ATS and Mental Illness

Please stop rehashing old threads. I have noticed a lot of your threads seem o give your opinion on something that is already being discussed. Oz the weatherman had already made a thread regarding this. Also I take it your not a healthcare professional. I for one enjoy and learn a great deal about people and their mental illness.
Sorry but I see you preaching or moderating alot recently, especially about topics already covered. And I also believe that you don't have the right to decide what is put on ATS, if you don't like it don't read it. Sorry for te rant but I'm fed up with people making pointless threads regarding telling people what they can write or how they feel.

While I don't personally agree with banning those with avowed psychoses or delusions, I do think that we as a community have a responsibility to rationally (and with an open mind, by the way) urge those who may be psychotic or delusional to at least consider seeking professional mental health assistance.

The problem, in my opinion and experience at least, is that delusions are often ingrained in personal beliefs, principles, and ethics. People are extremely protective of their beliefs, principles, and ethics - as well they should be, in the absence of any obvious mental issues. Unfortunately, since people view their principles and beliefs as simply being "who they are," they are often unwilling or unable to perceive them objectively as being even potentially delusional or psychotic.

People often come to feel as though they have special insight, wisdom, or knowledge from... somewhere. Or something. Knowledge or insight which justifies actions, (or inaction,) thoughts, and feelings on their part which would otherwise, at least potentially, be irrational, unhealthy, or in a worst case scenario, harmful to others or themselves. People want to feel special, or as though they are a part of something greater than themselves. In the quest to satisfy that need, people can sometimes mistake delusional thinking and perceptions for "special knowledge." And because they simply feel that this "specialness" is either inherent to who they are, or the result of a real experience, they cannot or will not even entertain the possibility that they are delusional.

Don't mistake my meaning. While I'm a skeptical person, I'm also extremely open minded. In the absence of proof, I would never call someone delusional for claiming to have had a fantastic or profoundly transformative experience - or even for claiming that that experience or some facet of their nature gives them access to insight or knowledge that others lack. I am absolutely open to the possibility. I just feel we have a responsibility to likewise urge those who feel that to be the case to at least seriously consider the equally valid possibility that their mental health might be in question. If the truth is their goal, then that is a possibility that must be considered. If they resist considering it at all, or become paranoid toward the person suggesting the possibility, then to me that further suggests the possibility of some sort of mental instability.

I am not saying this as an outside observer looking in. While I have never been psychotic or, strictly speaking, delusional, I do suffer from clinical depression and social anxiety disorder, and years ago, in my isolation and misery, I was on what I would call "the edge" of entertaining those types of thoughts. It had more to do with naivete on my part due to isolation and negative thinking produced by depression than anything else, but I have experienced "the edge" of paranoia, and immediately sought help (which is how I discovered I was depressed and socially anxious as well.) That was years ago, and much to my great relief, I have not suffered such paranoiac thinking again, as a direct result of the therapy and treatment I received, and continue to receive.

I only share my experience, as admittedly embarrassing as it may be (though it shouldn't be; there is no shame in having psychological issues,) because I'm hoping people reading this will consider that psychologists and psychiatrists are not the controlling, societal-standard-enforcing "quacks" many seem to fear they are. I'm sure there are some poor mental health professionals who might meet the definition of those criteria, but in my experience they are just people who want to help you if you'll let them.

Fortunately, I wasn't truly delusional. I just suffered from depression and social anxiety (and still do technically.) I have a long way to go before I will be comfortable in public, social situations, but I feel a lot healthier, happier, more fulfilled, and much less hopeless and paranoid feeling than I once did. My point is this: if I hadn't considered the possibility, I wouldn't have gotten help. And there are people much, much worse off mentally than I was. There are people who are truly psychotic, and don't know it.

Delusions and psychoses exist. Unlike many of the phenomena we discuss here (while I do believe in some of them, and am at least open minded about all of them,) we can categorically, empirically assert that they are real. They are, in essence, a conspiracy against you, by you. That's why they are so insidious. They should not be dismissed, and we have, I feel, a responsibility to stress the possibility of their influence on our membership's wellbeing to at least as great an extent as we do more exotic phenomena.

Just my two cents. I respect everyone's opinions.

[edit on 7/21/2010 by AceWombat04]

Originally posted by kevinunknown
Read the edit I am not talking about everyone with a mental health diagnosis I am talking about people on ATS who come on and say something to the effect of. “ I have been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and last night I was abducted by aliens who told me i am a their profit”. For people like that ATS is not the best place.

And another thing, the banning thing is a very small part of my threat feel free to comment on the rest of it.

Sorry for jumping in guys I didnt read the whole thread.

A question.. is someone paying you for this? Your smug attitude and strong statement that the mentally ill should be banned from a public forum is fishy or insane in itself. If I'm not mistaken there are laws against discrimination. As long as they are abiding by the rules here on ATS they should be fine. People have a right to do what they want. Whether it fuels their mental illness or not isnt any of your business nor is it anyone else's, like I said, as long as they're going by the rules.

Read the ATS terms and conditions

wiki: Freedom of speech

How about I play psychologist.

DR unknown, It sounds like you have issues with freedom and you believe folks with different opinions or are mentally ill should be forcibly controlled and medicated. You have to understand not everyone has to think like you. You have to accept the fact that everyone is an individual. Dr, we are advancing in the medical world, not degrading back to the way we used to treat the mentally ill in the asylums.
I think I'll prescribe you a copper supplement to loosen your mind up a bit. Read about it here taking note of the paragraph on copper toxicity: Copper /sarcasm for liability purposes











[edit on 7/21/10 by TheMadHatter]

[edit on 7/21/10 by TheMadHatter]

Click here for more information.

Lately I've wondered about a few people, on the other end of the conversation. One thing for certain mentel illness should never be taken lightly. That said, ATS is just an extension of the universe in which we live.
Can't ban people from the universe.

If a person is feeling quite assuredly sane in this mad world, I wouldn't expect to see them post or read ATS. We seem to be clinging on to a mad train rushing down a mountain into the darkness of uncertainty. Strange things are happening to people and I expect it will become even more complex for us all. Strange will be more the rule than the exception. 'Crazy' may become epidemic. Hey, that's gloomy.

I just want to add my voice to the "no" column on the possibility of limiting and banning people diagnosed with certain types of mental illness.

No, I do not have one. My interest is not personal, but in fairness itself.

Even people with mental illnesses that can cause hallucinations have lucid periods, and why should they be punished indefinitely for their illness, for one thing.

Secondly, I am not convinced that all people who are "delusional" really are. If we dont consider belief in invisible Gods and miracles delusional, why pick on people who believe in other "unseen" and "unheard" (by others) things?

They certainly arent harming me, even if they truly ARE delusional, I have my own mind, my own will, and I am opposed to stomping all over theirs.

Its an internet site, that deals in some weird #. An argument could be made that all of us here are a little looney by the mainstream. Err on the side of freedom.

I dont understand why banning people for this reason is such a subtle discussion. Where is all the flaming? This is ridiculous.

Say no to psychiatry

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by MemoryShock

 

Well you a moderator.

If you are hearing voices that are the result of a diagnosed psychiatric conduction 24/7 then I would have to say you should be banned. I think it should be done as a matter of corporate responsibility on behalf of ATS. Luckily however that is not for me to decide so your safe.

Your Avatar suggests you are not confident iof what you are in your own mind, which we possess, so please let us know---which is Witch, Biatch?

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

A healthy lifestyle only goes so far. Just wondering where you accusing me of using NLP, I was accused of that once. I am not pushing for the big prahma companies i just think that there are not pharma conspiracies.

You don't think there are any pharma conspiracies? Not like, say, this one?
Bayer sells AIDS-infected drugs

Or this one?
Fed tackles tainted drugs from China

I won't even bother linking to articles showing drugs pulled from the market because they weren't properly tested, there are 100's of those articles...

Pharmaceutical companies, ironically enough, have a track record showing a disregard for the safety and health of their customers. Oh savor that sweet, bitter irony...


So why would you put it past them for mental-illness drugs to be any safer?

NEXUS

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I have a mental illness called schizo-affective disorder. Basically it's a little schizophrenia mixed in with bi-polar disorder. Delusions are a component. At the present time I see a psychiatrist every three months. I see a psychotherapist once a month. I don't take any medication. I stopped last year after I blacked out for the third time from my medication. I was taking zyprexa.
I tried taking lithium for about a year, closely monitored(blood levels), I couldn't drink enough water, the dizzy spells and nausea were unbearable. Today I use spiritual healing. Being Native American helps. I have relatives that do spiritual healing on a regular basis. Basically we sweat in the sweat lodge alot. Three to four times a week. In there we sing songs to the Creator, pray and give thanks. This helps a great deal. I have hallucinations both auditory and visual, I ignore them. It took me a long time to get to this point. Oh, and I've never seen a ufo either hallucinatory or real.

One other thing, I would never advise anyone to stop taking their medication. Talk it over with your doctor first. My doctor was dead set against it, but he also knew about my sensitivities to these medications. So in the end he relented. You have to maintain contact with people, I think that is the key, good support.

"Mental illness" is commonly used to describe people who don't quite fit into what society expects of them.

"Mental illness" usually means "don't ask anymore questions. Just accept there is something wrong with this person, and not the world we live in".

It is the swamp gas of psychology.

Originally posted by alonzo730
One other thing, I would never advise anyone to stop taking their medication.

I wouldn't either. It's specifically designed to make you lose it if you stop cold turkey. Then they say "look what happens when you stop taking your medication".

Doctor's aren't there to help you, people. They're there to push drugs onto people on behalf of big pharma.




[edit on 21/7/10 by NuclearPaul]

There are many problems with this OP.

Many times, people who have seen/experienced the paranormal react strongly from fear due to the programming of good vs evil in our society. When they try to get 'help' they are labelled as paranoid or schizophrenic, etc. etc. and given pills. Sometimes these pills can actually CAUSE hallucinations!

I have a problem with people being diagnosed as schizophrenic for two reasons:

1. Mental disorders are diagnosed thru a means of ruling out what you do NOT have. "Patient does not have a, b, c, or d, however, does have e, f and g. Therefore Patient diagnosis is ________ ." This is a far cry from the protocol utilized to diagnose a medical condition!

2. Western science is flawed and we are unable to test everything that IS present. We do not have the tools to determine if a person has been born with or developed skills that allows one to percieve that which is impercievable to the average human. Maybe what they are seeing and hearing is actually present!

This list could go on for a very long time. Especially since the DSM keeps getting revised and names of mental disorders change or get added all the time.

I've had severe depression since my husband was killed nearly 20 yrs ago. I have seen reptilians since I moved to Vegas. I have heard the voices and seen the shadows of spirits. I talk to GOD and Angels frequently as well as hear their responses. I can make objects move with my mind. Sometimes, I can communicate with people telepathically. I have visions of events that are going to take place that actually happen.

I'm not taking any medications for any of these things. Would you have me banned?


BTW: I am a Minister and earned my Ph.D. as a Psychologist in 1998.

[edit on 7/21/2010 by Nivcharah]

reply to post by Nivcharah

There are people here suggesting OP is in the mental health industry I truly hope not as he demonstrates very little empathy or sympathy for people with mental health disorders theres more to dealing with the mentally ill than the contents of text books.I was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 1998 I do have auditory voices 24/7/365 and visual hallucinations(which my elaborate delusional framework describes as being able to see the spirit world).I do not suffer from elaborate story lines and am for all intensive purposes sane but OP would probably have me banned.I also have an IQ of 160 and find this one of the few websites that can entertain my intellect due to intelligent people being here,The All Roads lead to Rome thread ,timeline collapse thread and others have people with cutting edge commentry on quantum physics,mechanics,philosophy etc.I have noticed OP on other threads such as the glitch in the matrix thread casting dispersions on those that view reality 'differently' to him.Yes there are episodal people that are out of control but one tends not to find them here,there are two sites I can mention where the bat# crazy congregate but ATS is not on the list.

You would have the mentally ill banned from this site?

According to Psychiatry everyone on this site is mentally ill.

Psychiatry isn't science.

Any neurologist can tell you that.

The APA is funded by the big pharmaceutical companies.

The APA is hardly "empircal fact."

Pharmaceutical companies pay for the APA annual conference, and pay Psychiatrists bonus checks for prescribing their drugs.

The psychiatric system in America is a social security scam for the most part.

No matter what you're diagnosed with, you will be prescribed anti-psychotic medication. This is the chemical lobotomy of the frontal lobes of the brain.

Psychiatry creates mental illness.

The human brain has something called neuroplasticity.

Anti-psychotics "freeze" the neuroplasticity of the frontal lobes. In order to compensate, the brain goes haywire and grows something that are called noise circuits around the frozen sections in order to compensate.

When one goes off of anti-psychotics, the noise circuits and unfrozen neurons fuse and the original problem exponentially grows.

This is why when someone has an episode, and they go off of their meds, the next episode will be worse.

Furthermore, the type of brain damage to other untargeted parts of the brain is the same as the drug amphetamine, hence symptoms like TD in long term patients.

The logic of most anti-depressants (SSRIs) goes something like this- if you're depressed, then it must be related to serotonin. So you just up your serotonin levels. This stretches your brain out of whack like a rubber band losing its elasticity. It is as primal as the idea that if you're having computer problems, you just increase the power level to your computer. Of course, this fries many circuits and destroys the motherboard.

Mood stabilizers don't really do much damage, but psychiatry doesn't understand how they work. Lithium is not understood whatsoever. The other mood stabilizers are really in fact temporal lobe eplileptic medications. It is not known why they work either, just that they do.

Anti-anxiety medications are addictive.

Seroquil (an anti-psychotic) is prescribed as a sleep aid, because of its sedating properties.

Psychiatrists are like crack dealers trying to find new customers.

The treatment of bi-polar disorder went up 4000 percent in ten years.

Anti-psychotic medications are now required for bi-polar disorder, not just mood stabilizers. When someone isn't manic or depressed, they are required to stay on the anti-psychotics (just in cast something happens). An analogy is a dentist telling you he is going to pull your teeth out so you won't get cavities. This insures psychiatry that their bi-polar patents will eventually turn into shizoaffectives (which is having bi-polar disorder and schizophrenia at the same time).

Someone who says that this site will somehow "cause" the mentally ill to lose their mind is just plain ignorant.

Someone who is truly mentally ill will lose their mind regardless of the environment. This is because mental illness is a structural and/or biochemical abnormality of the brain.

Psychology is used for the treatment of personality disorders which can be overcome without medications. It isn't "medical" like Psychiatry.

However, both are like a game of Mad Libs. The psychiatrist or psychologist asks you a series of questions (noun, verb, adjective, etc.) When you're done, they read you back the completed Mad Lib and the story sounds like it makes sense.

However, no matter what words you told the doctor, or how your story reads back, the last thing provided is the actual title of the story of the Mad Lib which will be a psychiatric diagnosis. It's a game of loaded questions.

I'm not saying there isn't mental illness. There truly is. But what Psychiatry has evolved into is a total fraud. It is without a doubt the most corrupt and immoral segment of modern medicine. Ban the mentally ill?

Better ban low IQ as well if you do.

I'd say most of us here would have a Schizoid Personality (Disorder) or a Schizoaffective Disorder

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by Fractured.Facade

 

Sorry but i think any thread that says “your medication is bad for you” or “they control you through your medication” cannot be a therapeutic thing for anyone with any type of illness as it always casts some doubt over what you are taking. This feeling of doubt is multiplied exponentially by someone with a severe psychiatric diagnosis.

I have a friend that was diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia 10 years ago. Her mother was a "naturalist" and would rather her take lethal doses of vitamins to heal her body than allow her (20 at the time) to take any sort of medication to "screw with her mind."

She was my best friend growing up and we had spent nearly every day together, but after she snapped, I could barely see her anymore. She even missed my wedding. All because her mother poisoned her mind with very logical sounding advice that they could naturally cure her illness.

She was lucky... SOMEHOW, she found a man who she ended up marrying, despite severe agoraphobia among other severe symptoms... this man and all of her friends, finally convinced her to take the medications her doctor had been prescribing her for many years.

Within months she was healthy. She now has a beautiful family and a wonderful husband, who we all thank every day...

It's too bad she lost 7 years of her life because her mother's insistence that medications are the devil and she could cure it with vitamin B.

Quite a diverse range of opinions on this topic, I see.

I'll admit, anxiety disorder runs in my family, and if I'm not careful, the internet can be a pretty potent trigger for attacks. Having said that, over the years, I've learned to develop a healthy bullsh*t filter that I apply on a daily basis and it tends to get me through

The problem, in my opinion, with labelling sites, such as ATS, as "dangerous" to those with mental disorders is that it opens up a myriad of opportunities for those who would like see ATS, et al, closed (or at the very least, labelled "dangerous") to see their wish fulfilled. A prospect I'm sure most of us would like to avoid.

It's not a big leap to get from "ATS bans people because of the risk to their mental health" to "ATS is a risk to mental health". Rest assured, there are plenty of people out there who would like to see us all labelled as crazy and have every site like this permanently shut down.

If that day ever comes, we're all in very deep, deep trouble.

edit:grammar (damn you, grammar!)

[edit on 21-7-2010 by Nyteskye]

kevinunknown is a disinformation agent that wants you back under control of TPTB...LOL

Seriously though, banning people who admit to a diagnosed mental condition will just stop them posting about their condition, also banning them won’t stop them reading ATS so I don’t see any gain.

If you read about the fine line between creativity and mental health I think you will realise that many of these borderline people do have a lot to contribute. Lots of people I know have some sort of obscure belief, things ranging from strong vegan views to believing in ghosts etc. I don’t think it’s my place to judge them. You do seem to be drawing a hard line across a very grey area.

I think you also fail to take into account the number of troll posts that end up on ATS (and every other forum). You really can’t be alarmed by every poster claiming to be Jesus or an Alien as most of these people are likely to be sane and just trying to stir you up.
Offcourse posting about banning people with mental health issues on ATS looks pretty troll like too.......