Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps


It's deeper than that. Hamas wants all of Israel and the Jews gone entirely. It's in their Charter in fact. Hamas is in control of the Palestinians.

I had a Palestinian as an employee in about 1995. He told me he would never go back because they are all crazy. I have not seen him since 2000. He went to Jordan once a year and sneaks over the border to see family. He told me he has to hide the fact he is Palestinian when he goes because the Jordanians and the other Muslim Nations don't want them around because of all the trouble they bring with them.

The innocent Palestinians are in a real bog. Their insane leaders have made them unwelcome in any country and turned them into targets in their own. No winners here any way you slice it.

As long as Hamas and those like them are around this will never end, no matter who does what. They have the myopic goal of killing ALL of the Jews in Israel. How do you negotiate with that?

Hamas can't be controled as long as Iran keeps funding Terrorists. You know those innocent little lambs under Imadinnerjacket I feel for the people of Iran as well. They seem to be decent enlightened people under the tyranny that always comes with Theocracies passing themselves off as being Democratic.

The Palestinian children don't have a chance. Many I'm sure are brainwashed from birth and trained to hate and kill all Jews. A 13 year old on a Jihad is just as dangerous as any other radical. Maybe more so. It's entirely possible that girl was sent to be shot on purpose. The Israeli children grow up learning to hate while seeing rockets land around them and civilians being slaughtered by Hamas and other radical Palestinians.

Until people face the fact that both sides share the blame, no progress will ever be made. Look at the posts here. This is not a Football Game where you choose a Team to back; it's a case where the whole thing and both sides are wrong.

I never see anyone point out the fact that the real solution is for them to simply stop fighting and share the land together with respect for each other. Everything else is just the Human Dark-side rearing its often seen ugly head. Anyone against simply laying down arms is the problem; none are innocent.

reply to post by illusive man


You seem to want to twist my moderate and reasonable words? Take a step back for a moment and tell me how Hamas plays no part in any of this. When that girl was shot it was a culmination of many events. That security zone exists because it is needed. In a huge way it exists because of Hamas. To even pretend they share no blame is to disingenuous to even consider as being reasonable. Actions cause reactions.

That soldier who did the shooting is also the result of many actions by many people. He is a creation of the lunatics on both sides.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
*snip*
This is the only cost effetive way to prevent this. Security kill zones, and pouring hot lead into ANYTHING you might think could explode. Given the circumstances the isrealies are really just responding to the tactics used against them.

O'rly? Enlighten me how many IDF soldiers or Israeli civillians have been killed by someone who is NOT carrying anything and is MOVING AWAY from the soldiers? I claim 0.

reply to post by Blaine91555


security zones? these are mostly right next to populated palestinian areas
considering the size of the place i wouldnt be supprised if the outside of this girls home was a security zone set up by the israelis

try not to take offence to this as i am not trying to twist your *moderate* words

lets look at the US army for a minute, the US personale which raped and killed an entire family of a little girl, was it the fault of the commander that the lunatic did that, is there any command in the US armed forces which says one has to rape and kill the family of an ocupied country?

he said he was taking revenage for an IED attack on his convoy.

at the end of the DAY its the person that is pulling the trigger and his menatality, this fool also said so clearly that anyone in that area should be shot danger or not.

you can keep trying to defend this moron by blaming his commanders,

Five pages, and no one wants to tackle the "Druze" thing?

What's a Druze?

In this case, when we find out, we may learn a whole lot about what happened, and why.

The Druze sect is yet another off-shoot of Islam...

What!!?? They're fighting FOR the Israelis, against fellow Muslims??
YES. Sort of. This is a bit long, but if you get to the end, there should be some new light on this.

(I'm going to couch what I say here with the admission that I am not any part of any of the involved groups myself, so perhaps an Israeli will come along, and point out my errors. or even a Druze. That's OK, but here's my take, based on what I have learned about some of these odd Islamic-related groups, though my study of a different related group.)

The Druze are basically Muslim "outcasts", who are hated by "real" Muslims, and as usual, hate is mostly mutual.

Why they are outcasts has something to do with their heterodox beliefs of course, but perhaps the better reason has to do with their history in the region.

Interestingly, they have been considered in much the same way that JEWS were considered, as a minority amongst the Christian majority.

The Druze are more successful than the average Muslim. Historically, they have enjoyed political power, all out of proportion to their numbers. Muslims (and even the local Maronite Christians) do not trust them. They prefer to keep to themselves.

Don't they sound a bit familiar?

Anyway, one of their other strengths as a people is their reputation for being an able military force, if needed. They were the only Middle Eastern people that pushed out the French, by themselves (no help from the Brits).

As the birth of a nation approached, the future Israel was finding an ally in these outsiders (mostly found in Syria and Lebanon).

Why such an unlikely alliance occurred probably had more to do with the Druze desire to strategically position themselves, against a potentially lethal Syria, than any real affinity to Jews.

Of course the Druze fit right in to the IDF. Their history, traditions, made them a good military career fit.

But it was the odd match, for sure. As time went on, the increasingly powerful state of Israel was feeling it's oats. The Druze were predictably getting a bit less than "equal" treatment from their fellow (Jewish) Israelis. Not to get in to it, but by the early 1980's, the situation in Gaza began to see the Druze pulling back, feeling resentful.

If you actually read this story, you will see some of what I'm saying. Notice how the Captain was feeling "less-than", not only due to Jewish officers above him, but even due to the Jews who were "under" him in rank, who had created the climate that this Druze IDF officer found himself in.

From what I understand, the Druze are in fact looked down upon by Israelis in general today, although perhaps it was not always so. Nevertheless, they are being marginalized today, and there are bound to be hard feelings.

One Jewish friend who has spent time in Israel seemed to have the impression that the Druze were a bit "sniveling", too much hoping to impress the majority Jews all around them, perhaps always trying "too hard" to show that they too are loyal/patriotic, etc. Yes, they may be laughed at behind their backs, but maybe this weird "complex" many seem to have, has something to do with what happened.

Was this Druze trying to "impress" his superiors, or even more pathetically, even the Jews reporting to him?

Is it possible that this girl was not just the victim of someone without a conscience, but almost something even worse?

This guy is in the middle of a horrible, sick cultural dynamic. He is the "minority", he is stuck in a violent career (one of only a few open to the Druze by the way, in Israel) that almost insists that he prove himself.

I have to wonder if this is actually a more "common" situation, likely well-known by these groups themselves, that Druze are more likely to "get crazy", in their pathetic attempts to one day "prove" themselves to the master.

Here's my thoughts on the Captain's "tears" when he heard the verdict: Yes, they were tears of relief, but not just relief that he was not convicted, but tears of joy that he had not been betrayed by Israel, when he had been EXPECTING to get thrown in front of the bus the whole time.

It was as if he had spent a lifetime licking his master's boots, he danced when Master said "Dance!", and finally, when something bad happened, Master was going to laugh, and send him to the pillar for a severe thrashing. After all his loyalty. After humiliating himself a hundred times.

This is some real sick psychology, and I admit, it is my own speculation, based on the few cultural nuances I'm aware of for this group, but I think it could just explain a whole lot.

And after all this "context", still a young girl is dead, and "justice" sure seems like just more politics.

Last thing. Perhaps this verdict was finally a bone thrown to the Druze. If he had been convicted, the IDF would have a problem with the MANY Druze who have chosen the IDF as a career. Maybe it was time for the Druze to feel like the nation they fight for, actually has their back for a change.

Yet another innocent victim, another offering upon the vile Altar of Politics and expediency.

JR

reply to post by illusive man


I'm not defending that soldier. I'm not defending the Zionist zealots, Hamas or the Terrorists among the Palestinian People either. If I took sides I'd be as bad as they are. You can't justify any of their actions without being a bit nuts.

I said what I believed earlier on. The only solution is for both sides to lay down their arms and live together. Hamas will never do that and perhaps the radicals in the Israeli Government will never allow it either. These meaningless, never ending arguments over who bears what guilt is just an extension of the lunacy that caused this to begin with.

There are no innocent parties in this feud, just crazy people doing what radicals do. You can't separate Hamas or their benefactor Iran from guilt either. Not and be honest. Sadly there are lots of unreasonable liars in this world who can not face the truth.

Hamas for instance admitted to that slaughter that was discussed yesterday and yet people defend them! Its like some peoples synapses are firing in the wrong order. Logic is beyond their capability and simple truths to complex for them to consider. Sometimes in this world, both sides are wrong. Defending either is an act of insanity or in some cases simple bigotry and hate.

I only pray that someday peoples brains will start to function normally and they will all wake up to the fact, to end it, you simply lay down your arms and shake hands and maybe have drink together. Everything else is hate and evil people controlling the sane among us.

The Palestinians and Hamas say, yeah but look what the Jews did. Israel says yeah but look what Hamas and the Palestinians did. It's a never ending game of ping pong and it terrifies me how some people play along like it is normal or rational. I'm beginning to believe that sanity is not normal and insanity is the norm. What a sad state of affairs.

Whether you like it or not, what happened to that girl was the result of all of the evil acts that preceded it, done by both sides. That soldier was a product of those same things. Truth is always simple, recognizing it and admitting it is very hard it seems.

reply to post by JR MacBeth


Thank you for that wonderful informative post. I'll definitely be looking for info on that.

Funny thing about technology. I bet that the govt has hidden technology that instead of a bomb that kills people it paralyzes people temporarily. Now that would be very useful if it exists, but i doubt theyll use it as the powers that be want people to kill each other.

If there is a reason why Hitler threw the israelites to the oven, this articles explains it pure and simple, these kind of acts couldn't be more deserving of the punishment Hitler layed down to them.

I wonder WTF is going on at the Washington Peace Talks? You think Obama can manage to pop some beers and have them sit down and talk it out?

So Far I have only seen Obama on camera with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. I have yet to see Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on camera with Obama yet alone all three of them together.

reply to post by Blaine91555


on the Iran part, and this is getting old Hamas, hezbullah arent considerd terrorists by all nations just Israel, US and its allies so lets keep the terrorist crap out of this,

dont forget if Israel wasnt an ally of the US or owned by the country the chances are the US would be the ones arming them or supporting them politicaly,

on the other topic no one is defending the murders of the innocent israelis
infact i have comented on that topic and have voiced against it aswell as others.

on the issue of look what the jews did (your the one who started using term Jews to refer to israelis) israel have always maintained they will attack hamas
even during ceasefires, so when one side can openly attack and expects no retaliation of any kind of course your going to get hostilities.

if this young girl was jewish and a palestinian emptied an entire magazine into her, how much do you want to bet an Israeli F-16 would be sent in to flatten couple of houses?

also again i see people trying to justify this murder by deflecting on the crimes of others, that does not JUSTIFY THIS


also on the evil acts


ok, so 9/11 is the fault of the people that died on that day aswell as osama bin ladin as he organised the attack due to the US support of israel and US presence in the middle east? (that statment is correct right?) blame the victims aswell due to the negilgence of their goverments?

same on madrid bombings and so forth, all these terrorist attacks were done for a reason and due to the actions that passed, are these now justified as the people doing them are like this israeli solider warped by hate and so forth and should be cleared of any wrong doing because its the enviroment that they are in?


at the end of the DAY you cant justify his crimes by blaming the actions of others as you are just asking to open a can of worms

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
Another example of the most moral army in the world at work.

Actually, just another example of the great pro-Palestinian propaganda that gets created when a people decide it's okay to use their children as weapons delivery systems.

In fact, this thread's OP is a perfect example of why it pays these barbarians to murder their own children in this fashion.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


cool, does it mean these israeli girls are also ok to shoot since they are clearly signing bombs
Lin k to pic

[edit on 1-9-2010 by illusive man]

Before condemning anyone, you should spend some lengthy time in a free-fire zone... and leave western mentality back in primary school. In Africa, six year old boys that can hardly carry an AK-47 are killers. Religious "leaders" incite violence of all sorts against all who don't share their views, then claim God told them it was necessary. Your comfortable, sheltered, Happy Meal lives are what is phony. In the third world is where reality is.

Originally posted by star child
reply to post by cdesignmaster

 

What a stupid remark to make. Remove all the mosques. The lsraelies are doing a good job on that right now. The only time there will ever be peace in the middle east is if some really good alien race whisked all the lsraelies off to the other side of the universe, that way the US would no longer be under the control of lsrael and the world would start to know peace. The people that condone these unholy acts have no souls, there is just a large black hole where no self respecting soul would ever want to occupy.

You're a Muslim. You are a follower of a known Pedophile. You're obviously not very bright. You blame everything on the Jews.

I have proposed many times that the world should round up all the Jews and place them on an uninhabitated island without contact with the rest of the world. Once that is done, we will all get to see the misery of the Muslims and their blame game shift to someone else, but they'll never come to the understanding that it's their own fault for their misery and it's not the Jews fault.

There are members of ALL faiths that do cruel things to other faiths, but you don't recognize the faults of your own faith and thus blame everything on the Jews. Your kind are just sick people.

Of course, where I wish peace and prosperity for you, your religion wishes death to me. What a sick religion.

Keep following your child raper.

Originally posted by bartholomeo
If there is a reason why Hitler threw the israelites to the oven, this articles explains it pure and simple, these kind of acts couldn't be more deserving of the punishment Hitler layed down to them.

Well...hmmm...at least you are not a Holocaust denier. I'll give you credit for that.

reply to post by gravitational


"Have you read the trial transcripts, or all you do is based on news reports to get all the facts?. you obviously went through a lot of digging to find yet another story against Zionists"
Grav, you continue to defend the indefenseable! OK, Here are the facts.

FACT: A little girl was killed running out of an exclusion zone. (Wouldn't matter to me what her religion or ethnic makeup was)

FACT: The Israeli Druze (His religion should not matter) commander shot her 17 times in the back and then twice in the head to confirm the kill.

FACT: The Captian was told she was just a frieghtened little girl and was leaving the zone after dropping her backpack. The Captian killed her anyway.

FACT: The Captian acted within established IDF policy (which is why the Capt maintained his innocence).

FACT: The Captian was never charged with murder but with two lessor offences of which he was found not guilty.

FACT: The Captian was promoted and awarded 80000 shekels (around $20000)

THat enough facts for you? IF this had been a Palestinian soldier killing a Druze child who not only got off scott free but was rewarded I would have still posted it.

reply to post by gravitational


"How surprising ...NOT
As we speak, 2 Israelis injured in 2nd West Bank shooting attack.
One victims in critical condition "

That is deplorable! Why don't you create a thread on it as it seems a good topic for discussion?

reply to post by gem_man


How all these "facts" are facts, when the only source for "facts" come from a newspaper report and a palastinien doctor? I do hope for your case, it's not Dr' Mad Gilbert.

It doesn't really matters to you I'm sure, with or without context. The facts are facts, as long as they coincide with your hatred dogma.

In fact, I'm pretty sure you are already searching the web for yet another evil deed by those murderous Zionists, just to get more applause from your blood thirsty crowd on ATS.

reply to post by gem_man


Obviously the soldier is unfit for duty. He must be an extreemly bad
shot to use an Entire Rifle Magazine. Not even a reprehand for wasting
so many Bullets.

I'm sure the same thing would happen if the roles were reversed, not guilty.
Maybe not, there not allowed to have any weapons, just rocks.