i cant even speak..after watching this

reply to post by Nephi1337


This is yet another example of the great inefficiency of war.

You, ex-soldier, read this, join IVAW and support the movement.

Proud of nothing you have done, because that what we bring to them.

The thanks and smile you see in Iraq is made from broken heart, broken heart seeing their country destroyed by war, war that started from the stupid allegations, that started when looking for WMD. Which is never found because its not there. And all of this bulls*t start from the useless leaders decision.

US and allied arm force have no rights to be there in the first place. The insurgent the is actually the patriot of their nation. And you patriot of the leaders greed and misuse against humanity.

At least the Iraq people can walk like normal people BEFORE the war. We go bomb and now they barely can walk. You have done your part, now do YOUR OWN part.

North Korean leader is cruel to their people, far more than Saddam. During Saddam they can walk anywhere they like, now they cant, all because of stupid war started by the inept goverments.

Are you willing to direct your anger to the leaders ? Who sits on leather chair drinking fine wine while chatting about their next vacation. While you live the trauma ?

Would you like to join us punish the damn leaders ?

Click and learn what we saw when you are there. Stop the stupidity that we brought.

Iraq Veterans Against the War

Put your anger there, in the right place, not here ATS or in Iraq. Boasting about being right bring you nowhere, do the action. Inform other about the IVAW and support their actions.

Proud of nothing you have done, because YOU have done nothing yet.

Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae

You are probably right. Any soldier with even a small amount of humanity might not do it. Unfortunately we have a video of people doing exactly what you just said would not be done. I guess that means there are soldiers without even a little humanity because no matter how many times you tell yourself that soldiers would not fire on innocent children even if ordered to, we can watch them do it in the video in the OP over and over and over again.

So are we into 20 plus pages because of one soldier? You were in a gang fight that left 9 dead, so should we write 20 plus pages on that too? If I post about Darfur we might get 10 posts to it and that is millions, you my friend just have your agenda that you have nurtured in a very bias way. We are basially out of that country now and it is still not very nice.

Here is July 17th

Leading Sahwa member by roadside bomb in Abu Ghraib

Five Sons of Iraq members by roadside bomb in Dora, south Baghdad

Two sons of Kurdish goldsmith by bomb attached to car, Al-Jameela, Tuz Khurmato

Child shot dead in Al-Maqdadiya

Former intelligence officer from Hammam al-Aleel shot dead in Al-Rifaie, west Mosul

Man from Talafar shot dead at house in Tal al-Rimman, west Mosul

Body of 17-year-old girl found shot dead in west Mosul


I just do not understand everyones point, or are you all still speachless over this one day too....BTW I can list a few 1000 more days if you like.



[edit on 15-8-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero


You revelation could not have come at a worse time on this thread.

It destroyed the comfort and solace that our boys belief that they are 'making a difference' and protecting the civilians. Just one day and look at how much worth were their protection????!!!!

Step back and reflect on the roles please. US is not making a difference and it had only escalated the violence. I know it hurts, but truth hurts all the time.

The real difference will not be made be bullets, but by changing mindsets, don't you get it??? There are only so many that bullets can kill, but if the mind is not convinced, there is no bullets enough in this world to stop it. Only ultimate destruction and extinctiion is the other option, a road humanity must never travel on!

Anything and everthing is negotiable on good faith. Quid Pro Quo

[edit on 15-8-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

Originally posted by Gun Totin Gerbil
How do you decide it is muslims bombing muslims , when for example you have agencies like the UK SAS that have dressed up as the indigenous population in nations like the Sudan and Kenya , and have planted explosives for the sole purpose of appearing to be one faction attacking another to create internal discord and cross and extra-faction disharmony ?

And probably Basra too.



[edit on 15-8-2010 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

Given that the SAS are an extremely professional force, I find it highly unlikely that any such activity by them would be reported or betrayed to the press.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

You revelation could not have come at a worse time on this thread.

It destroyed the comfort and solace that our boys belief that they are 'making a difference' and protecting the civilians. Just one day and look at how much worth were their protection????!!!!

It is true that the miscalculations were horrendous. To remove someone like Saddam one would think the population would enjoy freedom, but they decided to kill each other and are still at it, but at a much reduce rate.

Saddam was the terror and iron fist that kept them at bay and so I do feel that country would have been better off with a brutal dictator then left on their own.

Step back and reflect on the roles please. US is not making a difference and it had only escalated the violence. I know it hurts, but truth hurts all the time.

It is also true that the "war" was like a weeklong and these long years have been as I said above. We are finally making a difference now, but there is decades of further suffering by their own hands before they can finally say they are safe and free.

The real difference will not be made be bullets, but by changing mindsets, don't you get it???

I agree, but as in both Iraq and Afghanistan that mindset will only come from children not even born yet that maybe one day will live a life and go to schools with moderation and tolerance as a part of their lives. As long as extremist and intolerant views are the focus of teaching nothing will change.

I do feel it was all not worth it even if 50 years from now we might say it was good.




[edit on 15-8-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Golden Rule


Thanks for the post Golden Rule. I hadn't heard about the testing on conscientious objectors. Will dig into for more info.

Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
He begins to describe the AK47 fire and RPG fire at 5:45 in the video

Uh huh. There are reports of RPG fire.

Coming from where? These men casually standing around with reporters in the middle of the street? I guess I need a little verification on that as he does not say what you claimed. He does not say there was an RPG with these men that were mowed down by the chopper anywhere in that video.

He says that he saw an RPG next to one of the men and an AK-47 (at 7:40.)

He never comes back to it so apparently was unaware of the importance of this statement.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
The problem is that our western society in an empire. We are all part of that empire, doing our job to keep it up and running.

The US have spend more money in the army then any other nation. They provide the force to protect, expand and consolidate power.

The only thing we could do right, is leave the area

You overlooked your own point. We cannot leave the area because our empire wants to be there!

Before we can do anything otherwise, we must have regime change in the USA and other aggressor nations.

Originally posted by JohnJasper

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
The problem is that our western society in an empire. We are all part of that empire, doing our job to keep it up and running.

The US have spend more money in the army then any other nation. They provide the force to protect, expand and consolidate power.

The only thing we could do right, is leave the area

You overlooked your own point. We cannot leave the area because our empire wants to be there!

Before we can do anything otherwise, we must have regime change in the USA and other aggressor nations.

Its correct JohnJasper,
I believe the root of destruction in this world is from us, Americans. We Americans owe the world for our leaders mistake, intentionally or not. We need to support the IVAW movements, they been there, they come back and I believe they have the news correctly first hand.

reply to post by duality90

Originally posted by duality90

Given that the SAS are an extremely professional force, I find it highly unlikely that any such activity by them would be reported or betrayed to the press.

This is one that a lot of people overlooked or were easily put off by "in the know" debunkers. The soldiers had to be rescued from an Iraq police station after being caught in disguise with quite an armory of weapons and explosives.

...investigation into the two Elite SAS men disguised as Arab "terrorists"

The two British undercover "soldiers", who were driving a car loaded with weapons and ammunition, were subsequently "rescued" by British forces, in a major military assault on the building where they were being detained:

"British forces used up to 10 tanks " supported by helicopters " to smash through the walls of the jail and free the two British servicemen."

The incident, which resulted in numerous civilian and police casualties has caused political embarrassment.

Several media reports and eyewitness accounts suggested that the SAS operatives were disguised as Al Qaeda "terrorists" and were planning to set off the bombs in Basra's central square during a a major religious event.

From source article
British Chief Police Investigator in Basra dies under mysterious circumstances

Originally posted by Reign02

Being in Iraq or Afghanistan is VERY stressful!!! Imagine everywhere you go today that someone has planted a bomb somewhere or his hiding with an AK-47 or a RPG just waiting for you to walk by so they can kill you. That is a fraction of what we go through everyday. Not to mention all the stress from leaving loved ones behind.

Boo hoo - US soldiers should just get the hell out of others people countries and stop killing innocent people - all your stress will fade away.

You are trying to spread lies and disinfo - the kill ratio between Iraqi's and foreigners is so high, it is impossible that random killing didn't or isn't happening - the stats prove it MUST be happening.

This video of the heli shooting is not a one off random act - its normal procedure.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Amagnon]

Originally posted by Reign02


I am a Tsgt. in the United States Air Force. I am a tactical air command and control specialist, otherwise known as TACP. I have served in both Iraq and Afghanistan for many tours. I deploy out with Army units, Special Forces, Rangers, SEALS, etc etc etc. I have been in the s*%@ and have seen a lot of stuff go down. You people act like they are so peaceful. Well the truth is that every single insurgents that attacks US troops would be just as happy cutting your head off because you are not a child of Islam.

blah blah blah blah....if someone sees their country invaded, their homes and towns destroyed, their families maimed and killed by these invaders, I would understand why such people whose country has been invaded may feel compelled to pick up an assault rife and desire to cut off the heads of the invader. If the US was invaded and bombed to smithereens, you would see US insurgents have the same desires to take revenge on the occupier.

Where they would think about cutting off the head of an American or British civillian is because of this.

They see their country being attacked and invaded, their families maimed and killed, their homes razed to the ground, and they see the civillians of the countries who attacked them doing NOTHING to stop it, or stop their governments.

Nothing to do with religion, everything to do with a sense of injustice at being invaded and having their worlds turned upside down, and being frustrated at seeing the populace of the countries that invaded do nothing to stop it, nothing to stop a country being invaded and occupied.

The invaders make the insurgents the people they are. The insurgents would not desire to kill and cut off the heads of invaders if the invaders were not there in the first place.

Originally posted by Reign02

Terrorism will never die and will never go away but we are making a dent, believe what you want to believe but we are making a difference in both of these countries.

Oh there's a difference being made alright. There's a generation of Afghan and Iraqi kids growing up seeing the US as nothing but an aggressor, invader and occupier of their lands. That is how they will see the US.

There are Iraqis and Afghans who have lost family and friends and loved ones from the invasion and occupation.

That will make quite the difference in the coming years.

Terrorism will never die, because the enviroment is ripe for it to be created.

Occupation being one of those enviroments.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae

You are probably right. Any soldier with even a small amount of humanity might not do it. Unfortunately we have a video of people doing exactly what you just said would not be done. I guess that means there are soldiers without even a little humanity because no matter how many times you tell yourself that soldiers would not fire on innocent children even if ordered to, we can watch them do it in the video in the OP over and over and over again.

So are we into 20 plus pages because of one soldier? You were in a gang fight that left 9 dead, so should we write 20 plus pages on that too? If I post about Darfur we might get 10 posts to it and that is millions, you my friend just have your agenda that you have nurtured in a very bias way. We are basially out of that country now and it is still not very nice.

Here is July 17th

Leading Sahwa member by roadside bomb in Abu Ghraib

Five Sons of Iraq members by roadside bomb in Dora, south Baghdad

Two sons of Kurdish goldsmith by bomb attached to car, Al-Jameela, Tuz Khurmato

Child shot dead in Al-Maqdadiya

Former intelligence officer from Hammam al-Aleel shot dead in Al-Rifaie, west Mosul

Man from Talafar shot dead at house in Tal al-Rimman, west Mosul

Body of 17-year-old girl found shot dead in west Mosul


I just do not understand everyones point, or are you all still speachless over this one day too....BTW I can list a few 1000 more days if you like.

What is there for the United States to loot in Darfur? If you'd say SUDAN AS A WHOLE, ok, but Darfur? Get real. On the other hand, tyuing to cover a giant massacre with a smaller one is somewhat inefficient, as it seems.

reply to post by Nephi1337


Star and Flag, the truth needs to come out about many things.

Some ppl have called for the death of the ppl that have exposed
the truth thru the wikileaks action.

Some of us may ask what happened to freedom of the press ?

I assure you there is not freedom of the press...that is now
made PAINFULLY clear.

There are so many different lies about so many different things
in our government at different levels and both parties that
it is mind boggling.

Over 700 bases in over 130 countries makes us the new Rome.

The 7 new base being built in the country next to Venezuela
serve but one purpose and if you think otherwise you are
kidding yourself.

The pirates and plunderers have taken over the government
and the military is being used to further their agenda.

Eisenhower's warning speaks strongly to these events.



As did the former marine corp general that stopped the Business plot
to overthrow the US.



Unfortunately as often happens this merely delayed the take
over by these elements.

They managed to get their coup in place in Dallas and JFK warned
of them before it cost him his life.



So if you ever wondered when the major milestone to the end
of the United States took place, look no further.

It is also obvious to anyone that has fired a firearm that the killing
shot came from the front, not the back due to what is seen in the
filming of the event.

The lies have just piled up faster since that day in Dallas.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

You revelation could not have come at a worse time on this thread.

It destroyed the comfort and solace that our boys belief that they are 'making a difference' and protecting the civilians. Just one day and look at how much worth were their protection????!!!!

It is true that the miscalculations were horrendous. To remove someone like Saddam one would think the population would enjoy freedom, but they decided to kill each other and are still at it, but at a much reduce rate.

Saddam was the terror and iron fist that kept them at bay and so I do feel that country would have been better off with a brutal dictator then left on their own.

Step back and reflect on the roles please. US is not making a difference and it had only escalated the violence. I know it hurts, but truth hurts all the time.

It is also true that the "war" was like a weeklong and these long years have been as I said above. We are finally making a difference now, but there is decades of further suffering by their own hands before they can finally say they are safe and free.

The real difference will not be made be bullets, but by changing mindsets, don't you get it???

I agree, but as in both Iraq and Afghanistan that mindset will only come from children not even born yet that maybe one day will live a life and go to schools with moderation and tolerance as a part of their lives. As long as extremist and intolerant views are the focus of teaching nothing will change.

I do feel it was all not worth it even if 50 years from now we might say it was good.
[edit on 15-8-2010 by Xtrozero]

Your single star came from me, for I truly applaud you for your beliefs and hope there may be more like you, for it is change that will come from noble ones like you who will think and reflect on actions taken.

The insignificant me had selfishly given up on a free trip to a new world in May for mysellf and my loved ones as promised on other threads, for my word is my bond, to remain behind to do whatever I can for humanity that I had hope and love for.

You represent the hope I seek, for changes to come. If you and I had fail, I will have no regrets and will face what is to come.

Cheers and good luck.

I had never believe in coincidences but too many strange things had been happening lately for me not to believe in synchrocities. I leave you with this Dark knight theme on the time we have left, as I discovered to my dismay much later on a poster named darknight on his predictions appearing on the front page of recent postings.

I figure if we humanity can get it right by November 2010, we will have 2 years more to prove our sincerity on changes.



Cheers and good luck. May humanity and conscience prevail.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

reply to post by Xtrozero


Xtrozero - I see that you have a long history of spreading disinfo and hate. Your anti-Iran thread from 2008 would be funny if it wasn't designed to fan hate against "muslin's". I see where you even repeated the "Muslins on muslins" statement earlier in the current thread. Despite your complete lack of supporting evidence for your accusations, there are always like-minded people willing to feed on your drivel.

Only you know what reward you get for vile services.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
It is true that the miscalculations were horrendous. To remove someone like Saddam one would think the population would enjoy freedom, but they decided to kill each other and are still at it, but at a much reduce rate.

Saddam was the terror and iron fist that kept them at bay and so I do feel that country would have been better off with a brutal dictator then left on their own.

That's so good of you to admit that the country would have been better off being left alone! The fact that it's illegal to invade a country for regime change apparently doesn't rate highly in your book.

Are you unaware of the US' role in the events following the end of the war. The power vacuum created by the US' insistence on removing all Baath party officials from government (1) plus the destruction of most of what was left of the infrastructure and heritage (2 and 3) set the stage for an inescapable power struggle.

They also created the artificial division of the state into Sunni and Shia, all part of the "divide and conquer" strategy. (4)

During the first weeks of the occupation, a U.S. military commander had showed up in Baquba, the capital of Diyala province located roughly twenty-five miles northeast of Baghdad with a mixed Sunni-Shia population. He had asked to meet with all the tribal and religious leaders. On the appointed day the assembled leaders were perplexed when the commander instructed them to divide themselves, "Shia on one side of the room, Sunni on the other."...

...There have been no statistical surveys in recent years to determine the sectarian composition of Iraq. However,when the Coalition Provisional Authority, led by Paul Bremer, formed the first puppet Iraqi government, a precedent was set. The twenty-five seats in the Iraqi Governing Council (IGC), were assigned strictly along sectarian lines based on the assumption that 60 percent of the population is Shia, 20 percent Sunni, and 20 percent Kurds, who are mostly Sunni.

Naomi Klein (Shock Doctrine) and several other writers have well-documented the history of US hegemony and the invasion of Iraq was according to skills honed to perfection since the overthrow of Chile or even earlier. Any actual mistakes in the plan will have been ironed out when we invade Iran.

Don't worry! This evidence will be discarded by your fans because it won't fit their world view. You'll still be seen as the voice of reason in a world of freedom-hating foreigners.

What goes around, comes around.

Sources:
(1) Baathists banned from jobs in US policy U-turn
(2) Iraq's treasures still being looted
(3) The Erasing of Iraq - Naomi Klein
(4) The Myth of Sectarian Violence in Iraq

Hold on, hold on.... This doesn't work, stop with this bs, it's nearly 10 years old and I'm plain sick of it.

Originally posted by Section31
After sticking around for a few weeks, I began to see ATS as an online bashing forum for people who are anti-military and anti-American. I don't know where most of you come from, nor do I really care at this point.

First of all, anti-military...count me in. We SPEND NEARLY 1/2 the money IN THE WHOLE WORLD on military. Why? For 3000 dead on 9/11? How many people die from starvation, preventable disease, STDs, and Cancer? Where is the funding for those "pet projects."

Also, define "anti-American". It's a VERY loaded term and more often then not unrealistically applied to people who do not toe the military line. I believe here you have simply repeated yourself. By anti-American, you simply mean "anti-Military," because that is the face of America you refer to when you say "anti-American." I'm certainly not against the Grand Canyon, SkyLine Chili, the spelling of centre as 'center', the cliche of giving a teacher an apple, airboat rides in the everglades, baseball, the Delaware Water Gap, Springfield, MO, chimineas for sale in Santa Fe, moss hanging on trees in Northern Florida on a summer day, salt water taffy in Savanah, GA, scuba-diving for War of 1812 relics in Lake Champlain, Vermont maple syrup, or - or almost all of the billion other socio-cultural, linguistic, historical, toponymic, ecological and geographic indicators that together create the totality of the American identity.

When I see a soldier defending himself in the first page (and people bash him for defending his country), I see something very-very wrong with how these wars have been perceived.

Please. Yes, it's not the preacher, but the soldier who gives us freedom of religion, it's not the university professor, but the soldier who gives us freedom of speech...blah, blah, blah. Heard it, sick of it.

It's a cross-canceling mindset: The soldier is the reason for freedom of speech SO don't you damn use it! Just a different way to curtail free speech.

I don't blame the soldier, I have family injured in the Iraq war, Vietnam, WWII and probably others - just haven't heard the stories yet (or never will).

Stop using the tired old +SOLDIER AS VICTIM+/+SOLDIER AS JUSTIFICATION+ metaphors, they're warn out and I can see right through them. The war is what it is independent of the soldiers who choose to fight or get caught up in fighting in them. The wars are still not justified.

My definition of a "necessary" war: A war where the whole of both societies is embroiled in so much death, destruction and misery that both sides will come out of it with a certain disdain for war for quite some time (generations preferably; forever ideally). We have not FELT a war here in quite some time, thus the adventurism of war is lost on most of society. iPods, iCarly, and I'm lovin' it on the bases in Afghanistan and Iraq tell me it's not a REAL war from our point of view. Just invasion.

I don't know where everyone got their information, but both wars were/are very necessary for national security reasons. Saddam was a military tyrant, and Osama killed 3,000+ people on 9/11/2001.

Wrong. Dead wrong. National security is the new code phrase for "Corporate interests." Please rationally explain to me how all the Afghans (living in hicktowns and backwaters) who have needlessly died up until this point were of immediate threat to me or anyone I know. Explain how doctors, lawyers, hairdressers or booksellers in Baghdad were. PLEASE explain how hoteliers, farmers or lowly heroin addicts in Iran are supposed to be. People are people. And people at the top are money hungry and will come up with any excuse, apparently for oil pipe lines and the CIA-sponsored poppy trade.

Somewhere over the past nine years, the media entered into a horrific propaganda campaign.

Oh yes, boo hoo. It's called the Phil Donnahue Show and it was canceled back in '03 on that awful, anti-American MSNBC and their liberal owner GE (which is a very "liberal" defense contractor, like Halliburton, Lockheed Martin, KBR - bunch of panzy, bleeding-heart liberals!).

MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, and CNN set out on a goal to distort the facts, and a crap load of people bought into their lies. Sure, President Bush majorly messed up selling the wars, and also did a horrible job on planning and strategy. However, that should not overshadow why we 'counter-attacked' those countries.

Interesting, I can't take you seriously as a pillar of righteous intent if you leave out FOX. They're all the same, all corporate, all serving $pecial interest$.

Also, we "counter" attacked exactly, um, which attack from Iraq? Oh, no, you mean "Preemption". By the way, the word preemption means "buying before others" ...interesting thing to think about when considering Iraq and all that tasty crude.

An eye for an eye is an interesting concept. Unfortunately, it implies that the death of every person is justified by revenge. I don't recall wedding parties or doctor's offices threatening my very existence. I don't recall getting threatening texts from goat herders in the mountains.

Of course, you'll respond with the sad old "War is hell" expression or perhaps, "Collateral damage is an unfortunate reality of war". Well, whoever is completely involved in the 9/11 conspiracy (conspiracy is an accurate word seeing as how more than ONE person plotted and carried it out).

Now, if a bunch of Saudis lead by an Egyptian had serious beef with the US, what would have incensed them so much??? Could it be our support of their tyrannical Royal family (S.A.) and military dictator (Egypt)? Is it possible that "our freedoms" were not really that important to them?

I'm not an apologist for violence, as you should be well aware by the rest of my reply here. I do not condone their actions on 9/11. However, if they were trying to get somebody's attention, I don't think the point was to have Afghanistan invaded. That WOULD, however, be an excellent prefab excuse...kind of like the Maine or the Gulf of Tonkin, etc.

Do we belong in Afghanistan at this point? No. Obama reignited a war that should have been let go, and Bush warned everyone about going back. At this point in time, we have to deal with the here and now. Afghanistan is a very hard country to control, and it put the USSR into a devastating economic crises. It eventually caused the country to split; thus, the USSR is no longer in existence. Afghanistan has now turned into a civil war.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not Obama supporter, but the guy was trashed six times til Thursday for NOT doing the surge, wasn't he???

Yes, ok, fine, the USSR is long gone and it's Afghanistan's fault. Or, was it a pretense to simply create a Russian Federation with a bunch of suzerainties that seemingly have become home to American bases, even as Russia flexes its muscles. To be honest, it all looks like a big bunch of steamy BS. Tajikistan? Seriously? Bases in Tajikistan? On China and Russia's borders? How is this possible without a Red Scare show down a la Cuban Missile Crisis?

I think there is more to all of this than you or I are privy.

Did we belong in Afghanistan after 9/11/2001? Absolutely, 100% Yes. I don't care about what type of propaganda you all heard, but the facts are as light and blue as the day. We were attacked by extremists who were living, operating, and hiding in Afghanistan. Period.

Did we belong in the Chilean coup on 9/11/1973? Milton Friedman says, "Absolutely!"

Don't care about the propaganda I heard? Why, it's the same propaganda you heard as far as I can tell from what you've been saying ...guess some of us see it as propaganda and others see it as verbatim holy doctrine.

I'm pretty sure the Taliban (our ex-anti-soviet friends) said we could have anyone we wanted, just take them, Osama included. Instead we invade. Didn't they say we couldn't have the pipeline we wanted when they came to visit in '98 or '99? They really should have let that pipeline go through...maybe the Taliban were eco-Mullahs?

When it comes to the war on Iraq... It does not matter if Bush lied to us or not. Saddam's role model was noted as being Joseph Starlin. Everything Saddam had done over the years was in reflection of his hero. If an Iraqi spoke out against their leader, Saddam would have them publicly hanged. He also use to test chemical weapons on his people. He was a viscous, scheming, and cold-blooded killer. Period.

Do you know what they do in Egypt or Saudi Arabia???? Seriously, Saddam was a cruel dictator is such a slap-happy, pick-and-choose excuse. Why not through a dart at Africa and take out a propped-up dictator there?

In fact, here's a thought: Why don't we just invade Fiji, they're run by a cruel dictator?

And, I think I just got me a good excuse: Fiji's dictator controls the water supply for all of our most important Americans, like the cast of The Hills. It's a conspiracy to kill scene-sters and the Hollywood chic...time to BOMB FIJI!

Sound ridiculous? Well, just polish up the edges and create a media storm and, BAM: We've got ourselves an excuse to invade Fiji. Really, I think we could easily have just as legitimate an excuse as we had with Iraq under the circumstances. I mean, seriously, cartoon drawings of Laboratory Trains at the UN? What is this, a Bond movie?

I don't care about anyone's theories or counter-arguments on what I just said, and I am not going to respond to anyone who thinks otherwise.

I wouldn't expect any differently. In fact, with your type, I either get shouted at (many registered Republicans and most avowed FOX viewers), which is a great way to really sort out the facts and get some rational dialog going. Or, I get completely ignored or the typical "eye-roll" (usually registered Democrats).

I don't like how people are addressing the United States military in these forums, and I ask you all to give them your respect.

Dissent does not equal lack of respect. In many ways, dissent is respect for human decency and that includes soldiers (at least the human ones). I do not, however, respect the drones.

What I find hilarious is that civilians die outside of the war zone in their own homes every day and yet you cry outrage against civilian casualties in a war zone. Do you know what happens in war? Civilians die. Children get blown up. Women get raped. Innocents die. Why? Because it's war. If you want to go all bleeding heart OMG THE IRAQI'S ARE DYING why not look at your own country? What about the countless unnamed innocents that die daily that aren't covered in some video used as propaganda?