Trying to save your home will get you tased

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reply to post by LoneGunMan

Excellent post, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I openly admit that I don't know everything yet some people seem to think they always know best, without the reasoning or consequences.


reply to post by xxcalbier

My sentiments exactly! It's nice to have your company here. Some people will never be happy yet too blind-sighted to see anything but what they choose.

It is going to get to the point that every time the police show up people are going to go for there guns. I can see it now. There is a car and the police show up. There are a dozen people there with guns to protect them self FROM the police. Your house is on fire. On the way out the door grab the guns and ammo to protect your self from the fire dept and police when they show up.

It is going to get to the point that it is going to be open season on cops.

And for the cops reading this think about your actions and what they will lead to. You have a tough enough job as it is but if you keep think up it can only lead to a bad end for everyone. And remember that badge and gun do not make you some kind of god. The police has to change they way they are doing things before we pass a point of no return. This country is in a bad enough shape as it is. If this keeps up in the end it will lead to a civil war. Is that what you want? Well it looks like some one does. The rest of the world is just wanting to jump us and stomp us into the ground and if a civil war was to break they would not miss the chance to do just that.

Together we stand, divided we fall.

reply to post by fixer1967

Let's just get rid of the police and fire fighters and arm all civilians with garden hoses and guns. When someones house goes on fire they can fight it themselves with a garden hose, without the nuisance of anyone who's trained or knowledgeable. When they burn down their neighbors house they'll be able to use their guns to argue over the efficiency of the garden hose and deal with the outcome themselves.

Together we stand, divided we fall.

The whole problem here is the Taser, it's just unethical to Taser a man trying to save his home. I agree with fixer1967 post above.... The tide will turn if the cops keep making inappropriate decisions with these torture weapons, it will eventually exasperate the public against them.

reply to post by imitator


I agree..They SLOWLY move the "goal posts" over time.


Tasers have not been around long and I remeber all the debates about whether they should be allowed or not...

The Police won in the end....

Their reason (and why public agreed) was that they would ONLY be used as a "last resort" instead of "deadly force"...ie: A GUN...

Look whats happened since!!
We are slowly being acclimatized to accept their use in nearly every policing encounter...

Soon Tasering will be mandatory, just incase....

reply to post by SaturnFX


Better to do everything in your power to get him to safety than to allow him to get himself killed on your watch. Can you imagine if they let him battle it and he ended up with massive burn damage or worse, dead, yeah that's not going to look good for the fire/police department. Better to be tased but otherwise fine than have 3rd degree burns or be in the grave.

reply to post by Three_moons


Your welcome. Here is another tid bit. The fire service uses water because its the most available large heat sink. When getting a fire under control the first priority is to get rid of the heat. The only way to do this is lots of cold water coming out at the rate of...a fire hose! lol A garden hose will only douse embers, and give you a cool drink.

You ever wonder why firefighters have that piece of cloth hanging down from the back of the helmet to the shoulder? What I was saying in my previous post about the super heated gases on the ceiling getting disrupted, well if this happens and units are crawling on there bellies trying to get to the heat source that piece of Nomax cloth keeps the back of your neck from getting scorched when those gases roll down to the floor from either a firefighter accidentally spraying to high up and the water jet disrupts those gases or someone walking through a door upright creating a vortex.

Fun stuff.

[edit on 8-9-2010 by LoneGunMan]

Just curious, what would have been done had it not been reptiles inside the burning building, but instead, say, a child?

Would now there be an allowance for someone to enter the home?

If not - and the man had kept trying to enter - would he still be restrained from doing so?

All I know is that if it had been me in this situation, and the cops wanted to play this way, they'd have been coming in with me... I don't care what anyone says.

reply to post by Common Good

OR. They could have just turned off his hose?

No, that was not an option.

These are only cops that we are talking about, not rocket scientists.

There is no way they could have come up with that idea.

Originally posted by Three_moons
I openly admit that I don't know everything yet some people seem to think they always know best, without the reasoning or consequences.

It doesnt matter if you know best or not. You should be completely free to waltz blindly and stupidly off the cliff if you so choose without some douchebag tackling or tazing you.

Your life isnt anyone elses to save.

The guy shouldnt have been acting like an idiot over some snakes, but at the same time tazers can kill people too, what if they tazed him and he died?


How about we taze all cops when they show up for duty? its a dangerous job so we cant allow them to hurt themselves by doing it.

I'm waiting for the benevolent dictator to get elected and throw all the torturers and the torture supporters in jail.

The police had no reason to electro-torture this man. They committed a Crime Against Humanity; which is what torture is.

I find all these stories about people being stopped from helping in a disaster very upsetting. There are too many stories like this.

So what if the man was only after his snakes. The same would have happened to him if it WAS a child he was trying to rescue. In the UK not too long ago a block of flats went on fire. The Fire Dept and Police decided it was too dangerous to go in and they restrained people from helping their families who were screaming out the window for help. Come on, if you wont help then mind your own business. I've even read of police watching little kids drown in cars and stopping the parents from diving in there. They have to wait for specialist police divers who take two hours to arrive.

This also reminds me of a plane crash in Russia that was on the news a few years back. A woman amongst a crowd of family members was screaming with grief because she'd lost family on the plane. Next thing you know, a hand reached up behind her and stuck a needle in her neck to knock her out. This is all the same thing.

There are times when law has to be relaxed. Ok, police have to protect, but not ALL THE TIME. My house burning down, my business if you don't want to help. My kids are drowning, my business to risk my life if you don't want to help.

People are forgetting snakes are the pets.

It seems easily justifiable if it was a kid, then ya...run in with the guy and see what you can do.

but lets make it a gray area...what if it was the family dog trapped in a room...not a child, but certainly more familiar than a snake...would you try to fight it out to save ole sparky? Would you want the freedom to run into your property, knowing your risking injury and potential life to save the old boy?

I still say the cops were thinking they were acting in the best interest of everyone involved, but their is a philosophical debate to be had here...do you have the right to put yourself in danger on your own property

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
It's a crime to do for yourself. Once you or somebody else has called the lords you're life, liberty and property are forfeit.

Did you happen to see the footage of the cops at the roadblocks this morning around the CA fires refusing to let people gather belongings? Even pets. They were turning away sobbing people wishing to collect their pets. Threatening to arrest them even.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I may burn to death up there trying to get my pets out but I also may not. If I sit here in my car they will surely burn to death and I will surely develop a deep and intense hatred and distrust for the cops and the government.

What is so ironic is that they will pull a gun on you and will shoot you if you violate their order. I've seen it happen in Malibu. It is all about instilling fear into the population in general. The life of the individual is irrelevant. Kill or jail one and maybe the rest will comply. If not kill or arrest a few more.

reply to post by pacific_waters




Yup. They care so much about your safety they're willing to shoot you to keep you safe.

Like training guns on a suicidal jumper. Maybe the bullets will catch him and he'll gently glide to safety.

These stories just keep getting sadder and sadder with time...

Points:

• It is the responsibility of the individual to protect themselves, not that of any governmental agency. Anything less is unworkable and equates to a removal of the basic right to life. The police cannot be everywhere all the time, but a disaster or a criminal attempt can happen anywhere at any time. When such occurs, one has but two choices: accept their fate, or try and fight it.
  
  Have any of you ever seen a wounded animal cornered? I have seen rabbits and squirrels turn vicious when their life or that of their babies is threatened. It is also well known around here that the most dangerous wild animal is a black bear cub... because you can throw rocks at Momma all day and she will probably just run off; get within 50 feet of her cub and you just became fertilizer.
  
  All creatures have the right to try and defend themselves... that is not some basic human right, but a natural right that has been in existence since before humans could think up the concept of rights.
  
  
   
  One can make the argument that the police were acting in the best interest of the man by restraining him by taser, but that then blows a hole in another argument I am sure many people on the side of the cops would also be agreed to: corporal punishment of a child. A good spanking has been used for centuries, even millenia, to correct children and thereby protect them from the consequences of inappropriate (or even dangerous) actions... yet this is frowned upon today. So will someone explain to me how a 50kV electric shock to an adult is somehow OK while a slap on the butt of a six y/o is not? the adult has the right and ability (assumed ability anyway) to make their own informed decisions; the child does not have the mental capability to yet see the consequences of their actions. The taser can kill; a spanking hurts for a few hours.
  
  So someone help me out here... aren't we sorta backward when we say it was 'for his own good'?
  
  
   
  I mentioned the lethal ability of the taser... OK, here's a little technical information:
  
  A taser applies an initial voltage of 50,000 Volts of current for a few milliseconds, then cuts that down to about 5000 Volts for the duration of the discharge. The purpose of the 50kV surge is to ionize your body so the 5kV can do the job of scrambling your nervous system. As opposed, an electrical household outlet contains 100-150 Volts of electrical pressure, and is enough to warrant warning labels on anything electrical that is even near the raw power supply. While it is a fact that 120VAC will actually not kill most people (although it will hurt like Hades itself; do not try this!), it is still considered dangerous.
  
  Electricity applied through the body reacts in unpredictable ways as well. The real problem is which path it will take in which amounts through the body tissues. It takes only a few milli-Amps of current to scramble the electrical signals from the nerves to the heart, far less than what either a taser or a power outlet can provide. Luckily, there is usually an easier path for the electricity to follow through your body. Notice I said 'usually'... we all have heard of people dying from exposure to either that power outlet or a taser shot. The myriad of fluids constantly in motion in your body mean that the path is constantly changing, even while electricity is surging through you.
  
  It is also a fact that one of the more heinous tortures applied to prisoners by 'war criminals' has historically been electric shock, primarily due to the extreme pain it inflicts.
  
  
   
  I have had to call the local Fire Department a few times in my life; one memorable time was when my stepfather lit a huge brushpile in a high wind. The flames jumped off the pile and began racing across the dry grass in the field toward the mountain and our barn. I spent two hours stomping fires out and tossing buckets of water that my wife and kids were bringing me (we had no hydrants there and no tiime to gather up hoses) along with my stepfather until the fire department arrived with their trucks. They were delayed because there was another fire already going that they had to finish with before they could get to us.
  
  Now, it didn't seem like we were doing much good while we waited for them to arrive, but in the end we really did. We managed to save the barn; I stopped one line from circling back through some old oily car parts I had stored toward my mother's house; there was little damage to the mountain itself because we kept the fire from establishing a 'hot spot' in the grass.
  
  Should we have just called and waited, while gnashing our teeth and wailing?
  
  No. The danger to our property was primarily our responsibility. The Fire Department is there as an assistance, not a guaranteed service. Just try to sue the Fire Department because they failed to put out a fire; you will be told very quickly that they have absolutely no liability nor final responsibility to you. That means as bearer of primary responsibility for our property, the authority to determine the best course of action is also ours. With authority comes responsibility; with responsibility comes authority. That is an equation that cannot be changed.

If the primary responsibility for the protection of his home rested with the homeowner, and with the knowledge that it is his natural right to protect himself and his property, and understanding that the use of a taser is potentially lethal, it appears to me that this action by the police was totally unreasonable, unwarranted, and unconscionable. Every single authority figure at that scene who did not at least make an attempt to stop the use of a taser on the homeowner should be required to pay for the restoration of the man's property to its original condition, removed form any and all future civil service, and be convicted of assault with a deadly weapon. That would still not make things right again completely, but it would go a long way towards it, and set an example for future encounters:

With increased authority comes increased responsibility.

With increased responsibility comes increased authority.

TheRedneck


[edit on 9/8/2010 by TheRedneck]

people are not understanding the proper use of a tazer gun. it is meant to be used on armed suspects who are holding weapons like knives or bats. not recommended for use on people armed with fire arms. this man was armed with a water hose so unless he was that bald headed guy from the transporter i think that the cops a could have just shut off his pressure and b physically restrained him. also why would you electrically restrain someone standing in water would it have been funny if charge went through water and stunned man and dumb cops

Originally posted by A-Dub
The guy shouldnt have been acting like an idiot over some snakes, but at the same time tazers can kill people too, what if they tazed him and he died?

it would have been an accident. they attempted to restrain him and he wouldn't cooperate. more than likely the idiot was so intent on saving his snakes that he wouldn't follow their orders when it was obvious he couldn't do anything but kill himself.

How about we taze all cops when they show up for duty? its a dangerous job so we cant allow them to hurt themselves by doing it.

police know its a dangerous job, the idiot they tased apparently wasn't smart enough to know that fire is bad.
i honestly fail to see how they are remotely the same.

Originally posted by proteus33
people are not understanding the proper use of a tazer gun. it is meant to be used on armed suspects who are holding weapons like knives or bats. not recommended for use on people armed with fire arms. this man was armed with a water hose so unless he was that bald headed guy from the transporter i think that the cops a could have just shut off his pressure and b physically restrained him. also why would you electrically restrain someone standing in water would it have been funny if charge went through water and stunned man and dumb cops

i'm guessing they did try to restrain him and he resisted. the only outcome would be calling in more cops or tasering him.
maybe they were at "last resort"?