not chisel the brute stone into the Perfected Stone?

An occult maxim exists that states: “As above, so below.” We can also state: “As below, so above.”

If sexual union of the phallus and the uterus is always necessary in order to engender a physical body, then it is also absolutely logical to state that the sexual act is indispensably necessary in order to engender the Solar Astral Body.

Once in a while within this complicated and difficult labyrinth of pseudo-esotericism and pseudo-occultism, some wandering degenerated infrasexual might appear who will possibly state that the Astral Body can be built without the necessity of the sexual act because we already have the two poles, masculine and feminine.

Those imbecile ignoramuses do not want to comprehend that the time of the Lemurian hermaphrodites has already passed, and that creation without sexual cooperation, without the necessity of the sexual act between man and woman, can only be performed by an authentic hermaphrodite.

The Lemurian hermaphrodites had the phallus and the uterus and also all of the male and female organs totally developed; this is why they could create or reproduce themselves without the necessity of the sexual act. However, all of the pseudo-esoteric and pseudo-occultist people who hate sexual magic have never demonstrated unto us that they have the male and female sexual organs totally developed.

What is as abundant as evil weed in this perverse, corrupted, and doomed Aryan civilization are the false hermaphrodites, meaning, the homosexuals of Lilith, the gays.

reply to post by Tamahu

Who told you bisexuality was unbalanced?
See the whole series on Youtube of "The Reptilian Agenda".
Credo Mutwa admits that he became bisexual.
A lot of his knowledge is so ancient it is not even common amongst the Zulus.
Masculinity and femininity are not only attached to the genitals.
They can be spiritual states.

Our constructed culture that mutilates hermaphrodite children to make them fit into an imposed gender paradigm is "unnatural".

In most spiritual cultures that is understood.
Colonialism wiped most of them out (Balboa threw 40 Mayan transvestites to his dogs).
But in some places the balanced truth survives.
See the festival of Aravan in India:
keithbedford.photoshelter.com...

The Ancient Occultism of all Religions teaches that for the Alchemical Androgyny to occur, for the masculine and feminine poles within us to be fully balanced, there must be heterosexual Sexual Magic. And that the one who has their inner Masculine and Feminine poles fully balanced with each other (because of heterosexual Sexual Magic), can continually enjoy the Ecstasy of the Union (Yoga, Religare) of their inner Masculine and Feminine Soul.

Celibacy

Swami X stated the following in one of his lessons: "Unmarried people can unite spiritually within themselves the natural creative force of the soul by learning the correct method of Meditation and its application to the physical life. Such people do not have to pass through the material experience of matrimony. They can learn to marry their feminine physical impulse with the masculine impulse of their internal soul."

If our beloved Gnostic disciples reflect on these words of Swami X, they will reach the conclusion that they are manifestly absurd. This idea of marrying the feminine physical impulse with the masculine impulse of the Internal Soul is one hundred percent false. This type of utopian marriage is impossible because the human being has not yet incarnated the Soul. With whom then is he going to marry his feminine physical impulse?

The intellectual animal still does not have a Soul. Whosoever wishes to incarnate Soul, whosoever yearns to be a human with Soul, must have the Astral, Mental and Causal Bodies. The human being of this day and age still does not have these Internal Vehicles. The Astral spectre, the Mental spectre, and the Causal spectre are only spectres. The majority of Occultists believe that these internal spectres are the true vehicles; nonetheless, they are very mistaken. We need to be born in the superior worlds. This subject matter about being born is a sexual problem.

No human being is born of theory. Not even a simple microbe can be born of theories. No one is born through the nostrils nor through the mouth. Every living being is born of sex. "As above, so below." If the human being is born of sex here in this physical world, it is logical that above, in the Internal Worlds, the process is analogous. The Law is the Law and the Law is fulfilled.

The Christ Astral is born as the body of flesh and bone is born. This is sexual. Only with Sexual Magic between husband and wife can one give birth to that marvelous body. We can say the same of the Mental and Causal. We need to engender those internal bodies and that is only possible with sexual contact because, as above so below and, as below so above. No celibate person can marry his feminine physical impulse with the masculine of his Internal Soul, because not a single celibate person can incarnate his Soul. To incarnate the Soul we must engender the internal bodies, and only through the sexual union of man and woman can they be engendered. No single man nor any single woman can engender or conceive. The two poles are necessary to create. This is what life is.

It is necessary to engender the internal vehicles. It is necessary to be born in the superior worlds. Celibacy is an absolutely false path. We need the Perfect Matrimony.

I must admit... I feel a lot better now.

Back to doing my toenails, I suppose.

reply to post by halfoldman

See also: The Zuni Man-Woman by Wil Roscoe.
www.amazon.com...
In many pre-colonial nations "gender" was divided by labor.
And let's be honest, labor rather than sex divides our gendered society today.
So when a born "male" made better baskets, it was seen as a sign of difference, and they could dress and live as women or a third-gender.
The men who sneaked off to Whe-wa's hogan were not regarded as homosexual, and she fathered children (which was not a problem in a communal society).
The third-gender also played crucial ceremonial roles.
This is something the missionaries and US agents noticed, and the aim was to drive the custom and social role out of existence.
This was also the case in Africa and many other places.
It's heartbreaking to read how kids sometimes arrived in US colonial "Indian" schools, and those boys in sacred dresses had to stand on desks upon arrival, and everybody had to point and laugh at them.
So Western/Christian homophobia is unnatural, and it was forced on people.
In the book it speaks of the great sadness of older people who recalled the tradition, and how in modern times young gay people didn't know their sacred role, and became self-destructive.

So, unbalanced "satanic Christianity" made the world "unbalanced" and evil.
They made gay people unbalanced.
They persecuted women too for many generations.
How balanced is that?

reply to post by halfoldman

Two Spirit indigenous conference USA:
Gay rights didn't start with Stonewall, it started with colonialism and anti-evil, anti-theft struggle:

Originally posted by Nightchild

Originally posted by vinay86


Now, there are unfortunately alot of people nowadays just pretending to be androgyne for "Coolness", and those are not Intergenders, as the term only applyes for those truly feeling themselves to stand beyond or between genders.

Well I don't know what part of town your from but its not "cool" where I'm from, not something you for example would say down your local pub

Two words the OP and the so called "Shamen" need to look up on wiki:

Cambrian Explosion

Sex ( i.e. having one parent which scores then selects the other partner given the specific environmental factors at the time of the engagement) is at the core of Biodiversity and Evolutionary theory.

Up until the Cambrian explosion a cell/animal/lifeform/whatever would generally make a direct copy of itself however the Cambrian explosion is underpinned by the fact that some lifeforms decided to best prepare their offspring for the changing environment by selecting specific genetic traits in a mate and then combining these via "sex" to increase their chances of perpetuating their genes.

This started around 500 million years ago so the chances that Humans, as the dominant species on the planet,managed to achieve this position whilst not following the same pattern as most other succesfull modern lifeforms are so remote they are barely worth even debating.

In the great big fight to the death ( evolution) it is almost impossible to imagine a dominant species sidestepping one of the most succesful. evolutionary traits of all time ( so good, it's still with us 500 million years later in fact).
Look around you....Mammals all have a common ancestor and every single one of them is divided by sex...unless you imagine humans sit outside of this model it is impossible to even consider such nonsense.

The clues are all around you.