When will Mexico start being accountable and stop expecting America to do all the work?

All this immigration BS has got me steamed. Not only because we have sat back for many decades letting it get out of hand, but, mostly I am mad because Mexico continues to remain the thug nation right under our nose. It is their policies and F@#$D up laws that cause this. You would think, a country neighbor to America would follow our lead, I believe, for the most part, we remain the 'land of opportunity', and do not blame any mexican for wanting to come here. I do not mind if any mexican want to come and live here. But, if their waiting time for a green card wasn't sooooo damn long we wouldn't have epidemic ilegal immigration and our tax dollars would be going to better use.

If the wait for a green card was drastically shortened they would either have to...1. Continue to remain a third world society while all the ambitious people moved to America or...2. Start taking on some of our policies and move into the 21st century.

I am so sick of never hearing how Mexico should take resposibility. If this were Iranians coming into our land and killing our people we would already be at war. I am not saying we should go to war, but, that we are using our power, as a country, poorly. Illegal immigration is really an easy fix...for a daring president that is. We need to act, but we need to act rationally. This debate has turned us against each other when it is Mexico who should answer to us about this issue, not the prez.


[edit on 31-7-2010 by assasinforfather]

reply to post by assasinforfather

This debate has turned us against each other when it is Mexico who should answer to us about this issue, not the prez.

So you really believe that a corrupt government that is fighting a war against the cartels to please Washington should take responsibility?

Do you believe Mexico has the resources to stop the flow of immigration?

The US has the most security it has ever had on the border and can't do it. Furthermore, Mexico has all its manpower tied up in the War against drugs.

Reality is that the US has always had an illegal immigration issue. Government has known this and have chosen for the most part to play a game of cat and mouse. The answers to the solution rests with the US government.

Illegals come for jobs. Eliminate the opportunities to get jobs and illegals will have to come in the proper way.

Of course, illegal immigration is only part of the problem. Other issues like visas and free trade also must be looked at.

BTW I think Mexico should take responsibility, but I just don't see them capable of doing so.








[edit on 31-7-2010 by jam321]

Thats because Mexico wants the illegals going into America. They like the steady flow of cash going into their country when the illegals send it back.

reply to post by Doubleagent

Thats because Mexico wants the illegals going into America. They like the steady flow of cash going into their country when the illegals send it back.

I am American and I send money to Mexico to my Dad.

Furthermore, a lot of money going back to Mexico is questionable considering banks like Wachovia money laundering drug money and even Western Union was slammed for wire transfers concerning drugs.

Seems Americans with drug habits are sending more money than illegals.

Wachovia

Western Union

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by assasinforfather

 

This debate has turned us against each other when it is Mexico who should answer to us about this issue, not the prez.

So you really believe that a corrupt government that is fighting a war against the cartels to please Washington should take responsibility?


Illegals come for jobs. Eliminate the opportunities to get jobs and illegals will have to come in the proper way.



Yes! So, if they can't fix it, we should? Then force is the only solution since their weak and spineless government does nothing. All they have to do is ask us for help where resources are concerned.

It has gotten out of hand and terrorist acts are being done to our citizens. Just because the murders aren't on a grand scale as 911 was, doesn't make it any less signifigant. Mexico is closer to home than Afganistan and Iraq, and we are fighting a war way over there because of what a small group of men did. Thousands of mexicans commit violent crimes towards Americans every day and we do nothing about it. Our Police officers can't even ask if they are a US citizen when arrested. Who said that was good policy, especially in a felony case?

Mexico needs to stop playing two face because of greed. HA, how ironic...our own government is failing from greed. I hope we don't become a third world nation because of greed.

I hope we always welcome foriegners to come and live here.

I hope America always uses logic and reason in bringing good judgement.

May America never turn the Alien away.

Our brawn hasn't worked...it's time to use our brain.

If we can't fix this, how can we expect to win overseas when we can't even win close to home.

Peace is always the way! Muuaah!

Yes, they do come for jobs because Amercans have become so educated all the manual labor jobs are not sufficiant. Like I said originally, I don't mind them coming here. Let the Mexican Government be bold and drastically shorten the waiting period for a visa is all I am saying. Most would be willing to wait a year or two, but 7+ is outragious and inhumane. That is the Governments fault, not the cartel's.

reply to post by assasinforfather


Presumably when we stop sending mass amounts of arms to drug lords in Mexico and being the major recipient of the illegal drugs. I'm sure that might help.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by assasinforfather

 

Presumably when we stop sending mass amounts of arms to drug lords in Mexico and being the major recipient of the illegal drugs. I'm sure that might help.

So, I guess we feel too guilty to change things with force? Makes sense to me. It's dirty, very very dirty.

reply to post by assasinforfather

Then force is the only solution since their weak and spineless government does nothing. All they have to do is ask us for help where resources are concerned.

Go ahead with your force and you get many more illegals asking for asylum.

Thousands of mexicans commit violent crimes towards Americans every day and we do nothing about it. Our Police officers can't even ask if they are a US citizen when arrested. Who said that was good policy, especially in a felony case?

Mexicans aren't the only ones who commit violent crimes. And I could care less if a police ask somebody if they are US citizen or not. By God if a person committed a violent crime they need to be in jail.

Mexico needs to stop playing two face because of greed. HA, how ironic...our own government is failing from greed. I hope we don't become a third world nation because of greed.

Why such a concern for Mexico? You should be more concerned about what the US is doing. Have you even done research into the two countries relationship? Read up on the drug war, NAFTA, and US relationship with Latin American countries if you have time.

Our brawn hasn't worked...it's time to use our brain.

Didn't you advocate force earlier?

Let the Mexican Government be bold and drastically shorten the waiting period for a visa is all I am saying. Most would be willing to wait a year or two, but 7+ is outragious and inhumane. That is the Governments fault, not the cartel's.

Mexico doesn't give out visas to its people who want to come into the US.

Never.

Now that Taliban/Afghan heroin is coming across the border along with Colombian coke and Mexican Mafia marijuana, Mexico never has to become a responsible country.

There's more than enough illegal drug money to ten times buy off every member of congress and whomever is in the White Hosue. What more responsibility does Mexico need? Money under the congressional tables continues to maintain the status quo.

What Mexico has is a dang near endless supply of cheap labor drug smugglers coming across the border. Heck, not only is the labor cheap, the Mexican immigrants are paying coyotes to get them across the border. The coyotes take their money, then duct tape bags of heroin or coke to their bodies, then send them across the border into America. Why would Mexico want to change that beneficial status?

Forbes says that the wealthiest man in the world is a Mexican: Carlos Slim. Mexico is a perfect example of the Marxist New World Order business model: a handful of the super wealthy with a massive feudal system of cheap labor.

The Mexican army and the Mexican police all work for the Mexican Mafiya. Like gangster Bugsy Siegel once said, "We only kill each other." Nobody gets really excited about all the cheap labor who die out in the desert. That cheap labor is expendable and easily replaced.

That's about as responsible as the Mexican elite will ever get. There's no reason for Mexico to become 'responsible.' The Mexian system has been working this way since before the Aztecs and the Mayans were eliminated as slave labor in the gold mines.

Mexico's not going to fix a system they figure is not broken.

To the OP.
Mexico will never do anything about said issues, as it is truly not their problem, therefore they will expect America to do all of the work.
Why? what did you have in mind?

Warning: poor spelling ahead.
To expect anything from mexico, is not understanding mexico. There is no real mexican govt.. At least how we think of govt.. You know, truth' justice and the American way.

There is a handful of the wealthy that rule the country. And do not fool your self there is some serous money in mexico. Should govt. allocate say 9mil. for a road, 2mil. might make it to the actual project. The rest of the money gets funneled around. Those in control have NO desire for any kind of change. And if the lowly pesants are in the U.S. making money, ther minds are not focised on changing the system in mexico. Funny how they demand things here though ain't it? They know it is hopeless in there own country.

Follow the money. Who is making money from the drug running? I do not know. It may be some of these ruling famlies or they may just fear narcos, and for good reason! A short time ago the U.S. gave mexico a lot of money to 'fight drugs' , and the mexicans became insulted when congress wanted some accounting of that money. If I rember it was 400mil.. That money proably bought no more than 2 pickup trucks and a box of bullets.

So why do we pander to mexico? IMO, there is money being made here too. And if we shake up things too much, we end up with a Hugo Chavas next door. Rember dictatiors types are popular among the poorest masses.
If the masses are here they cannot revolt there. Oh ya, they got oil too.
sucks dont it!





[edit on 31-7-2010 by nocents]

reply to post by g146541


Well, I am just sick of it. One simple threat to the Mexican government by our prez and things would change. So, in that sense, we are guilty, therefore, if we continue on the same path, we are doomed. Sad...soooo sad.

I prefer to have hope. Hope in our inginuity...faith in our spirit.

The illegale immigration debate is an issue that is far larger than either government would care to admit to. There are issues on both sides of the border, and the only way that can be best summed up about the problem is to refer back to history and the slave trade. Now when the slave trade was in full force, it formed a triangle, ships would transport slaves to the new world, there the ships would be loaded up with rum, only to return to Europe and then return to Africa with bibles and take on more slaves. It was a very messy business, that eventually was outlawed by all principle governments involved. Now you have the new triangle of illegale trade and activity happening and it is more along 2 governments who should take responsiblity for the actions on their side of the border. In the United States, yes the drug trade is part of the problem, but at the same time the other part of that problem is Mexico. In the United States, we have all but lost the drug war, billions are spent on the message don't do drugs, yet only a fraction are spend on prevention and treatment of those who are hooked on drugs. That leads to multiple repeat offenders, that lead to greater crimes. Those who sell drugs in the US often will accumulate massive amount of money along with weapons to protect and use to send such back south of the border. On the Mexican side of the border, the problem is that corruption runs rampid at all levels of government, from the police force on up to the government and in the military. They do have parts of their government that will often advise people how to skirt the laws of the US and break into the country illegally, these routes often used by the cartels who will follow, or will find other means to do such.
The solution is not going to be popular, nor politically convient and will hurt on both sides of the border. The first thing is that Mexico needs to get its act cleaned up, a department that is untouchable and beyond reproach or question of corruption. They need to advise its citizens not to go into the United States illegally and to work within the laws of the country, working with both businesses, the department of Immigration and the department of homeland security, stating to its citizens, if you break the law, we can not and will not help you. But by working with businesses, and the different departments, they can help expidite the path of citizenship, as their has to be background and medical checks on the people coming into the US. On the US side of the border, the solution is a bit more complicated and will hurt far worse, the first is to end all Sanctuary cities and states. Any city or state that has a Sanctuary city or offers sanctuary should not only lose all federal aid, but also be fined, and I mean fined where it hurts the state and it is no longer advantageous to break the law. All illegale immigrants would have to go home, and there is a reason for this, the main reason is that if the illegale immigrants are a very important part of society, then a 2 weeks not being around would reflect in businesses and they would be forced to work with in the laws. The borders need to be secured, no matter what, or the concern, where there are no longer parts where people can pass through easily without anyone knowing. The idea of a wall going from the West Coast to the Gulf is one that needs to be done, along with in ground sensors to hear any digging underneath. On the front when it comes to drugs, the money should be spent more on treatment for getting those off of and remaining off of such, that way it would cause the need and want for such to go down. And all of the laws need to be enforced, no matter what. The days of choosing to ignore the laws can no longer be allowed to happen.

Originally posted by jam321
Seems Americans with drug habits are sending more money than illegals.

American drug policy is the real problem.

Not only does the illegality of drugs create violence but it also gives powers to criminals and criminal groups in Mexico.

To the OP,

What makes you think that Mexico even wants to do something about Illegal Immagration?

Think about it for a second.

If you are one of the wealthy that run Mexico, and you see that all of your lower class citizens, and felons are running as fast as they can to the neighboring country, who only has a token force in place, to stop them, would you stop them? The lower class cant give you anything, from their point of view, and the felons are the dregs of society as is, so whats to loose from them leaving? If the lower class leaves and sends money back to his family, then that improves the economy of your country. That coupled with the loss of your criminals, and the willingness of the immagrants to haul drugs over the border, Where is the down side for them? They arn't gonna change a damn thing. Even if they could.

(My apologise to all National Guard, Border Patrol, and Police Departments for the "who only has a token force in place" statement above, this is not meant as a dig at you. You are doing the best you can with what you have, and my a heartfelt thanks, and best wishes go to you. This was meant as a dig at the government of this country for not allowing you the "men and means" to get the job done.)

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by assasinforfather

 

This debate has turned us against each other when it is Mexico who should answer to us about this issue, not the prez.

I agree with the first part of the statement. But it is my understanding our banks have done much to keep Mexico under their thumbs. Loans to Mexico are usually just interest payments between these U.S. banks. Ledger entries. Most of the funds never reach Mexico.

The US has the most security it has ever had on the border and can't do it. Furthermore, Mexico has all its manpower tied up in the War against drugs.

Here's where I disagree with you, my friend. As a US Army veteran of the 1960's, our military could take total control of the entire border within 30-60 days. As a former (or current) US Marine, you know this to be true. You're telling me after what Marines accomplished in the Pacific in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, the U.S. Marine Corp could not handle the securing of the southern border with Mexico is beyond belief. C'mon Jam!!!

What you call "The US has the most security it has ever had on the border" is what most folks call a sieve and it is that way intentionally. If our leaders wanted to shut down the border, nothing within 10 miles of the border would go unnoticed by our military. No one would cross and the first time a drug cartel fired upon US military and/or local LEO's, I'd cut loose 6 Apache helo's and a few A-10's on their sweet butts and teach them a lesson they would never forget. They may not come back for second dose of reality, but if they do, I'd have CBU's ready and waiting. Iron rain gains immediate respect by all recipients.

Any President with a pair and the desire, could have that border shut down so tight a friggen ant couldn't cross. So in my mind all this back and forth about being able to shut down the border is total political BS. Total BS.

As for the 12 million already here, fingerprint them all. Permanently ban those with criminal records, send the balance to the END of the immigration line, and set up a workers program if more undocumented's are needed once the 12 million have been dealt with.

Oh, and 1 last thing, NO ANCHOR BABIES!!!

[edit on 31-7-2010 by Oldnslo]

Keep in mind the greater geopolitical strategy of the elite to usher in the North American Union through the dissolution of the southern border and blanket amnesty. This will be the crisis that is needed to bring in the NAU.

(review Judicial Watch FOIA SPP documents)

Just a point of information. My employer was deported from Costa Rica for a very minor infraction a few months ago. She returned via Nicaragua and was been caught illegally re-entering Costa Rica and is now facing 5 years in prison. Her prospects are not good.

Too bad she's not a Costa Rican illegally entering the US. The worst that could have happened is she was caught by Sheriff Joe, issued pink jumpsuit and shoes, and a bunk in a tent.

Sheriff Joe even lets them watch TV. The Disney and Weather Channels.

Beats 5 years in a Costa Rican prison for the same infraction.

I have been reading these illegal immagrants threads since I started here and one thing that I can't figure out is:

Why does the whole world seem to think that we need to be so benevolent to these illegals when, as Oldnslo pointed out, we would not get such nice treatment for the exact same infringement in their country.

Where is it stated in the Constitution, or the Declaration of Independance, that we are to be a Nation of mamby-pamby, tree hugging wusses, who will let people from other countrys walk all over us.

I know it has been stated, in practice if not in words, by most of our recently elected officials, from the mayors of the so-called "refuge cities" clear up to the President of the United States, that this is the way a humanitarian country is run, but this is NOT how the founding fathers meant this country to be run.

Most of the border thing is about drug smuggling (with human slave smuggling thrown in).

The amount of drugs coming across the border is really....uh....large. Large enough to pay off most everyone in Washington working to keep the borders open.

What has got my curiosity going is if California legalizes marijuana use (like it already isn't?).

Do the members of the California legislature really think that the Mexican Mafia will relinquish its stranglehold on the California drug business if marijuana is made legal?

Make it legal and all I see is everyone growing six foot tall pot plants in their back yards. And the Mexican Mafia harvesting the plants to sell in Nevada and Utah and Washington and Oregon and New York.

Ah, well....call me the skeptic.