ATS and Mental Illness

reply to post by Daughter2


Luckily for schizophrenia there are other symptoms that must be present in order for a diagnosis to be made. Here is that diagnostic criteria.

A. Characteristic symptoms: Two (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated):
* delusions
* hallucinations
* disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
* grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
* negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition Note: Only one

Criterion A symptom is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person's behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.

B. Social/occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset (or when the onset is in childhood or adolescence, failure to achieve expected level of interpersonal, academic, or occupational achievement).

C. Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6 months. This 6-month period must include at least 1 month of symptoms (or less if successfully treated) that meet Criterion A (i.e., active-phase symptoms) and may include periods of prodromal or residual symptoms. During these prodromal or residual periods, the signs of the disturbance may be manifested by only negative symptoms or two or more symptoms listed in Criterion A present in an attenuated form (e.g., odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).

It seems that if everyone who has a mental illness were to be banned ats would be a very lonely place....

I don't quite get the op...are we to censor ATS because some thoughts are dangerous to those who are mentally ill? I tend to only post when a thread interests me, but I spend enough time on ATS to know that many people are just trolls and not mentally ill. Balancing reason with speculation is the only way ideas and discovery's are made and a healthy questioning of things is conducive to knowledge and safety.

I don't think the medical establishment or its workers would ever have to defend themselves if so many people didn't unnaturally die in their hands, that includes the mental health field as well. Say what you want, but the deaths are there as are the unknown long term effects of psych medications. There is enough to warrant the suspicion that there is very real danger involved, good intentions or not. My brother is dead because of psych medications, so don't go preaching safety or efficacy because he died sick. Let the mentally ill post on ATS, better ranting nonsense than killed by seroquil.

Three words for you.
Freedom of speech.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by saphic]

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Well, what are psychiatrists doing that is really positive?

You still haven't addressed the negative use of psychology to promote agendas, and the psychiatrists that have agreed time and time again to participate in sick government and intel agency programs, MK-Ultra being a major one mentioned in this thread.

I'm not saying there is not an appropriate use to help people who really need it, but you have an overly bright view and so I'm trying to balance it out here.

Personally, I have grown up with a paranoid schizophrenic in my household. Always; I found it to be fascinating.

Frankly, I enjoy the rantings of the mad mind. It gives me hours of entertainment (I can tell a schizo a mile away). It was a part of my entire childhood.

How boorish this site would become without the insanity that I've come to enjoy so much. Some folks with mental disabilities astound me with their introspection and outright amaze me sometimes with their understanding of life.

Most threads here are based on outlandish claims and I have no doubt in my mind, they are paranoid schizophrenics or have some other form of mental deficiency, but who does not?

OP, take it easy. Not everyone has an affable scientific mind. I'm certainly not a grand example of that, but I submit ideological (not so much lately) comments on a regular basis at the cost of minimizing myself.

But again, what are you going to do......give a test, show proof of education, provide credentials?

Many times I have regretted posting here. Why, because of my damn medications!

Yet remember we are all human beings and we sometimes don't think before we speak (or write in this case).

It's all good.

Everyone interested in this concept should take a look at this fantastic lecture by Robert Sapolsky on schizotypal individuals and their remarkable influence on societies rise. Great minds are connect different experiences of reality and relate them to the status quo. check it out


blip.tv...

[edit on 20-7-2010 by floatingcharmer]

Whats a little delusion amongst freinds after all. We are all delusional to some degree or another or else we wouldn't be on ATS. It's just a matter of perception.

reply to post by time91


Talk to a schizophrenic who is lucid thanks to medication. Or a depressive who was on the verge of killing themselves before they saw a psychiatrist. So psychiatry can be used for evil, so can every other field of science. Physicists created the most destructive weapon known to mankind. Chemists have created such things as Agent Orange and Zyklon-B. Biologists are the ones responsible for deadly biological agents. If we were to decide that every field that has a dark past is pointless we'd be living in the dark ages again.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
I would go as far to say any member who confesses to having experiences of a mental illness should be banned.

So let's see, under your proposed regime none of the following would be able to post here:

Isaac Newton: Diagnosed with "fits."
Abraham Lincoln: Bouts of suicidal depression
Vincent VanGogh: Temporal lobe epilepsy
William Styron (author): Diagnosed and treated for severe depression
John Nash, winner of the Nobel Prize in Physics: Schizophrenia
Eugene O'Neill, winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature: Clinical depression.

Hmmm...while you're at it, why not burn down your local library and take a torch to the nearest fine art museum?




[edit on 7/20/10 by silent thunder]

reply to post by kevinunknown


Another thing I don't get. There are lots of boards here. Your description of "mental illness" is only descriptive to a very few.

Aliens and UFOs is one of them. "I was abducted by aliens"...

General Conspiracies. "a glith in the matrix"...could also apply to Conspiracies in Religions".

Conspiracies in Religions. "I am being visited by God"...

They would also apply to Introductions...

Hey, if you don't believe in the material contained in those boards, why bother ??

Why not make yourself a favor and avoid them altogether?

There are plenty of other boards here...

Breaking Alternative News
Aliens and UFOs
General Conspiracies
Other Current Events
War On Terrorism
Science & Technology
Paranormal Studies
Board Business & Questions
Introductions
New World Order
ATS Skunk Works
Political Conspiracies
9/11 Conspiracies
Fragile Earth
Space Exploration
Conspiracies in Religions
Global Meltdown
Regional Politics
US Political Madness
Aircraft Projects
Political Issues
Weaponry
Breaking Political News
Medical Issues & Conspiracies
Secret Societies
Philosophy and Metaphysics
Military Projects
Ancient & Lost Civilizations
Education and Media
Cryptozoology
Diseases and Pandemics
Area 51 and other Facilities
Predictions & Prophecies
Political Ideology
Survival
Dreams & Predictions
The Gray Area
Deepwater Disaster
Short Stories
Member PODcasts
Middle East Issues
2012
Origins and Creationism
Above Politics
Politicians & People
Links & Other Resources
Deconstructing Disinformation
Peak Oil
ATS Freshman's Forum
Disaster Conspiracies
ATS Sponsored Games & Events
[HOAX!]
SETI@home Discussion
tinWiki.org Working Forum
ATS MIX: Shows
Conspiracy Theorists
Alt. Sub. Conspiracies
John Lear, Conspiracy Master
FOIA Documents
ATS MIX: Information
Discovery of Atlantis
The View From Marrs

But perhaps, you might like the topics. Only you know. Discussing and debating is fine, everyone learns. Bashing and labelling, no one gains.

I feel I'm wasting my time writing this...

~S. An ATS member that should be banned by your rules.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
It seems to be that almost every day now we have someone writing about their experiences of mental health but with a bit of a conspiracy twist. I am talking about statements like “I was abducted by Aliens and that is why i am mentally ill” or “I might be mentally ill but that is because of a glitch in the matrix”, and “I am not mentally ill rather I am being visited by God”.

All of the above statements are what any health professional would expect to hear form a person who is living with schizophrenia. Some can be very dark statements, like the man who once told me that he could only see death and how he perceived every waking moment as if it were hell. Another thought that the TV was trying to seal her thoughts and another man once told me that everybody else was mad because they all thought he was Jesus.

When people who are living with a significant mental health diagnosis on ATS they are confronted with two things that could be dangerous in their fragile state of mind. The first is an entire forum detected on the most part to expose medication as being unnecessary and even dangerous, it talks about how it can make us ill and even control us. The second danger comes from the people on ATS who fuel their psychotic delusions and build further mistrust in the health services. Sometimes people on ATS try to convince people who talk about a mental illness that they are not mentally ill rather they have some type of special incite or are being subjected to some form of mind control.

These claims to not benefit that person in anyway regardless if they are going through a psychotic period or not, they cast doubt over their very diagnosis and can encourage them to stop taking their medication. Its highly unethical and I suspect the only reason some ATS members like to give alternative explanations about what mental illness is, is because they are ignorant. I bet none of you would tell any relatives you may have who are living with a mentally illness that they are not mentally ill but just hearing the voice of God.

My own views are very much fitting with the status quo I believe what the medical community says about mental illness to be true. I also think that it would be advisable for any thread about mental health on ATS to be subject to the increased monitoring like the 9/11 forum. I would go as far to say any member who confesses to having experiences of a mental illness should be banned. I know that’s harsh but I really do think it’s for the best.

I once tried to argue about this on a thread about someone talking about their experiences of mental health and it’s fair to say I was flamed. It was also difficult for everyone because we all had to be sensitive to the OP. So for this reason I am starting this as a tread to discuss everyone’s views on mental illness so any views you have on any aspect of mental illness feel free to contribute.

EDIT: I should be more specific with the idea of banning people. I am only talking about people who have confessed to a diagnosis that causes delusions. But would support strong moderation of all threads about mental illness (including this one)

[edit on 20-7-2010 by kevinunknown]

Are you a qualified psychiatrist? Because unless you aren't then you have absolutely no right to judge who has a mental health issue especially ona forum when you haven't met said person.

I'm not saying that everything is true what they post but because their view on reality differs from you does not mean you should belittle them or call them out when you probably don't know the full story. That is called being a bully.

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES


I came here to talk about (and work through) some things that my psychologists/psychiatrists simply didn't have the inclination to take seriously aside from medication.

No talk therapy whatsoever - they simply didn't have the understanding of where I was coming from and how to "see" underlying metaphors and recurring symbols that I kept experiencing.

Talk about isolation and repression.

[edit on 7/20/10 by GENERAL EYES]

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but I wanted to say this: just like there are people who are bad at being teachers, there are people who are bad at being therapists.

Full disclosure: I suffer from depression, tried therapy a few times and I'm now taking medication. It has helped. I will completely admit my issues are not comparable with those others may be having. Also, I don't trust the medical industry, but there are many people very far down the ladder who have people's best interests in mind.

If anyone's considering therapy, please remember that it's, unfortunately, a shot in the dark process. Unless you know someone who can recommend someone they liked, it's more or less picking a name out of a phone book. Thus, you might not find someone good on the first try. They might not be willing to listen. They are bad at their job, try someone else. It really, really sucks to lay your mind out to someone and have them not listen and it's even worse to think about doing it again for someone new. But, if you're willing to take such a step don't be discouraged by the first try.



[edit on 7/20/2010 by SaulGoodman]

The OP has been a member of ATS but a few months and already is suggesting that certain members be banned? How elitist of him! I find no proof that psyco-babble Drs are "curing" our mental illnesses st all with their mind-altering drugs. Indeed many poor souls have killed themselves under "professional care".

No one needs to be banned on ATS. I would agree that some are able to handle the info presented here better than others. This is life. No one is banned from buying the morning newspaper, are they? Yet the paper has many sad and depressing stories every day.

Banning access is the way TPTB exert control of society. The only ones who should be banned,from ATS are those who would encourage someone else be banned, IMO.



[edit on 20-7-2010 by romanmel]

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Haha very true, I agree. We need to use what we learn, even if it can be used for evil.
I guess my point is I want psychiatry to have a place in society, where people can go voluntarily, not mandated by anyone. If it is mandated it has the potential to be used against people in a way more destructive to freedom and truth than any physical weapon anyone could make. And I don't believe that anyone has the right to tell me if I'm 'normal', or sane. At least not any right more than I have to tell them that they are a fringe lunatic, with a dangerous obsession with other peoples problems.

reply to post by time91


As it stands right now, you cannot be forced into therapy. The only way the court can mandate you to seek out a therapist or psychiatrist is if you pose a threat to yourself or others. Even then the legal process must be started by a family member. If you are already seeing a mental health professional and are posing a threat to yourself or others then can also start the process to have you mandated to seek inpatient treatment.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Do you consider court ordered 'counseling' and 'evaluation' mandated? Thats what they do in some divorce cases now. Let me tell you, the people we had to go to were a little off. Again thats my experience: psychiatrists are as mental as anyone else and they rarely accomplish anything, except in extreme cases. Even then the medicines they give for a pretty basic condition (depression) have been known to cause/lead to suicide.
I'm skeptical of a subjective and imperfect practice that could be used for lots of less than noble agendas. I've already said most of this as well.
I'll leave it there.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by time91

 

As it stands right now, you cannot be forced into therapy. The only way the court can mandate you to seek out a therapist or psychiatrist is if you pose a threat to yourself or others. Even then the legal process must be started by a family member. If you are already seeing a mental health professional and are posing a threat to yourself or others then can also start the process to have you mandated to seek inpatient treatment.

I don't believe that's 100% true in some ways. A friend of mine saw a GP once - bare in mind this is a single general practioners appointment. She was told she was leaving in an ambulance, taxi, or police car and it was her choice which. This was after a five to ten minute conversation with the GP.

This occurred in Australia. She was sent to a mental hospital for two weeks and was not allowed to leave until the psychiatrist there said so. She was a little depressed and was reading a lot of religious material, but I don't know ... I'm not sure it was neccessary.

I don't agree with the OP's sentiments entirely but its been an interesting read through this thread!

So many stories of people.

Some doctors are just pill pushers, and that is a fact. I know this by personal experience, Nobody is going to break this mold because billions of dollars depend on it. The same reason Marijuana won't be legalized in michigan for depression/ anxiety... $ issues

reply to post by kevinunknown


The truth is our shared reality, that one instilled by God, Country and King is just as insane as anything out there.

One need not look very far to understand that this world is afflicted with a particular shared insanity that leads people to ‘intelligently’ and ‘sanely’ promote war, racism, deprivation, hording, and a whole range of abhorrent behaviors, that if the right person with a title bestowed by God, Country or King is promoting it’s considered perfectly normal, rational and sane, despite the fact that it usually is anything but.

Yet sadly there exist those ‘even keel’ pseudo intellectual types, who have to take this shared madness one step further, by isolating people who really aren’t keen to share this nightmare, to claim that by comparison they are sane and not a danger to themselves or others.

Of course they are usually busy ingesting carcinogens, espousing some preemptive war, embracing some intolerably cruel indifference to someone’s wholesale suffering at the hands of a insane system that rewards the bulk of everything to a chosen few at the top, at the complete expense of everyone at the bottom rungs of the pyramid.

No wonder such people need people who are different as fodder to convince them that they are perfectly rational, safe and sane!

The person, who denies everything, is essentially the same as the person who believes everything.

Neither is thinking objectively or critically, even though both imagine they are.

ATS isn’t for everyone.

“The whole world is queer but me and thee, and sometimes I wonder about thee!”

An old Irish saying, just saying!

Having said that, Freudian babble is just that, the musings of a coc aine intoxicated man, bent in incest and self loathing, who promoted a concept widely discredited and scorned by his contemporaries that has since become a preferred tool of the powers that be, to reinforce a shared reality that they create.

It’s doubtful a sole on ATS and nary one if one at all on the entire planet actually knows the true nature of our universe and the real purpose and meaning of our existence in it.

The truth is the greatest danger to us all, are those that believe this insane system we all live under of excessive taxation, excessive laws that create nanny states, while lying to themselves they are freer than the next guy, and saner than the next guy, are the greatest danger of them all.

Quite the conundrum if you ask me!