Lying to our children

Originally posted by oddtodd
KrazyIvan , who you responding to ?

the guy who started this thread, hombre!

what bothers me most about that Parenthood link is this:

She overheard the children talking, and heard them say "Mommy wouldnt lie to us, so it must be true", then didnt tell them the truth!

Those children are going to find out from another kid sooner or later, and it is going to ruin the trust that they had in their mommy. sure they will know that mommy loves them and all, but now mommy isnt perfect, mommy has lied to them.

I really dont see how she can do that. I am disgusted.

---pineapple

You have highlighted the most salient point in that Parenthood.com article, pineappleupsidedown, and you have done this well. My objection to the article's saccharine insult to the English language pales into insignificance by comparison.

It also highlights one of the reasons given by Teknik as to why parents lie, and I'll paraphrase it - because our parents lied to us. The tired old chestnuts from the "warm & fluffy" camp, such as "it does no harm" or "it's lovely for the children" do not address other issues - so let's look at these in a child-centred way -

Young children tend to see things in black & white
They generally have long memories
A lying answer to a DIRECT question creates confusion & loss of trust.

None of the above is in conflict with Santa, the Easter Bunny, or fairy tales.
When the child's old enough to ask, he/she is old enough to be given the answer in language appropriate to his/her understanding.

Originally posted by Bastet
...
Young children tend to see things in black & white
They generally have long memories
A lying answer to a DIRECT question creates confusion & loss of trust.

None of the above is in conflict with Santa, the Easter Bunny, or fairy tales.
When the child's old enough to ask, he/she is old enough to be given the answer in language appropriate to his/her understanding.

I feel the exact same way. If that child is old enough to ask a question about something they don't quite understand than I believe that child is old enough for the CORRECT answer. Not a lie. This will just confuse the child when they find out the real answer later in life. It's like telling a child a color is RED then they go to school and find out it's actually BLUE. You flat out lied and then they will find out and be totally confused. They may also get into a fight with another child over something. I've seen kids argue about whether or not SANTA is real or not. I don't think this is good for the child. Also that child that still believed would probably run home to mommy and be like "Mommy, Bob said Santa's not real. Is that true?" the parent will flat out lie and be like "Fred, honey, Bob is a liar. Santa is real." Then that child won't trust Bob any more. and Then go and tell bob he's a liar and then there is more conflict. I'm only 17 I still remember grade school and I can remember hearing people talk about these types of things and argue. This can't be good for the child socially or emotionaly. And then Fred later in life finds out the real liar was his Mommy.

If the child is old enough and mature enough to understand what they are asking about then they are mature enough to hear an answer. A Correct Answer!

Originally posted by HombreConUnPollo
If the child is old enough and mature enough to understand what they are asking about then they are mature enough to hear an answer. A Correct Answer!

See, this was exactly what I was talking about earlier. Say your 4 year old comes to you and asks, "What happens after you die?" You really don't know, you have a belief. You could go on about, "Some people believe this, some people believe that and some people believe the other." You kids head is going to be swimming. Try explaining reincarnation to a 4 year old. And who says we aren't reincarnated? We really don't know.

Originally posted by intrepid

...You really don't know, you have a belief. You could go on about, "Some people believe this, some people believe that and some people believe the other." ....

No but you could present what you believe, and then tell the child that there are many beliefs out there. At least give them an idea. Present what the parents believe and the parents want to believe and then tell the child but there are many belifs out there and you will learn about them as you go through life. Simple as that just don't lie. or make up a BS answer.

I have said all along that you should never lie to your kids, lying is wrong under any circumstance. Anyways, to get back on topic, what we did with the Santa thing was tell our kids the he WAS a real person, we do these things at Christmas in his spirit. And yes they asked what spirit was, that's another ball of wax.

Originally posted by intrepid
... Anyways, to get back on topic, what we did with the Santa thing was tell our kids the he WAS a real person, we do these things at Christmas in his spirit. ...

That in itself goes against what some poeple teach their children. Christmas is a day to celebrate the birth of Jesus. But now it's all about presents and Santa. Although I don't believe in the Bible as much as most people or at all sometimes. I still think we should go back to what Christmas is supposed to be about.

Really we just need to Educate our children about all that we can. We have so many contradictions when it comes to children. We tell them one thing then they come to find out it's something totally different. This just doesn't seem right to me.

You're talking about the commercialization of Christmas. Santa, Kriss Kringle, was a real person the distributed gifts at Christmas, not for gain. I am not sure of the origin, either Scandanavian or German, but he was the embodiment of Christmas.

I am christian, and I believe in Kris Kringle (the person in germany or whereever)

I think if a child comes to you with a question that is so hard to answer many adults dont know the answer to it, you should tell the child that. for example:

Child: Mommy, what happens after we die?
Mom: Well, some people think(insert "Mom's" belief here-simple words of course), but a lot of ppl dont really know. You can decide for yourself when you are older.

That way, if they dont fully understand, they can stick with the "you'll decide when you are older" part, and sure enough, when they are older, you can explain everything in better detail.

---pineapple

[edit on 27-6-2004 by pineappleupsidedown]

I completely understand that all parents lie to "protect" their children, but certain lies just aren't right. We should prepare children for the real world. Maybe society would be a better place if we taught our children better in all aspects of their lives.

Save the children....that's right save them don't lie...

I think lying about Santa is a good idea to a certain age. Its good mental exercise for your child to question this and discover the truth for themselves. It keeps society from being easy to control. But if you kid takes till seventh grade then you better tell all. One of my friends is screwed when he has kids cause I think he still believes in Santa. I just don't have the heart to tell him. BTW hes not exactly a little kid. But by fifth to seventh grade you just cant lie at all. Yes you even need to talk about sex in a serious manner.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
I think lying about Santa is a good idea to a certain age. Its good mental exercise for your child to question this and discover the truth for themselves. It keeps society from being easy to control.

Now that's as good a reason for Santa as I've ever heard. And for this, I'd be willing to reduce "lie" to "fib". I don't think that makes me a turncoat either - fust one who's prepared to listen to reason.

There are enough Lies existing already
We need not be their agent.

[edit on 2004-7-4 by Teknik]

Think about all those parents out there that are wondering why their teenage son or daugther doesn't trust them enough to tell them where they, are what they are doing, etc.. Maybe it's because the found out that Mommy and Daddy lied to them for 5 or 6 years. In some cases it may be a lot more.

Lying about certain things also causes conflict between siblings. I have an older brother. When I was younger he would tell me certain things my parents were telling me were lies. I didn't beleive him and we would fight about it. Sometimes these fights became physical.
So there is no one out there that can say lying is good for our children...

Originally posted by HombreConUnPollo
Think about all those parents out there that are wondering why their teenage son or daugther doesn't trust them enough to tell them where they, are what they are doing, etc.. Maybe it's because the found out that Mommy and Daddy lied to them for 5 or 6 years. In some cases it may be a lot more.

That is very true. Parents still(sometimes) lie to their kids once they are teenagers by saying "you can tell us anything that is going on in your life...its a safe place" That is completely a lie!(at least in my case).

I spent a weekend with my dad(father-daughter thing) and he almost got me softened up enough to tell him some of the things i had been up to that i was keeping from him. I stopped myself, but not soon enough because he quickly started to guess that i was doing witchcraft(not close to the truth at all! my only secret was that i had a bf at the time) and him giving me lectures and such. Thanks Dad.

This is first-hand why kids dont tell parents whats up in their lives. But im sure you all knew that already.

---pineapple

Kids won't tell parents what's going on because Parents honestly are not open minded. Parents will say oh I love you no matter what. LIARS! all of them. Even if the parents have done the same thing at that age they will still yell and rant and rave. Hell my parents I know did drugs and had sex. My mom had my brother at 16. But i know if they found out I was doing that they would go off the deep end. This isn't right either. This is almost like lying to the teenagers. The lies just keep going even after the kid is older.

The lies need to stop....

I find that just by looking at people I know I found out that people whos parents lied to them and didn't trust them to think tend to be more close minded. Thats not official but its just my observation.

I never asked my parents any questions like "what happens when you die?" or "how are babies born?" or, for that matter, any real deep questions, but i still have my very unique, personal views. my parents never lied to me, except of course, about the easter b unny and santa claus, which i figured out by myself and suspected all along.

but then again, they never talked to me about any of these things either. i never had parents who really talked about issues. but they didnt lie either.

I have to live about 70 years of my life worrying about cancer, murder, andwhether I'll have a job tomorrow. Let me have a few where a kindly old elf makes presents just for me.