The Anti-Muslim Threads Are Giving ATS a Bad Name

Originally posted by shamus78
I would like to ask – what is it about Islam that makes some people uncomfortable? I live with two Muslims and have found them to be as normal as anyone else. So what is it that makes people keep posting these types of threads?

Difference in ideology although they share the same root, expansion of Islamic empires during middle ages, jealousy and hatred planted by Christian Institutions to gain continuous support fueled by decades of crusades wars, Muslim extremist retaliation, Western political agenda ( with exception of few countries such as France ), etc.. Let's face it. Christianity and Islam are the 2 biggest religions in this world. Both have been aggressively trying to spread their teaching over the past centuries.

However, we know multi-religion nation can exist. Most Islamic countries in Southeast Asia allow the freedom of religion. Indonesia government, for example, doesn't see inter religion marriage between Muslim and Christian as an issue ( which is forbidden by most Islamic countries ). And they are also having their internal problem with Islamic extremist.

TBH I think, Christianity suffered more criticism than Islam, especially by atheist who base their argument on Christian Institution and Philosophy. Look around Religion Conspiracy Section and Creation vs Evolution threads.

reply to post by inforeal


Wonderfully stated!!

EDIT TO ADD:

Originally posted by EasternShadow
Indonesia government, for example, doesn't see inter religion marriage between Muslim and Christian as an issue ( which is forbidden by most Islamic countries ). And they are also having their internal problem with Islamic extremist.

Another great post with more depth towards why some people perceive the way they do. The problem in Indonesia though isn't just an Islamic extremist one. Indonesia is spread over many islands and onto mainland next to Malaysia. Aceh is a region of Indonesia which follows Islamic scripture very closely, Java is also mostly Muslim but not as much, Bali is mostly Hindu and the many other islands have a variety of practises too.

With the power base being in Bali at the moment many from Java feel they are under-represented and this is sometimes presented in incidences such as the Bali bombings. Whilst the bombers were devout Muslims the problems between Java and Bali aren't only religious differences and the focus of thir actions should be viewed with more angles than the mass media like to present.

-m0r

[edit on 15/8/2010 by m0r1arty]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by shamus78
This has to stop.

What is it with the anti-expression sentiment lately?

THAT has to stop.

I've said it before: if you dislike the topic, don't visit it.

Personally I come to ATS BECAUSE there are so many topics I disagree with. What, should I stomp my feet and demand others not express themselves because I dislike their feelings about certain issues?

Here's an idea: quit telling others what to do. That's one of the biggest problems in the world today: too many anti-freedom squeaky wheels running around.

Might have something to do with our new Supreme Court nominee
saying that some speech should be limited.

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

I think some ppl really like the idea of curbing the 1st amendment
if it can achieve double plus good group think.

Of course this has been going on for some time, and for it to feel
right you just need to get in touch with your inner bird while
you stand in a free speech cage.

en.wikipedia.org...

Those are kinda small and confined so they are working up some
new zones with a lot more room, much more spacious, the
new ones looks to be about 100 miles wide and thousands
of miles long.

rawstory.com...

Rooms for LOTS of ppl in this new zone, thou it has some really
new and interesting rules.

I am sure some moment of national security for the mother land
or the father land or the home land will see this zone needing
to expand to serve and protect us.

Bill hicks sums up what the US has become.



His analysis of the JFK incident is quit telling as well.



[edit on 15-8-2010 by Ex_MislTech]

reply to post by shamus78


It seems lately members are complaining about certain topics being discussed on ATS. I thought this site was open to discussion and opinions on just about anything. The reason I am here! If you truly believe in what you believe a little Anti this or that shouldn't bother you. People are defensive of their beliefs by nature. If you can't handle criticism this isn't the site for you. IMO

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I understood your point. You did good.

I pointed to one group and you saw how quickly the musk oxen surrounded to protect their own. Everyone is against everyone unless you are against them. It's basic human nature.

We just seem to have some overly sensitive members who read something that struck close to home.

I don't care what people are in their daily drummings. We are all just people. If more people started treating each other and themselves on that premesis, we wouldn't even be where we are right now. We wouldn't have to sit here, and speculate whether or not we are going to spend the next 2000 yrs fighting each other in the name of religion, family ties, class, and the list goes on... That my dear friends, would be denying ignorance, and that is what ATS is in it's core.

P.S. Stop putting yourself or others in boxes, stop labelling, stop marking, stop pointing.


Love & Light
Joe

Edit for spelling

[edit on 15/8/10 by JoeSignal]

reply to post by hinky

I'm sure I just confused myself with that one too. Sorry. Thanks for answering me clearly.

Originally posted by shamus78
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

That's what I'm getting at ~Lucidity - where are these feeling coming from?

Is it from the MSM, who we are usually so critical about, knowing they are pushing an agenda?

I love religious discussion, but I like to have some respect for the subject - be it Islam, Christianity or any other religion.

Cheers
Shane

Islamophobia has been on the rise ever since 9/11. I dont remember people having too much of a problem before then. What we have seen is an increase in propaganda against Muslims, much of it manipulated by the msm to reinforce the bad guy image of extremist Islam. Creating the link in peoples brains that all Muslim are terrorists. It makes it a lot easier for our leaders to send soldiers into their lands and kill innocent civillians.

The citizens can have their 2 minutes of hate every day, where they can shake their fist and yell at the muslim terrorists and the Leaders can continue to wage war on the next lot of Muslims the Iranians.

Don't forget, whenever you watch the TV news and a muslim comes on, you must shake your fist and yell "Bloody Muslims" . You must also love "Big Brother"

dp

[edit on 15-8-2010 by woodwardjnr]

Originally posted by shamus78
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

That's what I'm getting at ~Lucidity - where are these feeling coming from?

Is it from the MSM, who we are usually so critical about, knowing they are pushing an agenda?

I love religious discussion, but I like to have some respect for the subject - be it Islam, Christianity or any other religion.

Cheers
Shane

Your kidding right? You want censorship, You want nothing bad to be posted about Islam when all over the net let alone the MSM you can find the intolerance and evils of it.

Have you read the Koran, I doubt you understood any of it if you did. Its loaded with excuses to kill in the name of Allah and who Mohammad killed in his name to justify it.

Koran 8:65 Koran 8:65
"O Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you 20 steadfast,they will overcome 200 and if there be of you a 100, they shall overcome a 1000, because the disbelievers are a folk without intelligence"

This Sura clearly exposes Islam to be a religion that not only encourages violence but actually makes it a sacred duty for Muslims to kill anyone who does not believe in the Muslim version of religion.

www.conspiracycafe.net...

As a matter of fact.

Today I was confronted with Christianity. Sunday.

I've grown up in a multi cultural neighborhood.
I never ever had a problem with a Muslim which I did not experience with a non Muslim.

I spend several years with actual Muslims in my class. Yeah...
Never caused any problems.

Some dude decided that Sunday is the day I'm not supposed to work. This alone has a far greater influence on my life then any Muslim ever had.

The US acts like they are the biggest terrorist organization in the world.
I would say they are also the biggest cause for the Muslim terrorist and their Jihad against the west. They are also home to large groups of zionists Jews an Fundamental Christians. They scare me more then Muslims do actually.

I agree with the point you are trying to make.

It would help a lot when threads like these will be placed neutral without picking sides
The OP can give his own opinion in a reply.

reply to post by JoeSignal

Well, the grassroots info I get from Christian sources tells me it's all unfair.
We may not build churches or missionize their countries, but they do it in ours. How many mosques and Korans have been sponsered by Saudi Arabia in the West?
If I took a collection now for a Christian centre or church to be built in Iran/Saudi Arabia/Pakistan would it be allowed?
To my knowledge they punish people for apostasy.

Then, I've always thought that Jewish-Muslim relations were always smooth before 1948.
But:

A Jewish poet , K'b Bin al-Ashraf, whose poems grieved for the victims of the Muslim assassins was treacherously slain...Next a Jewish merchant, Ibn Sunayna, was murdered by one of Muhammed's disciples...then a prominent elderly Jewish merchant, Abu Rafi was hacked to death by six Muslims while he slept in his bed ... Muhammed arranged for practically all the Jews living in Arabia to either be exiled or killed...the Jews of Banu Nadir were slaughtered by the Muslims two years later in their new home.

Peter Hammond (2005): "Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The historical roots and contemporary threat". Christian Liberty Books, p. 64.

Rather sickeningly it claims that the six Muslims argued over whose blade had killed the Jewish merchant - turns out it was the one with food still on it.

Why did I always learn that Islam was enlightened and tolerant, yet, now for the first time I hear of the Pact of Umar, which seemed to make Europeans little more than slaves?
I'm not pro or anti anything, I'm just getting very confused.
And in that confusion, I doubt very much that Western conspiracies can change Islam in any significant way.
Exactly what would change about it, if all Western business was withdrawn?

[edit on 15-8-2010 by halfoldman]

ATS denies ingnorance, not the ingnorant.
This IS the proper venue for all discussions whether they are Pro- or Anti- anything.
True freedom of speech to all people of Earth.
Don't hate the Haters, or you will become one.

I'm sorry this post is full of one liners, but thats where my head is today.

reply to post by halfoldman


Who cares if they don't let people build churches but we allow mosques? that argument is juvenile and has more holes in it than a sieve if im being honest.

reply to post by shamus78


Oh boy...another lib posting a"gathering together to feel comfortable" thread...and from the most distant country on earth from the threat?
Shame on you...

reply to post by Solomons

Indeed, why are they being so juvenile?
So it's OK for them to be childish.
If Western countries applied those standards it would be seen as not "juvenile" at all, but the height of racism.
So are you saying we shouldn't expect anything better? Isn't that also racist?
And why should - even nominal Christians - in Western countries not care?
Isn't spreading one religion over another by missionaries (which is not allowed to equally spread in any form in return) colonialism?



[edit on 15-8-2010 by halfoldman]

ATS is just fine. I like it just the way it is. If a forum gets too heated don't frequent it.

I grew up outside of Chicago, a real melting pot. Everyone trash talked the other various ethnic groups equally and regularly.

In my family alone we represent more than a few of the most hated/talked about people. My hubby is a Serb, I'm Mexican American/Native American/Irish. So I say bring it on certainly I've heard worse.

You know I played cowboys & Indians when I was a kid. I took my turn at being the cowboy the same as everybody else. I'm darker than most Muslims I've seen and often a shade darker than some African Americans. People need to stop taking themselves so seriously. You can read anything you want into most comments. If you're looking to be offended chances are you'll find something.

I would get flamed if I recounted all the slang names given to the ethnic people back home we each had one. We put that all aside when we showed up at each others weddings/birthdays/funerals etc. Sure the next day life went back to normal but for one day we were just people having fun and enjoying each others company. In spite of our differences and down right dislikes we formed a bond as Americans.

It seems if everyone gets picked on equally it's not so bad. It's hard to explain if you haven't lived it. We got used to strangers making obscene comments about our mothers. We flung them right back and somehow it all worked. We came together when it counted. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

I think too many Muslim apologist threads, like this one, give ATS a bad name.

Ignoring evil is not denying ignorance, it is embracing it.

reply to post by shamus78


I can agree with you to a certain extent. I'm European but have grown up in the United States and have lived in quite a few countries including M.E. countries, Asia and of course, European countries. I like to think this gives me a unique perspective on various things, one being the "issue" with Islam.

Too many people blindly hold the PC viewpoint close to their heart, defending anyone who's a minority despite the facts, just because they're the minority. Like Islam.

Although I don't believe everyone who is Muslim hates Christians or "the west", a vast majority does. Even those who've immigrated to the west.

I never batted an eye towards Islam or any other religion for that matter before I moved to Europe. That's when I was slapped in the face with the harsh reality, we're not living in a rosy colored world as we'd like to think.

Truth is, the world is anything but politically correct. And many people can't understand that because the various issues going on abroad hasn't touched home.

I came to Norway a few years ago from the United States. I was going to become an architect. Of course, those plans fell through, but that's not the point. Point is, when I came here, the very first party I was invited to I was ridiculed by a couple of Arabic looking guys saying, "Oh, you're American? How did you like the planes in the twin towers?" They said a ton more, but I was out numbered and I just am not the kind of guy to fight over words. However, it was hurtful.

I'm in the camp that doesn't believe the official 911 story. I don't think Islam hit the towers, but that doesn't really matter seeing how many Muslims out there uses 911 as a battle cry, condones it etc. I was however touched by Iran when they supported the United States during those hard times.

But still, many Muslims out there believed Islam was responsible. They enjoy that fact, and in my opinion that's just as good as the act itself. In my time abroad, if I had to put numbers on it, for every 20 Muslims I've met, 2 to 3 who have been moderate.

I welcome you to come to Oslo and act like an American tourist. I welcome you to visit youtube and do a search for "riots in Oslo" and even "Islamic riots in Sweden".

The truth isn't politically correct, and the sooner we can ditch those rose tinted glasses and see the truth in what's going on, the better we can deal with the situation.

And did you ever think, that maybe just MAYBE there might really be a problem with Islam? And that the only outlet many of us have without having to be ridiculed for being "intolerant" or "racist" or a plethora of other names is to discuss it on ATS?

I love my fellow man, I love Africans, Arabs, Whites, Orientals, Asians etc. We're all one. However, when there is an issue as serious as Islam, I will make my point of view known. (I mean, plenty of ATS members dish crap out against Christianity, but that's OK right?) I don't care what anyone calls me. I'm not gonna be silenced by some liberals who just can't understand that the truth won't always conform to their points of view.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
SF for you OP!! I 100% agree.

The funny thing is, those racists and bigots are now using a new tactic. Whenever they post something racist and you point it out, they use a "lol, racecard, you can't do that" answer. That's like a proven murder saying "you can't call me a murderer".

I'm seeing a dangerous development in the US. Before WW2 broke out, the Germans were suffering economically, people were losing their jobs, people were poor after WW1, and guess what...they started looking for someone to blame, and found the Jews.

Something very similar can be seen in the US now. The economy's still crumbling, people are losing their jobs, and guess what...they too are looking for someone to blame. Over the last 12-24mo, the amount of racism towards Mexicans and Muslims has increase substantially! For years people built mosques in the US and it wasn't a problem, but suddenly people go all nuts. And the right-wing media, mostly FOX "News", is fueling this racist fire.

People are totally irrational. They say it's insensitive building a mosque on GZ, but first of all, the proposed location is 2 blocks away from GZ and NOT on GZ. And secondly, by saying it's insensitive to build that mosque, they are in fact insensitive themselves because they imply that ALL MUSLIMS are bad, evil, and terrorists.

If are a racist and bigot, YOU ARE NOT A GOOD AMERICAN!! The whole country was founded on principles of FREEDOM and LIBERTIES, and that includes religious freedom. The second you oppose that by being a bigot, you are directly opposing US core values.

You have summed up the situation perfectly. Unfortunately it's not just ATS, it's all the social networks. And it's not just the USA, it's worldwide.