Survival When TSHTF!

Top Myths of when SHTF:

www.whenshtf.com...

1)SHTF = total Mad Max style meltdown where the world reverts to the dark ages and we're all running around in gun battles.
SHTF could be anything from a chemical spill to TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) stuff.
Don't get locked into thinking a SHTF event is only ________. SHTF is not one specific, monolithic event. Realize most SHTF scenarios result in the same outcome, be it short term or indefinitely. That’s why it’s vital you don't put all your eggs in one basket. Like many areas or this particular skill set, TRAINING is key!

2) "Gear trumps skills." False. I've slowly learned that over time. Gear is cool and fun and I'll likely never revoke my membership in GearWhore of the Month club. That said, focus on building your skill sets. Cool gear without the ability to use it is not overly valuable.
As Darwin said “It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change”. A strong part of what we are as humans depends on our use of tools. There is a reason that expert archers gave way to untrained masses of soldiers with primitive firearms.

I've had this conversation with some other preppers. They're like "We all need to band together, move as a group for safety". So I say "Sure I'll fight beside you. I just need 6 gallons a day of water for me the wife and the kid (don’t think I'd leave them behind do you?), 3600 cals a day cause I will be marching in armor, and 2000 each for my wife and kids. I also need equal share of all looted gear and ammo as usable. And...". It hit home pretty quick that there’s a reason there is a supply train behind armies. Most people can't carry enough on their person to live long with weapons, ammo, and armor.

In all honesty if I'm bugging out the armor, all ammo besides a few mags, and such are left behind. All I'm carrying is my expanded BoB.
Everything else goes into my prepped cart for pulling along.
Just my .02 Your mileage may vary.

What do you think?


[edit on 8-9-2010 by rajaten]

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reply to post by rajaten


Emergencies exist in many forms. From simple short term power outages, to home fires that can displace you from your place of residence for a few days or forever. Weather takes its toll in many different styles. I have been on roads that have been closed in the middle of a trip due to ice and snow, and my three day pack made the seventeen hour dead-stop in freezing weather bearable. Because of planning and training, I had food, water, blankets and a car candle as well as entertainment. As a nine year old, my family was completely snowed in once, and lucky for us Dad had just filled the heating fuel tank and the pantry was stocked. In the 90’s, VERY heavy rains flooded my neighborhood and we were without any power for four days. The next block over the dark lasted for almost twice as long! I had food, lights and security.

Survival isn’t always about a rifle, a pack and evading a group of zombies! Sometimes it’s as simple as a hot beverage and a roll of toilet paper!

In the case of a true, solid map changing emergency, it’s often good to have plans to evacuate your primary residence if need be and if there are no other options. For my family and I, we really don’t have many options due mainly to extended family in the area among other ‘issues’. I have wondered how realistic a “bug out” is for me and my family, and what our options may be, so, here we go…

If I am anything, I am resourceful. Transplant me into the suburbs, the inner city, doesn’t matter, I’ll make it with whatever I can. Don’t get me wrong, I’d prefer to be way, way out as long as I have resources. The problem is that there is a REASON there are no houses out in the middle of the desert: it’s very difficult to live out there.

In most cases, places where there are no people are places that people don’t want to be, usually. Essentially what I am saying is that you must find a happy medium. There is typically an optimum place to be. That place is not in the most remote, desolate place in the country. It probably isn’t the most lush, green valley either because that’s probably where everyone will try to go.

Many people when confronted with someone that intends to ‘bug in’ within the suburbs simply say, “Dude, You’re dead!.” They’ll simply dismiss the idea and walk away. There are definable disadvantages to a suburban bug in when compared to a more rural, cached safe-house.

Let’s first examine why the suburbs are there. They are there because there is a city nearby. The city is noisy and crowded and often stinky and crime ridden, however, the city has JOBS! The suburbs are there because the city has jobs but is often a less than optimal place to live. However, WTSHTF, the cities are not what they were. Literally, they are no longer cities, they can become “#ies”. They will become nothing but miles of human garbage and filth. Massive sewage backups when the processing machinery and lift pumps stall, and no one to police the piles of garbage that will grow….and that includes the two-legged variety.

So now, after the emergency event the reason for the creation of the ‘burbs is gone. But now, many of the people will be gone too. It could be also true that your neighbors left and you’ll have new neighbors (squatters) and I’m betting they won’t be interested in helping you trim your hedge, or secure your perimeter.

The biggest problem with the suburbs is that you will be a target for looting. One way this can be fixed by trashing your own place. Board up the windows and spray paint the crapola out of it. Make it look like the last place you’d want to either loot or squat in. Break out your association’s manual (assuming you have a home owners association or group). Take it step by step. Whatever they say not to do, that’s probably what you want to do. All joking aside, a nice looking place amongst a bunch of trashed out places will be encircled and attacked repeatedly until they (the looters) get everything they want. Make it look uninviting and uninhabitable. If there are FEMA “X”’s painted on other doors, paint one on yours. Cheap WalMart rattle cans should be in your stores anyway.

I see one of the main difference between a remote bug out and a suburban bug in is that you’ll have to live inside almost the whole time. Outside the human wolves will be looking for anything they can devour. I think the thing I would do is make sure I had a basement but make it look like I didn’t. No windows, no outside access and then once TSHTF, modify the inside so there appeared to be no access. Retreat to there and just stay there until it’s over. Essentially, find a crack in the rock and stay there until the danger passes.

In my opinion, suburban bug in as a temporary measure only. It is doable if you have a basement or a bunker you can hide in. Maybe even above ground will work if the house is brick and you can securely board up the windows and the doors are heavy enough to secure. Once things start coming back, you’d probably be OK. If you store enough food and energy to get you through the emergency you can then come out of hiding and start working with whomever or whatever gets things under control. However, in a TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) situation, I do not see a suburban bug in as doable. Eventually you will run out of water, power and food. Even if you have 10 years worth, someone with bigger guns and more ammo will eventually find you and take it. Once the wolves see the light and smell the food cooking, you may be screwed. The same dangers exist in the wilderness. Ever sit by a nice cozy campfire and have someone walk up on you? Your night vision has been compromised, and if someone has encircled your camp, outside the light of the fire, you may never see them! Stay Sharp!


www.whenshtf.com...

[edit on 8-9-2010 by rajaten]

reply to post by rajaten


I 2nd most everything raj has said...."most everything"

Best advice I can offer anyone, even considering, "being prepared".
Geared up...so to say.
Take a 2 night 3 day, float trip, or hike/camp. Monthly or weekly!

Nothing better than experience! I can't stress that enough!

High tech guns, toys, tools, knives, and the semi truck load of canned goods and supplies are not practical.....

For example....Someone packing heavy, 2 glocks, tech9, crocodile dundee knife, sacks of rice, sugar,ECT...ECT... "you get the idea" ...all jack booted up, WILL be very slow, and most likely noisey, which makes for very..very...easy pickings.
All they are really doing.... nothing more than carrying too much gear..yeah its cool, but when/if TSHST and things become, man vs man"families" ...people are going to be ruthless!
I will be gratefull to all those that have packed extra "my" LOL.. gear into the woods, and surrounding sub-burbs, saving me the hassle of bringing a pack mule.

Not to mention, packing that heavy, makes a person a very slow, easily tracked...TARGET...

As far as location, I don't like the desert, "adds many limits" as to your options/living style/conditions....rivers creeks, WILL be the way to go, stay near them, for everything, food, water, transportation "you can be a stealth ninja" in the cover of darkness, slipping along a creek river..

Sub-burbs and cities..IMO...are NOT an option, but as always it depends on the type of event, in the end, no matter the event, it will be man vs man...trying to provide for family and needs.

Hence my training....PLEASE...anyone trying to prepare for any event...from power outage to, police state.....GO FLOATING/CAMPING...all the cool gear in the world, is worthless, without, experience!
Know the land as well as the animals that live there!
star for you for posting RAJ...

Last bit of preachin....
"Many live to survive...some survive to live"
Figure out which you are! Its a simple reallity, that will keep you/most from panicking.
I don't just want to survive, I enjoy living!
Does not matter, if I'm in the woods or by a river.....happy living, sure beats the hell out of depressed survival!
Slow down you mentality, "think more as a child would" your frame of mind, "accepting" things will be the most important thing, happieness is key!

PS..I miss your old avvy.

I advise you to go to a mountain cave. Make sure to have enough water and food for a while. Seal it off and wear masks for the first few months.

reply to post by rajaten


Great thread but 80% related to firearms...

I'm in Australia...

There's a $1000 fine here for carrying a bread knife...

Makes it just a little tougher,,

reply to post by CynicalM


I hear your country has lax laws on crossbows... Otherwise I'd just invest in a nice samurai sword

reply to post by rajaten


Wrong, both are heavily restricted...

Sheesh, an air rifle is tough, sling shots not far behind...

reply to post by CynicalM


Well I guess you will have to become

a ninja then my friend.



[edit on 8-9-2010 by rajaten]

Great post with solid information! I would differ on only a few minor points -
A shotgun is the best home defense weapon. Use buckshot to kill, birdshot to discourage intruders.

Bugging "In" - Learn how to make alarms and boobytraps. Know and network with neighbors and family. Keeping watch 24/7 will be an impossibility with very small numbers.
HAVE NIGHT VISION EQUIPMENT!!!!!!
Your worst problems will probably come under cover of darkness. There is no other way to keep the advantage without night vision equipment.
Stock up on extra medications you may use and find alternate or natural remedies to extend or replace your medicines.
Stock up on trade items - heirloom seeds, ammo, water filters - whatever you can trade with to get what you need later.

Bugging "Out" - Get topo maps of every area that you might consider going to. Have more than one bugout destination as your primary area could be compromised when you get there (large numbers of people already there etc)
Everyone will be following roads or watercourses. Stay away from them both and travel along hedgerows and woods during cover of night.
Mountain bikes might be better than vehicles to reach your destination.

For lightest weight and flexibility I think the Thompson Contender would be a great choice, perhaps with barrels in .22/12 ga and .223 or 7.62x39.

I would always carry a backup subcompact pistol, something easily concealed. My choice is a Ruger LCP .380 (yeah, I know - not a common caliber).

Skills are the most important thing to have. You can still survive with absolutely nothing if you have them and the will the survive. Stealth is more important than firepower. Avoid confrontations whenever possible.

Campfires at night will be neon "come and get me" signs, Learn to do without for the most part.

Great post Rajaten, You have your stuff together (just like Doc Holiday). If TSHTF I would much prefer to be in a small group with people like you.

Star and flag. Nice contribution Raj


[edit on 8-9-2010 by Asktheanimals]

reply to post by rajaten


lol, loved that movie...

But I'll get by, pretty handy with most things..

And I've always had this feeling that Australia will be a safe place when TSHTF..

Huge island, tiny population..Southern hemisphere..Works for me

reply to post by rajaten


Is this original content written by you?

Looks vaguely familiar...

reply to post by Chadwickus


Hmm, nice spot..Guess its because you're an Aussie like me.

www.whenshtf.com...

reply to post by CynicalM


Indeed.

Almost word for word, unless raj is on the staff at whenshtf...

reply to post by CynicalM


awesome I was wondering where this wisdom came from. Now I can reference it cheers M.

reply to post by rajaten


You were wondering where you copy and pasted it from?

Good for you...

[edit on 8-9-2010 by rajaten]

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Night vision sure gives you an edge. I found these on ebay for 20 dollars:

if youre not a survivalist you will be soon..
any boy scout will tell you to be prepared.
for what where and how grim..hard to say.
hunker down or run for it.?
i have my passport-my bags stay packed.
i would hope to have enough heads up to fly
to costa rica.i have a little prefab concrete home
sitting on a hillside waiting. my tico family tends to it
and my dirt bike. thats where i would head.
i have a few gold coins left and there's other places i could
fall back to- if there was a way. or i get stuck where i'm at...
middle of phoenix. already a tough spot to survive.
but my girl pal is grounded here- shes a farmer,
works in greenhouses. we have food and water stores for
several months- a couple dogs- a double barrel 12 ga with
an assortment of shells- heavy duty bolt cutters- bicycles.
but phoenix could be a nightmare if the power goes off.
then what..out to the north as best as able..my sons place is
where the hells angel shootout was last week..a quiet little town.
yeah- are you going from the frying pan to the fire?
what if a forced evacuation ala fema ?
or get pinned down by illness/accident..
shudder to think what could go wrong.
i'm already crippled up with nerve damage and
not going to be keen on alot of disruption.
i might prefer a hunter s thompson exit plan..
i got better things to do than suffer alot more hardships.
load of pills, lots of booze and its time to clean the gun..
meanwhile..i plunk around cyberia, read alot of reports.
"situational awareness"..pay attention or pay something else.
cover your asset is all i can tell ya.
you could join survivalistboard.com
read world made by hand -james knustler.
make use of the net while its on.
to prepare for when it goes off.
you sure enough better get some kind of gun and ammo..
and what ever else you think will come in handy.
never ever go the way of australia..or england..
i just shake my head and want no part of it.
get an h&r shotgun for 120 bucks.
old mosin nagant for 100
makarov auto pistol 200
ruger 1022- around 200
sks-300 ak-500
anything is better than nothing.
but avoiding conflict and not resorting to guns
should be the order of the day.
bullets will be precious commodities.
-dang buckshot is a buck a shot..
you could tune into the slingshot channel.com.
that guy is amazing. funny too.
meanwhile-take up gardening. learn a basic craft.
run some what-if plays thru your head .
tuck some food away-go to the farmers market.
get a water filter system, some hand tools..
and most important- a thinking cap.
or tin /kelvar composite helmet.
-my groove is like a trench..

Looking at a map of the world, 'bugging out' is okay for large countries like Russia, Canada, USA, Brazil, OZ, but, looking at the small countries, Luxembourg, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, the UK, so where do those people 'bug out' to? they seem mostly cities and towns anyway.
Just wondering.

actually you could say it has hit the fan...
the cops have been militarized and serve the warlords.
civilians are expendable rights and freedoms suspended.
to be disarmed..drugged..distracted..disabled..dismantled..
look at katrina/the bp sabotage/chemical attacks of corexit.
gulf stream to the bloodstream. being used all over the planet.
the war on humanity is already being fought. the petro/chemical
drug /military ops are ongoing. it is the new world order- now.
serf city here we come.