Freemasonry, secret or not?

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by network dude

 

Where do you think I've been for the last several months, cashed my check and head to Vegas.

...

I suck at gambling, by the way.

Hence your return to the boards.

Just because Wesley Snipes said always bet on black doesn't mean it will always win..

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Dr Cosma


And I asked becasue of that exactly, I dont understand what you meen, could you elaborate on what you said please?

The secrets of Freemasonry are not transmitted by the written or spoken word but by the Heart.

Ok thank you.
Correct me if im wrong, im only guessing, when you meen the heart, do you meen by their actions?

Originally posted by Dr Cosma

Correct me if im wrong, im only guessing, when you meen the heart, do you meen by their actions?

No. But actions can be a consequence of what is in the Heart.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Yes of cos, I agree with you there.
Ok i'll work it out myself, dont worry and thanks

reply to post by Dr Cosma


When you enter a group - any group - you entire a kind of collective-memory, a tradition, a heritage, an energy-field. And you change because of it. Thats essentially what its about, imo.

Cya around.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Ok, niceone for that.
More or less what I was thinking about.

I think the title of your thread sums it up...

The fact we are discussing it proves they are not a secret

Originally posted by ANSPHAR
reply to post by digby888

 

Albert Pike was a freemason. Correct.33rd degree. As far as Aleister Crowley he was made an honorary 32 degree mason but was in fact not a real mason so to speak. He did not go to lodge or anything. To the OP thank you for posting the article. It was well written. I am not a brother but the ones I have met have always been of good moral fiber.

Albert Pike wasn't just a 33rd Mason
- He was the head of all Masonry in North America
- He rewrote the rituals for the Scottish Rite
- His private collection of books (many of which were discussions of the occult) was used to create America's first public library.
- He's one of only a handful of men to have a statue in Washington, DC.
- He's the only person, much less Freemason, to have been buried within the House of the Temple.

Aleister Crowley was good friends with the people who drew the first Masonic tracing boards. The OTO was started by three Freemasons, and would only allow Master Masons as members.

Originally posted by TheLoneArcher
reply to post by digby888

 

I think that you are misinterpreting the word Occult. Occult implies that something is hidden from view. Over time, the word had been perverted to suggest Satanic, spiritualist or an undesireable activity. This definition is most incorrect. If you stand by the original definition, yes. Just the same way as for you or many of us, the teachings with the law institute, medical institute or even the Church can be considered as occult, as they are hidden from publlic view.

edit on 8/11/2010 by TheLoneArcher because: Pselling, I mean spelling.

Yes, occult means that something is actively hidden from view, not that it happens to be out of view.

With regards to occult practices, the word "occult" is actually a play on words: it also refers to the "occultation," which is a total eclipse. Men who learned to predict solar eclipses used that knowledge to their advantage, and not in a good way.

Originally posted by Saurus
I am a freemason with an interest in the occult.

However, as with LoneArcher, if I ever came across anything in that were contrary to the morals and values taught in the Holy Books (of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc, which, in my opinion, all teach the same values), or if there was anything that I would be ashamed to tell my parents, children or wife, I would resign without hesitation.

Well, then, you haven't been reading your Bible as closely as you ought to.

Originally posted by jickler

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
A scenario -
A group of Masons meet. One of them works for the Government, the other is a plumbing contracter.
So the guy who works for the Government says "Hey Bill, just reminding you that in January 'so and so' are begining construction, you might want to bring in the new pipe system".
When they announce the project, guy Nº2 has already brought in the pipe system or given the project by a fellow Mason.
This is NOT honorable. That is a conspiracy. That is monopoly.
That is a fact.

sounds a lot like networking to me.

no different than polish/german/french etc clubs.

edit on 8-11-2010 by jickler because: adding

Yes, but when Mexicans do it, it's called "illegal immigration"

Originally posted by TheLoneArcher
reply to post by Dr Cosma

 

Corruption, you hit the nail on the head there. There is corruption in every organisation. I would like to think that I hold the true values of Freemasonry. If, I for one, was to encounter corruption within my Lodge, I would have no worries about reporting it. Corruption has no place here.

"Corruption" is a blanket charge that is used to kick people out of high positions.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
I cannot ignore the fact that Albert Pike writes that all freemasons from a certian degree should follow the satanic doctrine.
That to me cannot be misinterpreted, sorry.

Care to cite your source on that? Because if that's what you think Pike wrote, you haven't really read Morals & Dogma, just choice quotes taken out of context.

Albert Pike did talk about the "Luciferian doctrine." Another typical lie of omission ...

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
reply to post by TheLoneArcher

 

I cannot ignore the fact that Albert Pike writes that all freemasons from a certian degree should follow the satanic doctrine.
That to me cannot be misinterpreted, sorry.

can you show where you read this and please explain the context of his passage? I have read a lot of Morals and Dogma, but not the whole book yet. I have noticed nothing in the passages I read that would suggest Mr. Pike was anything other than a Christian man in Civil war America. Yes, some fundamentalist web sites who have an obvious hatred and agenda against Freemasonry have posted snip-its from passages that when displayed, seem to point to Pike being luciferian. But anyone with any brains knows to make sure what you are being told is fact, and would read the entire passage to find out what was really intended by the author. I could take quotes out of the Bible and crop them in the middle and make it look as if Satan himself wrote it. What would that prove other then my ability to misdirect?

that damn Norton guy was faster on the draw. Next time Norton, next time.

That's funny, because in Morals and Dogma, Albert Pike mentions that the Bible is a book for rude and ignorant people. If he were such a good Christian, then he wouldn't have been rooting for Lucifer and the Buddha.

"The Bible is an indispensable part of the furniture of a Christian Lodge, only because it is the sacred book of the Christian religion. The Hebrew Pentateuch in a Hebrew Lodge, and the Koran in a Mohammedan one, belong on the altar; and one of these, and the Square and Compass, properly understood, are the Great Lights by which a Mason must walk and work. (p.11)

"The doctrines of the Bible are often not clothed in the language of strict truth, but in that which was fittest to convey to a rude and ignorant people the practical essentials of the doctrine." (p.224)

"Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction in religion." (p.213)

"Masonry is a worship; but one in which all civilized men can unite;" (p.526)

"Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us directly back, as you see, to the Kabalah." (p.741)

ritualabusefree.org...

Originally posted by TheLoneArcher
reply to post by Dr Cosma

 

The one eye does not literally mean that God has one eye. The one eye signifies omnipotence and that God sees all.

It comes from a mistranslation in the Torah. The translation is "keep your eye single," when the phrase should be translated as "keep your eye simple."

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by digby888

 

please do me one favor before you grab that pitchfork and torch. Look at the date that was written, then look at the date Brother Hall was initiated into masonry.

I will give you a hint. He wrote a bunch of stuff about masonry before he became one. then once he was on the inside, he had a very different view of what it was. He leaned that one can only know the truth by being part of the story and not just by listening to others accounts of the same.

You should tell that to the Freemasons who recommend the book to neophytes.

Originally posted by network dude
Manny P. Hall joined masonry after writing about it for years because he wanted to know the real deal. he had spent his life having real masons try to explain to him what it was about. Once he found out, he wrote quite a few things that explain it better then most masons can. he just happens to be a gifted writer. And masonry would not be against anyone joining so long as they fit the criteria. Being a man, freeborn, of good report, and well recommended. And believing in one supreme being as God the creator. Does that sound evil in any way?

Sounds like they let him join anway, even after he wrote potentially damaging things about the group. I'm sure they weren't hoping that his books would just disappear.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Fenrin

 

Nope. Highest rank there is is the Master Mason, third degree, but even then a Mason can not command another - he can ask politely, though.

Or he can petition to have someone kicked out.

Freemasonry doesn't have that as part of it's practices.

Revenge is an integral part of Masonic ritual, especially in the Scottish Rite.

The only one I know of is one in the York Rite, where there's a symbolic drinking of wine from the skull. The symbolism is drawing from the knowledge of those who came before.
Skulls are used universally as symbols of mortality, Freemasonry includes them as symbols to remind a Mason that everyone is mortal.

The drinking of wine symbolizes the taking of the blood of Christ. "Those who came before" are basically playing the role of Christ.

14 US presidents were Masons, none recently. Truman was however a Mason, third degree Master Mason.

Truman was raised to the 33rd degree in 1945, and also became the Grand Master of Missouri.
Barack Obama is a known Prince Hall Mason as well as a Rosicrucian.

However, the location chosen had more to do with the war, not to do with the Christian population. (Most Masons are, after all, Christian.)

Not really, they just live in Christian-dominant areas.

Freemasons don't recruit, as they like to say, 2B1ASK1.

That's right, because after all posting large billboards isn't recruiting.

the European Union is full of freemasonry symbolism; the Lisbon treaty doesn't contain a god

... So, it doesn't mention a God. The EU comprises several different nationalities and religions. If the Masons were involved, I'd expect to see a more general god or religious presentation.

There are atheist Freemasons.

• freemasonry accept every highest being of god including Satan

I think you mean as God... and there's been some interesting debate here to show why Satan does not fit the bill, as he's entirely subservient to God.

Bill ... Baal ... same difference, right?

• in the British Army it's allowed to make satanic rituals in protected buildings, because for the freemasonry Satan is a highest being

Um... never heard of the Brits allowing Satanic ritual, and Satan is not Freemasonry's highest being.
One of the things I like about Freemasonry is it has no highest being, instead each mason is allowed his own beliefs as to God.

Not true. They prescribe certain symbols to represent God. It is more "magician's choice" than a personal choice.

Originally posted by UnknownPhilosopher
Once we all understand the reasoning behind the initial secrecy most secret societies veiled themselves behind, then the initial knee jerk reaction we all have will dissipate. Some of the worlds greatest minds have been part of these societies but unfortunately, religous persucution forced many of these people into secret societies since their ideologies and theories didn't coexist too well with powers to be.

It's not a matter of knee-jerk reaction, it's a matter of facts. Ex-Masons have come forward and revealed disturbing things about what goes on in the lodge. YOU should research those topics instead of labeling people with whom you disagree as reactionaries.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Truman was raised to the 33rd degree in 1945, and also became the Grand Master of Missouri.
Barack Obama is a known Prince Hall Mason as well as a Rosicrucian.

OK, I'll get to some of your other mistakes here in a minute, but this is outright BS. Obama is not a mason of any sort. Never has been. Prince Hall masonry would have been singing that information form the highest mountains and I suspect most of regular masonry as well. EIther prove it, or remove it from your arsenal of drive by slander.