Nerve cells don't produce any more after about the Age of five(5).

this is wrong. it has been proven the brain adapts. an example of this are amputees. while the limb maybe be gone they can still feel it. how? there a part of the brain that senses feeling in every ppart of the body and these are divided into sections, when a limb such as a hand or even an arm is removed, that section of the brain isnt used anymore but it naturally wants and needs stimulation so it will link to a "neighboring" section for that stimulation it needs. such as if you lose your left arm that section of your brain might connect to the part that sense feelings in your face. in case this has been a documented case. when the patients face was touched in a certain area he could feel it in his arm/hand even though it was no longer there.

BTW the patient was an adult.

blow your 5 year old theory right out of the water.

the human body and mind are more adaptive than you want to think or give it credit for.

[edit on 22-6-2004 by ThePrankMonkey]

also i dont know what your problem is with santa claus and the easter bunny but as illmatic said and what you didnt "get" was htere are bigger things kids are being lied to about than santa claus and to use your time to tell a child santa isnt real is a waste of time in comparison to other things out children are taught.

maybe you couldnt get over knowing santa wasnt real, i dont know but compared to a lot of things, its pretty harmless for a kid to believe there's this fat jolly guy who goes aorund ocne a year giving things to people he doesnt know and doesnt expect anything in return. while the guy may not exist the concept of charity is very reall and he represents that.

maybe we should outlaw childrens books, they're full of imaginary charcters that arent real and we cant "lie" to our children can we? aesop fables should be eliminated, brothers grimm? gone!

i dont think its harmful for a child to believe in something that mnay not be real but represent somethign positive for a child to learn and adopt as part of their personality.

and it still comes down to a parents job. if they want their child to believe in santa let them. there are people who teach their kids jesus and god are real. while i'm not a fan of religion whats wrong with that? god and jesus can have a very positive influence on a childs life. where's the harm in that?

let kids be kids, let them believe in these things before they turn into someone like you.

I still feel you're missing one point here, ThePrankMonkey. While I agree with you regarding there being no harm in the appropriate use of Santa Claus & Tooth Fairy fiction for youngsters, I'm hoping that you will agree that when children question the reality of there, then they shouldn't be lied to.

As for religious teaching, my views on this subject probably won't be popular, but here goes anyway.....


In a perfect world, children would be exposed to as many different types of religions as possible, & the different values of each would be explained to them by appropriate teachers in each field. The idea of this would be to enable the child to appreciate each point of view - & then, when older, to make his/her own decision about which to follow.

most kids ( or at least me) were looking to see what they were getting for christamas in there moms closet at age 4

Originally posted by oddtodd
I think the fantasies imposed by our parents is a mute point .. Things like the easter bunny and Christmas (santa) were meant for our enjoyment , as well as to avoid the explaination of religion until we were mature enough to accept the facts ....

- Below is Relentless's message - don't know why it's showing as part of the quote - still new at this.

Huh? Why wouldn't you start exposing your children to religion at the get go, since if you believe in something it is probably the most important thing to pass on.

That being said, this is exactly the reason I would have a problem passing on these misconceptions (Santa Claus, etc.) to the kids. Cause you feed them this whole pile of fantasies, but they are probably being taught something about God along the way too, then one day - oh by the way - everything you can't really see or prove does happen to be fake, except oh wait - the God part is real, but you just have to take my word on this one. Seems a little risky to me.

I know people who say they have to give their kids this part of their childhood, but wait a minute - these are basically Christian holidays. Don't the kids who weren't raised celebrating these fantasies grow up okay, intelligent, with imaginations, etc? Fairy tales are plenty to develop an imagination, and you don't have to think they are real to get that out of it.

Anyway, I just don't see why you can't tell them the stories and do the traditions as more of a pretend game for their amusement and enjoyment without telling them it is real when it isn't.






[edit on 22-6-2004 by Relentless]

[edit on 22-6-2004 by Relentless]

its called "wrapping" the quote.

after the [-quote] (minus the -)

you have to add the [/-quote] part at the end of the quoted text. (again minus the -)

or check the link in my signature on using the quote feature.

Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey

there are people who teach their kids jesus and god are real. while i'm not a fan of religion whats wrong with that? god and jesus can have a very positive influence on a childs life. where's the harm in that?

let kids be kids, let them believe in these things before they turn into someone like you.

Oh, see there's my point (nothing personal PrankMonkey - LOL). But parents - if you want your kids to ultimately believe in God and Jesus, well, I just think the whole Santa Clause thing could be a little risky - ROTFL. In the end do you want them defending Santa Claus's attributes as about the same as God's? Geez, I just can't stop giggling here!!!

Oh, PrankMonkey, thanks for that tip, think I got it now

[edit on 22-6-2004 by Relentless]

I say we just let them watch porn and curse as mush as they want to when they turn 15 Kids are going to learn, its better to just tell them in a simple way they can understand, it sucks when they learn about lies and you never know how it can affect them.

Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey


this is wrong. it has been proven the brain adapts. an example of this are amputees. while the limb maybe be gone they can still feel it. how? there a part of the brain that senses feeling in every ppart of the body and these are divided into sections, when a limb such as a hand or even an arm is removed, that section of the brain isnt used anymore but it naturally wants and needs stimulation so it will link to a "neighboring" section for that stimulation it needs. such as if you lose your left arm that section of your brain might connect to the part that sense feelings in your face. in case this has been a documented case. when the patients face was touched in a certain area he could feel it in his arm/hand even though it was no longer there.

BTW the patient was an adult.

blow your 5 year old theory right out of the water.

the human body and mind are more adaptive than you want to think or give it credit for.

[edit on 22-6-2004 by ThePrankMonkey]

Wow you didn't show me. I said that nerve cells don't reproduce any more. When a part of the brain connects to another these are not new cells. These are existing cells that just shift. There is no new connection it is just an exisiting one that is rerouted.

Also I never said not to let the children have their imagination. I also never said to keep fairy tales away from them. Especially don't keep the paranormal away from them. I believe in all sorts of paranormal stuff. I'm just saying we shouldn't lie to them. When at the age of 4 they ask if Santa is real because he or she heard Santa's a fake we should sit them down and explain it to them. They deserve the truth. I hate it when parents get asked questions and they give some dumb answer. I especially hate this, "Why is the sky blue?" "God made it that way honey." Good cop out Mom and Dad.

Also things that you can explain such as child birth please don't tell your child that a stork is bringing a baby. Which yes most children won't think to look up in the sky to find the bird but still. It's just lying explain to the child that a baby will be coming out of their mother's vagina just like that did when they were a baby. You might have to explain it like that, but at least don't lie to them. Tell them a semi truth just don't lie. Tell them it's gonna come out of mommy. Don't bring the birds into it. that's just wrong for the birds.

Dident have a mother of father persay .( went through manny fosterhomes) HRS bites. But never the less I was told all the same stuff as most of you .Just from manny different people . Santa the bunny and how they (wich ever i was living with at the time) had to walk two miles to school through three feet of snow every day.
Well needless to say im scared for life now ( NOT)lol.
About the only good memmers from these times for me is the santa and bunny and the longgg walk through the snow.
I am now 39 marred with 6 wonderfull boys all my own and have a real family . As for all the other mential trash thous foster people gave me I left behind. But have keept the wonderful JOY of beliving in something bigger then life for my boys Including the two mile walk throw the snow ( live in florida now)lolol . Anyway the point is There children and should get a chance to be children as it is they have to grow up so fast in this moderen sociaty.
I say let them be kids as long as possible wile you have the chance .Wile quitly saying over and over dont drink do drugs and be marred befor having kids. Belive me in the long run this will do much more for them tthen worrying whether or not they belive in the bunny santa.

I agree with you, Simcity4Rushour, & with most of you here. But you're not really listening to me, are you, so I'll say it again.

Yes, by all means let children enjoy Santa & the Easter Bunny & the magical world of fairy tales. But when the child eventually sees through the fantasy, as I did at age 6, don't lie to him/her, don't insult their intelligence like that.

You're preaching to the converted.

Relentless , bowing out of this one , not a parent , and will let parents decide whats right for their own kids without imposing my views .

I had fun with all the fantasies ((Santa , Easter Bunny , And the Tooth Fairy ) , and would back up any parents lie if thats the way they were raising their kids . I envy the fact that The Tooth Fairy has been adjusting for inflation , my buddies sone had a profitable set of choppers !

Better to say that I wouldn't tell them the truth about the obvious fantasies , and would not discuss religion with them at all , that's TOTALY in a parents hands .

Did you see the South Park episode where Jesus challenges Santa to a fight for stealing all the glory on his birthday ?

Don't show the kids that one for sure !

best wishes parents , teach em' good ! odd

[edit on 24-6-2004 by oddtodd]

Anyway, I just don't see why you can't tell them the stories and do the traditions as more of a pretend game for their amusement and enjoyment without telling them it is real when it isn't.

Areed last post on this one for me .

I was lied to by my teacher. She said that Christopher Columbus whent around the world to prove the world was round and not flat. Everyone in that time KNEW that the world was round Columbus was trying to find the shortess way to the indies. The whole myth of him proving the world was round was caused by a book. I believed he was trying to prove it was round until recently thanks to Terry Jones Medieval Lives.

As for Santa my brother who is 11? Still believes in him. First you believe in Santa Claus, then you dont believe in Santa Claus, Then you are Santa Claus, then you look like santa claus.

Get real. Just ask yourself, "How was I harmed?" Almost every kid gets those stories and if these cause any long-term problems, we'd all be nuts by now.

Well, okay, so half the country is nuts anway, or they wouldn't be thinking about voting for Kerry. I withdraw my question.

www.onealclan.com

I never once said that there is any harm in letting them believe. You guys are all assuming what I meant about my post. I never said it would harm anyone. I never said not to allow children to have an imagination. I just think it's crap we lie to our children. Also it kills me how many parents get mad because when their children get to be teenagers they dont' tell them stuff and dont' trust their parents. Maybe it's because they found out that all the stuff their parents told them is a big lie.

I think it's wrong to lie to children about where their pet goes when it dies. I've heard many parents tell the little kids that "Fido went to the farm." When really he's in doggy heaven because Dad or Mom hit him with their car. Yes, it saves the childs feelings but at least then they will understand if say Grandma dies. Are they gonna tell their child that Grandma just went to the farm and won't be back. I think not.

Also One lie leads to another and before long the child's life is one big lie.

I always knew that Santa and the other fairy tales werent real, but my parents and I alwasy pretended we didnt know because it was more fun that way, and i see no harm in that.

They also taught me the facts of life at a fairly young age, but not before i asked.

However, there are some other things that my parents didnt tell me which did (and still do) bother me.(i'm trying to show this as an example that other parents shouldnt do, sorry if it turns into a rant)

First off, when i was probably about 10, i went to my grandparents house for a family reunion. My Uncle did not show up, and I asked my parents about it. They said he was on a business trip and couldnt make it.

Later that day, my grandmother commented about how it was so nice to have all the family together for once.

I interruppted, saying, "But Uncle Mike isnt here! The whole family isnt here if we dont have Uncle Mike". The room got really quiet. my aunt told me she had gotten divorced (im guessing some of you already guessed that)

Now, WHY didnt they tell me? they said it was because they didnt think i was ready to know about that. I say, if you dont feel your child is ready to know, then TELL THEM THAT! dont make up some lie.

I am sixteen now, and yes, I know that is an immature age, and that side of me shines through sometimes, but I'm also fairly mature for my age, and i think i am mature enough to know about the other bit of info my parents are keeping from me.

My aunt is a lesbian, and has been living with her current gf for a really long time now. I've know for about a year and a half now (no one in my family knows i know) and they still try to say the two of them are "really good friends". I havent told them i know in hopes that they will actually tell me out of their own idea to, so i havent confronted them on it

My question to other parents that would lie to their kids like that is "WHY??" why lie, cause the kid is going to find out and be mad at you for it, so you might as well tell them and save the trouble?

Children lose hope very easily, hence why good always wins.

Tell the truth.

Don't propagate Lies

[edit on 2004-7-4 by Teknik]