i cant even speak..after watching this

Realities of war, sadly!! And for what??? This whole damn war started because of the paranoia of a military leader (Bush) and the unquenchable need for cheap oil. The blood of children and innocent people are paying the ultimate price so some people can drive their oversized Hummers with USA stickers. Oh, and so that Halliburton can make even more money through blood of innocent people. Totally worth it, right??

DISGUSTING!!

[edit on 14-8-2010 by MrXYZ]

As of April 2010: 95,888 to 104,595 Iraqi civilian deaths.
As of May 28, 2010: 4,404 US troop death while 31,827 wounded in action.

en.wikipedia.org...

How many more death before this is over? When will you guys ( US soldiers, Politician and Corporates ) going to learn something? You guys lost the war in tropical jungle before ( Vietnam ) and you guys are losing the war in desert now ( Iraq ).

Maybe this will help remind you guys something:

"You can kill ten of my men for every one I kill of yours…But even at these odds you will lose and I will win."

Ho Chi Minh

en.wikipedia.org...

You can't fight nationalism with weapon. Face it. Leave now and let the country heal itself.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

Originally posted by Section31
Saddam was a military tyrant, and Osama killed 3,000+ people on 9/11/2001.

I suggest you research how a CIA-organized coup assassinated the anti-corporatist popular leader of Iraq in order to install and militarise the Bath Party tyrant. Regime Change: How the CIA put Saddam's Party in Power

I also suggest you look for hard evidence to support your belief that Osama Bin Laden orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. In 2008 the White House demoted him from 9/11 mastermind status and the FBI admits it has No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.

I would suggest many other lines of enquiry but, as you say:

Originally posted by Section31
I don't care about anyone's theories or counter-arguments on what I just said, and I am not going to respond to anyone who thinks otherwise.

Your wrong-headedness is depressing but I can't help admiring your honestly stated determination to remain that way.


[edit on 14-8-2010 by EvilAxis]

reply to post by EvilAxis


Some people look at politics like religion. They're so brainwashed, literally nothing will convince them of anything they don't wanna believe in...not even plain hard facts. Nothing but pure paranoia and fear mongering indoctrinated by too many hours of FOX "News"...and probably a unhealthy portion of racism.

The problem is that our western society in an empire. We are all part of that empire, doing our job to keep it up and running.

The US have spend more money in the army then any other nation. They provide the force to protect, expand and consolidate power.

The only thing we could do right, is leave the area

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger

Originally posted by Section31

Did we belong in Afghanistan after 9/11/2001? Absolutely, 100% Yes. I don't care about what type of propaganda you all heard, but the facts are as light and blue as the day.

When it comes to the war on Iraq... It does not matter if Bush lied to us or not. Saddam's role model was noted as being Joseph Starlin. Everything Saddam had done over the years was in reflection of his hero. If an Iraqi spoke out against their leader, Saddam would have them publicly hanged. He also use to test chemical weapons on his people.


I don't like how people are addressing the United States military in these forums, and I ask you all to give them your respect.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Section31]

Amen 31. BTW: I got a kick-ass .gif for section 31 of Enterprise if you want to take a look at it, pm me.

I have to disagree with the prior poster. Although he makes some very good points concerning the wars in Afghanistan then and now, based on all the evidence that is now available to us, the impetus for making war against Iraq now seems to have been discredited as an utter pack of lies which were very likely just 'invented' by our respective security services (I regret to say that I do not think that even they can have much credibility -they have no oversight, admittedly with good reason, and as such, how can one possible verify the truthfulness of any of the information that issues forth from them?). I used to support the Iraq war, having been once in total accord with the decision to remove a very brutish man from power.

However, as I grew older, and became more informed (and I suppose, rather eye-openingly took a course in International law last year), it became blatantly obvious to me that a man which the United States had literally supplied with weapons for the sole purpose of making war with Iran (as I suppose the Americans were rather perturbed by the possible destabilising effects of a strong, Shia-majority country in the Gulf), and yet 15 years later, we managed to paint this man as the modern successor to Hitler and the Nazi party in brutality and totalitarianism. Whilst I am in now way a 'western-apologist', it shocks me that even I was to thoroughly ignorant of modern history to fail to realize the utter absurdity of the 'moral' impetus for War.

Furthermore, as even our governments in the West will openly state (as it is a settled matter of international law - place as much importance on that as you wish, I suppose haha, as the ICJ certainly won't go enforcing anything anytime soon) that, no matter how barbaric a regime or how morally justified action against another nation is, the Sovereignty of nations is something which is sacrosanct in the international arena; just as we would expect every other nation on earth to respect our rights to sovereignty (which is not be equated with political freedom, I should add), so we are expected to reciprocate that respect. Unfortunately, what happens too often with America (though I love thee, far too often in your recent history has foreign policy been swayed by business interests) is that we rather see a case of the kettle calling the pot black. For all the anti-American rhetoric you need (albeit with solid legal evidence to back it up), I urge you to read the ICJ judgment in 'Paramilitary Actions in and Against Nicaragua; Nicaragua v USA).

Furthermore, much though alot of people do subscribe to the view that people in the military are all baby-killers or whatever other nonsense, I do not think that simply by virtue of serving in uniform you immediately command and deserve the unflinching respect of all individuals. Although I was myself in the ROTC and fully intend to serve at some point later in my life, the liberties that such soldiers are, apparently, dying to safeguard are, albeit ironically, exactly those liberties which allow our citizenry to express opinion

Originally posted by EvilAxis

Originally posted by Section31
Saddam was a military tyrant, and Osama killed 3,000+ people on 9/11/2001.

I also suggest you look for hard evidence to support your belief that Osama Bin Laden orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. In 2008 the White House demoted him from 9/11 mastermind status and the FBI admits it has No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.



[edit on 14-8-2010 by EvilAxis]

Is this true? I have never before heard that, and am amazed that it is so (I do not doubt the veracity of your statements, I am just absolutely amazed that this is not yet common knowledge!).

With regards to the MSM for refusing to report the facts.

People, please stop the fighting over this topic. The fact is this soldier is doing something about what he believes in, he went public and to do what he is doing is extremely brave. To the anti war movement, I know and feel your pain because I see what you see. To my fellow soldiers I feel your pain too cause I've been there. To parents who have lost, I can only imagine your pain, cause I'm a parent as well (referring to all
victims, this goes for American, Afgan, Iraqi, Jew, Iranian and on and on)


We all can go back and forth, but the fact remains both sides are losing so much; young, old and innocent.

People, there are groups and within those groups, there are people with bad characters, they've lost their morality, they are quick to judge, and its their actions that make their bad character evident (i.e. the soldier in the video who made poor comments about bringing children to war, and the eager requests for permission to shoot the van (this mans character doesnt speak for all US Military)..
bad priests who have abused their position (these bad priests shouldn't wash out ALL priests).. people who believe in the bible but are quick to turn their back or point a finger (not all beleivers of the bible are like this).. athletes who have no humility (not all athletes lack humility)... ceo's who could care less about what they sell to us... Dr's who push certain drugs onto their patience for profit... BUT AGAIN these certain types of people shouldn't wash out the good ones... the list of groups goes on... a-holes who you work with who are quick to throw you under the bus so they can get ahead.. politicians who lose site of the common good and are taken over by greed.. athiests who are quick to bash a believer.. people who rant about politics, but dont vote under the belief that voting is pointless...and the list of groups goes on and on...

To my fellow soldiers, please dont attack this guy, he isnt a traitor, he is only sharing his experience and it hurt him real bad, it is evident he is hurting. This whole thing about being hard..suck it up and drive on didnt work for him, that's all, no more no less.

To the anti war folks, you have no idea what would happen if discipline was missing in battle, meaning, soldiers do what they are ordered to do, please stop calling your fellow country man/woman sheep. If you have a job and work for somebody/company, do you do what you are told, I bet yes. If you own a company, your told what to do by your customers, right? You are no sheep in my eyes, you are contributing for one purpose and that is for a goal,project,mission to be successful.

So what ever it is you subscribe to: God, Mohammed, Celestial stars/planets, positive thinking, trees, earth, one spirit, whatever... Pray for our fellow man, enemy or not. Pray for the brave, for the lost, for the broken hearted, for your fellow human being, for your family and country....

This soldier is doing something about he believes is wrong, dont bash him for it. The anti war movement is doing what they believe in, don't bash them for it, the pro war people are doing what they believe in, don't bash them for it.

My fellow ATSers, we are better than this. Somewhere along the way, we've put our minds on idle and have allowed others to take it for a while.. The who.what.when.where.how is what we are stuck on. Put your belief into action, but don't bash, back your # up with facts and let the facts run the show.. Inundate your local, state and federal officials with hand written letters, wouldn't that be a good start? No need to bash. You have a belief and if I disagree I for sure wont bash you for it, and I can still have a beer with you.

in this video do you know what i see any of you, i dont see the enemy, i dont see arabs, muslims, insurgents, or terrorists what i see are human beings that should not die a violent death if you can not see the fundemental difference between all those things i listed then you are truly lost and there is nothing you can do, what they are doing is wrong but so are the things we are doing two wrongs dont make a right, we kill them they kill us where does that leave us?

It is easy to view this clip edited with all sorts of eyes. Lets say anything you need to approve your agenda.lets say anything you need to prove your religion. Lets say anything you need to prove your politics.Lets say I can edit this video to make you believe anything.
The facts remain.
View the unedited footage.

Originally posted by Eldix
You know what, I pray to god, every god of every religion, that there is a draft. When you sheltered bastards get over there and get killed on the first day because you're too ignorant and spoiled to realize what the real world is like outside of America, I'll sit and laugh, because thats exactly what you deserve.....

Yes and we know what some of the alternatives may be to disobeying the draft or refusing to go and kill women and children, as these poor Seventh Day Adventist saps discovered during the Vietnam war.

sorry - double post


[edit on 14-8-2010 by Golden Rule]

@ OP

Sir/Madam,

I would greatly appreciate a response regarding what is/has being posted rather than hibernating. I assumed that with so many responses that you would have already interacted. No ? Yes ? ,

edit:

Just so we don't confuse the obvious here.








Close your eyes and open your ears.

lower vid, at 5:07 to the left and for the record, the current post replier poster was physically there, so i do stress extreme caution before responding.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by tristar]

[edit on 14-8-2010 by tristar]

Originally posted by Eldix
You know what, I pray to god, every god of every religion.

You cover all God?You have enough time to pray to all gods? Don't you have a job? I can admire someone who has enough time to worship all gods and doesn't have a day job.

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by Reign02

 

I have read your last post and disagree with it. The Apache video isn't as cut and dry as you think. Does it show the true horror of war? Yes and the rules of engagement at that time are questionable. And for the remark about bad parenting and you shouldn't take your kids into a war zone. The whole country is a war zone. The gunning down of that van is perhaps the most damning part of the video. No hostility was shown by the driver nor its occupants.

Turn this around. What if there were an Iraqi occupation forces stationed in our cities, your town too. Through either misunderstandings or fearful violence your family, son, daughter, mother, father or someone that meant something to you was killed. Someone that wasn't involved in the fight. You can't tell me with a straight honest face that you wouldn't begin to hate the occupiers. You know it, I know it.

These 2 wars are a no-win scenario for the troops and our govt. But my guess is the geopolitical positioning and the money business in war contracts trump common sense. We will leave Iraq and Afghanistan eventually. And because we handled it wrong, we will have more enemies than new aliiances. We will one day be friends with all Muslim nations and they will be friends with us. We will come to tolerate their religion and they ours. The hate mentioned in this thread is not one that is born from people's hearts, but from the greed of war.

There has been harm done on both sides, but the sooner we work toward peace the better. The people here that have no faith in peace, have no faith in their god.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


thanks for your post it broke up the monotony of polarizing debate from those who seem to speak from 'talking points' due to fear / vested interest / corruption / mental lameness... whatever

dont know if I can agree with that alien off-world war.. its bigger than I am. I hold to my God because I feel when I pray that someone is there and He has been helpful when I remember to ask sincerely.. and do my end of the deal. I've also had some miracles of healing. call me dependent if ya want.

the idea of aliens directing these guys who foment / finance the racket known as perpetual war is possible, I spose... If it turns out to be the reality, and a bad thing, then I guess I get to have an out of body experience... ha!

What I can definitely see is the oft-repeated corporate interest in threatening or using the persuasion of invasion to countries who do not roll over on their people by colluding with the Imperial corporate globetrotters.

Just look at Gen Smedley (USMC) and what he had to say after serving through 3 decades... I think that is where the saying "War is a Racket" came from...

We never learn, eh?


[edit on 15-8-2010 by AntiShyster]

Originally posted by Tripple_Helix
I don't get it. How the hell do these people tolerate American soldiers walking in their streets with guns, shooting at children?! I don't see any sense in this, how are they even allowed to be there? Why is it being tolerated?

If you are one of those people, what can you do about it? You live in a dirt-floored hovel and your only weapon is maybe a knife, and here come a dozen heavily armed and armored troops demanding to search your home. What are you going to do about it? Even if you had a gun, what could you do? Even if you managed to shoot one of them in the throat or the leg (as the snipers do), you would at most kill or wound one soldier before the rest gunned you and your family down. Have 10 friends with you all with guns? Guess what, there are THOUSANDS of troops just down the road ready to come slay you if you fire at them. Have 100 friends with guns? Airstrike...Boom. There goes your entire village.

So that is the answer to how they "tolerate" soldiers in their streets. They are powerless to stop them. Not saying it's right or anything else, just saying that's how it is.

Speaking out against war on both sides is a first step. The next step is to try to get everyone to throw down their swords. A much longer, harder step.

How do you decide it is muslims bombing muslims , when for example you have agencies like the UK SAS that have dressed up as the indigenous population in nations like the Sudan and Kenya , and have planted explosives for the sole purpose of appearing to be one faction attacking another to create internal discord and cross and extra-faction disharmony ?

And probably Basra too.



[edit on 15-8-2010 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

reply to post by Gun Totin Gerbil


When the Shias and the Sunnis, as well as other power hungry faction, sit down and agree to a ceasfire, lock up their firearms, register themselves and then look at way and means for peaceful co-existant, then will others know who's been stirring the sh$t pot.

Once they can agree to a framework of co-existant and respect for the rule of law, law will then be use to INVESTIGATE all allegations of sh#t stirrers.

The longer the wars are carried out, the more divided the world will be, for without law, constitutional or sharia, there can be no investigation possible or agreements to abide to rules of engagement and only atrocities and further murders and suffering will ensure.

IT must end, if not for us, think of the innocent children and spare them what we had to suffer for our ignorance and apathy.