The Anti-Muslim Threads Are Giving ATS a Bad Name

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

Thanks for taking the time to check ot those sources, I actually starred both of your replys, excellent work........But I don't know about talking to yourself like that....... ????

Doesn't everyone talk to themselves?

I am always open-minded when it comes to considering what others have to say. I will check out other people's sources, ATS can be as much a cooperative effort as it can be an adversarial one at times. Ideally we are all here to learn from each other.

My positions are never set in stone, just my desire to base them on the highest quality of information there is, is set in stone.

Tracking down the real documents wasn't hard once there was a case number.

What disappointed me in most of the sources you provided is they should have been getting their information from the source too, the Appeals Court Decision, yet they made no reference or link to it.

As a conspiracy theorists the things people aren’t sharing become as important and often more important than the things people are sharing.

Going straight to the source of the information, the actual Court Documents without the emotions and opinions and editorials involved in blogs and news media reports will get you the facts as they were presented in a court of law by people under penalty of perjury and sworn oath.

By the way our courts are also religious courts, as you to have to swear an oath to God and promise to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Ultimately it is God that is the source of the court’s power based on divine rights of kings (Roman) and Talmudic law. That is why the courts will rule differently sometimes too when it comes to deeply religious people. The courts do view religious laws as valid as long as they don’t interfere with the laws of the land (King).

This is also why the State will accept Talmudic Courts and Sharia Courts rulings on divorce and property dispersal as valid as long as neither party chooses to appeal using the Laws of the Land.

Ultimately our whole current system is based on God primarily Judean-Christian concepts and laws, which is why oaths to God are made by public officials, pledges to God in our Pledge of Allegiance, and In God we Trust on our currency.

Make no mistake about that Religious based laws have far more to do with how our current system works than people typically imagine.

The truth is that inflammatory news stories and discussion boards don’t actually invite or encourage moderate Muslims to be very trusting when it comes to reaching out and opening a dialogue with people who are often disparaging them in ways that aren’t really based on their own personal actions or views.

So moderates are needed on both sides.

I do feel the vast majority of Muslims are moderate, they go to work, they pay their taxes, they typically seek out higher education or open their own businesses, and the ones that immigrate here are looking for the most part to escape the poverty, violence, and chauvinism in the Middle East.

People are a product of their environment though, and it’s usually the second or third generation immigrant of any nationality or religion that becomes completely Americanized.

I do believe the prevailing attitude of most Muslims is to simply keep to themselves and their own communities because of the uninviting atmosphere the press and bloggers create.

I do believe that like most of us, they simply want to go to work, keep a roof over their head, take care of and feed their families and live a law abiding peaceful life.

I know when I read on CNN early this year that Muslims in the United States were generally sad on Eid their most important Holiday that coincides with Jewish New Years that it isn’t celebrated universally here, and lacks the same festivity and commodity it does in Muslim nations, I decided to visit all the Muslim shopkeepers and some Muslim clients I had to give them fruits and nuts and wish them Happy Eid. They were astounded and so appreciative and gracious. I was nervous as heck about doing it, because I really didn’t know how I would be received. They all gave me gifts in return, and many of them said the nicest Eid gift they got was a non-Muslim American just recognizing them and their Holiday.

I published a Thread about it here on ATS and encouraged others to do so. A couple of the Jewish members complained to me privately that they felt at a disadvantage because their Holidays weren’t as ‘cool’ as Christmas and Eid and didn’t have that kind of festivity, so I made it a point then too to say Happy New Years to all the Jewish people out on the streets that day too, and I live within blocks of a major Ashkenazi and small Sephardic Temple so there are lots and lots of Jews in my neighborhood out and about.

They of course were all thrilled too, that a non-Jew was taking time to wish them Happy New Years.

I even spied a couple of Jews wishing Muslims happy Eid, and Muslims wishing Jews Happy New Years.

Long and short of it, it is our house; it’s up to us how welcoming we want it to be for them.

I will say this though building bridges has a lot more rewards than burning them.

Good job on staying focused on trying to find a good source for the story. I really enjoyed reading the Court Documents. Thanks.



[edit on 19/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


How could anyone with an an Obama avatar get 30 stars?

Is it true? Is Obama really a Muslim?

i once had a conversation with a muslim, and i asked him the question - is islam a peaceful religion
he replied - islam is peaceful, but if you "push it", muslims will retaliate

the meaning of "push it"
muslims desire to spread islam all over the world. If you resist, you would be "pushing it", and then muslims would deem it legitimate for themselves to use force

in countries where islam is a minority, muslims are permitted to get on a loudspeaker at 5 am in the morning and pray - There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger
why don't you try going to a muslim country and scream "there is no god but buddha/jesus/krishna. Watch what happens.

reply to post by shamus78


I've only recently joined ATS - But have read through it from time to time, this is not a new occurance - and it should be said that ATS is always a reflection of what society is facing. At the moment the Presidency is under question (possibly witchhunting spread by the South) - Ground zero is open to violation - Violation is especially chosen to describe the builing of a mosque - because Violated is what it does to those who lost families because of the preachings of this religion - Yes all over the world there are moslems - No Christians are attacking them, not in Spain, not in Australia - But they constantly attack us - We discuss yes, and there's lots to discuss, but we don't condone mass killings of Moslems, it seems as though God has that option - the thread below struck me as the most sublime yet truthful - I'm adding Pakistan to that -
www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=Loosh

reply to post by NumeroUnox1


Islam recognized Jesus as The Messenger of God. As for the idea of "Islam is the 'Synagoue of Satan'", I won't waste my time over some 'words' which is dubious with it's authenticity nature. The Muslim retaliate only if you attack first. The Jihad is meant to hold oneself. One should defend oneself if threaten. An act to defend against the so-called crusade by Pope Alexander II in 1063 AD. Of course, any fanatics can use it to justify their course and ignore other important aspect of the teaching which require further understanding. But hey, who are we to condemn Pope Alexander II when we weren't even born at that time? The point is that the Christians is not Roman Catholics ONLY just as Islam is not Shia ONLY. The Protestant, the Anglican, the Orthodox and others would care less of what the Catholics called for crusade now day. And of course you do aware about it and so does George W. Bush. Thus you can't use Christianity dogma to cover up military agenda and Oil interest at Middle East. You have to use other excuse to gain support from American citizen and you know what it is already. The Muslims.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

Originally posted by shamus78
The Anti-Muslim Threads Are Giving ATS a Bad Name

I think all of the 'Politically Correct' attempts by liberal apologists for militant Islam to stifle debate are giving ATS a bad name.

To OP, you really wanted some flags didn't you?

The anti-religous threads are giving ATS a bad name, is that what you wanted me to say? Or perhaps, the anti-christian threads?

Please excuse me if I'm being overly suspicious. The world has caused me to be that way (commies - outside factors can be responsible for how one feels - It's not always a personality fault).

ok muslim bashing is giving ats a bad name and i dont wanna see it taken of the net
but they hav no right to cum to our country spreading hate messages to the public burning our flags
there infiltrating the country and the goverment dont care as long as ther paying taxes
my cuzen died in afgahnistan not because he liked killing things or because
he had no other choice he was the rare soldier that believed it could become a great nation under the right leader ship and was repaid in full
death
dont muslim bash on the net
straight to ther face

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
Western Cultural Imperialism is just as much of a threat to Muslim women as misguided traditions that have nothing to do with contemporary secularist Islam.

.

That's a sweeping statement. Care to back it up with facts?

I don't know about anyone else here but I'm really tired of getting this muslim crap shoved down my throat everytime I turn on the TV, read a newspaper or go online. I refuse to accommodate them anymore.

This is why.....

8/2/11 "Hundreds of Islamic hard-liners stormed a courthouse and set two churches on fire in central Indonesia to protest what they considered a lenient sentence for a Christian man convicted of blaspheming Islam. The 58-year-old Antonius Richmond Bawengan was found guilty of distributing books and leaflets that "spread hatred about Islam" and sentenced to five years for blasphemy. Islamic hard-liners shouted during the rioting that the man should have received the death penalty. The mob set two churches on fire and threw rocks at a third. They also torched a police truck. "

This is why...!!!!

good post there was was one point where i thought that ATS was full of anti muslims. But theres some hope here yet

There seem to be two threads going on here. One is the issue of ATS' good name. I assume its getting a bad name in some minds, or the topic wouldn't have come up. My questions are "Whose minds are getting this bad impression, and does that hurt ATS?"

The second thread seems to be "Islam (or Muslims) is a threat, pro or con?" It seems to me that the most helpful discussion would be based on examing Islam, not Muslims. Of course some members of any group are bad. I'd like to know if Islam helps people go bad or tends to amplify existing "badness," or whether Islam is thoroughly good and brings about holiness in those who follow its teachings most closely?

On a side note, do we even have agreement on what Islam is? I can take "Islam says this. No it doesn't, it means this." so many dozen times.

I am simple-minded, can we clarify these issues?

People actually thought this was the reason.

Take a look at all of the end of the world threads, that alone has given this site a bad name.

I'm not a religious person at all because of my own beliefs.

There is religious hate spread on this site, just take some time to look around on here and it will be obvious. It doesn't matter what religion you follow because they hate equally on this site.

reply to post by topdog30


Dear Topdog,

I'm assuming your post was meant for me. In that case I can see where a website full of hate would tend to drive away present and future members until there was nothing left but the screaming. That would hurt ATS in my eyes.

I'm looking for clarity and information, not debater's tricks and verbal violence.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by topdog30

 

Dear Topdog,

I'm assuming your post was meant for me. In that case I can see where a website full of hate would tend to drive away present and future members until there was nothing left but the screaming. That would hurt ATS in my eyes.

I'm looking for clarity and information, not debater's tricks and verbal violence.

Charles1952,

My post wasn't meant for any one person, sorry if you felt I attacked you, I was not. My post was just my general observation of what I have seen on here.

thank you for the thread. i am amazed at how many ats members have jumped on the anti muslim wagon. it really is sad. i thought ats was meant to deny ignorace not embrace it.

kx

Dear Topdog,

Clearly, I have to work on my communication skills. I didn't take any offense at anything you said. Yours was a fine post.

What I took from your post was that there was a lot of hate towards religion here, and the end-of-the-worlders weren't helping. That led me to think that if ATS became a site with only hating and end-of-the-worlders, it would be hurt.

I would like to know what you thought about the other issues I posted, though.

(By the way, what's with the w and k with numbers under our names? Are they important?)

How long ago was this thread made ? yup a long time ago . Its a phase some said but the muslim threads are as numerous as back then .
When i joined ats i thought wed be able to look past issues that are just there to divide but i was wrong .
There are great threads on ats but too often they get hijacked by those who wish to only focus on race or religion . This forum is no different to the world we try to escape by coming here . I hope that something will happen to unite us all but i fear people are becoming more divided and isolated .
Read protos post , realise sometimes it takes an act of kindness to break the ice . we are all human who want the best for our kids and we are all humans who bleed and fear death.

United we stand Divided we fall .

Originally posted by daggyz
This is why.....

8/2/11 "Hundreds of Islamic hard-liners stormed a courthouse and set two churches on fire in central Indonesia to protest what they considered a lenient sentence for a Christian man convicted of blaspheming Islam. The 58-year-old Antonius Richmond Bawengan was found guilty of distributing books and leaflets that "spread hatred about Islam" and sentenced to five years for blasphemy. Islamic hard-liners shouted during the rioting that the man should have received the death penalty. The mob set two churches on fire and threw rocks at a third. They also torched a police truck. "

This is why...!!!!

Somebody made a breakdown of islam and its effect on a given country. Strangely, the page dissapeared by the time it took me to post this reply, so I can't provide the link.

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part being regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world. When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and ***ya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.