I have come to embrace Socialism!

reply to post by Skyfloating


I see that you are still confused about what socialism is. You are still able to choose who you work for and whether or not you start your own business under socialism.

You seem to be confusing socialism and communism.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

I see that you are still confused about what socialism is. You are still able to choose who you work for and whether or not you start your own business under socialism.

You seem to be confusing socialism and communism.

My last post stated that when I agree to certain working conditions I cannot later call "exploitation" at those conditions. Not sure how your post here refers to that.

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
Answer me one thing has Capatilism done any better than so called Socialism?

Designed, produced and made affordable the computer you typed that on.

edit on 8-10-2010 by NewlyAwakened because: (no reason given)

Computers made in a Communist country??

I will rephrase my question...has Capitilism made an impact for the better for humankind?

reply to post by dizzylizzy


Capitalism has given great things to the world. It has created some useful products, many useless products, and has made some people rich beyond what they can even spend!

Pure capitalism does have its pros, but it also has a ton of cons which makes socialism much better in my opinion. What good is an iPhone if I can't afford to get treatment for a sickness, or need to live in my car?

Magnum

reply to post by Magnum007

What good is an iPhone if I can't afford to get treatment for a sickness, or need to live in my car?

One day there will be an app for that

Self surgery with the Apple Home Surgeon App

Capitalism produces nothing, it suppresses and controls resources.

Capitalism did not produce the computer, it only keeps it from being fully developed.

Is it only a coincidence that technological improvements come around on a regular basis?

Very convenient for helping to keep making money on a regular basis. Technological improvements based on markets, not on what would really help us.

Capitalism produces nothing, it destroys.

Why are we in the Middle East? Because of terrorists? Nah. Oil companies.

Why is Mexico poor? Actually it isn't. It's just that the whole country is owned pretty much by one family, and it pays its workers very poorly, and takes massive amounts of money in 'profits' for themselves. That is capitalism.

Just because it seems to work in the USA it doesn't mean its a good system. It only seems to work here for a lot of people because of the demands made by the labor movement years ago. But now with outsourcing even those gains are being lost. The people lose every time. We now have to compete for jobs with people in China or India, how can we do that? It means we have to except lower wages, or look for other kinds of work putting more and more strain on the job market. And people wonder why there's unemployment. Again good for the capitalists bad for the people. The more unemployed there are the better it is for capitalists, it gives them more power to control. If there is no unemployment and the economy good, then workers gain more power as they can more easily find new work if they are unhappy. People will except lower wages, and worse working conditions, when jobs are scarce. Just as we will except more laws if we feel threatened. The capitalists win, the people lose.

I'm not going to even address the Jesus connection here, but I will address socialism.

There are two socialisms - the first one is the one that's written down on paper as this utopian, idealistic society where everyone gets along and is equal in everyone else's eyes, and you get whatever you need and give whatever you're able, all that business. This is the one that self-proclaimed "socialists" subscribe to, that they somehow believe and hope (those buzzwords sound familiar?) will make the world a better place for everyone. This is an ideal, a concept. One that sounds pretty good to anyone with a heart and a brain, if it were to actually worked that way in practice. Ya know - if the administrators of a socialist state weren't corrupt and greedy and selfish. This brings us to socialism #2:

The socialism of reality. This socialism is the one actually practiced by socialist governments, past and present. It is administered under threat of violence. It takes everything away from the individual and hoards it for the state, which you might have guessed, are really people in positions of power. You see, it's not equal distrubution of a state's wealth among every member of that state, like the paper socialism describes. It's the people in power taking it all, and giving to the rest of the people only what they need to survive. Things like toilet paper - remember the stories about the long lines for basic essentials in socialist USSR? Google it if you're too young. This is the socialism you get when you hand over power to government. People who can't let go of the idealistic notion that their government is acting in the best interest of the people will believe it all the way to the gulag.

This is not to say that capitalism isn't without its flaws. We have a lot of crony capitalism going on in this country right now, and we need to get back to a place where small businesses can thrive and the market is competitive for all, not cornered by "big this" and "big that". Consolidation of companies is counterproductive to capitalism, it's bad for economic growth. Corporations aren't bad themselves, but people at the top of some can be greedy bastards. Between that and all the taxes and regulations, it's a wonder businesses can survive these days. But that's a rant for another thread.

Let me close by quoting a document you may have heard about:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed with by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among them are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness..."

Now as I recall from the Bible, man's Creator is God, and God is Jesus' father. Socialism doesn't come with a constutution that guarantees Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness as provided by our Creator. So where you got that Jesus was a socialist is really well beyond the scope of logic, to me anyway.

Start thinking with your brain for a change - it might clear things up for you.

reply to post by Skyfloating


you just proved your own point, these people are border line evil, so could it be that evil people embrace socialism to discredit it because it is the one true way for all of humanity to have a chance at true happiness.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


right to happiness, u don't believe that crap do you, smoking weed makes me happy, but im deprived of that right by prison sentences and fines.

This has been brought up before in this thread and I will like to issue a shocking discovery! Ahhhh!
Shocking Truth

Originally posted by Wally Hope
Capitalism produces nothing, it suppresses and controls resources.

Capitalism did not produce the computer, it only keeps it from being fully developed.

Is it only a coincidence that technological improvements come around on a regular basis?

Very convenient for helping to keep making money on a regular basis. Technological improvements based on markets, not on what would really help us.

Capitalism produces nothing, it destroys.

Stopped reading there.

reply to post by thrustbucket


You make a good point but seem to have missed mine. I reiterate:

Everyone has to come to their own understanding of Jesus, of course, and I doubt that He himself would have advocated any particular political affiliation or party. His teachings were meant to be universal in their application.

I meant to say I personally think his teachings lean more in the direction of socialism. I did not say the government must institute that socialism. I was not ruling out freedom of choice.

Im sure in God's eyes that there is a difference between donating help/money to others compared to socialism which forcefully takes it.

reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO


You mean like Mark 12:17

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's

Sort of proves the opposite point.
Enforces socialism or at least a group responsibility to ante up to "the big kitty."

So socialism is applied by violent force according to some...

What about foreclosures? Are they not a company's interest being looked after by the government instead of the good of the commoner? Aren't they using force to kick people out of their homes?

How about taxation? Isn't that imposed by force by the government? Don't pay your taxes and see how free you'll be from government enforcement!

Why do you pay taxes? Because you FEAR going to jail. Why do you send your kids to school? Because you FEAR having them taken away from you? Why do you pay your bills? Because you FEAR losing your home.

It's not any different from the made up chimera that socialism was wrong, violent, and nobody liked it! Sure, long lines were common in the USSR, but only when it started breaking up thanks to western influence. It was doing fine before that! Now it has countries like Ukraine who have a ton of exports (coal, wheat, gas pipelines run through it) and a new capitalistic system which makes everyone poor! Instead of long lines for little food at the store, now there are no lines for plenty of food BECAUSE NOBODY CAN AFFORD IT!

Wake up people, socialism is not to be feared, it should be mixed with capitalism to form a super system that takes every good thing from capitalism and every good thing from socialism. This idea is not possible, unfortunately, because people are too proud to give up their "perfect" way of life, for free education, health care, and the likes...

I guess people like to be fat, sick, poor, and stupid as long as they get their big house, big TV, huge sound system, playstations, xbox, iphones, escalades (it's the only vehicle that can carry them anyway!)

Magnum

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet

 

A much better case can be made that Jesus was an anarchist.

Now you're talkin'. I agree with this statement. I'm not a Christian, but I do believe that if Jesus was anything, he was definitely specifically an Anarchist. Good catch!

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet



Not even Jesus could make socialism work. I will sit and be paid the same as you for breaking rocks 12 hours a day! see how this fails?

Originally posted by Niccawhois
reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet

 

Not even Jesus could make socialism work. I will sit and be paid the same as you for breaking rocks 12 hours a day! see how this fails?

You wouldn't just sit and do nothing... I explained that Here Everyone has to do something, and it's all by choice. You choose your profession, you choose the education you want, and you get it... No reason to just sit, you'd be doing something you like to do! Unlike in the US where all the jobs you want, are either taken or you can't afford the education costs!

Magnum

dont conform man fight socialism join a tea party

reply to post by endtimer


I'm going to deny your ignorance...

I live in a socialistic country, it's called Denmark. Everything here in the whole of Scandinavia works fine, if not better than in the rest of the world. Calling socialism 'sick' without any objective reason seems very narrow-minded of you and very unsmart. Socialism is not the same as communism or dictatorship, socialism is socialism. So please don't try to change history, by saying that it has never worked, because it does work very good where I live.