So you want Free Energy?

Originally posted by cupocoffee
Yes thank you for connecting EM fields to the Aether. Bearden and Bedini think so too!

I doubt Bearden and Bedini know what the Aether is. If they knew, and furthermore published, it would be all over for the current scientific paradigm.

But you haven't tested the unit I am interested in, you have no direct experience of it, so how can you know the truth about it?

I know for a truth square wheels don't work as good as round ones. I know for a truth wet wood don't burn. And I know for a truth Bedini's device, along with the other 4998 (excepting Symbiot's because he is learning) don't work either. It wouldn't make sense for them to. Not because of laws, but because they are not allowed to work by mandate of the merchants of pain.

No, not the school girl toys. The bigger, more expensive, more useful toy with the output ~ 10KW. That could be modded to power somebody's house.......

I am thinking smaller for starters, like a 100W bulb. But that's O-K, if you are unwilling to learn I will build it for myself. And the only way you will get it is by learning how it works, so you can build one too.

Originally posted by Matyas
I doubt Bearden and Bedini know what the Aether is. If they knew, and furthermore published, it would be all over for the current scientific paradigm.

They have published, Matyas. They have at least two books on 'Free Energy' out now.

I mean, have you ever even gone to cheniere.org to see what all they have?

I am wondering if maybe this is a matter of pride for you? You say you have been in the game for a long time, 40 years. Would it piss you off if Bedini and Bearden beat you to the punch, publish before you, release working units before you? All those years of research and hard work for nothing?

There is clearly some reason why you don't want Bedini's machine to work, and it's obviously not because you believe it's impossible like the others......

Originally posted by cupocoffeeAll those years of research and hard work for nothing?

No penis envy here. Like I said, if they really knew, the current paradigm would be toppled by now. I have watched them since Fidonet.

There is clearly some reason why you don't want Bedini's machine to work, and it's obviously not because you believe it's impossible like the others......

No, there is a reason I know it won't work. The first layer of the onion is theory. The second layer is agenda. The third is money. The fourth is politics. And on we go until the last, fear. You are beginning to see the second layer, but you need to peel away the first layer to identify the second. And so on.

I know these things because I consider myself the luckiest guy in the universe. Thank you universe. I fell through the cracks, and no one saw. I have reached a point where I am in a land of unknowns. I read from a kind of book of dragons, so to speak, with a few others, here, there, and about. This is nothing, I tell you. There was a machine which could melt steel at a distance with the flip of a switch inside a wooden bowl. Machines that control weather. Machines that can attain the speed of light in a day or two. Machines for everything under the Sun (cue Cat in the Hat music). It does frighten, and forces me to change my beliefs.

I stay on track with a little black humor and large doses of lightheartedness. And some help from my friends. Otherwise I could be either insane or dead by now. People ask me, "Are you still alive?" I get it every now and then. And I tell them I am learning to manage it. Like living inside a sci-fi novel.

You think you can reverse engineer my knowledge base by drawing me into a critique of Bearden, Bedini, et al. All good intentions the path to Hell is paved with. I am willing to teach, but not critique. There is so much more to learn compared to what they are doing wrong. And the only way one knows they are learning something is the awareness one has that one knows less than when they started out.

Kind of funny, strange, and wonderful at the same time, don't you think?

well i watched the videos, and being a electrician, i laugh at this.

over and over again people have already stated you can't create energy out of nothing, which is what they are claiming this to do. also their theory is plain wrong, you can't induce current on something that runs perpendicular to the source, or as they say "electricity makes a 90 degree turn".

also all they are doing it taking a generator, and making it power a electric motor ("the rail gun"), there nothing different about their theory vs me taking my generator at home a using it to power a drill motor.

alot of these free energy use magnetism, most people do not seem to understand how magnetism works. look up "transformer" and that is as good as it gets, no moving parts, just pure electricity into magnetism into electricity. 95+% efficient. from there it goes down hill. theres always going to be flux leakage and theres always going to be heat.

the answer to free energy is not going to be creating energy out of nothing, its going to be tapping into sources that are free, water, wind, solar are already in use. anyting that moves or has energy can be turned into another form of energy. use whats around you and think about it.

reply to post by Matyas


Meh.

You keep trying to posture and position yourself as someone superior to B+B with all this top-secret knowledge and experience that they don't have.

But you still haven't shown us anything we can use, or even shown us any evidence to give us any reason to believe that you have something.

In B+Bs case I see patents, schematics, books, videos; I see a large body of supporters helping to replicate their stuff; I see an open-source unit that I could go buy and at least try to install in somebody's house.

What do you have to offer? Words, nothing more.

All this "I am the Master, you are the Student. I can teach you but you must be willing to learn" stuff, I am just not really buying it, sorry....

Originally posted by cupocoffeeYou keep trying to posture and position yourself as someone superior to B+B with all this top-secret knowledge and experience that they don't have.

I don't have to try. There is literature in the public domain which supports my position.

But you still haven't shown us anything we can use, or even shown us any evidence to give us any reason to believe that you have something.

Incorrect. I have now shown you a third piece, the constitution of the Aether, which we should explore in more depth.

In B+Bs case I see patents, schematics, books, videos; I see a large body of supporters helping to replicate their stuff; I see an open-source unit that I could go buy and at least try to install in somebody's house.

As I said, knock yourself out.

What do you have to offer? Words, nothing more.

A good portion of the people on this planet believe the words in a single book, for some it is a Bible, for others the Lotus Sutra, the Qu'ran, Popul Vuh, Mahabharata, on and on, just words, nothing more.

All this "I am the Master, you are the Student. I can teach you but you must be willing to learn" stuff, I am just not really buying it, sorry....

By the time you sit down to listen it will be legend. And legend becomes myth.

Originally posted by Matyas

By the time you sit down to listen it will be legend. And legend becomes myth.

I am in total awe of you, Master!

Can I make a movie about you?

Originally posted by ohhwataloserthe answer to free energy is not going to be creating energy out of nothing, its going to be tapping into sources that are free, water, wind, solar are already in use. anyting that moves or has energy can be turned into another form of energy. use whats around you and think about it.

Correct. The first law of thermodynamics is the first law for a reason. Contemplating what goes on inside a cubic centimeter of space is an exercise that will take years to complete, and even then....

Perhaps I should bug out of here for now. It doesn't behoove me to teach someone (cupo') who does not respect the sanctity of words. Hopefully someone else will come along and pick up the burden.

reply to post by cupocoffee


Maybe someday, when I am dead and gone. As I told you before, I, we, have no interest in it.

Originally posted by Matyas
Perhaps I should bug out of here for now. It doesn't behoove me to teach someone (cupo') who does not respect the sanctity of words. Hopefully someone else will come along and pick up the burden.

Sorry if I was disrespectful to you, Master. But where is your open-source kit?

I can't really learn anything here without some parts and instructions. Well I mean I can learn on an intellectual level, but that won't help me build a free energy system and power my friend's house. Which is my goal.

Is it wrong to have Goals, Master? I guess it isn't very Zen-like to have Goals, is it? I guess I'm a crappy Student.....

Learn by Misstakes...
Keep working and like Kaku said most of the inventions ever made
has been a result of either misstake or a residue of some other
experiment....

Originally posted by rnaa
The thing about electromagnetics is that it has been studied for so long, is so well understood,

This is where you, and everyone argueing against the possibility of extracting a new form of energy, need to pack your bags and go home. We will call you when its ready.

I will leave you with a simple observation. Electrons flow through a conductor at somewhere around 12 FEET PER HOUR. Along the conductor an electromagnetic wave is produced which propagates AT A FRACTION OF THE SPEED OF LIGHT. The electrical signal, however, will have entered and exited the conductor at near the SPEED OF LIGHT!

In any simple physical relation to how we are taught power is produced (P=VI... ROFL!) and utilized in our electronics, can you say what on earth is actually doing all the "work"?

I personally can't. It doesn't make sense to my logical mind. and I have an EE degree... I left my university feeling disenfranchised, with professor's telling me they couldn't answer my questions because they weren't allowed to. What we have in our science books can no longer be accepted as absolute. The real reason most of these projects are not taken seriously, is because the establishment has no way of explaining them.

please tell me how modern man could have overlooked the fact that fire can have more properties than just hot, and hotter... that fire produced from certain fuels would not heat or penetrate certain elements, but could melt others within seconds...

and don't even get me started on eddy currents... electromagnetic signals that leave aluminum bars looking like twisted tree roots... or the modern advent of the induction cooktops and inductive lighting (now with bulbs that never burn out, wow it only took 100 years to bring back the bulb that never died...)

modern physics recently adopted PLASMA as a 4th state of matter... a HUGE HUGE HUGE change that has practically gone unnoticed by the entire world, nevermind the sleeping american public. but nevermind even that, because there is obvious reason for not wanting to advertise this new fact (google: "Florida Plasma Reactor")

AND YET... we still have people quoting wikipedia... and 8th grade physics ROFL!

those who quote 8th grade physics should check the mirror, they might be surprised to find an 8th grader.

peace,
mbzastava

Originally posted by C0bzz

Could you please explain how a generator would turn all by itself? This statement is baffling.

couldn't you just combined some type of electromagnet Motor set up with a solar panel to make something really efficient?

like use the solar power to get the thing generating enough energy for the magnets to take over?

i mean i've seen magnets that pick up really heavy objects at the junkyard and scrap metal places. and im pretty sure those run on gas power, the force generated by those magnets are pretty strong no? and if you are powering them from solar power it would be free no?


i think the real key will be to combine all the free energies together, magnet, wind and solar, you could create a really efficient generator for sure.

Originally posted by mbzastava
modern physics recently adopted PLASMA as a 4th state of matter... a HUGE HUGE HUGE change that has practically gone unnoticed by the entire world, nevermind the sleeping american public.

Define recently. I have no idea what you mean, I've heard plasma referred to as the 4th state of matter as long as I can remember and even before it was called plasma when it was discovered in 1882 it was referred to as a 4th state of matter by the discoverer.

I also regret that you didn't have a better educational experience, I also studied EE and my professors were able to answer questions, well I might add. Unfortunately many of my classmates didn't really understand electromagnetic fields, it's somewhat esoteric to go through all the math and understand all the coursework in detail, lots of them just managed to learn enough to pass the course but I wouldn't say they totally understand it. I thought it's a little hard but not THAT hard, but then I'm better at math than most.

I think electromagnetism is fairly well understood, at least by the people that really understand it, and not by everybody, and as I said even some EEs like many of my classmates don't totally get it.

The area that is hard to understand is quantum mechanics, because as one of the foremost experts in quantum mechanics, Richard Feynman said, "if you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics". We have models and equations that predict the quantum mechanical effects well but the physical reality of what goes in in the quantum world is so foreign to us we don't really grasp it.

That's why I'm surprised to see threads like this one, still claiming some electromagnetic effect will produce free energy, because we understand electromagnetism too well (some of us). Since nobody really can claim to completely understand quantum mechanics, the more clever free energy claims have more recently relied on QM stuff like "zero point energy" or "vacuum energy" as the source rather than some magnetic effect, and to some people their claims sound more credible because we don't understand quantum mechanics as well as electromagnetism.

From my own perspective, I'm pretty confident that nobody will extract free energy from an electromagnetic contraption like the one in the OP. I'm more open minded about the claims involving quantum mechanics, simply because we don't understand quantum mechanics nearly as well as we understand electromagnetism. When I say open minded, it means I'm more willing to look a the claims and experimental results to see if anyone has come up with anything interesting, and while I think such a device is unlikely I wouldn't say impossible. Some of the ideas are nonsense though, like zero point energy, since that means the system is already at its lowest possible energy state, why some people think you can extract energy from the lowest possible energy state is a mystery, it makes no sense at all.

Oh and did you know there are a couple of NASA scientists who will test and validate (or not as the test results show) experiments by free energy energy inventors?

NASA scientists Nelson & House willing to verify overunity electromagnetic machines

So they must be at least a little open minded too, for them to be willing to spend their spare time doing this type of work. But they are needed because even some electrical engineers don't seem to know how to set up the measurements properly to eliminate sources of measurement errors, a problem which is all too common in this field. The multiple banks of batteries, and spikey waveforms in Bedini's system pose extra measurement challenges. They even give some guidelines on what they expect to see before they spend time on their validation efforts. You can read about all of them at the source but I'll just mention one here which seems to be lacking in tests of Bedini's apparatus:

the designer needs to test their motor under a known mechanical load. If they don’t have a dynamometer available, then the simplest way to do this is to simply have their motor lift a known weight by winding a string or flexible cable of some sort around a spindle. This will serve as their homemade “dynamometer” if you will.

This type of data is sorely lacking in some of the in-depth testing I've seen of Bedini's stuff, but these guys are right on the money in asking for it. In the case of Bedini's setup it could be any motor attached to the secondary batteries doing the work. The nice thing about lifting a load is, no matter how spikey the waveform is, it's a lot easier to measure the movement of a mechanical load since it's simple and fairly accurate, unlike the electrical measurement which is not simple at all.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I think electromagnetism is fairly well understood, at least by the people that really understand it, and not by everybody, and as I said even some EEs like many of my classmates don't totally get it.

I apologize if this seems shortsighted, but are you insinuating that 90% of the electrical engineers in the world are operating their understanding on pure faith?

are you also claiming to be in the 10% that actually knows what electricity is? this is just hilarious... thank god its too esoteric for you to explain to me...

i stated something even you can't deny. 100% of electrical engineers on this earth do not know exactly what electromagnetism is nor is fully capable of. please do not patronize us with your egotistic fantasies.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by mbzastava
modern physics recently adopted PLASMA as a 4th state of matter... a HUGE HUGE HUGE change that has practically gone unnoticed by the entire world, nevermind the sleeping american public.

Define recently. I have no idea what you mean, I've heard plasma referred to as the 4th state of matter as long as I can remember and even before it was called plasma when it was discovered in 1882 it was referred to as a 4th state of matter by the discoverer.

this is actually quite funny that you countered with its discovery date. even wikipedia won't help you there, as it does not describe plasma as actually being accepted as a 4th state. (i know you looked there, else you would have linked or cited your source =P). they have known it was something else since the 1880's yes, but has not been accepted as such until recently. And by recently, since i graduated college in 06 and till then had never been TAUGHT that plasma was a 4th state of matter, I can say is pretty damn recent. I tend to recall reading an ieee article about two or three years ago that pretty much gave me the impression they finally had accepted it. it was also around the same time they accepted the knowledge that the "vacuum" is "not empty". and ofcourse these two realizations by the established paradigm go hand-in-hand.

I challenge you to cite an american physics textbook in use today that proves you correct. who knows, maybe you know different. never forget that what you take as common knowledge may be entirely new to others.

Originally posted by mbzastava
I apologize if this seems shortsighted, but are you insinuating that 90% of the electrical engineers in the world are operating their understanding on pure faith

As I recall maybe 85-90% of the EE students passed the electromagnetism course I took. But even out of those that passed it, I think it's safe to say that less than half understood it well.

I wasn't insinuating anything about pure faith. Many of these folks went on to get jobs designing digital circuits where a less than thorough understanding of electromagnetic fields wouldn't hinder their job performance so I didn't see it as a major problem for their careers.

What I'm saying is that anytime you confer a degree to a large class of people, some are going to walk away with a better understanding of the subject matter than others, so all I'm really claiming is a normal bell curve of knowledge among the EE population like in any other field of study. And the midpoint of that bell curve was lower for the electromagnetic fields course than for any other course. That's all I'm saying.

So don't assume all EEs understand this stuff, and don't assume all EE's don't. The truth is somewhere int the middle of those two extremes

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by mbzastava
I apologize if this seems shortsighted, but are you insinuating that 90% of the electrical engineers in the world are operating their understanding on pure faith

As I recall maybe 85-90% of the EE students passed the electromagnetism course I took. But even out of those that passed it, I think it's safe to say that less than half understood it well.

I wasn't insinuating anything about pure faith. Many of these folks went on to get jobs designing digital circuits where a less than thorough understanding of electromagnetic fields wouldn't hinder their job performance so I didn't see it as a major problem for their careers.

What I'm saying is that anytime you confer a degree to a large class of people, some are going to walk away with a better understanding of the subject matter than others, so all I'm really claiming is a normal bell curve of knowledge among the EE population like in any other field of study. And the midpoint of that bell curve was lower for the electromagnetic fields course than for any other course. That's all I'm saying.

So don't assume all EEs understand this stuff, and don't assume all EE's don't. The truth is somewhere int the middle of those two extremes

you are attempting to defend your own intellect and it shows... the foundations are no longer solid. step aside and watch as the shell crumbles, and the core is renovated with new and improved physics. brought to you by the human population. no thanks necessary.

peace,
mbzastava

Originally posted by ArcAngel
You should really use the search function as a post like this is highly insulting to the members here.

These devices are scams. There's a real good reason why there are none of these in operation, and it isn't because of oil company conspiracies. From wikepaedia please learn and deny ignorance!

The law of conservation of energy is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed: it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing that can happen to energy in a closed system is that it can change form: for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy.
Albert Einstein's theory of relativity shows that energy and mass are the same thing, and that neither one appears without the other. Thus in closed systems, both mass and energy are conserved separately, just as was understood in pre-relativistic physics. The new feature of relativistic physics is that "matter" particles (such as those constituting atoms) could be converted to non-matter forms of energy, such as light; or kinetic and potential energy (example: heat). However, this conversion does not affect the total mass of systems, since the latter forms of non-matter energy still retain their mass through any such conversion.[1]
Today, conservation of “energy” refers to the conservation of the total system energy over time. This energy includes the energy associated with the rest mass of particles and all other forms of energy in the system. In addition, the invariant mass of systems of particles (the mass of the system as seen in its center of mass inertial frame, such as the frame in which it would need to be weighed) is also conserved over time for any single observer, and (unlike the total energy) is the same value for all observers. Therefore, in an isolated system, although matter (particles with rest mass) and "pure energy" (heat and light) can be converted to one another, both the total amount of energy and the total amount of mass of such systems remain constant over time, as seen by any single observer. If energy in any form is allowed to escape such systems (see binding energy), the mass of the system will decrease in correspondence with the loss.
A consequence of the law of energy conservation is that perpetual motion machines can only work perpetually if they deliver no energy to their surroundings.

Your statement is correct, BUT it only applies to a "closed system" and more often than not when you read about magnetic free energy devices, i agree many are just crap, but there is a small percentage that have merit and need to be reviewed, as the OP has said; but the point being that these systems are "Open Systems" which menas they are merely converters, not generators....it is an easy mistake made by many main stream scientists.

You also need to take note that these laws assume there is no energy in our surroundings when in actual fact there is an abundance of energy everywhere, proven, call it the "ether", "zero point" or whatever, its accepted fact but nobody has found a way to "convert" it. When you hear about some of these "converters" running cold and cooling effects then there is the elephant in the room, they are converting amient energy and changing the state from random into coherent. When there is a colling effect then energy os being removed and an output create thus not violating and laws of thermodynamics or conservation of energy.

Now these devices mentioned i believe will work, that is my opinion, i am not a fool, i am not delusional and i dont expect to be treated like one. When people become aggressive against these ideas that is the biggest sign that those submitting such arguments have not fully grasped how science and experimentation evolves. Without free thinkers we would get nowhere.

Peace.

Try to keep in mind that the laws of physics are merely interpretations of how man understands that the universe works. Throughout history the laws of physics have changed because our understanding was proven incorrect time and time again

Anything is possible but until we remove the dogma that has perpetuated the train of thought of many people you will find it very hard to get any kind of support for any working solution.