The US Government Kills Americans - And You Love It, page 3

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reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 10:55 PM by mnemeth1

reply to post by DOADOA

I know, the WWII one is a tough one to justify, but trust me in the fact that if you truly look at where America would be as a nation if we followed the mandate of not involving ourselves in other peoples business, a Nazi state would not be a problem for us to deal with.

Again - I am looking at this strictly from a selfish viewpoint.

I am not concerned with anyone else except Americans.

Given that we would be infinitely richer as a nation today if we had not involved ourselves in WWII, we could completely handle any threat a super-Nazi Germany would pose today.

Remember that we have 65 million gun owners in America right now. It is utterly impossible for any country to invade us and stand any chance of success.

Let us also remember that it is incredibly difficult for a country to attack a primary trade partner. So if we were engaged in trade with Germany, they would be very very unlikely to attack us and invade us.

They would stand to gain very little, while loosing a lot.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 11:11 PM by TheWrongStuff

reply to post by DOADOA

I actually think that America's insane deployment of the ROE during NK and Vietnam is what allowed for the war to prolong and the ridiculous number of casualties. The same can be said for Iraq and Afghanistan. I do not condone war or murder but what is, is; and here we are. Do we cry foul and point the finger; waiting for some fictitious savior to mediate the issue in our favor? Or do we rise as a people; the beacon of light that was the American dream, and do our part? Or do we fall to childish bickering as the ruling houses of..really every freakin country stupid enough to broadcast the bottom feeding monkeys that they let run their country for some unfathomable reason...do.

Can you say run on sentence? Seriously, I had to stop and take a breath typing that.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 11:44 PM by black cat

Originally posted by DOADOA

Originally posted by Starbug3MY
Please have some respect for our veterans since they are the ones who put their lives on the line for whatever reason they think best.

I for one am extremely grateful for their Service.

yes, we all have respect for them. they were brave men and women who thought they were fighting for their country. unfortunately they died for a lie, they died for the wrong reason.

I served in Desert Storm. When did you serve? I knew full well I would see military action when I enlisted. It doesn't matter why we fight and die because we do so willingly. We enlist to serve our country and defend our nation's constitution and that means defending the rights of people like you who think they know what being military is all about. Even if we served and died in the most pointless excercise ever conceived we still serve our country with honor.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 11:44 PM by LoneGunMan

reply to post by jerico65

Why bring up other creepy leaders? We are talking about the nation we live in and the government you worship. This needs to be dragged into the light and looked at over and over until we change our government into OUR government.

Did you forget what you were taught in school? It is OUR job as US citizens to keep the gov. in check.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 11:49 PM by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by black cat
I knew full well I would see military action when I enlisted.

You knew you were going to kill people and you enlisted anyway? There is no honor in killing any of your fellow men women and children.

It was done out of greed and power. Killing people is never an honor. It is a disgrace.

I get so tired of these people that go off killing people with my tax dollars and think it was an honor.

Wake up dude you were used.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 11:57 PM by TheWrongStuff

reply to post by LoneGunMan

Ummm, hello, soldier..?..job?

Reality isn’t altruistic, romantic or idealistic; it just is. Perhaps you can propose a more acceptable world solution that will make everyone everywhere happy for all time?

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 11:57 PM by mnemeth1

reply to post by black cat

Just to add to that.

One of the things about the Civil War that most people don't know, is that the West Point military academy taught its students history out of a text book that upheld the right of states to secede from the union.

Prior to the Civil War, it was well understood that states had a right to leave the union if they felt their rights were being infringed upon.

It was for this reason alone that Stonewall Jackson and Lee joined the Confederate forces - both of whom were against slavery. Unlike Grant, who held slaves himself and didn't free his slaves until AFTER the civil war had been fought.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:01 AM by TarzanBeta

Originally posted by black cat

Originally posted by DOADOA

Originally posted by Starbug3MY
Please have some respect for our veterans since they are the ones who put their lives on the line for whatever reason they think best.

I for one am extremely grateful for their Service.

yes, we all have respect for them. they were brave men and women who thought they were fighting for their country. unfortunately they died for a lie, they died for the wrong reason.

I served in Desert Storm. When did you serve? I knew full well I would see military action when I enlisted. It doesn't matter why we fight and die because we do so willingly. We enlist to serve our country and defend our nation's constitution and that means defending the rights of people like you who think they know what being military is all about. Even if we served and died in the most pointless excercise ever conceived we still serve our country with honor.

Hey, thanks for putting yourself in danger so that the District didn't draft those of us who couldn't handle that job. I do appreciate your work, thank you.

However, if you swore an oath to protect the Constitution for the United States against threats foreign and domestic, then why would you allow the nation's leaders to constantly rip it to pieces? They may be the ones who wrote your paychecks, but the PEOPLE give them the money for them to write the paychecks. And the people are the ones you are supposed to serve - not the politicians. They are supposed to be working with you - you are not supposed to be working under them... Yes, they give you orders, but that is their function - it does not make them above you that their job description is to be the legislators and for you to be the executor.

IF the executor has sworn an oath to protect the Constitution for the United States, then checks and balances should be taking place and the executor needs to order those who are mutiliating the Constitution to get back in line or get out.

Yes, your boss is the President. But the People are the boss of the President. When the People say, "Do this!" The proper response from any of the branches should be,"Aye sir!" or "Yes sir!".

But you know this is not how it works because you take an oath to defend the Constitution OF the United States of America, which is the Constitution of the District which is NOT ruled by "We the People" but by "We the Corporations". Therefore, if you disobey orders to execute anything that your boss tells you, the People can't help because the People are few and far in between and the rest of us are just contracted slaves to the District... and a contracted slave has NO power in the Constituion for the United States to make any decisions at all regarding the U.S. Government.

What I mean to say is that it's all sold out and I'm sorry that you guys have suffered for a good cause only to suffer in general... because the work you guys accomplished has not prevented us from coming to this point. I hope it wasn't in vain. I hope you grew much stronger and learned a lot. I respect discipline greatly.

I just cannot respect authority that steals authority to its own selfish end. I cannot respect an authority that willingly kills people of the world off claiming that its own Constitution is a beacon for freedom instead of a beacon for tax fraud.

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:05 AM by DOADOA

Originally posted by black cat

Originally posted by DOADOA

Originally posted by Starbug3MY
Please have some respect for our veterans since they are the ones who put their lives on the line for whatever reason they think best.

I for one am extremely grateful for their Service.

yes, we all have respect for them. they were brave men and women who thought they were fighting for their country. unfortunately they died for a lie, they died for the wrong reason.

I served in Desert Storm. When did you serve? I knew full well I would see military action when I enlisted. It doesn't matter why we fight and die because we do so willingly. We enlist to serve our country and defend our nation's constitution and that means defending the rights of people like you who think they know what being military is all about. Even if we served and died in the most pointless excercise ever conceived we still serve our country with honor.

it is great that you willingly give your life and came back alive, what about those that didn't? if they can come back from the dead to the families they left behind to mourn their death, i'd like for you to sit there and talk like a tough guy that you pretend to be right now.

tell me than, when at any point int time was iraq a direct threat to our constitution? they couldn't have crossed a lake with their logistics let alone invade the United States of America.

being patriotic is one thing, defending your country with your life is another thing, but to completely ignorant with a one track mentality is just ridiculous.

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:06 AM by TheWrongStuff

reply to post by TarzanBeta

However, if you swore an oath to protect the Constitution for the United States against threats foreign and domestic, then why would you allow the nation's leaders to constantly rip it to pieces?

It is a soldier’s duty to follow orders and come home. It is a citizen’s responsibility to check the Congressional and Executive branch. The question is, why did you allow this? Why did you fail them?

See, isn’t politics fun?

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:10 AM by mnemeth1

reply to post by TheWrongStuff

I would say its a soldiers duty to uphold the US Constitution.

This includes disobeying orders to engage in unjust wars of aggression.

It also includes engaging in hostile actions against ones own government if that government is directly violating the US Constitution.

Of course, since I am an anarchist now, I don't recognize the validity of the US Constitution as a document that upholds my rights.

My "rights" if you want to call them that, come from the fact I am human. Since I am human, I am allowed to do as I please, as long as whatever it is I am doing is not harming someone else or damaging their property.

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:14 AM by TheWrongStuff

reply to post by DOADOA

Soldiers go where their country commands and do as they are ordered. The world is not perfect. America is not perfect. Other countries are not perfect. War sucks. Anybody who makes it through can deal with it any way they f'n way they choose as far as I am concerned.

..."talk like a tough guy.."; dude where I live that would cost you. Dudes from 82 to 18 that I know; crazy tough, don't tolerate that kind of sissy talk. That is a truly ignorant statement and you should feel shame for sinking to that level. These people are trying to make something of their lives and were sent into harms way and performed their duties with honor. What do you do to honor this country?

I bet I can guess what your answer is going to be already...the constitution; blah blah blah; the declaration; blah blah..you get where this is going?

Same question to every other finger pointer on this board; what is your equitable solution. I don't care what your complaints and perceived grievances are; if you're talking like that then you never served and it's time to cough up your share.

[edit on 28-8-2010 by TheWrongStuff]

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:24 AM by TarzanBeta

reply to post by TheWrongStuff

So long as you don't mean to degrade that honor that people keep in their everyday lives, then I understand what you mean.

But you don't need to be in the military to receive or keep honor. You don't need to be in the military to serve the people of your country. You don't have to be in politics to serve the people of your country.

You can simply serve other people anywhere, anyhow. Is it not more honorable to take the initiative and make the specific choice in what way and how much you will serve someone else than it is to simply do only as you are told and no more? There is honor in following orders, don't get me wrong. I just believe honor is not reserved specifically for the dead or their opposition.

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:27 AM by whatukno

reply to post by mnemeth1

Amazingly you too have the right to leave the union. I know how much you detest the United States, might I suggest that perhaps leaving the US for better places like Somalia or Chad. Someplace where they support your ideals better.

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:32 AM by TarzanBeta

Originally posted by TheWrongStuff
reply to post by TarzanBeta

However, if you swore an oath to protect the Constitution for the United States against threats foreign and domestic, then why would you allow the nation's leaders to constantly rip it to pieces?

It is a soldier’s duty to follow orders and come home. It is a citizen’s responsibility to check the Congressional and Executive branch. The question is, why did you allow this? Why did you fail them?

See, isn’t politics fun?

It is a soldier's duty to also defend the Constitution for the United States. If your boss tells you to go against that duty and you follow that order, you have failed your mission.

It is the peoples' responsibility as well, you are correct. However, the reason why the government was created was so that the people could enjoy their right to peace, properity, and the pursuit of happiness and it would be the job of the government to preserve these natural rights. IF you join the government, you have willingly taken the job to be the one responsible for specifically performing that duty.

Yes, we all messed up, but you were paid to be in charge of that duty... it's never good to tell your bosses that they messed up by not following you around making sure you did your job. We'd have to pay people to micromanage everything you do and then... oh wait we do. They are called officers. And even then, if they order you to do something against the Constitution, still yet, they are wrong and you are wrong for following that order because your original oath still stands. The reason for taking that oath before you even leave MEPS is because that is your very first and most important order after you just signed that contract to work for them.

But I am not literally trying to blame you for not changing things, don't get me wrong. I am simply trying to clear up for you guys what it is you have been doing. You have served honorably and well I am sure... just you didn't know who you were serving and why like you thought you did.

And I inform you in hopes that you attempt to help others see what it is they might be doing. And in hopes that if anyone continues to join the military that they look for Oath Keepers.

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:33 AM by mnemeth1

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by mnemeth1

Amazingly you too have the right to leave the union. I know how much you detest the United States, might I suggest that perhaps leaving the US for better places like Somalia or Chad. Someplace where they support your ideals better.

I have the right to do as I please, as long as whatever it is I'm doing isn't hurting anyone else or damaging their property.

Your response is typical of totalitarians. If I don't bow down and lick boots, then I should be booted out of the country.

Don't worry buddy - the time is coming when people will be fleeing this place just like East Germany. You will soon get your wish.

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:34 AM by TarzanBeta

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by mnemeth1

Amazingly you too have the right to leave the union. I know how much you detest the United States, might I suggest that perhaps leaving the US for better places like Somalia or Chad. Someplace where they support your ideals better.

I'm pretty sure that Thomas Jefferson never said, "If this government goes buck-wild, pack up and leave."

In fact... It was quite literally the exact opposite.

If we don't stand up against the people who have destroyed our country, then we fail the very people who formed it!

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:35 AM by whatukno

reply to post by mnemeth1

You were saying that the states have a right to secession from the union, I was just showing that you have that right too.

Just giving you options. Maybe also, you might want to check with a therapist or psychologist. It seems to me that you are becoming more mentally unstable.

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:37 AM by TarzanBeta

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by mnemeth1

You were saying that the states have a right to secession from the union, I was just showing that you have that right too.

Just giving you options. Maybe also, you might want to check with a therapist or psychologist. It seems to me that you are becoming more mentally unstable.

Alright Dr. House... you're the last person on the planet to be talking about mentally unstable.

You could just as well leave this conversation and not try to put your opinion in here... go to a board where people like popping pills.

Not trying to be literally rude, just playing off of your avatar. But seriously, the irony of your butting-in-ness is humorous. Ya cripple.

reply posted on 28-8-2010 @ 12:38 AM by TheWrongStuff

reply to post by TarzanBeta

You can simply serve other people anywhere, anyhow. Is it not more honorable to take the initiative and make the specific choice in what way and how much you will serve someone else than it is to simply do only as you are told and no more?

hmm...to be hypocritical and prove my point or remain true and concede a point to a foe? that is a question.

I will take the middle road for the moment. You were overly toxic in your reply. Political Insanity is one thing. Useless and condescending remarks resolve nothing. I will drag this board out of this bottom feeding cesspool.

Same question to all the finger pointers; provide an equitable solution.