Debunk evolution once and for all, page 40

What does then ???

learn.genetics.utah.edu...

That pretty much sums it up. A variety of things can cause a genetic mutation. Or is this not really what you wanted? Hopefully I didn't just fall into a trap.

reply to post by Barcs

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Thank you for the link...

A theory. perhaps plausible... but whether realistic or in fact the underlying cause or not, is not known or can't be proved.

As I said I accept "Evolution" as a Concept... but understand it perhaps a little different than many others...

Each individual species seams to adapt at different rates and degrees, while some appear not to...

One example regarding desire.
Desire is required to procreate a species or the next generation would be non existent.

In the case of the human species, we have choice in whether or not we have our offspring but not all do, but this is still driven by desire.

Some call it natural selection but really we don't consider this when we choose a partner do we?.

Rarely we consider the DNA or RNA structure of the next generation is made up of...

If we did, we would be disease free by now, and NOT die.
We would have mastered these conditions as most of us don't want these conditions anyway.

What caused us to start procreating in the first place???
(If all started from a single cell in a pond, even if there were many different individual cells floating around).

Another thing is, we have components in our genitalia (in the case of the female) which allow for sexual pleasure, (which we don't need to get into) yet have nothing at all to do with child birth or for that matter the procreation of the Species.

So what caused our Genetic code to mutate to introduce "Sexual Reproduction" into the general make up and behavior patterns of many species, yet some self procreate, some being animals while other plants we even have hermaphrodites (even in the human species though rare)?

And what introduced these Wings, or caused them to form instead of arms. Why Two wings in some cases and multiple section wings in others (Insects) but never One only ???

Before the bird obtained these wings, (in its Genetic code) what caused the bird to obtain these, knowing nothing at all about air or aerodynamics ???
How would it know the need to fly or that it could fly for that matter???

The birds wing is rather a complex structure, not just involving the bone structure alone but also feathers, the muscles to control them, and the brain structure to use such (the control of these).
And it is desire which causes the bird to fly (and its flight path) or not fly.

And were did Desire come from in the first place and how and why ???
It is desire which appears to cause the physical behavior of most Species or are they all just automatic without any knowledge of the environment or self awareness???
Perhaps Not self awareness but its environment but what produces the desire to live and not die i.e. be eaten.

Although most species have in fact, similar DNA they may vary exceptionally.
Today much research is being done with RNA and it would appear we are only scratching the surface regarding the complete make up which controls the structure of each species.
It may very well be we discover much, much more in the future, we at present don't even know exists.

I think you will find the whole subject is far far more complex, than the human species can imagine, well at present anyway.

I really think a few more hundred or even thousands of years, involving research is required before we can get anywhere near understanding the truth, regarding our species or for that matter any other species.

We as a species are very, very primitive and have a long, long way to go yet...

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

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First of all, we know how wings developed in birds: LINK

Secondly, you are trying to attribute human traits to evolution, which simply doesn't work. For example, you mention "desire" as something that sets us apart from animals...and that we chose no have or not have offspring. In reality, we can explain "desire" through science. There's pheromones that make you either desire someone or not, physical features that have been engrained in you through experience (for example, if a girlfriend with a massive nose hurt you once, you're less likely to end up with one afterwards...subconscious choice).

In short, nothing suggests we are different from animals when it comes to evolution...no matter how much some would like this to not being the case

I agree with you on one thing though, humans are primitive...we are a VERY young species on the evolutionary tree. If you take a clock with 24hrs, we showed up 1min before midnight. We are the dominant species now (after insects), but so were the dinosaurs a few million years ago...and look how many of those are around today. Fact is, in a million years, if we make it that far, we probably won't look like we do today...in fact, that's guaranteed. Just look at the neanderthals and how different they are, and that's less than 250k years ago!

So humans should get off their high horse and realize that they're simply not as special as they think. For all we know, the next dominant species could be a future generation of squirrels or bats...at least if you look at it from a cosmological timeframe.

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Barcs

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A theory. perhaps plausible... but whether realistic or in fact the underlying cause or not, is not known or can't be proved.

If you have a better scientific idea on what causes mutations I'd love to hear it. It doesn't really matter what causes mutations. We know that they happen and we know they drive evolution.

One example regarding desire.
Desire is required to procreate a species or the next generation would be non existent.

In the case of the human species, we have choice in whether or not we have our offspring but not all do, but this is still driven by desire.

Desire only really exists in humans, great apes, Dolphins and a few other select species. Procreation is driven by hormones, which causes desires in humans and makes cats, dogs and other animals go into heat. Desire is a bad term to use or that

Some call it natural selection but really we don't consider this when we choose a partner do we?.

Not consciously, but we definitely do. Most men are attracted to "hot" females. (ie nice body, pretty face, beautiful hair, etc etc). This is called sexual selection, which also drives evolution. The "ugly" men or women might have a more difficult time finding a mate, which determines which genes are passed down. So the healthier people reproduce more.

Another thing is, we have components in our genitalia (in the case of the female) which allow for sexual pleasure, (which we don't need to get into) yet have nothing at all to do with child birth or for that matter the procreation of the Species.

Sexual pleasure has EVERYTHING to do with child birth. Why do you think humans have populated to 7 billion? If sex wasn't pleasurable there'd be a lot less procreation, obviously. If humans didn't produce hormones for sexual desire and sex wasn't pleasurable, we'd probably have died out a long time ago.

So what caused our Genetic code to mutate to introduce "Sexual Reproduction" into the general make up and behavior patterns of many species, yet some self procreate, some being animals while other plants we even have hermaphrodites (even in the human species though rare)?

I already explained what causes genetic mutations. The favorable ones survive and procreate. That's why sex is pleasurable and why sexual reproduction is prevalent on the planet.

And what introduced these Wings, or caused them to form instead of arms. Why Two wings in some cases and multiple section wings in others (Insects) but never One only ???

Ever try google? www.dinosaur-world.com... Here's a very basic link about it. Like I said, the information is out there. www.ucmp.berkeley.edu... Here's another informative link.

Before the bird obtained these wings, (in its Genetic code) what caused the bird to obtain these, knowing nothing at all about air or aerodynamics ??? How would it know the need to fly or that it could fly for that matter???

It's not about knowing how to fly, it's about surviving, and the birds that had light bones and wings were the ones that survived the disaster at the end of the Triassic period. Once again you are suggesting that desire or knowledged drives genetic mutation. It isn't desire, it's instinctual survival.

And were did Desire come from in the first place and how and why ???

Note what I said above about hormones.

It is desire which appears to cause the physical behavior of most Species or are they all just automatic without any knowledge of the environment or self awareness???
Perhaps Not self awareness but its environment but what produces the desire to live and not die i.e. be eaten.

It's mostly instinct, not desire. A cat survives because of its heightened senses and it walks by stepping in its own footprint with the hind feet. This isn't taught to the cat, it's natural. A nervous system causes animals to feel pleasure and pain. Obviously nothing wants to die or get eaten by a predator. Calling it desire, is simply too simple of an explanation when you consider the hundreds of factors that go into survival vs extinction.

I think you will find the whole subject is far far more complex, than the human species can imagine, well at present anyway.

The process is complex, but the concept is simple. Adaptation to environments.

I really think a few more hundred or even thousands of years, involving research is required before we can get anywhere near understanding the truth, regarding our species or for that matter any other species.

Well obviously. Just like any field, the more we study, the more we know.

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