Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by NoHierarchy
Oh please stop, you were claiming support without any backing whatsoever; any means of measure available to us shows that most people disagreed with
Greenpeace’s actions. To go back to the disputed comment, “it will alienate those who are affected”, the evidence shows that this was correct.
You can state it any which way you like but the fact remains that anywhere that people have commented on this the majority view is negative. Whether
it is the world majority or not it has alienated a hell of a lot of people.
Here is exactly what I said, "Most people are probably cheering them on (unless they for some partisan reason can't muster a cheer for
Greenpeace)". Note the word "probably", this means there is room for doubt. And I may be wrong, so what? My points still stand that outrage I've
seen over Greenpeace's actions is WAY beyond rational. Also, we did not take a count of all the comments on those websites so neither of us actually
know how many commenters support Greenpeace or not. If people are seriously THAT alienated over their actions... I'm seriously left scratching my
head and dumbfounded. It honestly makes no sense to me, except the possibility that most of the outraged do not think about these issues much. And if
London is anything like America in those regards, then that is probably the case. Most people I know or run into on a day to day basis are FAR from
educated on these issues, and too many are proudly apathetic. It is somewhat understandable as human nature, but to me it's not excusable considering
what we face. People cannot hide behind their ignorance and lambast people who target their preferred corporate chain-market, that's the world we
live in and people cannot act as if the places they shop at do not have larger repercussions that may well be protested. Can you suggest a more
effective method that would garner more public support?
I can't tell you what EXACTLY it has achieved, but I surely do support AT LEAST the efforts.
What enrages me most about such naysayers is their blind rage towards Greenpeace without seemingly any rational consideration for the
benefits/merits of their recent actions.
By your own admission you can’t even say what it has achieved yet you’re angry at other people because they won’t consider the benefits?!
There is zero evidence of any benefit or merit behind this action; it has alienated people, it has disrupted people’s day, it has cost people money,
it hasn’t helped anyone in the Gulf and there is no reason to believe that BP has taken any notice. In fact in relation to the latter, if BP has
taken notice they’re probably quite buoyed by the backlash against Greenpeace.
The naysayers have sound reason for their complaints, you however have no reason for your blind support.
It would be IMPOSSIBLE for me to know the full scope of the results! Is that not clear? Historically such actions HAVE had success in swaying the
public, government, and/or businesses to change their behavior whether by stopping bad behavior or starting positive behavior. What are these people
supposed to do? Yell out their windows and hope the new CEO of BP hears it?? NO! They must do something clever, public, and visible. It's not like
they firebombed the damn gas stations (which, aside from the air pollution wouldn't exactly cause me to shed any tears for BP). You still don't
realize the nature of protest, direct-action, and monkey-wrenching. Please do your homework on it AT LEAST, you may gain more respect for it instead
of stagnating in how inconvenient a closed gas-station chain is to a fraction of drivers.
I am absolutely angry at people who won't consider the benefits. I can picture it, they go to pull into a gas station, they see Greenpeace shut it
down, this conflicts with their tank-filling plans, they spit and curse and fume and this clouds their rational mind from deciding whether the larger
issues trump the convenience of their commute for a portion of a day. Outrage is to be expected, however when put into context it's not really that
important, it really just isn't. It's a minor pain in the a** for a number of Londoners, but they can always choose a different gas-station,
there's really no difference between them.
And not agreeing with some silly publicity stunt masquerading as moral action does not preclude anyone else from caring about the issues
either. Yet according to you anyone who has expressed a disagreement with Greenpeace’s actions is a whiney, spoiled, isolationist.
The notion that it was a "silly publicity stunt masquerading as moral action" is your opinion and you're entitled to it. But would you rather they
get very serious or violent? The very nature of such actions is to be non-violent, somewhat mischievous, but for the right reasons. This is why people
free animals from testing labs or graffiti a political poster or create a flash mob or liberate a billboard... it's largely innocent, it all has its
place, it's fun/effective and it's better than doing nothing. I must ask you one thing though- if the outraged motorists truly cared about the
issue... why the hell were they buying gas at BP?? And don't give me that "to keep them buoyant so they can pay for the cleanup" propaganda. Yeah,
that is the impression I get from the raging comments about Greenpeace's actions- they're being whiny and spoiled about their "right" to shop at
BP for a day or two and they're being isolationist by pretending BP's actions aren't their problem/concern... as they buy the petroleum supplied by
So in other words you are just like everyone else except you’re better than them because you lecture people while you do it? Yeah the world
really needs more people like you!
When did I say I was "better than everyone else"? Like I said, this stuff needs to be discussed and people made aware and people who shut their ears
to facts then take a stance on them are ridiculous.
No it doesn’t, you could get off the internet for a start, how much energy do you think that uses up? How much oil goes into the production
of all the components?
Using the internet/computer uses up relatively SQUAT for energy. I rarely EVER buy new things at all, let alone electronics.