Merkel says German multicultural society has failed

reply to post by SLAYER69


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reply to post by Hadrian


Nice rebuttal. We mustnt forget all the muslims who come to Europe/USA seeking Democracy.

reply to post by Hadrian




Thanks for posting those pics. The point I was trying to make to the other poster who posted the pics with Americans protesting immigrants is that a picture is worth a thousand words BUT in reality it can also be just a slim slice of the whole.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Hadrian

 

Nice rebuttal. We mustnt forget all the muslims who come to Europe/USA seeking Democracy.

This is exactly the point I've been hinting at.

People of all creeds and colours want freedom and happiness. Lumping them in with trouble-markers and extremists just because they have happen to share a religion or an ethnicity is wrong. Look at many of the posts in this thread - this behaviour is rampant, yet very few people seem to see it.

Our governments, and other powerful organisations WANT us to lump people together like this - because they WANT us to become fascists. We are so much easier to control in that situation. Fight against the hate, open your eyes and see the truth people!

I am scared of the future when governments admit to giving up on multiculturalism, because is there any other choice? Is there any other choice that DOES NOT lead to fascism? (And please, don't insult our intelligence by trying to argue that MC means positive discrimination ad hominem.)

Rev.

reply to post by Hadrian


I have no problem with Muslims being part of society, Muslims have been in the Western world for centuries and there has never been a problem. It is only a problem now because there are millions moving into Europe in just a few decades and crime because of them has risen, many refuse to assimilate and the governments refuse to even discuss any issues pertaining to Muslims. This has led to Islamaphobes taking over the argument instead of common sense people who can solve the problem rationally and without violence or intimidation.

Muslims can live alongside us in the western world but they must remember that this is their country too but founded by us, the ones who originally founded the nation (whatever western nation it is). So they must accept the pre-set culture and ways, they can keep their religion and culture but privately.

reply to post by Misoir


Can they open up restaurants serving "their" food in your neighborhood? Will you let bookstores sell books in their language? Is it OK with you if iTunes makes some Islamicy music available? Uh, oh, now they want a Ramadan parade down Main Street. That's not going to fly, is it?

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Well said, Hunka Hunka. We do have the kinds of people voicing the kinds of opinions shown in the posted pictures. That is their right. But overall, in different locations across America we are working it out. Illegal immigration poses other problems and is not the topic here but let me say a lot of the vitriol in public discourse came from our government's insistence on letting that problem fester. Legal immigration has built in safeguards that have served our country well over its history, overall. So far it's served us well integrating our Muslim immigrants. When they do get too big for their britches and start making unreasonable demands that is when they run smack into our Constitution and our multitudes of local laws that ensure we don't trample on each other regardless of who we are or where we came from. Is it all working perfectly? No, but it all works surprisingly well.

I can understand that Germany is a small country and its population feels threatened and overwhelmed. What I don't understand is why a German would even entertain the notion of letting another Fuhrer arise to handle the problems. Come on, you are a smart, inventive and strong people. Can't you come up with a better solution than that?

reply to post by Hadrian


As long as it is not influencing laws or forcing their culture on us I don't care what they do. But having a culture parade wouldn't make any sense in a nation where their culture is our culture.

You want the west to have an open door policy where any immigrant can come in an do anything they please, as if we have no culture. Ever since the Age of Enlightenment everything has gone down hill.

Rome also believed in diversity. Then Rome died.Culture and Countries do not make the people, people make the culture and countries. You replace the people, you replace the country. Do a people not have a right to their own homeland? What is the difference between colonisation (which the left says was so bad and evil) and multiculturalism? Answer: The colour of the people doing it. I think the biggest irony here is that more people have been murdered in the name of equality then in the name of nationalism.

The real problem was created by TPTB, by allowing, even encouraging this "multicultural" BS. I don't think too many Germans are emigrating to Muslim countries. They probably aren't even allowed to. It is the same plan they are using in the US, except with Arabs instead of Mexicans. Allow insane levels of immigration, basically an invasion, then sit back and collect money watching the sparks fly. It's the old divide and conquer plan. It's the same plan Cortez used against Moctezuma to allow 100 men to take over a country of millions, by getting them fighting against each other, and let them kill each other. Then the ones left are too weakened to resist.

Merkel is right to say what she did. There’s literally nothing that says that every nation needs to be like the US and accept people from foreign lands at all. Just because the US is a melting pot of different people from different places, doesn’t mean that we need to force other nations to do the same. If Germany wants to close its borders to those from beyond them, that ought to be the choice of the people living there. It’s absurd to suggest that every nation has to accept people from other nations.

The whole assimilation thing is a huge factor in it. I was stationed in Germany for 6 years, and within the first year, I was speaking German when off base, I dressed like they did and I didn’t draw attention to myself. I felt it was rude to go to someone else’s country and expect them to accommodate me, rather than the other way around. I know that in Frankfurt the huge issue was Turks, speaking Turkish, and they were a constant problem for everyone there when they’d try to force their ways on the Germans.

It also should be remembered that these people coming from other lands were not forced there by gunpoint. The people left their homeland of their own volition and chose to leave what they knew behind. That ought to be the very reasoning for assimilating into the new culture. Immigrants need to remember where they came from because they chose to LEAVE IT.

Personally, I think it’d be a good thing for Germany if they were to close their borders and deport “auslanders” back to where they came from. If Germany chooses to be the land of Germanic people, speaking German, they have every right to do so, and all of their government services should be in German only.

Here in America, I am accepting of people from wherever they come from, but I do so conditionally. They came here willingly, and as such, they need to learn our ways, and our customs, and leave their past in the past. I understand how hard it is to learn a new language, I’ve been there and done that, but I did it, and they should too. I am all for people immigrating to the US who really want to be Americans. Those who self identify with Spanish-American, or Chinese American, or any other hyphenated nationality, aren’t American at all. They haven’t become one of us yet, and that’s something Germans are going to have to put their foot down about. Merkel is right to say what she did. multiculturalism is not something that’s workable. As the age-old saying goes, “When in Rome, do as the Romans.”

Well, we could make a preemptive move and immediately criminalize all the cultural parades and events we currently ... allow ... apparently in error. Bye Oktoberfests! Off with yer heads, St. Patrick's Day fiends! Kwanzza be gone (sure that one won't be a problem). Ixnay Cinquo de Mayo! Pride parades? Are you kidding me?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by SeventhSeal

 

I'd say you are wrong...

that's called democracy you showed photos of.

You're right, those are photos representing freedom. I mean, protesting someone's right to worship, lol, so Democratic.

...What?!

Originally posted by bpg131313
Merkel is right to say what she did. There’s literally nothing that says that every nation needs to be like the US and accept people from foreign lands at all. Just because the US is a melting pot of different people from different places, doesn’t mean that we need to force other nations to do the same. If Germany wants to close its borders to those from beyond them, that ought to be the choice of the people living there. It’s absurd to suggest that every nation has to accept people from other nations.

The whole assimilation thing is a huge factor in it. I was stationed in Germany for 6 years, and within the first year, I was speaking German when off base, I dressed like they did and I didn’t draw attention to myself. I felt it was rude to go to someone else’s country and expect them to accommodate me, rather than the other way around. I know that in Frankfurt the huge issue was Turks, speaking Turkish, and they were a constant problem for everyone there when they’d try to force their ways on the Germans.

It also should be remembered that these people coming from other lands were not forced there by gunpoint. The people left their homeland of their own volition and chose to leave what they knew behind. That ought to be the very reasoning for assimilating into the new culture. Immigrants need to remember where they came from because they chose to LEAVE IT.

Personally, I think it’d be a good thing for Germany if they were to close their borders and deport “auslanders” back to where they came from. If Germany chooses to be the land of Germanic people, speaking German, they have every right to do so, and all of their government services should be in German only.

Here in America, I am accepting of people from wherever they come from, but I do so conditionally. They came here willingly, and as such, they need to learn our ways, and our customs, and leave their past in the past. I understand how hard it is to learn a new language, I’ve been there and done that, but I did it, and they should too. I am all for people immigrating to the US who really want to be Americans. Those who self identify with Spanish-American, or Chinese American, or any other hyphenated nationality, aren’t American at all. They haven’t become one of us yet, and that’s something Germans are going to have to put their foot down about. Merkel is right to say what she did. multiculturalism is not something that’s workable. As the age-old saying goes, “When in Rome, do as the Romans.”

YES! I completely agree with everything you said. Germany has the right to not welcome people who do not want to assimilate into their culture and so do we as United States citizens. People come here, supposedly, for our great freedoms and then they mock such freedoms but demonizing the U.S.A. while sitting in our nation! You want to come here for our freedom? Fine, that's great...we welcome you with open arms..that's if and only if you become a citizen and assimilate. If you want to come here to abuse and use our great freedoms to do nothing but demean our nation and our citizens, then you are NOT welcome!

reply to post by The Revenant


one thing is an immigrant living integrated in the country he chooses to live, learn the language, the ways of living and such, other thing is what happens in germany and most of other countris in europe.

they come ere with the sole purpose of sending money back to their countries and live in guetos where they can still practice their original culture and keep apart from the country that generously received them.

I have nothing against trying to find a better living in another country but I am strongly against this immigrants that simply see their host countries as a cow that has to be squeezed until nothing is left.

maybe we cannot accept single persons as immigrants, only families, maybe we should block the sending of money to the origin countries, maybe we should wipe the dictators who exploit their own citizens in africa and such.

the truth is that in respect to immigration, the old roman saying applies:

IN ROME, BE A ROMAN

Originally posted by The Revenant


I'm scared.

What is happening to us in Europe? Have we forgotten the lessons of the past? Millions of us died, from all corners of the globe, so that the lessons learnt from the collapse of fascism could be indellibly printed upon our minds for all time.

In every country in Europe, we have this debate - is Islam welcome? Can Islam be allowed to co-exist with other religions or cultural dispositions?

To hear it coming from Germany, once again, is just dumb-founding.

We cannot allow the Jewish question to become the Islamic question - let alone the Islamic Solution.

Islam should be welcome wherever and whenever. It should be allowed to co-exist and cohabit in any given free and democratic society. Anything less is unjust, and fascist.

I'm sure that Angela Merkel is just voicing the opinion that many normal Germans / Europeans / non-Muslim western citizens are thinking. But to do so reveals a shadow - a shadow that we thought had died in a bunker long ago. Can this debate be completed without the shadow coalescing into something more? Or are we condemned to reliving the lives of our ancestors, relearning their lessons - at the cost of blood, progress and humanity?

Discuss, and be civil.

Rev.

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

You are correct, but it also is happening to people of the Jewish faith too. Upsurging of nationalism in Eastern Europe (check out Hungary) and others is happening. I'm getting a very very bad feeling that we are seeing the start of fascism not only in Europe but also America. I see politicians and pundits on television saying that it's okay to essentially hate a whole religion or blame one and all it's people for 9/11 (New york mosque). Then we have Merkel coming out and saying this because she's getting pressure from the nationalistic side of her govt. who has been growing every year. I truly hate this, I truly do. Once you allow the snout of this ideology to come into being, it's only a matter of time before it's out in the open. All ready we are seeing in the US alone that it's not a shame to show the hatred that was essentially in the shadows. This next war of ideology will be longer and more brutal and we may never recover as a country.

Maybe we should have this horrible war, a war of civilizations. Because it's the only way that humans seem to understand change. There is a quote from Fahrenheit 451 that may explain humanity more than we know,

"There was a silly damn bird called a Phoenix back before Christ: every few hundred years he built a pyre and burned himself up. He must have been first cousin to Man. But every time he burnt himself up he sprang out of the ashes, he got himself born all over again. And it looks like we're doing the same thing, over and over, but we've got one damn thing the Phoenix never had. We know the damn silly thing we just did. We know all the damn silly things we've done for a thousand years, and as long as we know that and always have it around where we can see it, some day we'll stop making the goddam funeral pyres and jumping into the middle of them. We pick up a few more people that remember, every generation."

Essentially he says that these cycles of destruction and idiocy will continue until enough people are around after each cyclet and remember enough not to go down these paths of destruction. It's so right, because Merkel out of political expediency or true belief that she can control hatred is allowing this monster to rear it's head again and you would think that Germany of all places would know their history. Many do, and that is what they did wrong in the first place.

reply to post by kimo57


These folks didn't "stab" Europe in the back. Europe just refuses to accept their presence, turning up their collective noses at such folks.

I think folks on here have a poor understanding of history. This kind of attitude is what led to the rise of nationalism in Europe in the 1930s.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by SeventhSeal

 

I'd say you are wrong...

that's called democracy you showed photos of.

You're right, those are photos representing freedom. I mean, protesting someone's right to worship, lol, so Democratic.

...What?!

Nothing about democracy in general gives you the right to worship as you please, though ours does.

Democracy is people having a voice... and those pictures are of people having a voice... regardless what they say with that voice.

reply to post by Misoir


Why shouldn't they have an open door? Isn't that what freedom is all about?

Look at NYC and other cities in the U.S that have communities such as Chinatown and Little Italy. Are Muslims not allowed to have a similar community in U.S cities?

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Misoir

 

Why shouldn't they have an open door? Isn't that what freedom is all about?

Look at NYC and other cities in the U.S that have communities such as Chinatown and Little Italy. Are Muslims not allowed to have a similar community in U.S cities?

Exactly!