Assange no longer wanted

meh.. nvm

mods please delete this post or just ignore. Had a thought but lost it.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

[edit on 21-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by smurfy

 

Possesion of Classified Material.
Distribution of Classified Material
Providing Material Support to enemys (by release of this information).

Possesion of Classified Information USC 18, part 1, chapter 37 section 798

He received this information from an individual in the US Armed services. The moment he took possession of that information, then decided to post it to the world to see, he violated Federal Law.

The items he had in his possesion belonged to the Government of the United States. It doesnt matter where he lives, or where he obtained the documents, The documents were not his to release.

He violated US Law by being in possession, refusing to turn them back over, and by releasing them.

While you can make the argument US Law does not apply, in this case he willing violated US law by refusing to turn the documents back over, making himself a target of those laws.

Claiming the US does not hvae jurisdiction here is not going to fly, and there are court cases throughout the world to back that up both extraditing to the US, as well as extraditing from the US to other countries. If by your argument no one is able to break a law of a country they dont reside in, then there would be no reason for interpol.

Also, the British guy who hacked into the Pentagon computers from his house in England found out, by using the same argument US Law does not apply to him, was incorrect. The Home Secratary allowed his extradition back to the United States for prosecution.

What country do you reside in out of curiosity (N. Ireland / UK like your stats say or somewhere else?).. The reason I ask is there are a lot of treaties in place, including Criminal Extradition. If you change the countries in this, from the US to say Russia, or Israel, or England, and the same thing happened, you could be charged under their laws, and could be extradited back to one of those countries ot face charges.

U.S. - U.K. Criminal Extradition Treaty = Replaces 1972 treaty
This link also talks about the issues of the new treaty, as well as analysis / differences between the 2 countries systems. In the intrest of fairness I am using this one instead of the Government re;eased version that does not point some of these issues out.

Also, keep in mind its entirely possible to make espionage charges in this case as well, depending on motive, whihc could open up a different can of worms entirely.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by Xcathdra] - Spelling and stuff



[edit on 21-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

[edit on 21-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

[edit on 21-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

[edit on 21-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

He is Nomadic, the information was placed on the ether and not by him, so now we all have it?? we are all guilty..do you want to go with that?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
And finally why this guy has no credibility...

Assange told Der Spiegel in an interview that he likes confronting the powerful. "I enjoy creating systems on a grand scale, and I enjoy helping people who are vulnerable," he said. "And I enjoy crushing bastards. So it is enjoyable work."

He is doing nothing more than getting thrills from doing this, so he can say he is sticking it to the man. He is doing nothing more than running his own agenda.

If that quote was attributed to George W Bush speaking about Saddam Hussein, maybe you'd think it was no problem...maybe actually agreeing?

I'm not sure what Assange and Wikileaks is really all about, but they have pushed back on some tinpot dictators that killed and terrorized people. They haven't just been doing work that involves the USA. I'm just waiting to see whether Wikileaks is some covert organization from the alphabet soup agencies or is really trying to help those that can't help themselves. Tough to know what is real these days.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by thepixelpusher]

reply to post by thepixelpusher


I guess I have a different view about our venture into Iraq. I am very much for people to be free.. What good is it when we stand by allowing genocide to happen.

And before we invoke bush again, I am referring to the entire world... Why is it acceptable? We seem to forget the plaque dedicated after WWII - Facism - Never again.

and back on topic, I am not really sure what you are insinuating. The quote is from Mr. Assange himself, not someone else putting words in his mouth.



[edit on 21-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

reply to post by smurfy


Technically speaking yeah they could but thats pandoras box. I think it would be no different than music companies going after people who share music against copyright laws. The argument is its not theirs and they stole it.

People who shared music on a smaller scale were not targeted nearly as much as the people who were sharing 100's if not thousands of songs, both here in the States and overseas (Copyright act by the UN).

Will it happen in the end? Nope, the damage is done. So they are going after the member of the military who leaked it, and the person who leaked it to the rest of the World. It doesnt matter if he did it himself. Its his site, and the moment a worker of his posted the info, he was obligated to remove it when requested. Instead of doing this, he refused and posted more info. Its his site, he controls the content, and whether or not his company will break the law or abide by it.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

reply to post by Xcathdra


Then we have some overlapping common opinions. "Freedom for Iraq". Trouble is that wasn't the military objective in going in there. If some country didn't like our President/military and decided to occupy our country, would that represent freedom to you?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by thepixelpusher

 

I guess I have a different view about our venture into Iraq. I am very much for people to be free.. What good is it when we stand by allowing genocide to happen.

That would be a good question to ask Donald Rumsfeld if you bump into him. You see he was shaking the hand of Saddam in the 80's, all the while knowing of the way he was treating the Kurds using the weapons we'd given him. But because Saddam was our ally against Iran, it was no problem apparently, at least until we didn't need Saddam anymore.

But, back to the OP topic.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by thepixelpusher]

reply to post by thepixelpusher


It would be hard to answer that without knowing the reasons for the invasion I guess. The world is not perfct, and we do the best we can.

We get in trouble when we dont act, and we get in trouble when we do act.. We are told we are not the Worlds Policeman, yet at the same time the rest of the world says this shouldnt be occuring and we need to stop it, lets call the US.

Dont get me wrong, I am very much for transparency in Government, from Alein Disclosure to who assasinated Kennedy. I guess the question I ask myself is this:

Will it make a difference knowing the situation is done and overwith? We cant undo the past. I just find it difficult to balance National Security over disclosure of information.

When classified information is leaked, I dont think people understand the consequences. Most of the information is coming from human assets in place in other countries.

To people who are not familiar with this, its only expected for people to argue that, say technical information on Irans nuke reactor, should be released to everyone.. I mean, whats the harm in releasing detailed information on their nuke plant right..

The issue now becomes how did we get that information? If only 1 or 2 people know that information, releasing it just exposed them and potentially jeopradized their lives.

The other thing I take into account is we only get part of the story from the media. The Government tells us that Iraq has WMDS. We know for a fact they did during the 1st gulf war because we sold them to Hussein during there war with Iran.

There is information that shows not only did husseing plan on resuming a WMD program once the UN moved onto something else, we have evidence that prohibited (under UN resolution) components was transfered to Syria (Their government is also bath'st party) to hold onto until it was clear to send it back.

Israel attacked a nuke site in Syria last year that barely made the news.

How should a government release this information to the public? Is it relevant to the general population that Syria was construction a nuke site?

How do you balance state secrets against public information? We dont always know the entire story, nor do we ever get all of the information. I have to trust that the people we sent to govern us make those decisions with more information that we get.

I personaly would be ok without knowing if it means protecting our, as well as allied, troops who are going to be the most damaged by a leak.

As far as the Rumsfeld comment, yeah, we backed Iraq during the war with Iran. We arent the ones who caused the 2 to go to war. You have to look at both countries and ask yourself, which one is better to work with (lesser of the 2 evils). Next is long term... If Iraq falls, this places Iran onto borders with Suadi, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria. Now what?

Does it justify us goiing into Iraq to remove Sadam? I guess better late to the party than never showing up.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

[edit on 22-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

[edit on 22-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

reply to post by Xcathdra


We agree again on some things. I don't know what to make of Wikileaks and Assange...either good or bad yet.

A lot of the info about military strikes and civilian casualties have already leaked out on the web (though 2nd hand testimony only) and other videos have been out there too.

My concern is that a good share of our economy could be dependant upon the profits from war activities and could prompt the continuation of war for that reason alone. Investment of billions of dollars for war doesn't help our economy in the long run. Look at Russia.

reply to post by thepixelpusher


If only could we go back to the days of Civus Romanis... I am a roman citizen. Thats all that had to be uttered and people would leave them alone. Mess with aRoman citizen, and you mess with Rome. If only we could do that today...

Appeasement does not work and we have history to prove that (WWII bcomes to mind).

The war in afghanistan, to me, is one we dont walk away from until Bin Laden as well as the taliban leaders are still free. Giving up on those goals, in my opinion, would dishonor the people who lost their lives on 9/11 (not all were American).

You dont release these types of documents while we are still engaged with the enemy, especially for the reason of not likeing the U.S. Government. And especially when you dont have the whole picture.

You release documents whose explanation / background info is contained in a document not released, and you just painted a picture that could be entirely wrong, causing the loss of lives for no reason.

Its irresponsible.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
The war in afghanistan, to me, is one we dont walk away from until Bin Laden as well as the taliban leaders are still free. Giving up on those goals, in my opinion, would dishonor the people who lost their lives on 9/11 (not all were American).

You are very, very lost my friend. Ever wondered how Saddam could be found hiding in a hole within a year but OBL still hasn't been found after 9 years? People who died on 9/11 will continue to be dishonoured as long as people believe the OS (Official Story) represents the truth about the events surrounding that day. Those who died will continue to be dishonoured when young lives are lost everyday in two never-ending wars that were based on lies.

You dont release these types of documents while we are still engaged with the enemy, especially for the reason of not likeing the U.S. Government. And especially when you dont have the whole picture.

Did you have the "whole picture" when the Coalition invaded Afghanistan and Iraq? Were you so eager to wait for the facts confirming these wars as justified?

You release documents whose explanation / background info is contained in a document not released, and you just painted a picture that could be entirely wrong, causing the loss of lives for no reason.

Its irresponsible.

How many lives have been lost on both sides due to the events of 9/11 and its aftermath? What do you think has the potential to cause more loss of lives:
1) Invading two foreign countries based on reasons that turned out to be false and misleading
2) Releasing documents that show information about what is happening in these wars

Have a think about that.

[edit on 22/8/2010 by Dark Ghost]

what an effective distraction this fellow assange is. leading us to believe there is someone fighting for our cause, a worthy opponent to the man. foolish really.

just a tool in their arsenal, a tool they use along with many other elements to destroy what little ability to reason we have left. no matter, i just hope they know what they're doing, and they're doing it for the sake of humanity. if not, thats just too bad.

go ahead and indulge yourselves in this senseless charade and ignore the obvious. ignore the the engineered changes around you. real genius these people or should i say in-genius.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Uhm... yeah..

If you can provide documents that implicate our leaders involvement in 9/11 then its just speculation. The info that is out there has been refuted time and again. Ive watched most of the videos out there that call 9/11 into question. If it were an inside job I would think the Democrats would of opened that pandors box on day 1.

The theory that Bin Laden is a figment of the imagination is humerous being we know he is real. We worked with him during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. He is to radical for Saudia Arabia, who stripped his citizenship, and that says alot.

Hussein was captured, tried, and executed by the Iraqi people.. A Phyric victory considering what Saddam has done to the people of Iraq.

3k people - Americans, British, other countries spanning a multitude of religions, including muslim.

With the number of foriegn intelligence agenices who are just as good as ours, this is not a secret that would be kept, unless you are suggesting its a coverup of world wide proportions.

The American Government was speaking with the Taliban about getting Bin Laden turned over to us.. They did not want to comply.. Thats their choice.

The documents that were illegally obtained and released is going to cause a mess and put our soldiers lives in danger.

As I said before, and contrary to your opinion, its irresponsible to do this, no matter what you think may or may not have occured on 9/11.

reply to post by DOADOA


The other thing I find intresting are the number of people with massive distrust of our Government. Couldnt the argument be made that with the number of people who see conspiracies in everything are actually being influenced by the Government, or a New World Order operation.

Make the population distrust their Government, thereby replacing it with people who are already under a mind control plan. Who needs foriegn troops to conquer the US, when we are doing it internally for them.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by DOADOA

 

The other thing I find intresting are the number of people with massive distrust of our Government. Couldnt the argument be made that with the number of people who see conspiracies in everything are actually being influenced by the Government, or a New World Order operation.

Make the population distrust their Government, thereby replacing it with people who are already under a mind control plan. Who needs foriegn troops to conquer the US, when we are doing it internally for them.

the new world order and everything within it is irrelevant. the NWO itself was a conspiracy long before it was realized. that in itself is like a dog chasing its own, only to catch it in the end. you tell me what you want and i will make it so if only to keep you preoccupied while i complete what really matter.

in a sense, there really aren't any border. it is only there to separate the masses, performed its job flawlessly. why put to waste a tool that have existed for as long as we have been? if you fail to see the days of conquering is over, let me remind you that it has already been conquered, all of it. whats left is the molding of a whole species into one organism. the task have proven itself to be a tough one, possible nonetheless, with the world and everything in it at their disposal.

some of you might think you've awaken, be aware that you are only awake in a dream.

I love it, didint take too long for the story to change, im proud to be canadien today, on the average news cast, the journalist talked about the possible big ennemies this dude created , and also that this accusation comes before anther release of information, wow a normal journalist found the truth eheheheheh, i guess we canadiens arent that bad...

dorry for the spelling errors english is my second language

Originally posted by boondock-saint
wow, all that was over faster than getting rid
of a migraine. lol

after this, I have to wonder if unknown
entities will stoop this low to pin rape
and molestation charges on an individual
then I have to wonder if these same entities
couldn't smear the Catholic Church with
the same technique. I mean seriously,
there seems to be a new news story monthly
about some priest who did something to
somebody. Could this be just a type of
smear tactic to discredit whatever entity
(insert entity name here) that TPTB wants
to discredit?? Is it a trend to rid the world
of the church and/or dogooders???

lol, no, priests really do molest little boys as often as it seems. Sorry you can't handle the truth lol.

Really hope wikileaks lets out what they have got and stop pantying around. Hoping my avatar picture comes up at last

They will do the same they did with Michael Jackson - they will make him look like pedophile. This is how they destroyed Jackson's message of peace, love and anti NWO, and this is how will they try to discredit Juliane Assange

Assange guilty of rape but CIA/Mossad foiled the investigation?

I would like to bring to your attention the vicious smear campaign that Jeff Rense is supporting against Wikileaks. As many of you know the Rense.com website usually only posts the text for a relevant headline. They currently have a headline: "CIA/Mossad Foil US Mil Assange Rape Charge?".

If you follow the link to the relevant AOL News page, the actual headline reads: "Sweden Cancels Warrant for Arrest of WikiLeaks Founder."

This is first time I have ever seen Rense.com completely misrepresent a news headline. Besides the CIA/Mossad implication, please also note the implication that Assange is in fact guilty of rape!

I urge those that support unbiased news, Wikileaks or Assange to let Jeff and his webmaster know that this kind of dirty trick is unacceptable.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I was going to write out a long reply to refute most of the things you have said, but I realise there is little point. You are free to believe what you want and form your own opinions. I just hope when you find yourself on the Battlefield, you know who your true enemy is.