Debunk evolution once and for all

Hang on there is a huge flaw in all this.

All this assumes that technology has actually made us more intelligent !

Originally posted by daggyz
Hang on there is a huge flaw in all this.

All this assumes that technology has actually made us more intelligent !

It is likely that it did:

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Methuselah


I for one don't think turning the US into a theocracy as you're suggesting would be a good idea...

reply to post by MrXYZ


so you mean to tell me that if we did abide by the 10 commandments and were held accountable to them (jail time, probation etc) we would be worse off?

reply to post by Methuselah

so you mean to tell me that if we did abide by the 10 commandments and were held accountable to them (jail time, probation etc) we would be worse off?

Lets see:

1. You shall have no other gods before me
2. You shall not make for yourself an idol
3. Do not take the name of the Lord in vain
4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
7. You shall not commit adultery
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

Yeah, we would be worse off. Sounds like a totalitarian dictatorship to me, with severely restricted personal and religious freedoms..

reply to post by Maslo


ZOMG! are you serious? adultery and coveting thy neighbors wife and other possessions... i cannot believe you actually included those in your dump list.
so its people like you who help pervert this world... i guess its inevitable but geez. i can understand the first few that are strictly about God would not want to be included but for someone to actually claim that adultery and coveting is ok... holy moly!

i need to go sit down and then go burn my computer.

[edit]
you think America as a country that conforming more and more towards Humanism (which is pretty much what America believes in today or has at least compromised their beliefs to fit in with humanism which is a product of Evolutionary thinking) is better off that way? look at the statistics, learn from old men and heed the warnings. we were waaaay better off following what this country was founded on and not what Darwin wrote. Just the title of his books starts to raise some serious problems once people start to believe this ridiculous theory... "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life" just think about how many people in history took that and ran with it.

Originally posted by Methuselah
reply to post by Maslo

 

ZOMG! are you serious? adultery and coveting thy neighbors wife and other possessions... i cannot believe you actually included those in your dump list.

Keep in mind that not all divisions of the ten commandments combine coveting your neighbors wife and coveting your neighbor's property into the same commandment; some have those as number nine and ten, respectively, meaning that he didn't say you shouldn't covet your neighbor's property.

Further, when you look at the definition for covet: "to desire wrongfully, inordinately, or without due regard for the rights of others: to covet another's property," it seems that your suggesting that the notion of punishment of peoples thoughts or feelings is appropriate. Do you want to punish people for what they think or feel? Regardless of whether or not they act on it?

Also, I notice that you totally sidestepped some valid concerns about state-sponsored religion. Given that you're a Biblical literalist and that you stated

Originally posted by Methuselah
so you mean to tell me that if we did abide by the 10 commandments and were held accountable to them (jail time, probation etc) we would be worse off?

Do you feel that it's right to enforce people's religious beliefs and maintenance of the Sabbath by rule of law?

you think America as a country that conforming more and more towards Humanism (which is pretty much what America believes in today or has at least compromised their beliefs to fit in with humanism which is a product of Evolutionary thinking) is better off that way?

The United States had the second lowest rate of subscription to evolution of all of the world's industrialized nations, second only to Turkey. So claiming that America subscribes to humanism wholesale is pretty flimsy.

The notion that people who believe in evolution are somehow inherently less just, ethical, or moral than people who believe in creation is offensive, short-sighted, and incredibly conceited.

"I'm sick of Atheist and any anti-Religious, or anti-God movement who revolve all their arguments around evolution."

Your title is a bit, well nuts don't you think. You have not in the least done what your title implicates. And for the the record, evolution has some pretty significant proof to support it, while your god theory has absolutely nothing but "faith" in it's corner. Faith isn't actually hard evidence in case you hadn't noticed. Good luck next time pal.

reply to post by Methuselah

ZOMG! are you serious? adultery and coveting thy neighbors wife and other possessions... i cannot believe you actually included those in your dump list.

What??

I cannot believe you are genuinely suggesting to outlaw adultery. People should have the right to choose their sexual partners. US was founded on the idea of personal liberty! Do you even understand the concept?

What you are proposing is a criminal regime!

btw. do you consider wife neighbours possesion?

reply to post by iterationzero

reply to post by Maslo


Well i can see you like to bend things out of context... both of you.
Adultery is a big problem in this country, how many problems would be solved if adultery was illegal?
STDs would be one... broken homes would be another, pre-adult parenting would be another.
Adultery is not a right of this country, its a pleasure that comes from breaking the morale law of Gods Word. The act itself is pleasurable yes i understand that, but when you boil it down, and you talk to older people who know what it was like back in the day, they will tell you that this country would be better off if adultery never entered the picture.

I never said that people should not have the right to choose their sexual partner... that it 100% fine. Proverbs even says that... if you would read! but thats not the issue being addressed. the issue is adultery which is fornicating outside of marriage existing or non-existing. push your selfish desires aside for just a few minutes and you will see that this country would be better off if we didnt have such immorality. maybe not a whole lot but it would still be one check box on the list of improvements.

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's."

Notice that the wife is separated from the rest of the 'possessions' when it comes to coveting.
i think the point is here that we shouldnt covet anything from anyone. because then you strongly desire something from someone else, you start to believe it should be yours. as you so nicely put it: to desire wrongfully, inordinately, or without due regard for the rights of others: to covet another's property,
are you telling me that this mindset would not transform a person into a criminal? or cause them to steal? lie? or perhaps kill?

Originally posted by iterationzero
The United States had the second lowest rate of subscription to evolution of all of the world's industrialized nations, second only to Turkey. So claiming that America subscribes to humanism wholesale is pretty flimsy.

The notion that people who believe in evolution are somehow inherently less just, ethical, or moral than people who believe in creation is offensive, short-sighted, and incredibly conceited.

Oh i agree that they dont believe in evolution, but its hard for most people to define exactly what they believe in when the choice has already been made for them... ie science...
This evolutionary theory is blended in as it were part of science (we have already gone over which parts are and which parts are not science) when only parts of it are, the parts we can observe, test and demonstrate. so when you poll someone and ask "what do you believe in" they arent going to chose Evolution because they think its part of science... people see science as hard facts, evidence and piles of it. experiments to replicate the evidence or facts. but not everyone is a scientists so many just rely on the word of the scientific community which was a big mistake because now days, most people dont even know what they believe in when it comes to evolution & science.

If you want to argue what this country was founded on you really need to stop listening to politics and read the 'Declaration of Independence' and the 'Constitution of the United States'.
I understand 'why' it was established, but it appears that most people including yourselves do not understand or do not want to understand upon 'what' it was established upon.
just read the documents

reply to post by Methuselah


What does Darwin have to do with how we run our country or religion? His theory, and successive related theories, explain how flora & fauna (including us) evolved...NOT how we're supposed to live our lives. Choosing how to live your life is a personal choice and has nothing to do with the fact that we evolved.

Didn't go through all the posts 35+ pgs!!!! Such a HOT issue. IMO it takes just as much faith to be an evolutionist (if not more so) versus a creationist, hindu, scientoligist etc. I have personally watched MIRACULOUS things happen, like watching a leg grow 3 inches in 30 seconds to correct a bonespur. While this is a personal experience and don't expect anyone to 'trust' me, I cannot deny that there is something more than this physical/material existence.
So with that in mind...
1) It takes a lot of faith to believe the first cell somehow formed itself- much less into a self replicating DESIGN. (I know you like the use of that word)
2) Everything in my experience tells me that if I don't stay ontop of mainting order...I will be enveloped in chaos. Down to feeding the dog and cleaning the dishes. ,No matter how long I leave these things to their own devices they never take care of themselves- BLAST
3)The human mind is so much more complex than a computer in reference to the topic, it would seem a matter of faith to believe it 'only' took a couple billion years to come about.
4) Examples abound from both sides of the aisle of why one is right and the other wrong. With the number of varying opinions, the concensus should be "I have my faith you have yours"
5) Science is by nature, limited in its scope. Empirical reasoning is not a basis for philosphy/theology due to the fact that through empirical reasoning not one of you have a BRAIN. We just take it on faith that its there.
Makes me think of two bumerstickers " a mind is like a parachute, must be open to work" and " your're so openminded, your brains are leaking out"
At the very least the human body is a virtually perfect machine capable of things men have only dreamed of REPLICATING.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Didn't go through all the posts 35+ pgs!!!! Such a HOT issue. IMO it takes just as much faith to be an evolutionist (if not more so) versus a creationist, hindu, scientoligist etc. I have personally watched MIRACULOUS things happen, like watching a leg grow 3 inches in 30 seconds to correct a bonespur. While this is a personal experience and don't expect anyone to 'trust' me, I cannot deny that there is something more than this physical/material existence.
So with that in mind...
1) It takes a lot of faith to believe the first cell somehow formed itself- much less into a self replicating DESIGN. (I know you like the use of that word)
2) Everything in my experience tells me that if I don't stay ontop of mainting order...I will be enveloped in chaos. Down to feeding the dog and cleaning the dishes. ,No matter how long I leave these things to their own devices they never take care of themselves- BLAST
3)The human mind is so much more complex than a computer in reference to the topic, it would seem a matter of faith to believe it 'only' took a couple billion years to come about.
4) Examples abound from both sides of the aisle of why one is right and the other wrong. With the number of varying opinions, the concensus should be "I have my faith you have yours"
5) Science is by nature, limited in its scope. Empirical reasoning is not a basis for philosphy/theology due to the fact that through empirical reasoning not one of you have a BRAIN. We just take it on faith that its there.
Makes me think of two bumerstickers " a mind is like a parachute, must be open to work" and " your're so openminded, your brains are leaking out"
At the very least the human body is a virtually perfect machine capable of things men have only dreamed of REPLICATING.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Methuselah
Well i can see you like to bend things out of context... both of you.

Nothing is being taken out of context. In order for that to happen, there has to be some kind of context given which is why I'm asking direct questions about what you said and, once again, you're sidestepping. Your shoes must be getting really worn out from all of the dancing around.

Adultery is not a right of this country, its a pleasure that comes from breaking the morale law of Gods Word. The act itself is pleasurable yes i understand that, but when you boil it down, and you talk to older people who know what it was like back in the day, they will tell you that this country would be better off if adultery never entered the picture.

And I’m sure that if you asked deeper questions, you’d find older people who still think “miscegenation” should never have entered the picture either.

i think the point is here that we shouldnt covet anything from anyone. because then you strongly desire something from someone else, you start to believe it should be yours. as you so nicely put it: to desire wrongfully, inordinately, or without due regard for the rights of others: to covet another's property,

OK, I’m going to ask the question again. Earlier you claimed that society would be better if the ten commandments were enforced by law. How, exactly, do you plan on enforcing the coveting of a neighbor’s property? Do you believe that people should be fined, jailed, or otherwise punished for their thoughts, regardless of whether or not they act on them? I’m asking because you provided no further context beyond the statement which I quoted in my last reply to you.

This evolutionary theory is blended in as it were part of science (we have already gone over which parts are and which parts are not science) when only parts of it are, the parts we can observe, test and demonstrate. so when you poll someone and ask "what do you believe in" they arent going to chose Evolution because they think its part of science... people see science as hard facts, evidence and piles of it. experiments to replicate the evidence or facts. but not everyone is a scientists so many just rely on the word of the scientific community which was a big mistake because now days, most people dont even know what they believe in when it comes to evolution & science.

If someone says, “I don’t believe in evolution because of my religious beliefs”, I can completely accept that answer. I’ll never begrudge anyone the tenets of their faith. But it truly and deeply saddens me when people say they don’t believe it because science doesn’t support it. Evolution is not “blended in as [if] it were part of science” – it is science, part and parcel. I am genuinely sorry that you feel as though society is moving in the wrong direction and somehow it’s all the fault of scientific research into evolution. But for you to sit there and say that it’s not science when an overwhelming abundance of evidence has been provided to you just reeks of being in denial. There are plenty of good, moral people out there who believe in evolution and find no incompatibility between it and their faith.

If you want to argue what this country was founded on you really need to stop listening to politics and read the 'Declaration of Independence' and the 'Constitution of the United States'. I understand 'why' it was established, but it appears that most people including yourselves do not understand or do not want to understand upon 'what' it was established upon. just read the documents

I’ve read both, many times over. I guess I missed the part where they state that this country was founded on the ten commandments and that people should be punished by law if they break those commandments. And remember, men like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin didn’t embrace religious dogmatism, they rejected it.

reply to post by Methuselah

Adultery is a big problem in this country, how many problems would be solved if adultery was illegal? STDs would be one... broken homes would be another, pre-adult parenting would be another.

Adultery is not a problem at all. Irresponsible people are the problem behind STDs, broken homes and pre-adult parenting.

Before we ban adultery, we have to ban alcohol, smoking, guns, speedy cars, knives, low-grade explosives, excessive TV watching, unhealthy food, and most importantly, religious nutcases. Those things cause much more problems than adultery.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin

since methuselah wants to enforce the 10 commandments, i say why stop there? why not the entire 613 laws created by "god" to include not wearing clothing made of two different materials? however, on the brightside adultery would disappear, as more than one wife was ok! polygamy, now thats what i call "traditional marriage"! but wait, i just remembered something. is having concubines considered adultery? cause king whats-his-name (david?) had 300+ wives and 700+ concubines.

enough with the god talk. there is more evidence for the theory of evolution than there is for magnatism. we see magnatism work everyday, yet we still dont know exactly how it works. now if you read the "tao of physics" by fritjof chopri you will see how the asian religions were much more on the mark when it comes to quantum physics than the judaic (jew, christian, muslim) religions could ever be.

now, to quote the catholic church, "there is but one truth, and if science says that evolution is true, then obviously god used evolution, because god is the one truth behind all things." finally a religion that puts science in its place, this world, and god in his, the next.

Originally posted by Methuselah
If you want to argue what this country was founded on you really need to stop listening to politics and read the 'Declaration of Independence' and the 'Constitution of the United States'.
I understand 'why' it was established, but it appears that most people including yourselves do not understand or do not want to understand upon 'what' it was established upon.
just read the documents

Being a naturalized citizen, I have read much including the these documents with regards to the founding of this nation. (Quite interesting for me considering I am English by birth).

Gotta tell ya bub you're backing a loser here, the founding of this nation and those documents has everything to do with giving individuals the right to worship (or not) as they choose and ensuring that it stays completely separate from the governance of this nation.

The USA is not, was not, and hopefully never will be, a Christian/Jewish/Muslim/Hindu or any other sect/religion nation.
No sir, it is one in which you should not live in fear of persecution because of your faith, or lack thereof, while accepting that your faith is never going to be the deciding factor in the laws of the land.
We the people...... does not read :

"We the Christian people" nor should it EVER.... It is bad enough that the Pledge and the money was changed.

Now you want commandments scripted by bronze age goat farmers to enable their tightly woven extended family units to function to become the mainstay of the law of the land ?

Please...has the example of Islamic fundamentalism taught you nothing ? because honestly the difference between that and what you propose....well if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.............

Originally posted by oozyism
I'm talking about Universal + Biological evolution, I believe non is random, it is absurd to claim it is random because it has been proven that nothing in this universe is random.

On the contrary, it has been proven that the universe actually is quite random. In fact, quantum mechanics has proven that the universe is this way.

You are also making the fallacy of assuming that evolution is random, not quite. Would you call fusion in the sun random? No, fusion and evolution rely on natural processes, not some statistical function, or 'chance'.

nvm

The whole evolution/God did it theory has always interested me. If you want to add a lot of info both sides are missing, you might want to see this stuff

www.thechronicleproject.org...