Retired General Slams NY 'Mosque' Critics

Is it not a Generals job to plan wars, not Mosques?

If and when the General becomes president, then we should listen careful.

Until then, he is just one general amongst many with his own personal opinion.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Is it not a Generals job to plan wars, not Mosques?

If and when the General becomes president, then we should listen careful.

Until then, he is just one general amongst many with his own personal opinion.

That's right let the powers that be make our decisions for us, after all we are the lowly populace who know nothing, it's always better to let our higher ups do it for us, remember your station in life, that would be at the bottom.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Many in Britain considered it a victory when the burka was outlawed. I could go on and on.

What are you talking about? The burka isn't banned in Britain.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
So, can you explain what the actual harm is in someone thinking they've won some sort of victory?

It would be a huge propaganda victory and a huge morale boost for militant Muslims everywhere. Wars are either won when you destroy the enemies ability to fight or when you destroy their will to fight.

You appear to be advocating building up militant Islam's will to fight and acting as if it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Is it not a Generals job to plan wars, not Mosques?

If and when the General becomes president, then we should listen careful.

Until then, he is just one general amongst many with his own personal opinion.

Why would you listen to the President more carefully than your next door neighbor?

Don't you think it's wise to consider everything everyone has to say to the point that you at least understand what they are trying to convey?

It would seem to me now your three critical broken record posts simply saying don't listen to the General's opinion is more born out of a fear, that his opinion is a credible one that many people would consider.

Which is in part why he achieved his rank, because being a leader is all about drawing people to you effectively that will listen to you.

A human beings job is to be respectful of and appreciative of other's right to live there life in peace and prosperity as long as they are not harming you.

So to all those people imagining they are being harmed by this, go down to Federal Court and sue for mental aggravation and damages and try to prove where this Mosque and Community Center has diminished your own quality of life, impacted your ability to earn a living, and to be happy and live a quality life.

When you fail to make your case in a court of law, understand that's why you won't be able to make your case outside of a court of law, except with the agenda driven, politically and religious motivated people, who are only harming themselves in imagining that this is harming them in some way.

Maybe if you spent a little more time imagining how this doesn't have to be a bad thing, instead of imaginging how it has to be a bad thing, NO ONE would be suffering right now needlessly because of imagination.

Originally posted by Aquarius1

That's right let the powers that be make our decisions for us, after all we are the lowly populace who know nothing, it's always better to let our higher ups do it for us, remember your station in life, that would be at the bottom.

You can't have it both ways.

You can't expect everyone to defer to the general and ignore the majority of people who oppose the mosque when it suits you then, argue that the people have no power if the 'powers that be' as you put it, then reflect the opinion of the majority and refuse to allow the mosque to be built.

Your logic is heads you win, tails I lose.

The majority of the people who oppose this community center and even the people who want to put this community center up are either willing or unwilling pawns in a battle between the Zionist neocons and the CFR.

[edit on 8/21/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

So to all those people imagining they are being harmed by this, go down to Federal Court and sue for mental aggravation and damages and try to prove where this Mosque and Community Center has diminished your own quality of life, impacted your ability to earn a living, and to be happy and live a quality life.

When you fail to make your case in a court of law, understand that's why you won't be able to make your case outside of a court of law, except with the agenda driven, politically and religious motivated people, who are only harming themselves in imagining that this is harming them in some way.

Straw man argument...

You then put a John Lennon song on the end of your post. "Imagine all the people..."

My God! Why didn't we think of that before!

if only we had taken the guns off of the tanks and replaced them with speakers we could been blasting the Taliban with Lennon songs advocating peace and love. They would have seen the error of their ways and sat down and had a good old group hug with our soldiers...

Or perhaps not.

What plant are you on Mr. Protoplasmic Traveler?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Aquarius1

That's right let the powers that be make our decisions for us, after all we are the lowly populace who know nothing, it's always better to let our higher ups do it for us, remember your station in life, that would be at the bottom.

You can't have it both ways.

You can't expect everyone to defer to the general and ignore the majority of people who oppose the mosque when it suits you then, argue that the people have no power if the 'powers that be' as you put it, then reflect the opinion of the majority and refuse to allow the mosque to be built.

Your logic is heads you win, tails I lose.

Since when did a majority stop Americans from having their own independent views of dissent.

The majority gets to determine policy on an official level in regards to the Laws of the Land. That has already happened. It's called the 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution. Long upheld.

Now no, being an American is not about adopting the opinion of the majority.

BEING AN AMERICAN IS ABOUT YOUR RIGHT TO DISSENT TO THE OPINION OF THE MAJORITY.

It's about being able to speak freely and FOLLOWING THE LAWS OF THE LAND that are not overturned by opinion polls but in Congress, or on Ballot Initiatives.

So if you want to pretend there is a majority binding in a legal and lawful way, try to get this issue on the ballot in all fifty states to Amment the United States Constitution to strike down freedom of religion.

Good luck with that.

In the meantime ALL Americans are entitled to their opinion, and NO Americans opinion is more binding or valid than any other Americans, and no Group of Americans opinions is more binding no matter how large or small on other Americans or groups until it is passed into law.

America was never and should never be a HERD mentallity where others look aimlessly and blankly to others to form their opinions and perspectives and positions.

What you are advocating is rediculous.

It's also destructive in an even worse way than you imagine a Mosque and Community Center being built is.

When the majority of Americans in fact want to choose to rely on stereotyping, bigotry and xenophobia to start formulating policies that will destroy the nation's TRUE principles, that's when, and especially when, our very way of life then depends on the dissenters speaking up and out against it.



[edit on 21/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
The majority of the people who oppose this community center and even the people who want to put this community center up are either willing or unwilling pawns in a battle between the Zionist neocons and the CFR.

[edit on 8/21/2010 by ~Lucidity]

I think you might be right. Its hard to believe that any Muslim is stupid enough try to build a mosque within 2 blocks of ground zero. It only inflames anti-Muslim sentiments.

On the other hand, it is a widely held belief by Muslims that we are afraid of them. Perhaps they would interpret the building of the ground zero mosque as merely a display of American fear and capitulation?

reply to post by ollncasino


Who says the majority is against building this Culture Center with a Mosque on the top two floors? Where is your proof that this is the case? I know no one who is against building this.

BTW there are no winners or losers, only ignorance by some.

Don't put words in my mouth.

Thank you.

reply to post by ollncasino


Your post once again contradicts and conflicts with your own position. You talk about a war with the Taliban but won't consider the considered oppinions of the Generals and soldiers, some of them participating in this thread?

In fact you are telling people not to consider them.

While simply promoting blind allegiance to a mob mentallity.

If you are that passionate about the issue man-up get yourself in Uniform and go to war.

You have that opportunity to 'serve' your country.

However keep in mind that some posters to this thread have done just that and they have opinions regarding Islam and this issue that are opposite to yours.

The war you want to fight in your mind is not the war taking place in reality.

And it need not be as long as war mongerers and scare mongerers and bigots and xenophobes are called out exactly for what they are.

What plant am I on, it's called the Planet Earth and we all have to share it.

Stop trying to make it a bad place please.

Thanks.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Now no, being an American is not about adopting the opinion of the majority.

BEING AN AMERICAN IS ABOUT YOUR RIGHT TO DISSENT TO THE OPINION OF THE MAJORITY

Agreed.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

So if you want to pretend there is a majority binding in a legal and lawful way, try to get this issue on the ballot in all fifty states to Amment the United States Constitution to strike down freedom of religion.

Another straw man argument...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

In the meantime ALL Americans are entitled to their opinion, and NO Americans opinion is more binding or valid than any other Americans

Including the generals presumably. His opinion is no more valid than anyone else's according to your own logic.

Thanks for conceding that point.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

When the majority of Americans in fact want to choose to rely on stereotyping, bigotry and xenophobia to start formulating policies that will destroy the nation's TRUE principles, that's when, and especially when, our very way of life then depends on the dissenters speaking up and out against it.

Now this is interesting. When 70% of the American people disagree with you then they are bigots and xenophobes?

That isn't going to fly.

Isn't your opnion an inherently illogical position, even a liberal Muslim apologists to hold?

Are you not displaying as elevated a level of bigotry towards people who disagree with you by accusing them of relying on stereotypes, bigotry and xenophobia?

reply to post by ollncasino


Not to say that this is the case, but if 70% of americans are rightwing hate addicts, then I sure hope that 70% get the plauge. I cant stand Nazis as it is, let alone Nazis who control the worlds cheeseburger supply.

Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Who says the majority is against building this Culture Center with a Mosque on the top two floors? Where is your proof that this is the case? I know no one who is against building this.

Erh...

Opinion Polls?

Where have you been?

Go to google and type "Ground Zero Opnion Polls" and hit enter.

Let me know how you get on.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Not to say that this is the case, but if 70% of americans are rightwing hate addicts, then I sure hope that 70% get the plauge. I cant stand Nazis as it is, let alone Nazis who control the worlds cheeseburger supply.

True Pakistani Brit?

Otherwise you must be one of these Liberal apologists for Militant Islam.

I love you guys.

You would make apologises for a man who kept slaves, chopped the heads off of 800 Jews, slept with slave girls and waged violent Jihad.

Sorry, I shouldn't say you would.

You do.

reply to post by ollncasino

Are you not displaying as elevated a level of bigotry towards people who disagree with you by accusing them of relying on stereotypes, bigotry and xenophobia?

No I am calling it like I see it. If you are arguing against the Consitution then no, you aren't interested in American values.

If you are arguing against an entire religion, then yes that makes you a xenophobe.

If you are arguing against an entire race, then that makes you a bigot.

See how that works.

In fact what you are saying is abandon the constitution, decree who can worship when and where, and how, through manipulted popular decree.

Hold wholesale an entire religion to account for the unproven actions of a few.

Don't think independently.

Don't question.

Don't defend the consitution. Don't point out when people are trying to destroy it for the sake of xenophobia, bigorty, and stereotyping.

Some people are going to resist the rise of facism in the nation, and that's just the way it is.

You can call them Muslim appologists, and you can call them terrorist sympathizers, and while you do, you are in fact proving that yes it's xenophobia and bigorty driving such people who make those accusations against those who are determined to uphold our constitutional principles.

You have consitutional remedies, ones you don't want to pursue, you could file a case claiming mental damages, and try to meet that threshold of evidence to find in your favor.

But since it would require the Judiciary overruling the 1st Amendment you know that won't happen.

You could try to put it on a ballot initiative but you won't do that either because you know it could eventually then be used against other religions and groups.

So in reality all you have is a strawman argument for being a lemming and trying to create a herd mentality that thinks in mass along emotional and religious lines instead of intellectually with their heads along constitutional lines.

That is what is giving America a bad name, and your strawman, strawman deflections are just that.

You fear people, you fear people that think differently and independently and will consider all the facts which is why your whole argument boils down to consider nothing but what you say.

That's a lot more dangerous than anything out there, and in fact no one but bigots and xenophobes are going to agree with that.

Thanks.


[edit on 21/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ollncasino


Excuse me, opinion polls mean nothing, anyone can go to google and find a poll to support what they want it to.

The fact that they can afford new construction in the middle of NYC (EXTREMELY pricey per square foot) tells me they can take the high road and build somewhere else.

They would look like the peacemakers. Problem solved, and Fox News has one less story to run 18 hours a day.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
No I am calling it like I see it.

You are showing an extremely high level of intolerance for anyone who disagrees with your 'John Lennon', Oh why can't we all just love each other, eat organic lentils and have a group hug view on reality.

How do the nasty Taliban fit into this Winnie the Pooh reality you have constructed?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
If you are arguing against an entire religion, then yes that makes you a xenophobe.

You don't know much about Islam do you. Try cracking open a Koran. It will surprise you.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
If you are arguing against an entire race, then that makes you a bigot.

Islam is an entire race? Goodness, the Arab Muslims will be most surprised that they are the same race as Indonesian Muslims and central Asian Muslims. Even the Iranians who are Persian will be most surprised.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
See how that works.

Yes I do. You put pen to paper and it kind of runs away with itself until it has no basis in reality. Islam is a whole race...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Hold wholesale an entire religion to account for the unproven actions of a few.

Don't think independently.

Don't question.

Or in your case, don't read the Koran or the Hadiths. In fact, just assume a lot because it fits in with your 'group hug' view of reality.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Some people are going to resist the rise of facism in the nation, and that's just the way it is.

Thank goodness. You have finally seen Militant Islam for what it is. A fascist movement rising in the nation. At last we agree on something.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You can call them Muslim appologists, and you can call them terrorist sympathizers, and while you do, you are in fact proving that yes it's xenophobia and bigorty driving such people who make those accusations against those who are determined to uphold our constitutional principles.

Don't take this as an insult but I think you may just, perhaps, have a few of the tendencies of a Muslim apologist. Of course i could be mistaken.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So in reality all you have is a strawman argument for being a lemming and trying to create a herd mentality that things in mass along emotional and religious lines instead of intellectually with their heads along constitutional lines.

So now people who disagree with you (70% of the US Population) are bigoted, xenophobes who are lemmings and rely on stereotypes?

I haven't left anything out have I?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You fear people, you fear people that think differently and independently and will consider all the facts which is why your whole argument boils down to consider nothing but what you say.

You have neither read the Koran, the Hadiths, nor studied the history of Islam, have you?

I admire your strong faith that Human nature is good (as long as it is a Muslim's human nature) but I am puzzled why you conclude that Muslims are basically a decent lot if you think that 70% of Americans are bigoted, xenophobes who are lemmings and rely on stereotypes.

Yet somehow Muslims are, according to you by implication, clear thinking citizens of the world who could not possibly be bigoted, xenophobes who are lemmings and rely on stereotypes.

How can that be?


[edit on 21-8-2010 by ollncasino]