Riot police tackle missiles at English Defence League protest in Bradford

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by solidshot

Originally posted by neformore

Edit to add - by the way - the youtube page you linked to shows the EDL with "infidel" T-Shirts on unfurling the Israeli flag in Bradford Urban Gardens - something Solidshot says would not have happened.

Where did i say it didn't happen? i said where was it proven that it was a genuine EDL member? as they had been infiltrated on several occasions by other groups intent on causing trouble and blaming them.

Ok so I suppose this indicates that they were genuine and are actually racist nazi's, I didn't need your proof as I say I know the ilk of the edl scummers.

What part of the above bolded text are you incapable of understanding? on several occasions in the past they have caught members of the UAF and C18 amongst others trying to incite trouble and pinning the blame on them...

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly

Originally posted by Thepreye

There is a clear cut good guy and bad guy situation here if the two sides being compared are the UAF lot and on the other side we have the edl, it is going to be the UAF who are the good guys and yet again the poor nazi's are the bad guys, it sorta goes with being a nazi, even when it's considered nazi lite.

Well yeah, if you put it like that. But that isnt the case. The good guys were the ones who either went about their business (this relates to the incident in Bradford) or organised/attended the mini festival in infirmary fields (situated right across the opposite side of the city to the demo) and to some extent the counter protest organised by We are Bradford and attended by some of the UAF, although that one was a bit provocative.

The Bad guys are the EDL, the MDL and UAF who all had members travelled into the city centre and actively organised themselves into groups looking for trouble.

Sorry to disagree with your well reasoned and ultimately worthy argument, but I actually believe that if you don't confront fascism physically when it's in the bunch of jerks making a noise phase they metamorphose into an organised power block that can't be confronted without great cost and sacrifice.

The intentions of the 2/3 sides to the confrontation denotes their "goodness" rather than the methods used, there is no intellectual parity or moral equivalence to the dispute.

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by Parallex

 

UAF are and never were noble, they are a paid for mob...point them in a direction and then release them like rabid dogs. I dont like the EDL either but i dislike this notion that UAF are any better when they are not.

The UAF receive money from most of the major parties, there has been some claims they also receive cash from the taxpayer. They are also reputed to be linked to socialist worker.

Originally posted by solidshot

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by Parallex

 

UAF are and never were noble, they are a paid for mob...point them in a direction and then release them like rabid dogs. I dont like the EDL either but i dislike this notion that UAF are any better when they are not.

The UAF receive money from most of the major parties, there has been some claims they also receive cash from the taxpayer. They are also reputed to be linked to socialist worker.

While the poor nazi's have to fund themselves out of their minimum wage or job seekers allowance, to try and cut their costs perhaps they could be given a smart uniform to wear at marches and parades, it would be a good way of denoting actual members rather than secret agents of the elite infiltrating their ranks.

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly

Originally posted by Thepreye

There is a clear cut good guy and bad guy situation here if the two sides being compared are the UAF lot and on the other side we have the edl, it is going to be the UAF who are the good guys and yet again the poor nazi's are the bad guys, it sorta goes with being a nazi, even when it's considered nazi lite.

Well yeah, if you put it like that. But that isnt the case. The good guys were the ones who either went about their business (this relates to the incident in Bradford) or organised/attended the mini festival in infirmary fields (situated right across the opposite side of the city to the demo) and to some extent the counter protest organised by We are Bradford and attended by some of the UAF, although that one was a bit provocative.

The Bad guys are the EDL, the MDL and UAF who all had members travelled into the city centre and actively organised themselves into groups looking for trouble.

Sorry to disagree with your well reasoned and ultimately worthy argument, but I actually believe that if you don't confront fascism physically when it's in the bunch of jerks making a noise phase they metamorphose into an organised power block that can't be confronted without great cost and sacrifice.

The intentions of the 2/3 sides to the confrontation denotes their "goodness" rather than the methods used, there is no intellectual parity or moral equivalence to the dispute.

I agree that you have to confront extremism where it negatively effects the lives of others. But that is the job of the law and government, otherwise we have lawless yobs (as in this case).

The EDL would probably say that they have to confront, what they see as radical islam or immigration, head on. So we cant use the rational that, just because in our opinion there are groups 'out there' that threaten our way of life that it is ok to confront them physically. That road leads to anarchy.

Originally posted by solidshot
They are also reputed to be linked to socialist worker.

There was a lot of 'socialist worker' activity at the counter demonstration (the one organised by We are Bradford and attended by some members of the UAF) I dont know much about the socialist worker link, what have you heard ?

reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly


The thing about opinions is that some are right, perhaps even based upon evidence, and some are wrong, perhaps even based upon wrongly interpreted evidence, on that virtue we don't have to treat both sides equally as if they had some equivalence to their arguments.

temporary public order is not the be all and end all of life, sides have to be taken, obviously not by those employed to police the events, but certainly by society at large or even those trying to push society in the right direction.

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly

Originally posted by solidshot
They are also reputed to be linked to socialist worker.

There was a lot of 'socialist worker' activity at the counter demonstration (the one organised by We are Bradford and attended by some members of the UAF) I dont know much about the socialist worker link, what have you heard ?

Whats wrong with being associated with the "Socialist worker", hardly a sinister movement. The Socialist Workers party are always at demonstrations, whether it be free Palestine or the G20 Protests.

reply to post by Thepreye


I'm not saying it's wrong to take sides, just questioning the 'physical confrontation' part of your post. The police and army are specially trained in using force to deal with situations, the public, as a general rule, are not and they would be breaking the law if they tried.

The incident in Bradford showed that the police are more than capable with dealing with extremists and (sorry for bringing this up again) from my experiences their job was made harder by opposing sides (the UAF in the front line crowds, MDL etc)

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly
reply to post by Thepreye

 

police are more than capable with dealing with extremists and (sorry for bringing this up again) from my experiences their job was made harder by opposing sides (the UAF in the front line crowds, MDL etc)

Well the cops aren't conscripts, so in the kindest sense, tough. If nazi's aren't confronted physically they will attract more followers and gain political power, I'm against this all the way and prepared to see young radical socialist extremists kick their nazi heads in and breach public order to do so, let them be arrested,charged, convicted and imprisoned and wear that badge with pride.

You work for the man and he might just want UK politics moved radically to the right by a wholesale acceptance of nazi ideals by treating them as equals and allowing them to attract loads of morons to their cause, how many Germans wished in 1945 they hadn't waved and cheered those proud smart young nazi's in the 30's.

A police state is always crap to live in because cops are as biased and corrupt as the rest of us, see central America for death squads and extra judicial murders are the only result of a police state.

Martin Smith -UAF Chairman of the Socialist Workers Party
www.socialistworker.co.uk...
“Leading anti-fascist campaigner Martin Smith is to appear in court on Tuesday 7 September. He is charged with assaulting a police officer during the demonstration against BNP leader Nick Griffin’s appearance on the BBC’s Question Time last year—charges Martin strongly denies.”

Originally posted by solidshot

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by Parallex

 

UAF are and never were noble, they are a paid for mob...point them in a direction and then release them like rabid dogs. I dont like the EDL either but i dislike this notion that UAF are any better when they are not.

The UAF receive money from most of the major parties, there has been some claims they also receive cash from the taxpayer. They are also reputed to be linked to socialist worker.

I'D really like to see a bit of back up for these claims. "Most of the major parties"? Ok, which one out of the three is not providing them with funds? Tax payers money? How does that work then?

[edit on 30/8/10, by Fang]

Wellnow we are finally getting to the meat of the issue. Those who support fascists and those who do not. I do not support fascism nor racism.

Look at all of the SWP members here!!

uaf.org.uk...

Lnock yourself out

Originally posted by solidshot

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by Parallex

 

UAF are and never were noble, they are a paid for mob...point them in a direction and then release them like rabid dogs. I dont like the EDL either but i dislike this notion that UAF are any better when they are not.

The UAF receive money from most of the major parties, there has been some claims they also receive cash from the taxpayer. They are also reputed to be linked to socialist worker.

Whilst I disagree with the UAF being taxpayer funded, what's wrong with the main parties supporting a group that fights fascism?

It's a worthy and noble cause to stop the EDL scum in their tracks.... you can't deny this - they are FASCISTS, and need to be put down before they become anything more than annoying.

Parallex.

Shouldn't we be more concerned with the elements that have attached themselves to the EDL, like the BNP and football hooligan firms like C18, than making a big deal of the socialist workers party

Originally posted by solidshot
The video i saw showed someone holding an Israeli flag, i haven't seen anyone giving a Nazi salute, no one i have spoken to has seen any evidence that this happened and without any evidence that it did what are people supposed to do?

I'm telling you it did, because I saw it happen.

Sorry I cannot honestly believe a country that gave the world the following:

Greatest scientififc minds;

Gave the world the Privy council law system;

Defeats the forces of Fascism in a world war:

Actively led to the end of slavery;

Made some of the cineastes best films;

Gave the world the great rock acts;

Seems to have had the a vibrant literary tradition since (well) forever.

Punches above its weight in humanitarian aid;

Endorsed full emancipation of women.

To name a few things -
will become a fundamentalist Islamic state because of a handful of fundamentalist (i.e. ignorant) Religious zealots?????

Sorry EDL and Its supporters have another agenda of racist intimidation, streetfighting and far right politics. UAF called a counter Demonstration. Who called the demonstration first?

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by solidshot
The video i saw showed someone holding an Israeli flag, i haven't seen anyone giving a Nazi salute, no one i have spoken to has seen any evidence that this happened and without any evidence that it did what are people supposed to do?

I'm telling you it did, because I saw it happen.

Sorry but nobody else i have spoken to did see this so until there is evidence how can action be taken? However a UAF member has been charged with doing this in the past

Link

If the edl supporter had done this why wasn't he charged? do you really think that plod would be in any way lenient to an edl member?

That is right> One UAF person gave a Nazi solute and was charged. One EDL person may have flashed an Israeli flag. Oh the trivia of it all. I here that there were even some untied shoeslaces and a gnat may have bitten someone! Oh the trivia of a waste of memory!

reply to post by solidshot


Solidshot.

I'm telling you it happened.

The banner is shown on the video Wobbly anomaly linked to, and I saw it happen.