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Never before seen UFO photos - Debunkers?

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posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:28 PM
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As per usual I am unable to relay my point.

I have pointed out the part where he explains how he gets "his kicks" out of this.

In his own words, no less!

Anyway, I have neither the want nor the need to continue in this thread. I had a question, and I take "no answer" as an answer. Whether or not my point is seen clearly is moot.

I have my opinion on why this thread was created, and with the given evidence in the same thread I feel my opinion is validated.

(As for the "cherry picking", did you run a search too? Or did you just scrutinize my limited search? (All I did was go back 10 pages on the boards, I could have missed some
)

All well, I am out! Posting wise anyway, I assume the board will be littered with this thread for at least another 3 or 4 days. Maybe 2 or 3 since I am leaving.


No fair talking behind my keyboard, I stated why I left in this post.

EDIT (To fix: "Rely to Relay")

[edit on 7/7/2010 by adigregorio]




posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Dude, calm down. Think for a moment. Were there no gullibility, would there be kick to be had by the OP?

Are you defending gullibility on ATS?


getting one's kicks on ATS for the self indulgent amusement of other peoples' allegedly gulliibility is demonstrating actions and behaviors consistant with someone who is feeding off of other peoples gullibility.

it is not the op's intent to make ATSers less gullible, it is the op's intent to re-enforce the belief that not only are ATSers gullible, but so are people in general who believe in such photographs, of which the op has stated should not be believed at all.

the op is not exposing gullibility, he is feeding the ideologies that promote that other people are gullible in his opinion, while only relying on his opinion to make such claims.

and as for me calming down ... i didn't realize i was anywhere near upset or frustrated or anything resembling upset.

if the op wants to keep calling ATSers fools, time permitting, i will tender some measure of magneloquence to participate and promote in fashion a fruitful dialogue. Dialogue that projects some level of civil decorum.

i take my postings very very seriously, and do the utmost to collaborate with rational thinking rather than belittling remarks. Do not attack a person's character without pointing to the action and behaviors that legitimize the intentions of why someone deserves to be reffered to numerous times as "FOOL". This is not ATS.

again, post are to be taken very very seriously when making the claim that no photograph anywhere is to be trusted as material evidence when attempting to determine anything about the ufo phenomenon.

i doubt the op has seen all ufo related pictures. yet The Zomar has seen enough to discredit all ufo related pictures. logically, how much sense does that make?

yaba daba doo,
gazoo

if one is going to make the claim that no ufo photo is to be believed, then respond to posters by calling them the fools, well then...

[edit on 7-7-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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after lookin at the first 2-3 i already knew i was goin to leave you a reply explaining why couple of them looked fake, but once i read the bottom i just smiled and thought, damn, thats funny. thats the exact type of thing i do. i believe in ufo's and ghosts and etc, but what i dont believe in is people. i back your message of knowledge. if people make angry or stupid comments about that thread then theyre just mad cuz they were dooped.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:36 PM
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Since I do not believe in the existence of UFOs I was gullible enough to study each photo for anything suspicious. Me studying them proved that I too am gullible. When I reached the bold print, I couldn't help but laugh at myself.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by ChicUFO
Since I do not believe in the existence of UFOs I was gullible enough to study each photo for anything suspicious. Me studying them proved that I too am gullible. When I reached the bold print, I couldn't help but laugh at myself.


which is a desired effect the op wanted.

the op wanted you to laugh at yourself, because it fortifies his perception and belief that people are fools who are not to be believed, even if they took a picture of it.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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This has all been a sham. The OP knows I sent him all of these pictures that I have really taken with my personal camera. These are in fact UFO.s I did some time traveling to get that second picture it was a lot of work especially finding a safe place to store it till I could come back to our time and pick it up.



Thanks for the post OP and the only one when reading that I even could say looked a little real to be was the 2nd one. Though I do a lot of photoshop as well. I work for a photography place. haha.

The last one I thought for sure was a bullet hole in the window, but you made if I guess. Good work. Fooled me on making that one oh well.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by ChicUFO
Since I do not believe in the existence of UFOs I was gullible enough to study each photo for anything suspicious. Me studying them proved that I too am gullible. When I reached the bold print, I couldn't help but laugh at myself.


You were a good sport about it. We need more members like you.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
The Op did a great service to ATS. ..*SNIP*... Feeling a bit bitter? Perhaps you were initially fooled by the images Regenstorm? It begs the question!


Are you going to call me bitter or a fool? the true bitter fool is the one who efforts to attack the credibility, integrity, and honesty of the dead who took those pictures who are no longer around to speak for themselves as to the validity of their pictures.


LOL! Are you for real mate? I think you need to settle down and stop fabricating non existent scenarios. The Dead? PMSL! Talk about going off on a tangent!


If the Op thinks 5 photos photoshopped in 2010 proves 20,000+ photos from 1900 - 1990 false, the Op is ... not convincing me.


Here's the thing.. The Op isn't saying that... you are!


you are more gullible if you believe that pictures are no longer acceptible physical proof of the UFO phenomenon because somebody can make them up in 2010, then all the photos from around the world (and in space) are now not to be believed?


You're creating you own internal dialog and arguing with yourself again. I never claimed any such thing (if so point me to it). Are you hearing voices in your head or something?



can i get a sledge hammer to the head to go with that thesis?


It appears you've already had one... sorry.. only one per customer!

IRM :shk:

[edit on 7/7/10 by InfaRedMan]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 12:18 AM
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You didn't fool me.
But i agree that most of the stuff out there concerning UFOs are fake. Maybe there are real UFO photos amongst the pile of shiz out there and we just don't know it.
_/O.O\_



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by InfaRedMan
LOL! Are you for real mate? I think you need to settle down and stop fabricating non existent scenarios. The Dead? PMSL! Talk about going off on a tangent!


the claim was made that no photographs of ufos are to be trusted (op).


most ufo photographs have been taken by people who are no longer alive. so the "fabricating non existent scenarios" bit just got scrapped, because your interpretation of reality is not consistant with the facts that most ufo pictures where taken by those who are no longer alive.




If the Op thinks 5 photos photoshopped in 2010 proves 20,000+ photos from 1900 - 1990 false, the Op is ... not convincing me.


Here's the thing.. The Op isn't saying that... you are!


the Opening Post states no photographs are to be believed, does it not?
so here's the thing. The Op said exactly that. not me. i just re-worded it.here is a refresher:

Originally posted by The_Zomar

I took the time to create these images and write these stories to illustrate to the members of ATS that UFO photos are not to be trusted.
Zomar




i'd bother to read the rest of your post, but i prefer discussions based on facts, not the opposite of the facts.

i say, good day,
ET




[edit on 8-7-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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It's pretty sad this thread is continuing on in this manner.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by SaosinEngaged
 


if you think the discussion, or any specific post is not consistant with the rules of engagement according to the Terms & Conditions, and that we are off topic posting, please feel free to put your mouse clicker over the ALERT button located at the bottom right hand side of the post you think is not acceptable decorum.

Thanks,
ET



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 01:02 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

the claim was made that no photographs of ufos are to be trusted (op).


The Op is correct. They should be investigated thoroughly first. If said photos stand up to the rigors of scientific enquiry/scrutiny, if all prosaic causes have been thoroughly elliminated, then, and only then can we entertain other-worldly possibilities.

In essence the Op is saying is that no photo should be accepted at face value.


most ufo photographs have been taken by people who are no longer alive.


Source please? Can you give me a link to some trustworthy stats to back-up your statement?


so the "fabricating non existent scenarios" bit just got scrapped


Actually no! You just created another one!



because your interpretation of reality is not consistant with the facts that most ufo pictures where taken by those who are no longer alive.


Show me the facts then! Sources please. Surely if it's fact your talking about, there should be a readily available reliable source for your 'facts'.... no?


i'd bother to read the rest of your post, but i prefer discussions based on facts, not the opposite of the facts.


Not reading full posts again?



IRM


[edit on 8/7/10 by InfaRedMan]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


ya, while you are disputing all variables concerning the proof necessary to ensure all photos are mostly untrustworthy i will start working on the obituaries lists for the photographers of all the allegedly fake ufo pics.

do you know when and where the first ufo photo was reportedly taken?

or do you want me to do that research for you, too?



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 01:46 AM
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this photograph was allegedly taken 122 years ago, in July of 1888. It is reported as being taken in Illinois.

i can not find the photographer's name however, so i can not prove he or she is dead. Gee, i wonder how many other photographs of ufos don't have information concerning who took them? probably no relation to the criticism they would recieve, and or the criticism they did recieve.

at any rate, one photograph down that i can not prove the photographer is dead, but if we assume he or she had to be at least 5 years old to take the picture, then that would make the photographer 127 years old.



link/source: www.ufodigest.com...

however, before the camera was in existance...
we do have written records that our family, kin, and ancestors have carried through thousands of years of history for a reason....


329 BC: Alexander the Great records two great 'flying shields'
Date
329 BC Location
Central Asia,


Summary: Alexander the Great records two great silver shields, spitting fire around the rims in the sky that dived repeatedly at his army as they were attempting a river crossing. The action so panicked his elephants, horses, and men they had to abandon the river crossing until the following day



and i'm pretty sure Alexander is dead, and also thousands if not millions of our related ancestors who bothered to preserve this story for so long and call it recorded history.



[edit on 8-7-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


ya, while you are disputing all variables concerning the proof necessary to ensure all photos are mostly untrustworthy i will start working on the obituaries lists for the photographers of all the allegedly fake ufo pics.


No.. just give me the readily available stats from which you claim. Also, show me the quote where I said all UFO photos are untrustworthy. Can you paste in that quote, or are you fabricating again?



do you know when and where the first ufo photo was reportedly taken?
or do you want me to do that research for you, too?


No.. your research skills are questionable. In any case, you are obfuscating. You claimed to be representing a 'fact'; therefore you should have access to said facts and be able to readily supply them to us. The truth of the matter is that you don't! If you have to go and 'research', then you were just blowing hot air and baseless assertions. How novel! One of the very things destroying UFology!

Some people just don't know when to stop digging that hole. Say hello to China for me Esoteric Teacher!

IRM



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
one photograph down that i can not prove the photographer is dead, but if we assume he or she had to be at least 5 years old to take the picture, then that would make the photographer 127 years old.





Where's the proof it's a UFO and not just crap on the lense? Or how about a bird? Sorry... no proof of a UFO... just a blury blob.


however, before the camera was in existance...


No... This is about photographs! Stick to the criteria! Running out of material after just one photo? Where's the stats I asked for to back up your statement?

IRM


[edit on 8/7/10 by InfaRedMan]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by adigregorio
Alright, we are accusing others of not reading the OP.


Really? Who is doing that? I see people blatantly demonstrating they are not reading the OP and it is pointed out. Where are these "accusations?"


I accuse you of not reading the THREAD.


OK. I am more than willing to admit I may have missed a post or two. Dazzle me.


Please, read my last few posts, as well as the long one by ET. They point out the exact quotes the OP has used to relay that they enjoy picking on the gullible.

Oh, and deny ignorance...


Mmmmmmm...no. How about you show me because what I really think is happening is angry people are taking words and twisting them to mean different things in order to justify being angry which is just a coverup for the embarrassment of failing to do the due diligence and at least scrutinize the evidence even a little.

So, it is clear you are unclear on "accusations" so I am not sure what you consider mockery. Please demonstrate for me where the OP has done as you say.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by InfaRedMan
... therefore you should have access to said facts and be able to readily supply them to us. The truth of the matter is that you don't! If you have to go and 'research', then you were just blowing hot air and baseless assertions. How novel! One of the very things destroying UFology!


are you making the claim i do not have access to the facts for supplying you a link to a source that you requested that i do?

how is it you expect it both ways?
supply you a link, and do with proof i did not have to find you a link you asked for?

as for access to said facts, my professional background does offer me insights into the ufo phenomenon. one does not spend more than a decade in the usaf in the deserts without learning some insights.

i'd love to share what i know, but you guys have a few ten thousand photographs to prove are untrustworthy and not to be trusted.

have fun with that.



Some people just don't know when to stop digging that hole. Say hello to China for me Esoteric Teacher!
IRM


hello china



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
getting one's kicks on ATS for the self indulgent amusement of other peoples' allegedly gulliibility is demonstrating actions and behaviors consistant with someone who is feeding off of other peoples gullibility.


Or it is just hard to not get a kick out of people going so far out of their way to accept evidence that they refuse to even begin to question it. Just because responses are entertaining does not mean it was the OPs intent to mock.


it is not the op's intent to make ATSers less gullible, it is the op's intent to re-enforce the belief that not only are ATSers gullible, but so are people in general who believe in such photographs, of which the op has stated should not be believed at all.


If no one had failed to read the entire OP, there would be no gullibility to display, right? So......if there were no gullible people here, what you claim the intent was would have been a miserable failure. Obviously not the case, no?

You really seem to be missing the fact that the only way this is a trap or some nefarious attempt to make people look a certain way is if people were purposely tricked somehow.

You were all as free as myself to look at the pictures and thing "I want to know more about these." Funny thing is, when I thought that I immediately decided that the accompanying text might be a good place to start.

Either I am a super genius that managed to escape this twisted trap...

...or it really just allowed people to admit they do not really care enough to scrutinize.

You tell me.


the op is not exposing gullibility, he is feeding the ideologies that promote that other people are gullible in his opinion, while only relying on his opinion to make such claims.


I completely fail to see any evidence of that. You really seem to be basing your entire opinion of this on conversations you imagined because they are not posted here anywhere.

Let me say YET AGAIN, that the only people feeding that ideology are the people that actually FIT! If you cannot be bothered to read before you believe, you belong on another site.

I would really appreciate anyone who sees pictures and just decides they are real evidence of alien space craft found a forum more along the lines of "Embrace Ignorance and Eagerly!"

Maybe I can go back to actually enjoying the UFO forum here.


and as for me calming down ... i didn't realize i was anywhere near upset or frustrated or anything resembling upset.


I guess colloquialisms are a bit of a mystery as well?


if the op wants to keep calling ATSers fools, time permitting, i will tender some measure of magneloquence to participate and promote in fashion a fruitful dialogue. Dialogue that projects some level of civil decorum.


Show me where the OP called ATSers fools or admit that is a blatant lie.

Then tell me how you will use a made up word to fashion anything fruitful? magniloquence is the kind of word you only whip out when your spelling reflects the kind of intellect that would common such a word. Nice try though.


i take my postings very very seriously, and do the utmost to collaborate with rational thinking rather than belittling remarks. Do not attack a person's character without pointing to the action and behaviors that legitimize the intentions of why someone deserves to be reffered to numerous times as "FOOL". This is not ATS.


Yeah, you do not seem angry at all.


again, post are to be taken very very seriously when making the claim that no photograph anywhere is to be trusted as material evidence when attempting to determine anything about the ufo phenomenon.


No photograph should ever be trusted. Is that really how seriously you take the subject of UFOs? You just trust photographs as evidence of what exactly? Can I see an example of such?

I have never "trusted" a photograph of anything. When I was a kid my grandfather had all kinds of cool old photos of crazy stuff like man-sized grasshoppers. These go loooooong before monochrome monitors so photoshop was not in use. They were really really good though, I wish I held onto them when he passed because they would be great here. Unfortunately, it taught me at a young age to NEVER "trust" a photograph.

I guess that is the difference between genuine interest and blind hope.

I cannot wait to see a picture you trust.


i doubt the op has seen all ufo related pictures. yet The Zomar has seen enough to discredit all ufo related pictures. logically, how much sense does that make?


Now he has discredited all UFO pictures? When did that happen? Is there an entire section of this thread I keep missing or do you just keep making things up?


yaba daba doo,
gazoo


That would be The Great Gazoo, thank you.


if one is going to make the claim that no ufo photo is to be believed, then respond to posters by calling them the fools, well then...


Show me the photos you believe then and I am sure I will be all turned around on this.



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