LA Plane Theory is blown out of the sky - US missed Chinese Missile

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


Wrong...
Read this -
www.newscientist.com...

It was flight UPS902 -

Satellite picked up the horizontal contrail.. Contrailscience has done exhausting work on this....

Again - It was UPS 902 -

Those of you that would argue the color of the sky, need not read this. You will not believe anything that ANYONE puts forward.

It amazes me how badly people WANT to believe this was a missile.

I guess I am relieved that nobody here thinks that the "paladians" or the "galactics" shot the missle down - Silver lining!

reply to post by Resurrectio


i had some media training in the "semantic differential" so your tactics do not convince me in any way.

nothing has been PROVEN, thats a fact.

reply to post by NivKing


So because you have some training .. you are going to totally disregard the facts and stick to your fantasy?
Did your text books in your training resemble lord of the rings and harry potter?

Oh and BTW... How does your training, and me, pointing to the facts.. have anything to do with your semantic differential training?

Can't someone just be sick of trying to point out facts, to have them totally disregarded and replaced with wild eyed theories and fantasies? Do I have to be a disinfo agent? Can't I just be fed up with watching my fellow humans wander off the cliff of sanity and get buried in the "oh so exciting" world of illogical theory?

It gets the best of me.. I read these "theories" .. I want to walk away shaking my head.. But I can't.. Like a moth to a light... I am drawn in..

To look at the facts, that are currently known, and not agree that this is UPS902, is irresponsible and plain stubborn.

That is my opinion... If you want to waste all of your time, to eventually come to one of 2 conclusions.
a) It was UPS902
b) We will never know the truth - TPTB have tricked us again.


Critical thinking is a gift or a curse, depending on your mental capacity.

Have a good day.
May I suggest looking into the paladian interference, it is equally as credible as the "missile theory"

reply to post by Resurrectio

You, are a combative person,
I posted what is the definitive position of neutral and you are insisting that I believe you, not form my own opinion,I've listened to the missile theory and the plane theory and you are working overtime on campaigning me to subscribe to your favorite, the plane theory.
I'm not calling you wrong, or Boon wrong,
I'm making my choice to reserve judgement until I'm convinced.
Please put the pom poms away and stop working me to cheer for your side.
There is no proof, 100% of anything, just alot of something and nothing at the same time.
I appreciate the passion.

Originally posted by Resurrectio
reply to post by SarK0Y

 

Can you attempt that in english this time? I would like to know what you mean...
2nd line

And really? What is this? He's from Russia.
Can you not be so angry?
My goodness, seriously, it's a discussion, we didnt break into your home and steal food.
Thanks

Originally posted by tomdham
reply to post by Retseh

 

NOW, go back and read the thread!!!

Tom

OH Yeah...as you were.

I did read the thread, and most of it is fanboy garbage mostly perpetrated by the somewhat excitable OP.

My opinion is that it looks like an aircraft contrail, and it still does, deal with it. If you think it's a secret Chinese missile launch or an alien attack, good for you.

My first thought at the time was that if this is an aircraft, then it is likely a scheduled flight and the imagery would therefore be repeatable, and sure enough someone else thought the same thing, Liem Bahneman. Bahneman shot video the next day of US Airways flight 808 and surprise, surprise it was making the exact same contrail 24 hours later.

Check it out for yourself:

www.webcitation.org...

So is this a coincidence or another Chinese missile launch?

Honestly, you guys and your half-baked theories

reply to post by Resurrectio


I thought it was flight AWE808?, but I guess it could be UPS902 I really wish the propaganda department would pick a flight and stick to it, it would make responding to the debuggers a little more challenging.

I mean, couldn't they have picked a plane that was flying to Alaska or Tokyo or something (since the camera is looking towards the west), to account for the fact that we see this commercial jets 'afterburners' in the news chopper footage? If we see the afterburners, doesn't that mean that the plane is traveling away from the continent if viewing it from the east? Regardless, I didn't know commercial jets even had afterburners.. But, whatevs. Not to mention that the contrail looks to be moving away from the camera in a NNW direction...

It's funny that there is no footage of the plane arcing across the Los Angeles sky since it was on it's way to Phoenix, which is to the east of LA. It would have had to fly over California at some point, so why so many Californian conspiracy theorists? It should have been debunked as it flew over their heads. Why so many Cape Canaveral residents saying this looks familiar? What would THEY know?

My belief corresponds with that of the original poster, this was a JL-2 (CSS-NX-4 SL Ballistic Missile) launched from a Jin Class SSBN in a Northwest direction (splashed in the north pacific somewhere) from just outside US territorial waters off the Californian coast. Therefore, the wide base of the contrail tapering to the point where we can plainly see some sort of fire is heading AWAY from the continental US - this explains the slow rate of speed when coupled with the idea that the object is gaining more vertical distance than horizontal.

How's the Kool Aid taste? Did you get a blend of strawberry, blueberry and white grape?

reply to post by insite


Actually, I think the OP has changed his mind. All of the experts who claimed it was a rocket are Bilderbergers or something, so now the whole thing is a ploy to distract people from the G-20 conference and the Fed. Or at least that's what I've been making of his latestthread. I don't see why anyone thinks it's Chinese. After all, the Russians definitely have the capacity to launch a missile from American waters, and the US is dragging its feet ratifying the START treaty. Perhaps they fired a rocket to put the Americans' feet to the fire. Makes more sense than the Chinese theory. Most likely its just a hoax, though.

And I also want to add that if you believe this red "flame" is merely the reflection of the setting sun on the fuselage, think about how the sun sets in the west. This plane is, according to the re-re's, traveling east. If the fuselage were heading towards the sun in a westerly direction, it would be lit up from below. Regardless, the reflection flickers like a flame, and since I have seen fire before... Er, 2+2 = ?

Missile, plane, russian,chinese???
Way too many theories out there..
I just wish there was one proven answer...

reply to post by boondock-saint


Hi Boondock. I like the theory you have put forth here. This is what ATS is all about.

However the theory that China would commit an act of aggression towards the US to emphasize their disagreement with the devaluation of the dollar (and the resulting devaluation of the Yuan) does not make sense. If theyy are concerned over the devaluation of the two currencies, military action isn't the answer. They would be making a threat they couldn't make good on and the US would know it.

If China were to engage in direct military action against the US all of this country's debt to China would be null and void and the Yuan would be worthless as a result. The US is also China's biggest trading partner. Over half of China's economy relies on exportation of goods. They would find themselves in short supply if they went into combat against their largest trading partner and the US allies all subsequently turned their back on them. The only way China could possibly benefit is a swift conquest of the 50 states followed by complete control of the US economy and population.

That takes us back to square one on the motive.

By the way, earlier someone said something about the Yen. The Yen is Japan's currency; the Yuan is China's currency.

reply to post by DJW001


Good points, don't know if I agree. I don't think it was a distraction from the G20, but a little side demonstration that may relate to some planned meeting within the G20. It would make sense for China to pull off a demonstration like this when the US continues to meddle in what they consider their back yard. China has a new SSBN submarine, and a new SLBM to go along with it. China is continuously trying to discount American power and bring itself to the top of the world heavyweight standings. This little demo would be a nice chunky bargaining chip at the G20.

I think the fact that this incident took place within three days of the G20 summit strengthens the argument that this has something to do with Sino-US relations.

reply to post by dbloch7986


I don't know if China should be considered a threat to the US just yet. But by launching a missile in a manner such as this, it states to the US that China is capable of, and willing to assert its power over its neighbors in direct conflict with US interests and that there is nothing the US can do to get its position in Asia back.

Also, Obama said he wanted to be a 'Pacific President'. This little demo is great if trying to bring the 'Pacific President' back to reality.

I apologize if there was any change to the general direction of the thread, as I only read the first 15 or so pages before I decided I was going to step in. I have not even bothered checking the mainstream news outlets for any kind of update. I'm hoping that what I present is still relevant.

First off, my experience in this field is minimal. I'm still at school, 5 months away from commissioning as an officer in the USAF as an Air Battle Manager. I have not been exposed to much of the physics of missile weaponry nor do I have access to any classified material pertaining to the incident off the California coast. Being earmarked to be an ABM does however expose me to what our full capabilities are, as well as that of those we consider "major players" on the world stage.

What I will say is that, based on the knowledge I have acquired, the training I have received, and my own intuition, is that it is almost certainly not a missile. Rather than having proof that it was an aircraft, I will try to explain why I feel it cannot be a missile.

1) Origin can never be certain. By this I mean, "whodunnit". Asserting that it was the Chinese is just as plausible as asserting that we were simply test-firing our own missile/missile-defense systems. You cannot pin this on anyone specifically.

2) If you continue to believe it was the Chinese, I would have to ask - why would they? Yes, they sneaked up on us and presented themselves in the middle of a Naval exercise, which was embarrassing. Launching a missile however, right off the coast of the US no less, regardless of the direction it is intended to take, is political suicide. We would not keep it quiet and ignore the incident for fear of embarrassment. I would not go on to say that we'd go to war right there and then, but there would be a lot of backlash. A LOT. The Chinese do not have the ability to wage an all-out war with us (this is a whole 'nother argument I'm willing to get into in another thread), so why would they risk it? What could they possibly have to gain?

3) Assuming we skip 1 and 2 and say the Chinese did fire a missile and it was intercepted, I find it hard to believe that all that would happen is that it would be knocked off course and slowed down a little. Assuming the interceptor came from the ocean (and dubiously seemingly close to the missile launch site), I would say that it can't be a PAC-3. It would have to be one of the Standard missiles from the Navy that would be able to intercept a speeding missile. Generally, Naval missiles are not designed to down ballistic missiles, but assuming they could - they all use either contact fuses or kinetic projectiles. Both of which would have led to much serious damage to any kind of missile. The only aids a ballistic missile has would have to do with avoiding detection or radar lock altogether. If it was enough to knock it off course and slow it down, it should have been enough to down it completely. And in the real world, we never EVER fire just one missile at what we think may be a ballistic missile. We would send up enough to make sure that whatever defenses the ballistic missile has are overcome (chaffs/decoys/etc).

I do not attempt to say that we are impenetrable, nor do I mean to take away from the capability of the Chinese. I do not even feel confident in saying it is a plane. I do not know - a lot of my AF buddies were stumped. But the idea of the Chinese launching a missile off our coast as a show of force is ridiculous. The other times they've done it were in their own territory, and it's usually of a defensive nature, meant to tell us: "if you get near us, we can do this to your carriers; if you fire this, we can shoot it down". This was not as comprehensive as I would have liked it to be, but that is simply due to my lack of preparation and knowledge of this issue as well as my eagerness to just jump in.

Originally posted by dbloch7986
By the way, earlier someone said something about the Yen. The Yen is Japan's currency; the Yuan is China's currency.

lmao
yep that was probably me
who said that. Thanks for
keeping me straight
I'm still trying to find a store
round here that takes
Confederate Notes
hahahahaha

that was just a joke if the
Secret Service is listening

Ok for those who seem to be confused and going off the topic,, once again it was an AIRPLANE !

www.cbsnews.com...

So lets just move forward on this ,,

Originally posted by BobAthome
Ok for those who seem to be confused and going off the topic,, once again it was an AIRPLANE !

www.cbsnews.com...

So lets just move forward on this ,,

No one has confirmed what it was yet and its now been 10 days...
I find it strange that you say its a plane then link to a vid that says it's a missle

Originally posted by DJW001
Actually, I think the OP has changed his mind. All of the experts who claimed it was a rocket are Bilderbergers or something, so now the whole thing is a ploy to distract people from the G-20 conference and the Fed. Or at least that's what I've been making of his latestthread.

yes DJW I have changed my mind and I think if
folks would read that link you provided it would
make this thread kinda obsolete. But what do I
know, I'm just a dumb redneck and thanks
for the link.

Originally posted by qalameid
...But the idea of the Chinese launching a missile off our coast as a show of force is ridiculous. The other times they've done it were in their own territory, and it's usually of a defensive nature, meant to tell us: "if you get near us, we can do this to your carriers; if you fire this, we can shoot it down"...

Fair enough. The only thing I disagree with is that you think the plausibility is "ridiculous". Keep in mind the G20 party started three days later in South Korea with Obama in attendance. I think your example of the "if you get near us..." mentality is apt when considering US delusions about core Asian interests and the US projection of power in Asia. China needs something to shut Obama up.

The Chinese are prone to hysterics and knee-jerk reactions that defy all logic and common sense (note the fight over the little Japanese rocks which caused a reduction in exports of rare earths metals and the detention of four visiting Japanese civil engineers). When they say they are non-violent and seek a harmonious global power balance, they mean that they will have already crushed all dissent.