The "Facts" of the bible and where we come from

Originally posted by evil incarnate
So it was plants, then animals, then Adam. Then Adam was lonely so God gave him animals and once Adam was there to till the soil, God gave him plants?

Unless you read a bit further and see that Adam came before the rest.

Nothing like a major contradiction in the first two chapters in a Book of Ultimate Truth, right?

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by evil incarnate
Were their multiple Gods at first?
No.

So, now we're ignoring the Bible?

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

Exodus 12:12:
For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the LORD.

Exodus 22:28
Thou shalt not revile the gods.

Numbers 33:4
Upon their gods also the LORD executed judgments.

Psalm 136:2:
Give thanks to the God of gods, for his steadfast love endures forever.

Psalm 82:1-2:
God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: "How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked?

Jeremiah 46:25
I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods.

Zephaniah 2:11
The Lord will be terrible to them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth.


Call it metaphor or whatever you like - the second one (Exodus 12:12) has God HIMSELF saying he will execute judgment on other gods. If those gods did not exist, how would He execute judgment upon them?

Unless you say that wasn't actually God talking in that specific verse, or that he didn't mean it literally...but then you've cast doubt on the whole book. I mean, it's supposed to be the LORD himself speaking, right? Aren't misdirection and falsehoods what Satan uses?


[edit on 7/19/10 by mothershipzeta]

lesson #1:

Gen 6:13 And God 430 said 559 unto Noah 5146, The end 7093 of all flesh 1320 is come 935 before me 6440; for the earth 776 is filled with 4390 violence 2555 through them 6440; and, behold, I will destroy 7843 them with 854 the earth 776.

note how the words in the verse above are followed by numbers. these are the only words that were in the original text. any words without a number after them were either added or mistranslated as you will soon see. therefore the verse would read more like this:


God said Noah end flesh come before earth with violence before destroy earth.

The translators even added the word "me" to the verse, where it was not indicated in the original language. for example, "before me" is translated from the word paniym which is described in strongs concordance as:

www.blueletterbible.org...

no where does it suggest that it means before ME. "me" suggests ownership of the act, which the translation bias inserts into the passage. it is possible that the word paniym automatically included ownership, in which case the passage is still devoid of most of the translated words, including the word "all." there are 32 words in the translated verse and 13 in the original

lesson #2:

Gen 6:19 And of every living thing 2416 of all flesh 1320, two 8147 of every [sort] shalt thou bring 935 into the ark 8392, to keep [them] alive 2421 with thee; they shall be male 2145 and female 5347.

"every" is not in the original text. this entire section: "And of every living thing" is from one word -- "chay" which simply means "alive," or "living"

that means the original text said something like this:

Living flesh two bring ark alive male female.

lesson #3:

Gen 7:2 Of every clean 2889 beast 929 thou shalt take 3947 to thee by sevens 7651 7651, the male 376 and his female 802: and of beasts 929 that [are] not clean 2889 1931 by two 8147, the male 376 and his female 802.

note that only the word "clean" is in the opening, but the "Of every" has been added by translation bias.

so the original text woulda said something like:

Clean beast take sevens male female beasts clean two male female.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by undo]

reply to post by mothershipzeta


the divine council (an excellent read on this subject)
www.herealittletherealittle.net...

That reads an awful lot like just random guessing to me. What does it seem like to you?

I do acknowledge the fact that the Bible is vague in this regard, however, using reason... if the author believed (as do I) that Adam and Eve are the ultimate descendants of every human on the planet, then all of the marriages at that point in time would be incestual by the way we percieve things now. I do not see how it could be considered a fallacy to read between the lines in one part of the scriptures (here) and not another (the gods question later on).

Actually Genesis is anything but chronological thus my questions.

Genesis 2:18-19
And the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone; I will make a help-meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.

According to that, the animals were created after Adam.

This can be attributed to the limited details in Genesis Ch1, in Ch2 details are given as to the whys of God's decisions. Man could be been created alone, yet he would be lonely, that is the why of the creation of everything. In God's infinite wisdom, he foresaw this problem and corrected it before it happened. I believe this to be the reason to why this is worded in this way.

Genesis 1:27
God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

This would suggest that they were created together, would it not?

Genesis Ch2 describes Adam being put to sleep and the rib being taken and Eve being fashioned from it, that would explain Adam BEFORE Eve.

So water or dirt?

Genesis 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Genesis 2:19
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air

I do not believe that this is relevant to the Biblical creation story, as he created all universe from will alone. That I believe is the big message there, he is above all physical laws.

Gen 2 clearly states that no vegetation had risen until God created man.

Genesis 2:4-7
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth ... And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground.

This I also see as a Microcosm of the Earth at the time, planting the Garden of Eden is a bit different than populating the rest of the world with plant life. The garden was created after Adam as a home, not the garden as the masterpiece with a human to live in its boundaries.

Then what do you make of the following?

Genesis 1:26
And God said, let us make man in our image.

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

Genesis 11:7
Let us go down, and there confound their language.

Exodus 12:12
And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment.

Exodus 15:11
Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods?

Exodus 18:11
Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods.

Continued

When talking to someone that believes that up is down and down is up, using their terminoligy is usually best. When pronouncing judgement on another cultures religion and therefore their gods, it would be assumed that God would tell them that their gods are going to be destroyed. If they believe that their gods are destroyed it would be a good way to convert peoples of those nations and faiths. Ex: If Jesus were to destroy Allah... there would be more converts than if a Christian killed a Muslim.

How do you assume that it did? Where is the trinity explained as the answer in the bible?

This is never explained quite so clearly, though I can say that I wish it were... one of the major facets of being a believer and studying scripture is not just the reading but also the praying and meditating for the answers given by God himself. I know this may sound cliche, but, in order to have the greatest understanding... it may require more effort in the search for wisdom. Wisdom > Knowledge in Christianity

Not even remotely the same thing. I am aware of the trinity, I just do not see where it is explained as the answer in the bible. I only see people guessing at things. I am more interested in how someone can claim something is 100% and then has to guess at what that truth is.

In our quest for knowledge, we expect there to be answers for everything. I honestly believe that there is not always a way to find the answer... the quest for the knowledge or the journey is the point. I will never know with 100% certainty that Cains wife was his sister, though the quest for that knowledge opens up other avenues of study and prayer. This is what growing in faith is about.

Faith is not easy, for whoever has faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.

well why just genesis....here is the second verse in the hymn to Osirus..


might find some similarities in there but it could just be me reading more into it than one might think

"Thou art the Great Chief, the first among thy brethren, the Prince of the Company of the Gods, the stablisher of Right and Truth throughout the World, the Son who was set on the great throne of his father Keb. Thou art the beloved of thy mother Nut, the mighty one of valour, who overthrew the Sebau-fiend. Thou didst stand up and smite thine enemy, and set thy fear in thine adversary. Thou dost bring the boundaries of the mountains. Thy heart is fixed, thy legs are set firm. Thou art the heir of Keb and of the sovereignty of the Two Lands (Egypt). He (Keb) hath seen his splendours, he hath decreed for him the guidance of the world by thy hand as long as times endure. Thou hast made this earth with thy hand, and the waters, and the winds, and the vegetation, and all the cattle, and all the feathered fowl, and all the fish, and all the creeping things, and all the wild animals therof. The desert is the lawful possession of the son of Nut. The Two Lands (Egypt) are content to crown thee upon the throne of thy father, like Ra.

Ra RA RAAAAAAA

reply to post by Y2KJMan


the solution to cain's wife is obvious if you read it in the original language.
the first time man is created, it really doesn't say man in the original language, it says adam (but the translators decided to use the word man there because in the same verse it refers to adam as "them" (males and females created in the image of the atum, a plural word, since it coincides with the elohim, which is a plural word). the word god in the passage is plural not singular. and the adam was not just male but there were female adam as well. in effect, it was an entire race called adam because it was created in the image of the atum (moses wrote the pentateuch. he's telling the egyptian creation story, which is the same as the mesopotamian one just slight name variations).

when egyptology tells you that Atum self-created, it really means that the Atum cloned copies of themselves, known in biblical texts as the adam. it's all the same thing.

I question why everyone seems to think on the large scale....

put adam and eve into genetic petri dishes .

you can create an entire race through cell division...

it is not all about sex...it is alot about imaculate conception ....that is the case with many god...in how it is stated as virgins.

you can put these genes into many and they al become a part of adam and eve.

i name this dish adam

i name this dish eve

just a thought so beat me up

lesson #4

Gen 1:27 So God 430 created 1254 man 120 in his [own] image 6754, in the image 6754 of God 430 created 1254 he him; male 2145 and female 5347 created 1254 he them.

ends up being:

Elohim created adam image
image Elohim created
male female created.

in all likelihood "image" was plural as well since the word for it: "tselem," can be singular or plural.
www.blueletterbible.org...

So it would read like this:

Elohim (the gods) created adam images
images Elohim created
male female created

that makes more sense, since the passage is referring to the plural "them" in reference to males and females created in the image of Elohim ,which is also plural. i guess it's just too obvious.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by undo]

reply to post by plube


2 different creations.
the first adam creation, both males and females were created in the image of the elohim.
the second adam creation, adam is made from dirt and eve is cloned from his rib

could be possible there's 2 stories mixed together with slight variations and the end result is what you see in the second adam creation.

Atum being the primal creator not the the one created....he created out the primordial.....created himself

Other Names: Temu, Tem.



Patron of: the sun, creation, rulership of the gods.



Appearance: rarely human, usually depicted as a crown or as one of his many totem animals. He is sometimes depicted as a black bull carrying the sun disk between his horns.



Description: In the creation myths, Atum is the primal creator. He created himself (or arose out of nothing) and created the first gods, Shu and Tefnut, from his spittle. The Memphite creation myth puts him as the first creation of Ptah, who simply said his name and he came into being.



Atum was revered not only as the father of the gods but also as the father of the pharaohs. The title "Son of Atum" was included in the many titles of the king, even after the pharaohs styled themselves "Sons of Ra."



Worship: Worshipped widely throughout Egypt, with his cult center at Heliopolis.



Variants:



Ra-Atum/Atum-Ra
A composite deity with Ra. The primordial creative force combined with the ruler of the gods. In this form, Atum also symbolized the setting sun and its journey through the underworld to its rising in the east.

reply to post by plube


he's self-created, which is just a way of saying, he created atums in his likeness. he cloned more of himself, et.al , adams. moses was an egyptian of hebrew lineage but still an egyptian by upbringing.

same same. these things are intimately intertwined. for exmaple, biblical nimrod was egyptian narmer before death, osiris after death. his wife, isis, was sumerian-akkadian ishtar and inana. the stories are not different, they are identical, down to the fine details. the big difference is language barrier and what's referred to as generational layering.

Ra is the akkadian Ea who is the sumerian Enki.



in the egyptian text, THE LEGEND OF THE DESTRUCTION OF MAN, Ra is likened to Ea's flying, floating, advice giving, glowing, roaring, temple, the E.ABZU, which was gold on the outside, silver on the inside, decorated with lapis lazuli. The E.ABZU was also known as the E.NUN. The nun = abzu (abyss, bottomless pit). So the egyptian nun is identical to the sumerian abzu and the biblical bottomless pit, which is the abyss. lol

don't get me started!

[edit on 19-7-2010 by undo]

Originally posted by Danbones

God is not the Creator, claims academic
The notion of God as the Creator is wrong, claims a top academic, who believes the Bible has been wrongly translated for thousands of years.

Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the Hebrew...

...She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to create" but to "spatially separate".

The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the Heaven and the Earth"

www.telegraph.co.uk...

This is in line with the original Sumerian tablets which tell the story Genesis is lifted from. The story details the battle of Tiamat and Marduc which resulted in the creation of the asteroid belt and the placing of the majority of water in the solar system on earth, according to some translations of the sumerian myth.

Look a little further to more thorough translations and you will find so much more with the first line of Genesis.

Originally posted by worlds_away
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

For true answers you would have to ask the authors, I think.

I don’t think the authors thought there would be so much scrutinizing of their work.

Imagine asking the authors those questions. They would probably stare at you thinking “What is that guy talking about? It is a book”.

I would love to see sources for the answers to these questions come from outside the Bible. (or outside of sources used to “create” the Bible.)


[edit on 18-7-2010 by worlds_away]

Seek and ye shall find...

Certainly the authors new their writings would come under scrutiny.

If you go with the "status quo" they had seen their predecessors martyred in the decades leading up to their writings.

Many of the wirtings were being challenged in their own time.

If you really want to see outside sources start seeking, the truth is out there.

Well heck if you wanted me to go back summerian text then that all you had to say....lol

Geez i would enjoy showing the true origins of mankind and the summerian experimentation taking place on the existing tribal populations of Neandethalman.

Then we could go into the actual formulation of evolution and how darwin was on the right path until the time of interference on the natural flora and fauna of earth bound lifeforms.

But i guess we better just stick with the true topic of...forget the bible....

forget Genesis.....

forget adam and eve.....

And move right onto the fact that we were happily evolving creatures of earth but the Anunaki were to tall to handle the mining conditions on Earth as we all know that taller people suffer from more backaches.

especially if your have been subjected to constent bouts of zero G.


but might just as well stick to the topic of the questions at hand huh!!!!!

lol

[edit on 19-7-2010 by plube]

[edit on 19-7-2010 by plube]

reply to post by metalholic


nvm. just had to get a couple of pages deeper

[edit on 19-7-2010 by Genesis322]

Originally posted by wx4caster
reply to post by No King but Jesus

 

oh and for those who want to get into hebrew meanings...

adam may mean mankind, but the word for god isnt a noun. its an action word, or verb, meaning that god is an action or event that took place.

keep praying to your verb, i prefer squirrels...

Slow down, I am addressing one of the OP's questions about the "earth's populous".

If you want answers don't be so dismissive when a proper answer is given.

Surely you’re intelligent enough to see how the proper usage of the word enlightens one to the subject being discussed, as asked by the OP.

We can get to the name of "God" later or in a different thread if you would like.

For now we'll work with the OP's questions in his opening thread, if that's ok with you.

Originally posted by mothershipzeta

Originally posted by evil incarnate
So it was plants, then animals, then Adam. Then Adam was lonely so God gave him animals and once Adam was there to till the soil, God gave him plants?

Unless you read a bit further and see that Adam came before the rest.

Nothing like a major contradiction in the first two chapters in a Book of Ultimate Truth, right?

As in my reply earlier one needs to know the true meaning of Adam