It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by JudgedCover
Once more, I challenge you to live by your own beliefs and concepts. Let your child burn. That is what your perspective of god demands, to do otherwise is hypocrisy.
Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
Originally posted by JudgedCover
I am curious are you an athiest? The reason I ask is because I would like to know how an athiest can acknowledge the concept of love without acknowledging intelligent design?
If there is no creator(s), then isn't what you call love simply chemical reactions in the brain that exist for the perpetuation and protection of your genetic material?
no, i am not an atheist, i believe in a creator
just not the bible fantasy one that loves human and animal sacrifices so you dont have to feel guilty for doing bad things and ridiculous laws that put shame on anyone for feeling bad about who they are
love is ALL encompasing
i like responsibility cause when i do something wrong cause i learn from it and feel sincere when i am sorry for it and really try to make better for what was done
i respect the teachings of jesus and buddha and john lennon etc equally, love is all you need
its what binds us to come together to be one as we are
is there an invisible man in the sky with his son who also himself who is a magic carpenter living in a mansion kicking it for the last 2000 years waiting to destroy everything and take the sunday church pewers back to all their mansions in the sky with a gold and pearls? UH NO
heaven, hell, creation (creator), devils, demons, angels are all inside us, we labeled things to make it better to understand ourselves and remove blame and shame
we made god into an image and made him faulty and labeled him
even if you do believe in satan, he has a part of god in him for god made him, get it?
we are all one collectively, thats what i see, no matter what, gay, straight, trans, black, white, yellow, short, tall, fat, rich, poor, all ONE
harming anyone else to me is sin, its opposite of love
yes at times i sin, and i try hard not to but i still do, i love more than sin though, i need to take responsibility for that and make better those at times i do hurt
Originally posted by JudgedCover
So...animal sacrifices were about guilt and cruelty and not about teaching generation after generation of ancient peoples an object lesson about the one truth in life they needed to understand in order to be saved?
I suppose the story of God asking Abraham to sacrifice his only son was just a cruel joke and not God trying to teach Abraham and all of his descendants the central truth of His plan and the cost of such a plan?
Is in not possible that God wanted to demonstrate to mankind the reality that everytime we commit an act of evil a.k.a. sin, something has to die? Every time we fail, something suffers in life to some degree. The cost of correcting such was going to be huge and God was demonstrating that over and over again each time someone made a sacrifice.
But yes...a God hater and denier will only see one perspective, and that may be true...but then again...
Originally posted by IAMIAM
Originally posted by JudgedCover
Once more, I challenge you to live by your own beliefs and concepts. Let your child burn. That is what your perspective of god demands, to do otherwise is hypocrisy.
Just playing devils advocate here my friend. By your reasoning, you would hand your child a book and say read this and believe it so you don't get burned.
God speaks to all of us. All it takes is quieting ones mind and asking.
Or, you can read the book with an open mind.
Or, you can take some zen meditation.
Or, well ya get the picture.
With Love,
Your Brother
Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
Originally posted by JudgedCover
So...animal sacrifices were about guilt and cruelty and not about teaching generation after generation of ancient peoples an object lesson about the one truth in life they needed to understand in order to be saved?
I suppose the story of God asking Abraham to sacrifice his only son was just a cruel joke and not God trying to teach Abraham and all of his descendants the central truth of His plan and the cost of such a plan?
Is in not possible that God wanted to demonstrate to mankind the reality that everytime we commit an act of evil a.k.a. sin, something has to die? Every time we fail, something suffers in life to some degree. The cost of correcting such was going to be huge and God was demonstrating that over and over again each time someone made a sacrifice.
But yes...a God hater and denier will only see one perspective, and that may be true...but then again...
read all the prophets again my friend, over and over it says he never wants sacrifice, its displeasing, even baby jesus said god never wanted sacrifice, he desires mercy
noone needs to be saved at all
thats what the 10 commandments are, if you fail try again, noone is perfect so how can anyone be saved?
yes i think the abraham story is false, why would a CREATOR ask for death? really think about that
KILL your only son
when all along his laws have always been in place since begininning, thou shall not kill
for fck sucks he never even killed lucifer, get it? so why ask for a human sacrifice?
what the cuss?edit on 14-10-2010 by MurderCityDevil because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by JudgedCover
The sacrfice of Christ was to help mankind embrace love, peace, and honesty etc. and forsake the opposites a.k.a. sin. One brings growth, enlightenment, joy and fulfillment while the other brings suffering and death. This is the meaning of these things and whenever religion perverts this God's truth in it all get's corrupted and lost. Which is why God judged the nation of Israel and the Church time and time again. When those who are given the blessing and responsibilty of representing God to mankind fail to do so and in fact embody the opposite of truth, watch out, Roman swords are coming.
Originally posted by JudgedCover
No of course not. But I know where are coming from because many followers of God do just that. I think you've seen enough of my writings to know I'm not a fundamentalist or an evangelical in my perspectives.
Where it all goes wrong is when mankind incorrectly intereprets who Christ really is and what He really is about. Likewise to do the same with the Bible is equally destructive and counter-productive to the true will of God. The Jewish people and the church have predominantly throughout their histories done both.
Unfortunately, if anyone finds God in this day and age, I mean truly finds Him, they probably have done so IN SPITE of religion as opposed to because of it. And I assure you no one is more distraught at that fact then God, Himself.
Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
Originally posted by JudgedCover
The sacrfice of Christ was to help mankind embrace love, peace, and honesty etc. and forsake the opposites a.k.a. sin. One brings growth, enlightenment, joy and fulfillment while the other brings suffering and death. This is the meaning of these things and whenever religion perverts this God's truth in it all get's corrupted and lost. Which is why God judged the nation of Israel and the Church time and time again. When those who are given the blessing and responsibilty of representing God to mankind fail to do so and in fact embody the opposite of truth, watch out, Roman swords are coming.
i cannot believe that you think your god loves human sacrifice to help all man kind be peaceful and loving
yet so many murders and wars are started in his name, WOW!
Originally posted by JudgedCover
So what you are saying is that man is incapable of war of his own free will and using a higher power to justify his greed and lust and by adding a divine factor to it he somehow adds a perceived validity albeit surface justification of his evil deeds to his people? Really? You are that guy? The guy that thinks that bad things happening equals evil God?
Because I'd like to hear your alternative to this reality. Please explain to me how God can honor the free will and existence of His creation while not intervening at every second around the world at all time and essentially pressing the "rewind" button on existence everytime a rapist gets horny, a mechanic half-a##ess a repair job on a jet engine, a broken father takes his dissapointment in life out on his wife's face or a ruler decides he wants to fulfill his powerlust and go to war.
You can't. Utopia, can't happen while we are in this state. I'm sorry. You can blame God for that all you want, but to ask him to be anything else is asking him to undo his creation. To undo free-will. To erase Adam and Even and start over and I'm sorry but He loves creation and humanity too much to not let it be what it is. Someday the alotted time will run it's course and new existence will occur and those of us who endured this hell called life by finding our light within through His light will know what perfection truly is and understand as a result of living it the opposite of it for so many ages how precious and wonderful that is.
Originally posted by Rustami
you should know then that love rejoices in the truth-300 million and one
Jesus said it is written love the Lord your God with all your being
He also said whoever welcomes one of these little ones called by his Name welcomes him-its written alsoedit on 14-10-2010 by Rustami because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by JudgedCover
reply to post by MurderCityDevil
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but where is it assumed God plays favorites? Man plays favorites, but where is it demonstrated that God does?
If the ultimate result of sin is death
If you can't stomach the reality of sacrifice, then don't sin.
There is no need of any force to counteract all of those things you could have potentially done and therefore Christ's sacrifice for you was not necessary.
If you believe otherwise, then you must explain how you believe that either evil does not exist or how there is no penalty for it or if there is a penalty for it how is said penalty answered and corrected in a way that honors all the laws of nature and reality and the justice and righteousness of a being that is perfect and harmonious in every way. For if the very nature and definition of harmony is balance, how does God offset the reality that is sin and it's consequences while still being true to His perfect sense of justice and harmony?
Originally posted by JudgedCover
reply to post by MurderCityDevil
The reality murder, is that your belief system is a jack of all trades religion. The reality is your biblical criticisms are not rooted in context. Your god is a composite of traits none of which include justice or righteousness. The god you perceive to be god can only exist in a reality where there is no evil that must be restrained, a reality where there are no consequences for choices and actions and a reality where free will does not exist.
Unfortunately, no reality as such exists. So if one chooses to believe in the existence of God then he or she must acknowledge how such a being can be both loving and just. He or she must understand how such a being acknowledges free will. Free will by it's very nature must be dualistic and if there is duality then there are appropriate responses to each prong of that dual nature.
If your god does not hold evil accountable, then your god is not just, nor is your god righteous. He is in fact playing favorites.
Think of it like this. In front of you is an innocent child unable to protect itself. Along comes a vioent man who begins to attack the child intent on killing him. What do you do? You love all life and you believe all people are children of God. The man will not relent from his attack unless you kill him, he is that bent on killing the child.
If you truly love the violent man, how do you kill him? If you love the innocent child how do you stand by and watch him die?
According to what I read of your writings here, if God kills the wicked man, he is not love, but if God ignores the innocent child He is not love. Do you see the problem here?
Either your understanding of what love fully and truly is is wrong or your perception of how God interacts with free will is wrong. You can't have a God who is perfect who is also not just. It simply cannot exist as such.
NOW
If God's answer to man's evil is the redemptive sacrifice of Jesus Christ and in order to be a just sacrifice he must be fully man to satisfy justice but at the same time to be a complete sacrifice he must be fully God to resist the insurmountable force of sin.
To satisfy the man requirement, certain conditions had to be met. Since God also made a promise to the man Abraham as a reward for his great faith that promise now had even more conditions that had to be met. Therefore, the Jewish race had to be protected at various times throughout history, and yes to accomplish the safety and security of the Christ seed (it had to come from Abraham per God's covenant) nations vehemently opposed to God and the Jews had to be eliminated for the greater good. But no where do we see an enemy of the Jews killed that had submitted to God's plan. The harlot Rahab from Jericho and Hagar and Ishmael are a testament that God will always spare those who cry out to him, even ultimately if they originally stood in the way of His divine plan.