how do the masons here on ats feel about the NWO?

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by reesie45
I have a question, what are the benefits of being a mason? And what is the appeal?

Its not what your fraternity can do for you, it's what can you do for your fraternity! Or whatever JFK would say if he were a Mason.

Seriously, if you go into something like Masonry looking for a benefit, then you are probably a bad fit.

There are many benefits that you will realize after you begin to put in work, and make lifelong connections. There is the mysticism, there is the camaraderie, there is the history and the lessons, there is the networking among a group of high moral characters from within your community.

In general though, you get the opportunity to learn what makes great men great. And then, even better is that you get to teach young members how to become better men. One of the corny bumperstickers and T-shirt slogans says, "Masonry, Making Good Men Better." That is the fun part for me. I love bringing in new members and watching them grow. I wish I had joined at a much younger age!

Not all masonry is like that, im afraid to tell you.

for instance, i once was interested in joining my local lodge, about 2 or 3 years ago, and i was complete turned down. I though, why? i gave them every reason to admit me. i had already been studying mysticism for 3 or 4 years before that.

But than i realized that Masonry in my town is ridiculously secretive. My town was founded by masons (its a fairly big town today, with 50,000 + residents). Every mayor, and most concel members were apart of this lodge. many local business leaders were apart of it is aswell. My town is super corrupt. The local business giant here is called magna international. They make parts for cars. When hurricane katrina happened in '05, do you know who was one of the first people to go down and 'help' the residents of new orleans? Frank stronach (CEO of magna). He was nice enough to set up a little 'town' just in rural louisiana. They were each given jobs and homes in this communist china like compound. They now work and live in these houses. This to me is not 'helping' but tricking people into a slave labor like system. They were all coerced into signing contracts (given how desperate they were) and now they build car parts for cheap wages and Magna international is making major profits from it.

I know this may seem like an isolated unrelated case to masonry, but it isnt. Its to highlight the corruption in this area that i live, and given this lodge publicizes its historical control of aurora politics and business, i doubts its changed today. Its very ritzy this lodge. Alot of money has gone into it and joining seems impossible. I guess its more 'business' oriented, or atleast only intested in inviting people who can benefit the lodge. The mysticism im sure i still practiced, as is the case with all the other corrupt lodges.

reply to post by reesie45

I was drawn to the Masons for their historical past. I was also looking for a Brotherhood, a group of close friends, as I was moving to a new city where I knew no one. I also travel a lot and everywhere I go I find myself in good company and near Brothers who help me if needed.

reply to post by Nephi1337

Well, I'm a Past Master of the Blue Lodge (was up to be a District Deputy Grand Master, but because of my deployment I can't accept the position), High Priest for the Royal Arch Masons (also received OHP), 3rd in charge for the Cryptic Masons (I'm hoping to be elected to Illustrius Master when I get back home), Senior Warden for the Order of the Temple (I'm in line to be Commander), member of the Order of the Eastern Star (looking to be Worthy Patron when I get back from the deployment), and Seneschal of the York Rite College (an invitation only, honorary body in the York Rite; mostly for those who have the rituals of the Blue Lodge and York Rite memorized).

I've presided over two of the 4 bodies so I'm coming close to being eligible to be invited to the Knights of the York Cross of Honor.

Also when I get back I plan on going through the Scottish Rite (they have the money and petition already). I was supposed to go through this year, but I had to work that day and my bosses wouldn't give me the day off. Maybe when I'm older, I'll join the Shriners, but I don't have time now.

I have no problem discussing any part of Freemasonry except that which I have sworn never to divulge, and I'll tell when I can't.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by KSigMason]

reply to post by dontreally

Not to sound like a dick, but you sound kind of bitter over being turned down so now you're turning on the very group you sought to join.

Well, that man is a man, capable of err. Also, is he paying them lower than minimum wage? I'm pretty sure that's illegal. If he is doing anything illegal report his butt. Are any of those workers complaining?

And if this Lodge is truly corrupt, its not indicative of all of Freemasonry, just these men.

Well since brothers are telling there stories on coming into the craft I am a newbie to the craft compared to most of the brothers I have seen posting on ATS, I am also a newbie to ATS, athough I think I am becoming addicted

I feel bad for the poaster a few above who was not admitted into lodge.

I always had a facination with Freemasonry and Ancient Spiritualism. I ama confessing Christian but I am gnostic in my beliefs.

Anyway I moved to a small town in Iowa to be with my girlfriend of 3 years now, I stated going to church with her and became friends with a couple guys in a sunday school class. One of the men wore a Masonic ring after some reading and some courage to approach him about becoming a mason, I asked. Thats all it took just asked. Turns out he wasa two time Past Master and District lecturer. Well he took me under his wing and sighned my petition and about 6 months after that I was raised a Master Mason. I missed out on last years officer appointments because of a work schedule, but I still tru to memorize the rituals of the chairs. I fill in as Junior Deacon when he is gone and hopefully this Novermber I will recieve a officer chair.

Anyway enough of my rant basically if anyone is interested in Masonry just Ask. I cant wait till someone ask me I just hope that I make a good example of Masonry, so that others would want to ask me to join.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by dontreally

 

Not to sound like a dick, but you sound kind of bitter over being turned down so now you're turning on the very group you sought to join.

Well, that man is a man, capable of err. Also, is he paying them lower than minimum wage? I'm pretty sure that's illegal. If he is doing anything illegal report his butt. Are any of those workers complaining?

And if this Lodge is truly corrupt, its not indicative of all of Freemasonry, just these men.

It was 3 years ago. Ive long lost interest in joining and bitter? If thats how it sounded in the post i didnt mean to give the impression that i was hurt by them turning me down, but more curious. Its an unsually difficult lodge to join.

Ive since gone through a few things. I dont want any part of freemasonry. I find their glorification of status as a bit indicative of the nature of the order, that is, heirarchial and pretentious.

Besides, im a soon to be convert to Judaism, and i regard any orthodox Jew who's a freemason as a borderline heretic. The unifying factor in Masonry is the perennial philosophy. So, masonry for a non Jew makes alot of sense. Their mystical philosophies meet up with each other. So, not much of a contradiction. But Judaism and Kabbalah (despite its misappropriation by Jewish heretics and gentiles) Chassidut is in no way compatible with their philosopy. Judaism is strictly patriarchial, theres no hidden worship of the divine feminine like in Christianity and Islam. And the remaining religions of the world are mainly antinomian. So, masonry is for non jews, not for jews.

And masonry in itself is actually antipathetic to Orthodox Jewish interests, as the monument in the south on the border with Egypt would suggest. In kabbalah, Egypt is synonymous with evil. The Hebrew word for Egypt is Mitzrayim, which is the same as word for limitations "mitzarim". This means that Egypt signifies the limitations and contractions in the world. Egyptian philosophy was very dark and misanthropic. They worshipped dark forces and were renown for their magical and sexually immoral behavior. Egypt was highly immoral, and so they served as a divine symbol of the constriction of holiness, blessing and wealth in the world. Interestingly, the greek word sphynx, as in the sphynx of egypt, is also the root of the word sphinctor (to contract).

Egyptian society is the prototype of all subsequent totilitarian systems. This is why the obelisk of egypt was transferred to Rome. The pyramid being their ideal of how the world should function. With the elites at the top and the serfs at the bottom who are fed lies. Its a system based on delusion, not truth. Thats the difference between Egypt and Israel. Or, the philosophy of greece and rome vs Jewish philosophy. One engages in fantasy and image making, forcing the image to make the reality, while the truth is broken down and apparently because it remains unknown, is thought of as non existent.

Its interesting that Greek gematria employs the number 11 so often. 11 symbolizes duality. In the book of kings, the 11th chapter is about Solomons fall and deviation from the will of God. In that chapter, Solomon receieves 666 talents of gold from the pagan nations around him. Esoterically, the word Tassur(to deviate) in Hebrew has the value of 666, meaning the gold (allure) of the wisdom of the nations caused Solomon to deviate from the law of Torah. this resulted in the collapse of his kingdom and its subsequent split into two kingdoms (duality).

So..... Jews and Judaism has to remain apart from the dualistic (that is, the belief that the animal is coequal to the soul) perennial philosophy of the nations. I dont know if its this sort of mysticism youre exposed to. But the elite in masonry certainly believe this

[edit on 10-8-2010 by dontreally]

reply to post by dontreally

I can understand the disappointment and confusion from being turned down. I hate to hear that because its not. Most of the members are good people who are not "elitists".

Freemasonry unites men of religion and walk of life. Every man is allowed to worship in his own way so Judaic Brethren are not compromising their faith in God. Goodness, morality, prudence, justice, and charity are something all good men and good religions aspire for. Freemasonry doesn't seek to replace religion.

reply to post by dontreally


You know, I have heard of Lodges blackballing somebody a time or two, just to see if they are serious or not. Most lodges don't have the luxury of such a strong financial situation to be able to turn away good men, but the Lodge you speak of sounds like it is doing just fine, so maybe they just cull out the lookilous and frivolous applicants by blackballing everybody a time or two?

I know some college fraternities that do the same thing

Maybe you shouldn't have given up so easily?

And you sound like you know a lot more about religion than me, but there are Masonic Lodges in Israel, and we have a visitor to our Lodge in Florida that comes from Jeruselum. He visits about once per year, and he is Jewish from his yamika to his beard!!

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by dontreally

 

I can understand the disappointment and confusion from being turned down. I hate to hear that because its not. Most of the members are good people who are not "elitists".

Freemasonry unites men of religion and walk of life. Every man is allowed to worship in his own way so Judaic Brethren are not compromising their faith in God. Goodness, morality, prudence, justice, and charity are something all good men and good religions aspire for. Freemasonry doesn't seek to replace religion.

Are you serious?

Whatever. I dont care about masonry and im telling you right now its structure is Egyptian, Greek, and if you know anything about Jewish philosophy, history they are completely incompatible.

And any orthodox Jew thats a mason i would personally reprimand. He clearly has no clue what hes apart of. Sometimes lacking understanding of the greater pciture can give you a false impression about something. In teh greater picture, Masonry, Christianity, Vatican, is all acrimonious towards Jews and Judaism and most informed Jewish rabbis know this. There nothing wrong with a Jew associating with a non Jew, but it shouldnt be done in secret, in a pretentious manner (as Masonry is) and if it is done, it should be done in a simple manner. Come by the Shul, or go to each others house. If a gentile is interested in learning more about kabbalistic or chassific philosophy or wants to learn more, all he need do is pick up a book. Jews should be more interested in establishing right relations with each other, instead of joining secret socieites that are inimical to Orthodox Jewish interests - as evinced by the illuminati presence in israel. Ie; the masonic monument facing Egypt, the illuminati architecture at the Israeli supreme court. No orthodox Jew approves of this. They know whats going on. Theyre very educated and aware of the threat the illuminati (called in Hebrew Amalek) poses to the Jewish people. The famous Chofetz Chaim warned European Jewry in 1932 before he died that amalek (a collective name for the western elite) were planning the war of Gog and Magog in 3 stages. The first stage WW1, and he said the 2nd stage was coming soon (WWII) and the 3rd stage would come much later and it would be the worst of all. He was well aware of what the masons, vatican and aristocrats of europe were planning.

Masonry has its own agenda and it does not at all accord with what Orthodox (that is, traditional REAL Judaism) Judaism teaches. Masonry is corrupt. Take a second and look at the pretention and egotism of Freemasonry. Its garments, its grades, its ridiculously pretentious and meaningless rituals. And i say meaningless cause theyre so idolatrous and self adulating. That is not true spirituality. That is typical of paganism. Not judaism or a true humble spiritual tradition.

Of course, im sure there are many good and upright masons out there who sincerely try to be good and people and want to serve the creator (GAOTU) in whatever capacity that they can. Such a mason is a bnei noach and a righteous gentile. and honestly, freemasonry does have the potential to be a righteous order. But, its filled with so much glam and idolatry and its philosophy is gnostic. So, im sorry. Me no likey. if i knew what i did 3 years ago i wouldnt have made an effort to join this group.

Ive never met an orthodox rabbi that approved of an orthodox jew being apart of masonry. So, Jews and masonry are incompatible. Christianity = Gnosticism = Hellenistic, which is what Haunukah was all about. Overcoming the Greco - roman desire to assimilate and undermine the Jews obervance of torah. It may be 'simple' but thats okay. Im interested in honoring my creator, not myself.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by dontreally]

reply to post by dontreally


I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you are "soon to convert to Judaism" and yet you rail on and on about what every Jew "should" do? And then you call Masons pretentious?

Do you see the issue with this?

As for the rituals, they are certainly not self-congratulatory. Every step, every word, every motion has meaning. Even a lot of Masons miss the hidden meanings. The secrets were communicated this way over the years to "communicate that which cannot be taught."

Masonic Floor Work

That link is very, very informative about the ritual floor work.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Yea its sad too see! I dont no how I would have reacted if I was turned down. I would want to know the reason why and probably would have asked the masons I knew. Like what the heck why didnt I get the votes! Anyway I hope he finds what he needs in the jewish faith. Oh and thanks for that link you posted its realy cool.

Originally posted by dontreally
Are you serious?

Whatever. I dont care about masonry and im telling you right now its structure is Egyptian, Greek, and if you know anything about Jewish philosophy, history they are completely incompatible.

And any orthodox Jew thats a mason i would personally reprimand. He clearly has no clue what hes apart of.

Guess you have all the answers then, huh?

Then by all means, don't bother reading these links:
Are the Freemasons kosher?
Masonic Traditions and Jewish Mysticism
Rabbi Jacob Judah Leon
Some Judaic Aspects of Freemasonry

freemason what can i say of course you would say that its open and you need to only ask i believe that, but what worries people is the secrets which they hold and also that they have become woven into almost all aspects of life the dollar,politics,buisness what happens when they control all of it not saying they may not i guess the main thing is what happens when they get to big i think they are to big but thats my view, what happens then what about the people who dont want to have masons in politics because they might give special favors to there other mason buddies not saying that you do or dont but that will be the feeling of the public

Originally posted by KSigMason

I can understand the disappointment and confusion from being turned down. I hate to hear that because its not. Most of the members are good people who are not "elitists".

Most Lodges do not turn people without good reasons. From I've read by this guy on here, it was probably a good idea.

Originally posted by truth_of_truth
what happens then what about the people who dont want to have masons in politics because they might give special favors to there other mason buddies not saying that you do or dont but that will be the feeling of the public

I dunno, what happens about the people who don't want Lutherans in politics because they might give special favors to Lutheran buddies? Or Jews, or Teamsters, or anybody else?

"The public" generally supports Freemasonry, and honors the Freemasons who helped found our nation and its system of government.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by Masonic Light]

reply to post by truth_of_truth


How much do you know about the Omega Psi Phi fraternity? They are very old, and interwoven into many aspects of life, entertainment, government, and education. They are the oldest black fraternity. You have seen their "secret" symbolism on just about every touchdown or slamdunk on television. You have seen politicians make the sign.

They are quite simply, just another fraternity with some very successful members. All of their initiations are secret just like Masons and every other fraternity out there. To become one, you have to know one, you have to ask, you have to put in some work and earn some respect. Just like Masons. After you become a "Q-dog" as they call themselves, then you have a responsibility to learn the history, customs, etc. You have a responsibility to conduct yourself in a manner that brings honor and respect to the fraternity. Etc., Etc.

Just about every other fraternity on any campus could be described this way.

Why are Masons the ones with the evil intentions? Why not Elks? Q-dogs? Blue Dog Democrats? Why not the PTA? Now the PTA is definitely an elite and evil group of busybodies trying to corrupt our kids with their "indoctrination!"

When it comes down to it no reasonable, moral man could ever say Freemasonry is evil or not conducive with good religions.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by dontreally

 

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you are "soon to convert to Judaism" and yet you rail on and on about what every Jew "should" do? And then you call Masons pretentious?

Do you see the issue with this?

As for the rituals, they are certainly not self-congratulatory. Every step, every word, every motion has meaning. Even a lot of Masons miss the hidden meanings. The secrets were communicated this way over the years to "communicate that which cannot be taught."

Masonic Floor Work

That link is very, very informative about the ritual floor work.

This may be 'my' opinion, but its based on many many respected rabbis that ive spoken with. Theyre as much against masonry as i am. And it goes far back. The famous rabbi Rebbe Nachman of Breslev(1772 -1810) told a parable that alluded to the nature of the gentile (specifically the Freemason) and the Jew, called "the sophisticate and the simpleton".

Sophisticate and the Simpleton

Heres an interesting audio of rebbe Nachman and the illuminati
media.azamra.org...

I know masonry is symbolic, i never said it wasnt. I said its rituals are pretentious. They may have an esoteric meaning, but beneath that, theres a great deal of pomp and self pretention. Its the pinnacle of idolatry. How any orthodox Jew can reconcile being apart of this group with the Torah adjuration not to worship any G-d beside me. How can you worship with other people who have idolatrous views of G-d? You cant. The many grades and levels aswell are idolatrous and often associated with pagan rites and figures. "knight of the brzen serpent", "Knight of the sun" - Ar you effing kidding me!?

This is like solomon being led astray by the philosophy of the surrounding nations. I dont deny that gnosticism and Pagan theology can be intellectually alluring. Buts its not as convincing when compared to the mysteries of the Torah/Hebrew and the various works of Kabbalah (Zohar, sefer Yetzirah). It diminishes faith and confuses one by him being exposed to philosophies and systems of thought that challenge the law of the jewish sages and the Simple Faith required to serve the one G-d.

You seem like a nice enough guy. I dont know how far you are in masonry, but clearly you arent far enough. The farther you go, the more dramatic the changes become. Each grade is symbolic of a spiritual level. The 32 most like correspond to the kabbalistic "32 paths of wisdom" that being the 22 Hebrew letters and the 10 sefirot. But, again, the orthodox approach to this subject is connected with the law of Torah, and thus one is always rooted to the purpose that G-d gave man in this world. This means he wont transgress any of the ethical laws of Torah. However, a gentile who takes this path does it out of a sense of self love and not a selfless love for G-d. Even the way they refer to G-d couldnt sound any more impersonal (GAOTU). A name typically used by Hermeticists and gnostics.

A Jew calls G-d HaShem. And that is an incredibly personal appelation. It implies a personal relationship based on Faith and prayer with an unknowable source who nonetheless revealed himself with the giving of the Torah and who connects with man in the most meaningful way when he simply abnegates himself and seeks to know his G-d (symbolically in his life) in all his ways.

Originally posted by KSigMason
When it comes down to it no reasonable, moral man could ever say Freemasonry is evil or not conducive with good religions.

Thats of course depends on what you call moral. To CG Jung, morality takes on a whole new definition. Doing what seems intellectually correct becomes whats moral. And sometimes what people like him consider moral is infact remarkably counter intuitive and blatantly immoral, but because they built up some rationalization that in itself is contingent on their own personal prejudices, an evil act becomes a good act because its 'intellectually' justifiable.

A classic example being the world is overpopulated. Therefore it would be 'immoral' to not kill 4 billion people to bring it within sustainability.

It is a perfect example of why Freemasonry is not for everyone. I think that is one of the big reasons we are not allowed to solicate membership. We dont whant just anybody becoming a member if they are not serious. That was one of the key points that was brought up to me when I was investigated by the lodge. They wanted to know if I was serious and that this was something that I realy wanted to do. I told them yes and they accepted me and poured out there time and effort into giving me the 3 degrees of the blue lodge.

reply to post by dontreally


Technically there are only 3 degrees in Masonry. There are not 32 or 33. What you speak of is the Scottish Rite. It has 32 degrees and an honorary 33rd degree.

You are correct about one thing, I have not gone through the Scottish Rite or the Yorkish Rite, but I have been a Mason for almost 10 years. I have sat in every elected chair, including the Worshipful Master. I have taught catechism classes. I know the work. So, mine is not a naive opinion. I am also acquainted with several past Grand Masters, and there is no higher office than that in Masonry.

As for Idolatry, you are absolutely 100% wrong. We do not worship the working tools, the wheat, the waterfall, the checkered floor, the tessellated border, or the altar in the middle. Every physical representation stands for a concept or moral or lesson. They are all teaching tools, not idols. Even when we pray, we do not pray to the altar, or to any prophet, saint, or son of god. We pray directly to the GAOTU.

If there is idolatry in Masonry, then you might as well say there is idolatry in science and literature. Does a literature teacher alluding to a classic work and illustrating the meaning within that work constitute idolatry? It is no different in Masonry. We teach and learn about difficult and important moral concepts, and we use teaching tools and illustrations to help convey those concepts.

In the examination before Passing, Masonry is said to be "a beautiful system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols." While allegory and symbol play a prominent role in the Craft they are by no means restricted to it. Brethren who have a clear idea of how these devices work will find a deeper understanding of how Masonry operates and what it means.

Symbols in Masonry