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Retired General Slams NY 'Mosque' Critics

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posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 07:49 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I attempt to address the article posted as a good will gesture to refocus and discuss the article and in doing this, I have been placed on ignore.

Leaders lead by example, non leaders but who claim to be "leaders" are simply "re acting" and not striving to treat all with the same toneage or similar tonage.

The general has a lot to teach us all.

Thank you,

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 07:54 PM

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by Dock9

Perhaps he inclued the word mosque because it is the headline on the story of this breaking news. Per T&C. In addition, you did not that the word mosque is in quotations, right? And you know what that means?

The title advises that a retired general is 'slamming critics' of the New York mosque

There are many critics of that mosque

Along comes a thread stating that a retired general is slamming those critics -- in other words, is coming down heavily on anyone critical of the proposed siting of an Islamic mosque where 3000 civilians, going about their work-day, were killed - killed horribly

So that thread title is emotive from the outset. It's verbatim from the msm, which is capitalising on the controversy

The msm makes enormous money from anything newsworthy -- not via the sale of newspapers, but from the paid advertisements which pay a premium to be located in close proximity with 'big news'. Same with ATS -- revenue is derived from those who're keen to advertise their products. Increased circulation (controversy is good) results in increased revenue

There were numerous highly-charged 'mosque' related threads already in existence when the OP initiated this one

In fact, one of the only ways to sneak another mosque-related thread onto the board at that juncture was to be able to cite 'breaking news'. And yes, when one enters a thread under the 'Breaking News' banner, one must quite the source verbatim

Within the thread title is the word mosque. The OP cannot possibly claim to be unaware of the numerous existing topics about the controversial mosque, nor can he claim not be aware that those drawn to this thread would simultanously be posting in other mosque-related threads. So, in effect, the OP could have expected traffic to his thread -- drawn by the fact (a) it is a 'mosque thread' -- but more importantly (b) this thread announces that those opposed to the proposed and controversial New York mosque have been 'slammed' by a retired general

Those in favour of the proposed mosque would be attracted and overjoyed to learn a 'retired general' was 'slamming' their opposition

and those opposed to the mosque would be offended and might even feel they'd been personally 'slammed' by this general

As to 'hearts and minds' -- well, people have expressed their opinion about the worthwhileness (or not) of the 'hearts and minds' campaign

The fact remains that this thread sought to capitalise on the current and heated controversy in this board re: the proposed NY mosque

The retired general's opinion, realistically, is of no greater import than that of any poster in this board

The justification for what is yet another 'mosque' thread are the words 'slam' and 'general'

The drawcard is the word 'mosque'

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 07:54 PM

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Government says all Muslims are not extremists yet government and media is constantly painting them all as extremists.

Indeed, and all it really is is a more refined 21st century application of McCarthyism ... with each one of those two elements hedging the other.

As you and many others know better than myself, there is uncountable amount of money to be made and power to be acquired by exploiting our fears and keeping us at each throats in perpetuity.

Some as we have seen on this thread are easily wagged to do their bidding.

I don't know, from the outside it all seems so clear and somewhat ridiculous to me.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 07:59 PM
Ah, but did the good general try and set up Christian churchs in those muslim war zones? Of course not. It would have been outrageous to them and they wouldn't have stood for it.

Same here. Eff any of the haters who think otherwise.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:00 PM
I find it disturbing that so many fight the Constitution and not let a group of religious followers worship because of an event.

You who protest the idea of the Mosque are repulsive...and a disgrace to this country.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by SeventhSeal]

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:06 PM
Great find, and great thoughts on that find, PT.

Y'know, this really bothers me. It seems that The People have forgotten what being American means. We have forgotten basics, the foundational principles. In this silly "mosque" debate we see that American's are now willing to waive the First Amendment. Now, it may not seem major. But this is a very scary thought to me.

Depending on the version of history you believe, freedom from religious persecution was a prime factor in the creation of the US. But this is deeper than even that. We see that, despite all the "PC" programming that we have received as a nation, that we are still willing to exert bigoted viewpoints onto specific classes of people. Trampling another foundational principle: that all people are created equal.

I hear, often, that it wouldn't be so bad if we saw the 'good muslims" speaking out. How often does the average American get to see news that isn't filtered through some media Gatekeeper (informational bottlenecks in international media, such as AP and Reuters)? Do we know who is speaking out and who isn't? Is it even reported?

I know that I frequently see Muslims on TV that denounce it. As often as TV allows, anyway. Consider the "Antoine" video, or any other news video on your local channel. The media seem to search out the lowest denominator and interview them for the entertainment of the masses. Would you not expect them to do the same with Muslims as well?

I guess what i am getting at is, we base our opinions on the narrow and myopic view of our nations media outlets. We are victims of compound ignorance: we cannot base an opinion using information that we are not aware of. We don't know what we don't know.

And this is used to manipulate each and every persons viewpoint. America, via our soft media propaganda, has become a nation guided and fueled not by principle. We are a nation guided by fear.

What this General says is causing a stir here because of one simple thing: it appeals to logic, not instinct. It is up to you to decide which you are using to base your judgement on.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:08 PM
reply to post by schrodingers dog

Of course it's ridiculous, as we've mostly all of us been aware for years

The photos which came out of Abu Gharib -- simultaneous with 'multiculturalism' being foisted on the West in the form of many millions of Muslim migrants

With one side of their faces, our politicians were demonising the very same Muslims they were sending our boys to kill and torture

and through the other side of their mouths, they were screeching about 'racism' and bending over backwards to impose Muslims as our neighbours

They've been having a good old laugh, our political puppets

'Where's Daddy ? '

'He's fighting Evil-Doer Muslim terrorists '

'But Mummy, my teacher told us we can't say anything bad about Muslims, because it's racism '

Anyway, hope you all have a great day. Sun is shining here and I have gardening to do, so see you later

Ps: it's also voting day. The one-headed Puppet Party pretending to be ' Two Party', begging for our votes and all promising they'll do something about the insupportable migration they've been foisting on us for years. LOL. What a joke. The Muslims organised themselves long ago here and now snap their fingers and demand more and more in return for their block-voting-power. NO shortage of mosques here. But then .. the Saudis have full pockets

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:08 PM
reply to post by Dock9

Preaching to the choir here. Of course it's emotive. It's designed to be. Just about every aspect of this movement is. I haven't called it a "mosque" but in quotes since the minute I first heard about this and looked into it and learned it wasn't. AP apparently agrees with me.

But this is off topic. Sorry, Proto.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:09 PM
reply to post by schrodingers dog

I certainly agree with you, and wonder myself how easily people in general, even people who are exposed to much better information through places like ATS fall into that trap…until you stop to think that for so many other unrelated reasons, so many people want a pound of flesh.

Someone’s flesh, anyone’s flesh, as long as it’s alright per authority to drink at that well.

Very similar on the capitol punishment, pedophilia and rape threads, where once the government says someone should be punished posters start inventing twisted barbaric ways to do that that would put an accomplished sadist to shame.

You now have permission to give into your primal animal tendencies and be uncivilized, vengeful and blood thirsty.

I wonder in part if that is because those primal tendencies are normally repressed, and frowned upon except in these permitted cases, or if it’s because a poor quality of life through government and corporate contrivance has simply given so many people so much angst, fear and frustration they normally suppress when a target pops up on the radar they are encouraged to vent it all on, they transfer it and do just that.

Or if it’s a combination of both, normal repressed primal desires, coupled with the extenuating circumstances of having to endure for no valid reason a poor quality of life.

Amazingly the resources for everyone to enjoy a much more enhanced quality of life are literally siphoned off and stolen through these low intensity conflict wars of attrition that require the demonization of a whole nation, culture, political party, or religion.

When nations were smaller often the Kings or Emperors would simply employ everyone in a massive building project to give them a sense of unity pride and direction and make them easier to govern and control, when there was no external threat to the kingdom.

Now that nations are so large, war is pretty much the only way to unite and manipulate people towards a common controllable direction.

Even if that means creating an enemy out of a group, nation, religion, culture or political party that is not normally an enemy, and isn’t really an enemy.

I have to confess I can’t believe that even the members of ATS are so involved in this manipulation now, that it’s impossible to discuss the deeper conspiracy angles, the strategies, the psychology of what’s driving this all, who is really profiting and how they are achieving it.

I find that utterly amazing.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:11 PM
reply to post by Chilled Zen

Distraction?.. yup.

And IMO fake news, a test.. party leaders can see the forest, but want to know: Just how tall are the tress grown of propaganda seeds? planted in official fertilizer? It's a meaningless "hot button" topic that forces people to choose 1 of 2 opinions: propaganda eater or conspiracy theorist mental patient.. red list / blue list... who is a real American that hates properly, and who thinks for themselves.

I find it hard to believe all news isn't contrived when allegedly independent networks competing against each-other magically spam the same story with a slightly different take ...

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:21 PM
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Great post my friend, I have been waiting for a angle to present to people that would appeal more to the intellect and strategy than the raw emotional debate that has been raging for TOO long over this now.

We risk loosing our ability to discuss these things on deeper levels and to truly understand what's going on through real dialouge if we don't start picking apart the aspects individually, and staying focused on them as we do and not letting it degrade into just the often unfounded and poorly based fears of others.

The manipulation that is taking place is on a massive scale that is bound to lead to yet some other massive action on the part of the government if cooler heads prevail.

I sometimes think that our ability to communicate through the internet has created such a vacuum where people have become isolated in their homes, and a rather staid routine and can now truly imagine that these things that aren't reality are, but that no one is noticing what they are saying and it's not effecting the larger situation.

I don't think people really understand that we are all making history each and every day, that this is all real, that what we are involved with today is going to have a legacy tomorrow, and the day after, and for years that come that is going to effect the world and our quality of life in it, and our children's world too.

10 years gone and we are still more or less where we were ten years ago with the raw emotions, still no real answers, yet trillions of dollars poorer with a whole new generation of orphans who are in fact going to be looking to America as the cause of that.

We don't seem to be confronting the real issues here, but simply fighting over baubles, and edifices.

Truly amazing.

Great post my friend.

Thanks for joining in.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 09:20 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

What would an Retired General say if the serbs or Russians Orthodox are allowed to there own cathedrals or church's in the same area?

Do you think obama will approve of that aswell?
If you ask me i think not, he wouldn't allow nor approve of them.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 09:32 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Personally I'm tired of our government, politicians and Leftwing Nuts accommodating these people. When you start shoving crap down the throats of the American people they're going to shove back one day and pull all the stops out. Maybe this alleged patriotic general would rather have the mosque built in the middle of Arlington National Cemetery?

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 09:38 PM

Originally posted by Boomer1941
Maybe this alleged patriotic general would rather have the mosque built in the middle of Arlington National Cemetery?

Sigh ... are you really not aware that there are numerous dead Muslim soldiers buried at ANC? The Crescent above their graves? Don't you know that there are thousands of Muslim American soldiers presently serving their country?

For Shame!

[edit on 20 Aug 2010 by schrodingers dog]

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 09:53 PM

Originally posted by Boomer1941
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Personally I'm tired of our government, politicians and Leftwing Nuts accommodating these people. When you start shoving crap down the throats of the American people they're going to shove back one day and pull all the stops out. Maybe this alleged patriotic general would rather have the mosque built in the middle of Arlington National Cemetery?

Great news all are accomodated equally in the United States to the extent that the constitution allows.

Now here is the Catch 22 the emotionally driven don't quite fathom.

IF there was no war in Afghanistan or Iraq then NO the General wouldn't be worried how to WIN hearts and minds and SAVE AMERICAN LIVES.

So if we called off the war, the General might have an ENTIRELY different position, or then again HE MIGHT NOT.

Since he has pledged to UPHOLD THE CONSITUTION he probably would not.

Of course if there was no war, then many wouldn't be able to envision ALL MUSLIMS as their enemies.

But since there is a war, and U.S. Soldiers, have to convince the people they are partnering with over there, that we are a RESPONSIBLE and FAIR PARTY to do BUSINESS WITH, and TREAT ALL PEOPLE EQUALLY it's a much harder sell, when SOME Americans DON'T WANT to abide by the Constitution and TREAT ALL PEOPLE EQUAL themselves.

So since the Justification for intervention and regime change is a MORAL HIGH GROUND that cause for war doesn't really sell to well, WHEN PEOPLE ACT more radical than they purport the people we are fighting against are.

The most important time to adhere to the constitution is in fact when you don't want to, because that's the only time IT BECOMES EVIDENT people subscribe and ADHERE to the LOFTIER PRINCIPLES they are claiming to have.

There is freedom of religion in this nation. Or would you like to go back to the Colonial Days of America when the Women of Boston convinced the Town's Elders to burn down a catholic church and monestary because they were POSITIVE that Protestant Girls were being kidnapped and forced to convert and become Nuns.

That was later determined upon a COMPLETE investigation to be a hoax, but only AFTER they burn't down the Catholic Church, and Monestary.

So please do understand once you abandon the Consitution ALL religions then become SUBJECT TO PERSECUTION and not just the ones you don't like.

By the way almost 10 years still no Judicial Branch of Government trial or charges regarding 9-11, so if you want Partisan Political Parties determining who is responsible for a crime, that they themselves are benefiting from, well...

Hopefully one day everyone will be able to do the math on this one, BEFORE something burns down.


posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
Muslim Community Center
Keith Olbermann - Special Comment

Video A must watch .... peace

Olbermann...."I could have been a actor but I wound up here".

Maybe so, but listen to what he says.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 10:15 PM
reply to post by js331975

Wow when did Keith Oberman stop being a KTLA Sportscaster?

I finally got a chance to watch it, and I felt it was a very noble presentation of the facts and reason.

I reccomend watching it.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 10:25 PM

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I fear that on an election year, with so many powers with vested interests in populace division, that words of reason such as the general's will fall on mostly deaf ears. Still, I applaud him for stating them.

You humanists are so saccharine.

And again amazingly I find myself at the end of a thread.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by RRokkyy]

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 10:47 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Proto, I'm a bit shocked at your rather middle of the road pov here. It is clear that depleted uranium and 9 years of occupation is the way to win hearts and minds (a CFR catch phrase is there ever was one).

As an astute studier of all things past, when has any "war" won the hearts and minds? War is about submission, occupation is about submission. The reason for this is simple, people simply believe conquering, killing, taking from another secures them better than leaving others alone, so they will take this terrible action. The effort is not for the day, or weeks or even years surrounding the attacking, it is for the their generation down the line. You are aware that many knew the fed killed us when it came into existence, yet a few generations down the line folks honor and laud the fed - less so today then in greenspans heyday.

This silly mosque thing is another in a long line, 2000 year long line, of fake issues to keep the masses angry at each other so they can be provoked to kill others they would not otherwise do. Back to my point, secure people never take, attack, kill another. Only insecure people do and the do it because they thing doing so will secure them. Sadly it has never, ever worked, because we are still doing it. While the general may have a marginal point, he's missing the point of who he works for and their point is simple: we don't want hearts and minds today, we'll get that in two or three generations, what we want now is submission.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 11:06 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The most important thing you should remember is, its the radicals who are pushing for this mosque just to force their ways on us. This has CAIR written all over it with radical Saudis flipping the bill. If this mosque ever gets started then I think someone should make it go boom in the middle of the night.

This is as ignorant as giving them a place to pray in football stadiums. Their is a time and place for everything. If they cant respect that then they obviously don't care about OUR feelings so why should we give a dam about theirs.

Americans have been pushed and aggravated to all hell by many ignorant things in the last ten years or more. We have about had it, if the radical Arabs push this more, then they may feel the American peoples wrath as they snap on all Arabs in this country. Many Arabs here will tell you that they DO NOT support this mosque because they know its a direct provocation by the radicals and all out disrespectful.

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