Have all Christians been duped? Evidence here.

Originally posted by silo13
In my opinion, Christ was crucified because the Jews wanted him killed.
Even at his birth, Herod, though not a Jew himself, tried at killing the 'child king' by systematically slaughtering all the first born at the time.

Ummm....Herod was a Jew.





[edit on 7-7-2010 by Romans 10:9]

What a clergy will usually do is to try and find a "Gap of understanding" and make it look, as if that is enough reason to accept the existence of a god.

For example: they say because there is no clear explanation why humans exist, a god must have made us, and have something special planned.
Or if u look at the beauty and greatness of nature or the complexity of the human body, god must have made it.

This is of course not a reasonable way of thinking.

People used to believe in Thor the God of Sky & thunder until they discovered how lightning came to be, and he was forgotten.
People used to believe in Ceres the Goddess of Agriculture and Good Harvest.
When people found out agriculture is all about timing, weather and nutrition for the crops, they forgot all about Ceres.

Today science can answer just about anything.

But usually religious people lack the understanding of the science behind particular things, and therefore mark it as: not understandable, or to complex for a human being to understand.

In other words, another bad excuse to say, god must have made us all.

Basic education in evolution and natural selection should answer most of these questions for u.
And don’t believe the religious bias people, saying evolution is not true, without even knowing the substance they are talking about.

reply to post by Schmidt1989


I would love to see some examples of what your talking about : )

reply to post by SilveradoNL


On the contrary the complexity of those things you have mentioned are indeed evidence of some type of intelligent design.

If I were to ask you to make something out of a pile of blocks... and then simply put a pile of unassembled blocks next to your pile that no one could touch...which pile would probably end up assembled into something?

Yours would of course because you would ... design them ... into something.

How much more complex is the human cell in comparison?
A humanbeing?

See my point?

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


The prophet Mohammad died in the year 632. It wasn't until 34 years later that Islam was finally starting to be established.

That year was 666.........Coincidence?...You tell me. Your'e the expert.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


Amazing what numbers can one produce by arbitrarily adding them up. So, islam was established 34 years after Muhammad you say?

Haha. Sometimes I am really worried about the fate of human civilization ...

reply to post by skajkingdom

Originally posted by skajkingdom
reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

 

Amazing what numbers can one produce by arbitrarily adding them up. So, islam was established 34 years after Muhammad you say?

Haha. Sometimes I am really worried about the fate of human civilization ...

Yes it is amazing. The OP claims to be a Christian, yet he arbitrarily adds numbers to claim that Jesus is the Devil.

The OP continues to bash Christians and Jews in his threads, but he will not speak a word against Islam, The Koran, or Mohammad.

Yet the OP will not respond to my allegations. He has used the ignore button.......that's special.....

Perhaps he can refute my factual findings by posting another thread full of lies, trickery, and deceit.

MOHAMMAD = 666 = SATAN = FALSE PROPHET = THE BEAST

And talk about adding numbers arbitrarily.......check out this link.

www.freerepublic.com...


[edit on 10-7-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

reply to post by Schmidt1989


I tried to star you, though when I did it took me instantly to a post by a user who UPHELD being a Christian.
The Nazi's of ATS # me again.

reply to post by MikeboydUS

You know we could make a ship today with almost every plant and animal on it, in the form of seeds, frozen embryos and a library of genetic material.

Hey ya! That way if all the oil in the gulf, that just happens to look exactly like the blood of a dead man. Turns out to be another ELE (like Noah's flood) then at least there would be the possibility of life returning to the planet someday.
WoW. That's a really good idea.
Did you come up with that all by yourslf?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Of course christians are being duped.

If you're running around taking seriously a religion of a bronze-age genital mutilation tribe, you have problems. You have to believe impossibilities such as people rising from the dead, demons causing disease, bushes that speak, etc. etc.

While I would agree that Christians have no real Knowledge of what the Teaching of Jesus was--thanks to the Pharisee, Paul, who turned upside down the Teaching of Jesus on the Doctrine of "resurrection"--one point I have to disagree with you about is the 'impossibility of people raising from the dead'.

This is also what the Sadducees believed: that there would be no physical raising of any dead bodies from the grave; something which the Pharisees believed in.

The problem?

Both the Sadducees and the Pharisees turned against Jesus.

Now, why would the Pharisees have turned against Jesus if he taught the same doctrine of "resurrection" that they taught?

And the answer to that question is quite simple:

He didn't.

Jesus taught the Doctrine of "resurrection" as, instead, a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'--not an impossibility at all; and something that is believed by millions of Buddhists and Hindus; and as was later taught by the Gnostics and the Albigensians in southern France more than a thousand years later (for which tens of thousands of them were exterminated by the Roman church for teaching what Jesus taught about the "resurrection".)

I have started a thread entitled "Resurrection" & 'Rebirth' to discuss the censorship of the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection".

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth

Yes it is amazing. The OP claims to be a Christian, yet he arbitrarily adds numbers to claim that Jesus is the Devil.

Well I don't know about him, but I am muslim, and the difference between the christians and muslims is that we believe in both Jesus AND Muhammad, but they don't believe in Muhammad.
We are in a disadvantage here because often the christians will insult us and Muhammad, like you, claiming he is "the beast", but we cant do that to you, because we are not allowed to insult Jesus.
It is a tenet of faith in Islam to believe in Jesus.

Thus, in this case, it is WE who are upholding the words of Jesus - you throw rocks at us, we throw bread at you ...



And on the beast thingy. The number was actually 616, later it got changed to 666.

Apart from that any biblical scholar will tell you that the writer of the revelation more or less used writing of Daniel, Ezechiel, even Enoch, and recreated a special form of his, while actually writing against the roman empire of that time.

The writer of the revelation firmly believed that the events he was describing were going to be fulfilled in HIS GENERATION.
Never was the intention of the revelation to write about a distant future, or the year 2010, or 2012 or whatever.

It is merely an apocalyptic feature symbolising the wish of the author for God to intervene and save the jewish community who was being oppressed by romans.

reply to post by skajkingdom

Originally posted by skajkingdom

Well I don't know about him, but I am muslim, and the difference between the christians and muslims is that we believe in both Jesus AND Muhammad, but they don't believe in Muhammad.

Well I know about him, I have read his threads and posts. He bashes Christians and Jews but stops short of criticizing Muslims.........I wonder why.......He says he is a Christian but says that Jesus is the Devil..........strange.................isn't it?......

Should you not throw some bread at him for defiling the name of Jesus, who he claims is the Beast?........Or is it a tenet of your religion not to challenge fellow Muslims for their defamation of Jesus?

Originally posted by Kapyong
Gday,

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Unless you have noticed the writer/source of the stories published in this Gospel is supposed to be the Beloved Disciple (Mary Magdalene, Lazarus or John? Anyway, one of his students),

That's what Christians BELIEVE, yes.
But no evidence for it.
It's clear to modern NT scholars that the Gospels were NOT written by anyone who met Jesus.

G.John talks about the expulsion from the synagogues - a ridiculous and obvious anachronims.

The Golden Gospel may have been written down by the students of John or other scribes, I never claimed any of the apostles wrote any of the books other than some of the epistles in the secondary NT.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
and throughout the book he relates to himself in the third person.

Rubbish.

Then give me one single example where the writer(s) of the Gospel of John relates to himself in the book. One place. Name one place where he/them use the words I or We.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
And this was a common way to comment history back then.

Bollocks.

OK So the early Christians didn't do this? What about the Romans? There aren't many Herodots and Josephuses in history. Most of what we have to rely on is third person narratives made like fables and stories.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Apparently he never seems to mention himself by name, unless a curious passage about Lazarus is the key to the mystery, but the other Gospels names all the Apostles, and the only Apostle not mentioned by name is in the Golden Gospel is John, so most biblical scholars believe it is him.

No they don't.

Proofs please, since you seem to know the biblical schools better than me and most people I have met. And that's quite a few mind you.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
But Jesjuah had many more disciples beyond the twelve apostles. One of them being Mary Magdalene and another and also the only disciple "Jesjuah loves" in the written text in the Book of "John"

More BELIEFS.
No evidence.

Kap

Enogh said, man, go gnaw your tongue or something

Originally posted by skajkingdom

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
In the Koran Arab. "Issa" or Lat. "Jesus" and Heb. Jesjuah was not crucified, but [fell] the person we know as Simon of Kyrene was killed in his place. According to the Koran, "Issa" lived to be a 120 years old.

Where exactly in the Qur'an did you read this?
Apparently you have another Qur'an, different from all of us...

I don't read Arabic so all I have to rely on is work made by westerners on the Koranic texts, and of course discourses with friends who have read and studied the Koran. The way I have understood it thusfar is that Jesjuah wasn't the person on the cross, but one of his servants, identified in the Christian Gospel as this Simon of Kyrene.

I may have opened my mouth too wide or too narrowly, for I should perhaps rather have said Islamic tradition. Below is one quote about Jesjuah becoming 120 years old:

“During his last illness, the Holy Prophet (saw) said to his daughter Hazrat Fatima (ra), “Once in every year, Gabriel recited the Quran to me. This year he recited twice. He also told me that every succeeding prophet has lived to half the age of his predecessor. He told me that Jesus, son of Mary, lived to 120 years. Therefore, I think, I may live to about 60 years.” (Mawahib-ud-Duniya by Qastalani, Vol. I, p. 42); (Kanzul Ummal, Vol. VI, p. 120, 160 from Hazrat Fatima (ra)); (Hujjaj al-Kiramah, p. 428); (Hakam)

Source: www.tombofjesus.com...

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
Should you not throw some bread at him for defiling the name of Jesus, who he claims is the Beast?........Or is it a tenet of your religion not to challenge fellow Muslims for their defamation of Jesus?

Any muslim who insults Jesus, e.g. calls him Devil automatically STOPS BEING MUSLIM.

Since to really be muslim, meaning to SUBMIT TO GOD FULLY, you have to:

- Believe there is only ONE God.
- Believe in His Angels.
- Believe in His Books.
- Believe in His Messengers (ALL OF THEM!)
- Believe in the day of Judgement, and
- Believe in God's decree in the universe.

I hope I answered your question.

Peace be with you.

Originally posted by SilveradoNL
Any person that actually did read the bible should know most things are scientifically impossible.

Noach Ark is impossible to build, with only the tools of that time.
A wooden ship that size would never reach structural integrity to actually "float", let alone go anywhere with a huge load onboard, and endure big waves.

OK, the Great Pyramid was also made around the time of Noah with the tools of that time. It would be "impossible" for us today to make such a building with the given precission and tools avalable for us today. Eat rocks dude.

reply to post by skajkingdom

Originally posted by skajkingdom

Thus, in this case, it is WE who are upholding the words of Jesus - you throw rocks at us, we throw bread at you ...

Excuse me, but I find this observation to be excessively lame on your part.
Let me ask you this: Do you stone women to death in Islam because they commit adultery, or do Muslims kill women because of the fact that you are all emotionally immature men?

Please address this question for me as I am having a hard time trying to understand the murderous nature of your religion.

Why do you consider all non-Muslims as.......The Infidel ?

Why must you MURDER people who do not share your twisted views on the degradation of women?

Why do Muslims act like sick teenagers and treat women like animals, or like chattel?

Why does Sharia Law condemn women to be stoned to death if they were unfortunate enough to have been raped?

Perhaps you should throw the bread at your women, the way that you do at the dinner table when it doesn't quite meet your specific nutritional requirements.....when it tastes like ...t.

Or perhaps you should go down to one of your various public squares and see a woman get 99 lashes......that must really add inches to your dick......

It is obvious that your religion is a gutter religion, and your devotion to the enslavement of women is tantamount to Satanic Ritual.

In my view, your religious organization must be put down with no less vigor than one would use in putting down a rabid dog.

Originally posted by skajkingdom

Peace be with you.

Perhaps you should direct this cliche toward the women of Islam who are being raped, beaten, tortured, and beheaded in Islamic Theocracies around the world, even now, even as we speak........But don't insult me with your overtures of peace.....there is no peace!...and I am not your bitch.


[edit on 13-7-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


None of what you said is so.
Stoning is in THE BIBLE not in the Qur'an.

ANY other punishment you find in the quran is for BOTH women AND men.

I extend you the greetings of piece yet you insult me with the most vile of words.

You sir are a disgrace to be called a disciple of Jesus and a disgrace to humanity.
Dont bother to write back

/ignore

[edit on 7/14/2010 by skajkingdom]

reply to post by skajkingdom

Originally posted by skajkingdom
reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

 

None of what you said is so.
Stoning is in THE BIBLE not in the Qur'an.

ANY other punishment you find in the quran is for BOTH women AND men.

I extend you the greetings of piece yet you insult me with the most vile of words.

You sir are a disgrace to be called a disciple of Jesus and a disgrace to humanity.
Dont bother to write back

/ignore

Why Islam can enjoin stoning

By Christopher Howse
Published: 12:01AM GMT 01 Mar 2008

Comment

Sacred mysteries
The stoning of adulterers in Islamic law is not commanded by the Koran. It is found in the collections of the sayings and practice of Mohammad known as the hadith. In Turkey, we learn this week, an attempt is under way to construct a new compilation of hadith, and the question of stoning shows that this may be a life-and-death undertaking.

As for stoning, there was an attempt by the caliph Omar, a companion of Mohammad who ruled only two years after the Prophet's death, to assert that a verse commanding the punishment really belonged in the true version of the Koran. He failed to insert it in the Koran, but there is no doubt about the immovable status of the hadith that hands down stoning from his time.

www.telegraph.co.uk...


Nice try. You respond in typical Muslim fashion.

You dance around the questions......in this case you completely ignore them......and give a half truth as a response while trying to deflect blame away from your brutal treatment of women.

It is obvious that the Caliph Omar wanted young girls, who had rejected the Pedophile Mohammad's affections, and those who would rebuff his own, to be stoned to death.

Shame on you and your religion, and your brutal treatment of the Innocents, and your barbaric murderous rituals.

Don't bother to write back.

It is funny how you Cowards will hit the ignore button when pressed about the deceit that you perpetuate in the name of your religion or your Pedophile Prophet.

So it is the Hadith that hands down stoning till this day.

It is not the Bible that perpetuates stoning. That law was challenged and condemned by Christ....when he said,.....Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.......He changes the laws that are barbaric and even those that are redundant.

You should follow the example of Christ and challenge what you see as unjust. If you can not challenge it in a meaningful manner because you fail to open your eyes to the truth, perhaps you should not respond to this post.

But if you care to repudiate the facts, give a truthful account, and back up your dialog with facts and sources, I'd like to hear it.

Peace be with you.


[edit on 14-7-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

Gday,

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by Kapyong
G.John talks about the expulsion from the synagogues - a ridiculous and obvious anachronims.

The Golden Gospel may have been written down by the students of John or other scribes, I never claimed any of the apostles wrote any of the books other than some of the epistles in the secondary NT.

Or it may have been written long afterwards by someone else who never met Jesus or his followers.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Then give me one single example where the writer(s) of the Gospel of John relates to himself in the book. One place. Name one place where he/them use the words I or We.

You don't seem to get the POINT:
YOU claimed John relates to HIMSELF in the 3rd person.
That's YOUR claim.

I'm not saying he used 1st person.
I am saying he is NOT referring to himself at all.
I am saying it's NOTHING to do with John.

G.John refers to Peter in the 3rd person - do you say Peter wrote it and referred to himself in the 3rd person? Of course not.

G.John refers to Martha in the 3rd person - do you say Martha wrote it and referred to herself in the 3rd person? Of course not.

G.John refers to Lazarus in the 3rd person - do you say Lazarus wrote it and referred to herself in the 3rd person? Of course not.

Get it?

G.John was NOT written by John. He does NOT refer to himself in the 3rd person, or 1st person. G.John was written by some unknown person long long after the alleged events had not actually happened.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
OK So the early Christians didn't do this? What about the Romans? There aren't many Herodots and Josephuses in history. Most of what we have to rely on is third person narratives made like fables and stories.

Wrong.
It is simply incorrect to say most of our ancient sources refer to themselves in the 3rd person.

That is NOT the same as having "third person narratives". Did you think no-one would notice your attempt to switch the subject?

YOU claimed John referred to himself in the 3rd person.
That is NOT correct.

It's just a bizarre Christian claim that allows them to pretend it was written by an eye-witness. Christians are DESPERATE to believe in eye-witnesses to Jesus, even though there are none.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Apparently he never seems to mention himself by name, unless a curious passage about Lazarus is the key to the mystery, but the other Gospels names all the Apostles, and the only Apostle not mentioned by name is in the Golden Gospel is John, so most biblical scholars believe it is him.
...
Proofs please, since you seem to know the biblical schools better than me and most people I have met. And that's quite a few mind you.

It's YOUR claim.
YOU failed to provide proofs.
YOUR claim failed.
Sure you can find "biblical scholars" who agree with you - FAITHFUL BELIEVERS who faithfully believe the same faithful beliefs as you.

But REAL actual modern NT scholars agree otherwise - G.John was NOT written by ANYONE who ever met Jesus.

The idea that you can identify a books author by the fact the author is NOT name is pure fantasy. This bizarre argument is NEVER made by real historians - the ONLY time it EVER comes up is Christian apologetics.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Enogh said, man, go gnaw your tongue or something

You can't actually support your claims with evidence?
So you resort to bizarro-insults.
Typical apologist.


Kap