Get Your Permit: Silver Iodide Weather Modification is REAL

reply to post by neformore


I know you directed this to muzzleflash, but his/her post was in reply to Stewie...who offered "his" --- 'assessment' --- (flawed, and mis-remembered as it is) initially.

It abounds, in various topics....WE (the ones here who actually do have the life experience to offer, present, and share) are dissed as "dis" (to borrow what Stewie said 'he' just coined)...and it continues, ad infinitum.

Regardless the amounts of facts, material and supporting evidence, the true "Believers" simply refuse to take any understanding from any of it...at least, the most vocal ones. Hoping that some who just "lurk" are getting the whole story, though.

THIS thread is prime example of what's wrong, in many types of discussion, not just this one...the OP's point had NOTHING to do with the prevailing hoax that is called the "chemtrail phenomenom" by the "chemtrail" advocates. Yet, it was steered in that direction, very early on, by those who continue to BEAT THE DRUMS on bad, poorly-documented and just plain wrong 'pseudo-science' of these alleged "chemtrails".

Apparently, it has become so entrenched, by now, that no amount of information can hold sway over the infestation that this subject has become, because of shysters like "Cliff Carnicorn", and his types, on the internet.

reply to post by neformore

What is "chemtrails in the everyday sense"?
Does that mean the wackiest, most diabolical sense? Or the "carnicon" sense?

I am quite sure on ATS, EVERYTHING has probably been discussed and debated ad nauseum. On Chemtrail threads, the "dis", as I recall, have pretty much stuck to "dissing" people that question the unusual amount of "contrail" material in the atmosphere these days.
In fact, the "party" line is THIS. NOTHING we SEE is unusual.
Right?

So, I will believe that statement is false, if that is alright, until the time that we all know better. YOU believe that will never happen, I believe it will.

Comprende?

Originally posted by neformore

Would you like to retract your claim?

No. I don't recall those threads.

And you took my comments out of context trying to bait me. Nice move?

My statements were about when I talked about weather modification, I was attacked relentlessly.

Did I say Phage attacked me? NO.
Phage has always been very friendly to me and always helped me learn new things and shared info with me. He has never been rude to me ever. He IMO is a respectful person who almost never ridicules people.

I never said Weedwhacker did anything either.

For god's sake they are both on my friends list for at least 2 years + now. I almost always enjoy talking with them and or debating or simply reading their opinions/ideas. It's always a great fun time.

I was only speaking about those whom ridiculed me when I brought the subject up. And I have never been able to talk about it without being attacked multiple times.

And yes those whom did ridicule me for it, were 100% hard core about it and willing to go to any length.

Hell I got ridiculed on this very page , but the mods removed his comment as off topic. He called me a kooky chemtrailer or something. Even though I am not a chemtrailer at all.

Why am I being called a chemtrailer when I am merely speaking about weather modification being a fact in the first place?

This PROVES my assertion was factual. So NO i Will NOT take it back. But I will clarify and say I was not mentioning (or even thinking about) Phage or WeedWhacker when I said that comment.

Thanks for sharing the links though, I'll read them in more length now.

Also the word "Chemmie" is very offensive and harsh. It's the N word basically IMHO.

How many people flung the "chemmies" insult around? IN THIS THREAD? Tons!

Therefore, my comment will NOT be retracted.

Originally posted by aspx
Under the guidelines of the Clean Water Act by the EPA, silver iodide is considered a hazardous substance, a priority pollutant, and as a toxic pollutant.
Chronic Exposure/Target Organs: Chronic ingestion of iodides may produce “iodism”, which may be manifested by skin rash, running nose, headache and irritation of the mucous membranes. Weakness, anemia, loss of weight and general depression may also occur. Chronic inhalation or ingestion may cause argyria characterized by blue-gray discoloration of the eyes, skin and mucous membranes. Chronic skin contact may cause permanent discoloration of the skin

Silver Iodide is not mentioned in the Clean Water Act

Silver Iodide is not a "Priority Pollutant"

Originally posted by muzzleflash
[

Dude I almost always take major heat any time I talk about the REALITY of weather modification.

They slam into me hard, and often times I end up feeling terrible and totally retarded (Because you know they Make it a point to make sure you end up feeling embarrassed and totally retarded).

Yes they are backpedaling. Last month you would get chewed out for even attempting to mention WEATHER MODIFICATION SPRAY PROGRAMS.

But today ? "Of course it's a fact everyone knows that since 1950!"

Nope WRONG.

No one knows about weather modification. Go ask your neighbor, 99% chance says he never heard of it.

99% of Society on Earth never heard about it before.

99% of the population had no idea that the weather was being fully manipulated.

Weather Mod is NOT taught in public schools.

Weather Mod is almost NEVER on Mainstream News.

It is a super rare unknown fact by almost all of the population.
The conspiracy is that very fact. It's been hidden from view because the public would panic.

Yes the public would panic if they found out a large amount of the weather they "thought was natural" is actually artificially induced through airborne modification sorties.

Me? I personally want weather modification Outlawed. It needs to stop. We are ruining our habitat with our foolish attempts to control it.

I am just so happy about the back tracking going on though!

It means we are winning the battle against ignorance and that people are waking up to a nice human-induced rain shower.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by muzzleflash]

How do you know about the reality of attempts for Weather Modification? Do you actually have any experience in it? How is it that all of you conspiracy theory types, who have no knowledge of aviation, meterology, or cloud seeding programs, but claim to know more about it than us pilots who have actually flown aircraft into thunderstorms for this

And yes, it is taught in a public university. University of North Dakota has two classes in Weather Modification in their Aerospace Studies program.

And its not secret like you imply. I have taken part in two BBC documentaries about it, been in newspaper articles. and the local newspaper had a front page story about it last year. Air and Space magazine has had stories about it, these companies have web pages advertising for their services.



[edit on 20-7-2010 by firepilot]

Originally posted by firepilot

Silver Iodide is not mentioned in the Clean Water Act

Silver Iodide is not a "Priority Pollutant"

www.nature.nps.gov...

This link says the Clean Water Act designates it as a priority pollutant.
It's a .gov link.

Under the guidelines of the Clean Water Act by the EPA, silver iodide is considered a hazardous substance, a priority pollutant, and as a toxic pollutant.

en.wikipedia.org...

Also check out this which is sourced.

Phyllis A. Lyday "Iodine and Iodine Compounds" in Ullmann's Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry, Wiley-VCH, Weinheim, 2005

Originally posted by muzzleflash
How is chaff even in this thread?

Chaff is a bunch of metallic reflective objects that confuse radars.

What does it have to do with this topic? I really want to know.

Are you saying Chaff causes weather modification? Because I disagree, it does not cause any differences to the weather.

For example in WW2, I heard they would use bubble gum wrappers (foil ones) as chaff and it worked great.


Wait I take it all back, your right.

Chaff is weather modification.

It makes it rain aluminum foil - that's kind of like weather. . In a very limited and brief manner. Sorta.

Actually chemtrail believers try and insist chaff is something that you "spray". That is a something they totally made up, because its aluminum as you mention, and its meant to confuse radars. How they turned that into a sprayable power for weather purposes, I have no idea.

But if there were facts behind "chemtrails" and the inflated conspiracies behind weather modification, you would not have every possibly kind of theory behind "chemtrails"

As you mention too, you can just mix and match and come up with whatever variety of their conspiracy that ones wants. Whether its airlines, military, UFO, reptilian pilots with invisible alien spacecraft, general aviation, etc...each chemtrail believer probably has their own idea. Many of these ideas actually debunk each other.

I mean it cant be to kill off everyone, yet be also to prevent global warming, or it can flown by both the airlines, and then Reptilians from the planet Zorgon

reply to post by firepilot


You sound very confident in your claims.

But you were also sounding super confident when you said silver iodide is not classified as a 'priority pollutant' by the EPA's Clean Water Act guidelines.

So I can't trust your "confidence".

You will have to prove your claim that you were a weather mod pilot. Otherwise I think your making it up.

Like you made up that part about it not being a pollutant....

How do you support a program covering 31 MILLION ACRES in Texas ALONE with small quantities and consider that to be a small area? How do you keep (one particular fleet of) 35 air planes, in the air and operational, daily, using small quantities? One of the posters here who claims to be an expert says that each flare holds 150 grams of silver iodide. There are 20 of those flares on each air plane. Thats 3 kilos of #2 MSDS Health Rating chemical dispersed in a fine mist over our skies every time each plane goes up. Again... do you think they keep 35 planes to use a new one each day of the month and the other 5 on holidays? Do you think weathermodification.com is the only company involved? If we can assume each plane makes it to the sky each day at weathermodification.com. That would be 105 kilos of silver iodide mist DAILY. I know if someone dispersed that much silver iodide into your bedroom while you sleep; you'd probably be dead. Dispersed into the atmosphere, repeated daily exposure, it has to be having SOME KIND OF effect upon wildlife, plants, people... something. No?

Did you not pay attention to how I told you these aircraft operate?

Just because there are 35 aircraft, does not mean 35 aircraft are flying each day, it does not mean there is this fleet of aircraft based in Fargo North Dakota heading into the skies each day.

That is aircraft they have on hand, that can be sent out to project areas. Canada has 3, there are several in Saudi Arabia, and several in North Dakota. 3 may go to california for the winter snowpack seeding

They fly into VERY SPECIFIC weather conditions, - growing thunderstorms. Those planes actually fly very little hours in a year, because most of the year they are just parked for the winter. Look at the Cessnas and Pipers for the North Dakota project. They are on project for 3 months, on standby for thunderstorm seeding.

You want to hold on to this fantasy of this fleet of airplanes all flying every day, but thats not how it works and I tried to explain it to you. Most of those weather mod projects that they get hired for, are just 3-5 months long, and its only on days with thunderstorms (or snowstorms) they will fly.

It has nothing to do with the number of days in a month or holidays, actually there are no holidays on wxmod projects. Most of these projects just use 1-3 aircraft with flight crews on standby for the right weather

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by firepilot

Silver Iodide is not mentioned in the Clean Water Act

Silver Iodide is not a "Priority Pollutant"

www.nature.nps.gov...

This link says the Clean Water Act designates it as a priority pollutant.
It's a .gov link.

Under the guidelines of the Clean Water Act by the EPA, silver iodide is considered a hazardous substance, a priority pollutant, and as a toxic pollutant.

en.wikipedia.org...

Also check out this which is sourced.

Phyllis A. Lyday "Iodine and Iodine Compounds" in Ullmann's Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry, Wiley-VCH, Weinheim, 2005

Show us exactly where that NPS.gov document states Silver Iodide is a priority pollutant?

Here is the actual list of "priority pollutants". Show me Silver Iodide

www.epa.gov...

Just because someone adds something to Wiki, does not make it true

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by firepilot

 

You sound very confident in your claims.

But you were also sounding super confident when you said silver iodide is not classified as a 'priority pollutant' by the EPA's Clean Water Act guidelines.

So I can't trust your "confidence".

You will have to prove your claim that you were a weather mod pilot. Otherwise I think your making it up.

Like you made up that part about it not being a pollutant....

Yes I am confident. I am still waiting for proof that Silver Iodide is a "Priority Pollutant", designated by the EPA

Find me ANY mention of Silver Iodide in the Clean Water Act too if you think you can.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by firepilot]

Originally posted by firepilot

It has nothing to do with the number of days in a month or holidays, actually there are no holidays on wxmod projects. Most of these projects just use 1-3 aircraft with flight crews on standby for the right weather

Hmmm.
So you are telling me, they use 2-3 cessnas, and spray something that many of you claim "may not even work very well" ; while wasting tons of taxpayer money ???

Well, no matter which way you cut it down, they are wasting our tax $$$ pointlessly on this.

I say shut the project down. And send those funds over to libraries or something that would help ignorant ppl like me have better educations.

Then the citizens might actually not be comatose.

Here I have a better idea.

If we are gonna waste tax $$ like this, just put it on the plane and dump it in the clouds.

THAT will make the populace happy, which will cause them to party, which will cause them to smoke a lot of cigs outside, which will cause a lot of smoke in the air, which will modify the weather.

So there. Dump cash $$$ instead. It's probably more effective. And maybe even cheaper too, surprisingly.

Granted I've been up about 50-ish hours straight now, I hope you can understand I am merely delirious at this point and saying silly things now for fun. Or AM I?

So who likes my strategy to modify the weather?

Dump our Tax Payer $$$ out of aircraft over cities???

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by firepilot

 

You sound very confident in your claims.

But you were also sounding super confident when you said silver iodide is not classified as a 'priority pollutant' by the EPA's Clean Water Act guidelines.

So I can't trust your "confidence".

You will have to prove your claim that you were a weather mod pilot. Otherwise I think your making it up.

Like you made up that part about it not being a pollutant....

Yes I am confident. I am still waiting for proof that Silver Iodide is a "Priority Pollutant", designated by the EPA

Find me ANY mention of Silver Iodide in the Clean Water Act too if you think you can.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by firepilot]

WTH???

I just LINKED It.

www.nature.nps.gov...

.gov websites are factual evidence or are they not???????

Please take a gander at the PDF document.

I do not like having to post a link twice and explain basic facts about .gov being official and a pdf being a legitimate document file.

You have got to be kidding me. Are you even thinking in English?

If not, I apoligize. I'll shut up. Im a jerk.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by muzzleflash]

Actually you bring up a valid point, since it is impossible to prove these attempts do increase the amount of rainfall.

And yes, these projects use general aviation small aircraft based in the project areas on standby during the time periods designated in that project area, usually 3-5 months.

However, it isnt always tax money, sometimes it is a water district that may spread the cost among the farmers, or it could be insurance companies banding together to try and lower hail damage and save money. Or a power company doing it to be able to make more hydro powered electricity

But I have flown on international projects, that I think ultimately probably were a waste of money, but because the host country wanted to micromanage it for politics and it was not very effective, instead of letting the meteorologists and pilots do it as they were trained.

Yes I read through the NPS document, I searched and found one instance of the word "priority" and it was not about silver iodide. If you found otherwise, just post the page number and let us know.

I gave you a link to the ACTUAL EPA LIST of priority pollutants. It is the EPA that determines this, not anyone else.

Can you or can you not, in that list of priority pollutants, find Silver Iodide? Can anyone?

i think this debate has came to some meaningful evaluations, all of this debate about chemtrails blah blah its a word that describes a trail of chemicals ok, silver iodide is just THAT, a trail of chemicals to start the process of cloud forming, ice crystalization.

If we can't come to any rational conclusions about what chemtrails, contrails, nontrails, whatever bunch of letters you want to tag to this phenomenon then we should look at what we do know.

The debate seems to have came to the point of this, is silver iodide safe and what are the effects its caused on the earth, should we continue to do it and why? It seems though that is not the most warrented use of time, money or resources.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by steven barnes]

silver iodide is just THAT, a trail of chemicals to start the process of cloud forming, ice crystalization.

You got halfway there, better than most have. You cant make a cloud form with silver iodide, but it is used to try to help the process of supercooled (below 0c temp) liquid water drops to turn to ice as part of the process of a thunderstorm or snowstorm

reply to post by firepilot


Well, according to this Material Data Safety Sheet,

fscimage.fishersci.com...

Silver Iodide may cause REPRODUCTIVE and FETAL affects. Thanks for bring that to my attention.

Also, a Class C toxin?,


aquafornia.com...

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by firepilot

 

Well, according to this Material Data Safety Sheet,

fscimage.fishersci.com...

Silver Iodide may cause REPRODUCTIVE and FETAL affects. Thanks for bring that to my attention.

Also, a Class C toxin?,


aquafornia.com...

What is a Class C toxin?

Funny, the EPA uses classes 1 2 3 or 4. I hope Class C is not something made up by someone who had no idea what they were talking about. I do not see anything about letter classes of toxins.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Sri Oracle

WE do NOT know that silver iodide is used for cloud seeding.

YOU, fellow long time ATS'er, know it.

I know it.

THE MASSES, on the other hand, "the collective WE"
are largely unaware
and largely "head in sand"

They should read the newspapers more often then

Thailand:
Gov't to conduct artificial rainmaking operations to ease drought in N Thailand

Australia:
Hydro's cloud seeding ineffective

India:
decks cleared for cloud seeding in Marathwada

Rain-making a failed experiment?

USA:
cloud seeding aims to increase Winter Park snowfall

Russia:
Mayor of Moscow announces plan to put a freeze on snow in the city

China:
China overdoes cloud seeding to end drought... and blankets Beijing in snow

Okay, many may not know the chemicals used or possible implications of their use (or that many meteorologists consider the techniques at best haphazard and probably mostly ineffectual - though some of the above stories indicate this), but the fact that weather modification takes place is global mainstream news.