Is Hell really a place of torture?, page 3

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reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 01:47 AM by CSquared288

reply to post by navione

sorry first, onemind i really like your post

uhh where to start. so have you ever been watching a movie or tv show that you really liked, and you came across a ridiculously haranguing (touching?) or emotional scene? and as you watch it you say to yourself I WANT THAT

...but there's no way it could happen for me."

it doesnt matter what it is really, maybe an intense scene with a girl, maybe a bisexual threesome (sorry im drunk again (and by bisexual i DO mean two girls)), maybe some badass superhero entrance, whatever. you look at it and you say I can't.

you have literally been trained to do this. and while im not really gonna waste time on how or why this has been done to us, i will say that our collective brainwashing has been for a greater purpose than to simply get us to buy buy buy.

im gonna tell you as best I can how to get past this and literally obtain anything and everything you want in this life.

To get what you want, you must first have the capacity to believe that you can. The universe contains two opposing energies, positive and negative. referring to my other post, positive thoughts feelings, emotions, intentions bring about positive things; a rasie at work, a new girlfriend, or even a traffic light that turns green as your driving up to it. conversely, negative energy will bring you a divorce, an unecessary fistfight, or a fender bender.

so when your watching this particularly resonating scene, center yourself. make yourself happy and stay that way.

it is a choice. your emotion registers as a frequency which calls to you whatever version of this infinte multiverse you choose.

SO
if you believe you are fully capable and willing to do something, your positive freqency will bring that thing to you. the only thing you need to do is recognize the opportunity presented and seize it. Thst is literally how the universe works.

man, that would be a pretty awesome and apt illustration of god, wouldn't it?

this applies to anything

reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 09:20 AM by sojikai

I have read Aleister Crowley's "Book of The Law". For those of you who don't know, it is generally regarded as the text that gave birth to modern-day satanism. Basically, one of the key points of the writing is this: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". Satanism teaches to worship oneself; that you are your own god. Us humans being generally selfish beings, we are easily persuaded and corrupted by power and/or promises of power. It's the whole "Adam and Eve" thing.
Actual worship of the Devil himself is called Luciferianism. This is what most people mistake as what Satanism really is. Luciferians/Luciderianists(?) worship the Devil. Satanists are taught by the Devil to worship themselves.
Now, my point: Satanists are still technically followers of Satan, though they believe that they themselves are the ones who hold true power. If Satan is amassing an army to oppose Heaven and the angels, would it not be necessary to show the inhabitants of Hell that he was the one in control?

reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 11:03 AM by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Nosred
I was thinking one day about Hell and I came to a conclusion that got me thinking. If Satan's ultimate goal is to tempt people into sin so they will go to Hell why does he punish the sinners? Wouldn't it be more intelligent to reward the sinners? He should know that the knowledge of Hell being a bad place might deter some would-be sinners. Why doesn't Lucifer make Hell a paradise?

Satan has no control over Hell, God is in control of all things. Hell was created explicitly to punish Lucifer and the 1/3 of the angels that fell. Lucifer doesn't want to be sent there anymore than you or I do. That is why when he is thrown out of heaven mid-way through the Tribulation it says he has great wrath "for he knows but his time is very short.."

Many people falsely assume that Satan is in Hell right now, in fact the Bible says he is still in heaven, in fact in the throne room of God where he condemns and accuses the saints without ceasing. Why he is called by the Word "the accuser".

reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 11:08 AM by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Goddy
I often times also think like that, OP. If we are sent to this "hell" to be punished for not worshiping/following/believing in/etc. (an apparently, "all forgiving" being) God, wouldn't that mean that the devil and God are on the same team? As if God's the "good" one and the devil's the rowdier relative or something?

People are sent to Hell for sin. Nothing more, nothing less. Being sinners. We all deserve to go there. Now, on the other hand, God has given a free pass out to anyone who humbles themselves before Him and asks, but sadly many will reject that free gift.

reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 12:56 PM by CSquared288

reply to post by NOTurTypical

define sin.

line 2

do it without using a book that has been rewritten an ungodly amount of times by a ridiculous number of different people with different mindsets and different agendas.

nevermind im gonna finish. there is no seperate overlording judgemental god that looks at everything you do an decides whether he thinks you should be punished or not.

YOU ARE NOT seperate from god. rewards in life come from you and punishment in life comes from you. refer to my previous post

what you are purporting to 'know' and 'believe', and are disseminating to other minds looking for direction, is misguided conjecture that really only breeds doubt, confusion, and just a seeping depression in terms of life.

i mean think about it: i cant say for sure simply because i dont know you, but i can say with confidence that deep down you probably dislike the idea of someone else looking at you and telling you "this is what I judge you to be so deal."

how could he possibly understand me? He's not me.
that's the wrong way to look at it.

In fact, he is you, he does understand you

and he DOES NOT judge you because that would be masochistic.

[edit on 7/5/10 by CSquared288]

[edit on 7/5/10 by CSquared288]

reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 02:12 PM by onemind

Our belief in sin is what sends us to hell. We need to see badness or evil as outside of ourselves so as to preserve our sense of innocence while secretly believing in our own complete unworthiness. In truth each of us is exactly as God created us and as He eternally sees us. We are the perfect creations of a perfect Creator.

A belief is sinlessness is blasphemous to us. If you get real honest about it and REALLY think about it some...that's what got Jesus crucified. Love holds NO grievances. Modern Christianity has the whole thing ass-backwards. I am sure I have made a few people really mad by the my last couple of statements. However, just bare with me a moment...

We are so racked with guilt over our perceived unworthiness that we try to externalize it and see it all as outside of ourselves. Hence we create an evil world full of evil people doing nasty things to us and we can then fully embrace our sense of victimization. Our unworthiness and incompletion leads us to continually try to complete ourselves through external means...."that perfect person will complete me, that new, fancy car will complete me, that cheeseburger will complete me, being 'right" will complete me and so on and so on. We just keep chasing the carrot of completion on the stick.

We are the author of our collective and individual hells.

reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 11:10 PM by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by CSquared288
reply to post by NOTurTypical

define sin.

line 2

do it without using a book that has been rewritten an ungodly amount of times by a ridiculous number of different people with different mindsets and different agendas.

nevermind im gonna finish. there is no seperate overlording judgemental god that looks at everything you do an decides whether he thinks you should be punished or not.

YOU ARE NOT seperate from god. rewards in life come from you and punishment in life comes from you. refer to my previous post

what you are purporting to 'know' and 'believe', and are disseminating to other minds looking for direction, is misguided conjecture that really only breeds doubt, confusion, and just a seeping depression in terms of life.

i mean think about it: i cant say for sure simply because i dont know you, but i can say with confidence that deep down you probably dislike the idea of someone else looking at you and telling you "this is what I judge you to be so deal."

how could he possibly understand me? He's not me.
that's the wrong way to look at it.

In fact, he is you, he does understand you

and he DOES NOT judge you because that would be masochistic.

Nice idol God you've got there, but that is not the Lord as revealed in the Bible. "Sin" is breaking a commandment of God.

reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 11:21 PM by bekod

here is a thought what if at this moment we are in hell. Think about this war is hell life is hell work is hell on and on , this food...hell my pants ...hell i look....hell were is god? would god come to hell? would death live in hell? life on earth is hell, not heaven no matter how hard you try! Death pain destruction and yes taxes are all part of well hell so i ask is this heaven or is it a living hell? just a thought.

reply posted on 5-7-2010 @ 11:35 PM by John_Q_Llama

My wife has been spending quite a bit of time looking into this topic lately. Her research is the result of my own departure from the Christian belief system. That being said, we have discussed it occasionally, but I am not privy to much of what she has learned so far.

What I have gotten from her is not all that surprising to me. In fact it goes along with something that never sat right with me when I was a practicing Christian. I was never able to accept the idea that God, who is supposed to be all-loving, would create a place of eternal torment. My wife had the same thought, and that is what spurned her to dig a little deeper.

Others have responded with information that goes along with what she has learned. The word and concept of hell, as we know it today, is actually the product of mistranslation and the inheritance of belief. What I mean by inheritance of belief is that people learn what hell is from their parents or guardians, and then carry on with that belief without questioning it and seeking out further information about it. As others have mentioned, it is more of a state of being, and it does not include eternal suffering. I think she described it as a resting place. So when we die, we go to rest, until Jesus returns. At least that's how I think she put it. I apologize if I am not entirely accurate. But I know that she told me that hell is not some horrible place where evil souls are sent to suffer because they sinned and did awful things in life.

I highly suggest setting aside what you've believed since childhood and do some digging. The Bible is full of mistranslations and manipulations which men have used to their advantage, and the concept of a fiery hell is among them. What you learn may be upsetting, but at least in the end you can tell yourself that you did your research and came to a point where you felt you'd discovered the truth.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 02:36 AM by taccj9903

reply to post by John_Q_Llama

I believe we have something in common, I also used to be Christian and my wife still is. We will sometimes discuss the bible and on one occasion we have talked about hell, she actually believes in it. I like to point out verses like

Romans 6:23 (King James Version)

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

No mention of hell there.

Or maybe, Ecclesiastes 9:5

5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Nope no mention of hell.

Hell is nothing more than a scare tactic used by the religious heads to keep the sheeple coming back, so the money will flow.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 02:49 AM by Erad3

Are you going to tell the rest of the posters that the books were wrote by one person?

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 02:53 AM by MikeboydUS

reply to post by taccj9903

You can't just pick verses out of context and be objective.

The verses in Ecclesiastes are talking about Sheol. There isn't any awareness in Sheol. No perception, no thought.

After the Day of the Lord, there is the Last Judgement. At this time all of the dead who have ever lived will be resurrected and judged. Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will have a place in the world to come. Those whose names are not found go to Gehenna.

Daniel 12:2

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt

John 5;29

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:11 AM by taccj9903

reply to post by MikeboydUS

So what about Romans 6:23?

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:16 AM by corruptedtesssa

good thread topic, OP

Yes, it would make a great deal of sense that Hell for people who arent saints nor wish to be is probably a reallllly good time! But i do believe its the seperation from 'god' that causes one to be in hell..
Still, i would much rather be with man made Satan than with man made god

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:27 AM by taccj9903

Check out this site, this guy makes a lot of great points.

what-the-hell-is-hell.com...

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:52 AM by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by taccj9903
reply to post by MikeboydUS

So what about Romans 6:23?

The wages of sin are death.

Its speaking of the death of the soul.

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

This isn't a literal lake of burning sulphur, but a metaphor for annihilation. Sulphur at that time was used to burn away impurities, as a divine incense.

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Matthew 10:28

They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power

2 Thessalonians 1:9

Note Gehenna and the Lake of Fire are the same thing, they annihilate or erase things from existence.

[edit on 6/7/10 by MikeboydUS]

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:58 AM by taccj9903

reply to post by MikeboydUS

You should take the hell test.

www.tentmaker.org...

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 04:34 AM by MikeboydUS

reply to post by taccj9903

Just some commentary on the site.

I agree with the bit about the word Hell. While we are at it we should stop using the word Soul as well. I don't mean that in sarcasm.

The German word soule has a completely different meaning than Nephesh in the Bible. Soul means an immortal and independent essence. Nephesh is the union of the Neshama, the breath from G-d and the Aphar, the dust of the earth. The Bible says only G-d is immortal: 1 Timothy 6:15-16
All human existence depends on the Nishmat Hayyim, the Breath of Life. Without it our bodies return to dust and we enter the state of non-being, Sheol. We stay in this state till Judgement. When the Nephesh is resurrected and judged. Those in the Book of Life have a place in the world to come. Those who don't are deleted from reality.

Apparently the site creator missed Gehenna in Judaism.

The torturous aspect of "hell" originates among Roman mythology, from its Infernus. Infernus is almost exactly what most people think of when they think of hell, but Infernus isn't in the Bible. Gehenna isn't Infernus.

Sheol is not Gehenna and should never be misunderstood as such.

The "Old Testament" was not canonized until around 100 CE. Before that only the books of the Prophets and the Torah itself were considered canon. There were plenty of other writings out there though. The Talmud talks about Gehenna. Jesus uses the word 11 times in the Greek. It should not be confused with Hades, an analog to Sheol. It should not be confused with Tartarus or the Abyss either, which are something completely different.

The site ignores the works of other early church fathers: Ignatius, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Arnobius, who all spoke of the death of the self.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 05:31 AM by Saul of Tarsus

Heaven and hell are metaphors for inner peace and inner turmoil. Love is to inner peace what fear is to inner turmoil. The law (The 10 Commandments) was given to humanity in order that it may know fear and inner turmoil. The option of enlightenment (heaven) was given to humanity in various forms in order that it may transcend fear and inner turmoil and know love and inner peace. Why? Because it is not possible to know love without knowing fear, the same can be said for all other polarities that exist in our awareness. Enlightenment facilitates unity with the source which transcends inner peace by moving from local to non-local awareness. Some souls who have walked the earth in human form have chosen this option, the rest have stuck with the law (or hell), some of us through a number of incarnations. This is understandable in the context of local awareness which relies on the mind (brain) to interpret the meaning of experience which is referenced to actual past or expected future events in the physical universe. As we near "The Shift Of The Ages" a window of opportunity exists for a large number of souls to choose enlightenment, facilitated by the decline in the earth’s electromagnetic field which can be likened to the glue that holds all belief systems on the planet in place. Enlightenment is facilitated by heart-intelligence as opposed to brain intelligence. The heart is the most underrated organ in the body, although its electromagnetic field is 5000 times stronger than that of the brain. Ongoing scientific research into the intelligent role that the heart plays in our interaction with all there is and the manifestation of our dearly held beliefs into physical reality is yielding some astounding results. Worth investigating. Many blessings

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 07:07 AM by skajkingdom

Originally posted by snowspirit
I've wondered that myself. I don't believe in it, but it would make more sense. I could never figure out the torture part of it either, because you don't have a physical body, so how could you feel pain?

You HAVE a physical body.

It just isnt made of these materials as we have it now.

And for those saying "How can an all-loving God punish people in hell":

1. God is NOT all loving. He loves those who love Him. He does NOT love transgressors. He does NOT love Hitler.

2. If there is no Hell, what about Hitler? God is just. Hitler killed MILLIONS of people, then he died. So what, thats it? Where is justice here??

The justice WILL get him - that's why there is Hell.

Whoever does what is just and right, does so for his own good; and whoever does evil, does so to his own hurt; and in the end unto your Sustainer you all will be brought back. (45:15)

And yet they say: “There is nothing beyond our life in this world. We die as we come to life, and nothing but time destroys us.” But of this they have no knowledge whatever: they do nothing but guess. (45:24)

VERILY, as for him who shall appear before his Sustainer lost in sin - his [portion], behold, shall be hell: he will neither die therein nor live. (20:74)