UFO/USO Does Not Mean ET.

Originally posted by hornum

The point is there are often logical answers for things...

Sometimes the 'logical' conclusion is that it is more likely ET than man made. If something displays abilities infinitely more advanced than any known or theoretical human design then sometimes it becomes more logical to think it was ET, because to accept it as man-made stretches credulity to breaking point.

With the man-made idea you are often left with a huge tangle of consequent problems which are very hard to account for. How could we hide this home-grown technology on a relatively small planet? Who is hiding it? Where? How can it be so much more advanced than anything else humans are known to have? How is possible to have two different technological infrastructures (virtually two civilizations) - one being perhaps as advanced from us as we are from the Romans - sharing the same space and yet one of them remaining completely invisible and unknown to the other? Etc.

Now, to accept that TPTB may be hiding some examples of recovered ET tech is one thing, but to account for them secretly creating it all themselves on earth is quite another.

You don't have those particular problems with the ETH. Statistically, the vastness of the universe must be teeming with life. Some of it must be incredibly advanced.

It visited.

Simple. Logical. Neat. Entirely possible.


[edit on 19-6-2010 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Malcram

Originally posted by hornum

The point is there are often logical answers for things...

Sometimes the 'logical' conclusion is that it is more likely ET than man made. If something displays abilities infinitely more advanced than any known or theoretical human design then sometimes it becomes more logical to think it was ET, because to accept it as man-made stretches credulity to breaking point.

With the man-made idea you are often left with a huge tangle of consequent problems which are very hard to account for. How could we hide this home-grown technology on a relatively small planet? Who is hiding it? Where? How can it be so much more advanced than anything else humans are known to have? How is possible to have two different technological infrastructures (virtually two civilizations) - one being perhaps as advanced from us as we are from the Romans - sharing the same space and yet one of them remaining completely invisible and unknown to the other? Etc.

Now, to accept that TPTB may be hiding some examples of recovered ET tech is one thing, but to account for them secretly creating it all themselves on earth is quite another.

You don't have those particular problems with the ETH. Statistically, the vastness of the universe must be teeming with life. Some of it must be incredibly advanced.

It visited.

Simple. Logical. Neat. Entirely possible.


[edit on 19-6-2010 by Malcram]

I concur with you to a certain extent.But then again even the E.T equation that you pose has some problems.

1)If this E.T race is so advanced then what prevents it from making contact if its motives were altrusitic in nature and what prevents it from destroying, subjugating or conquering us?

2)What is the need for them play a game of cat and mice?...It serves very little purpose.

All these alien abductions that are spoken of hint at a very sinister purpose , difficult to fathom...

I understand that having a secret base on land would be difficult but then most of our oceans lie unexplored so it really isn't all that difficult.We also keep hearing stories of strange hums and sounds ...

[edit on 19-6-2010 by Leonardo01]

Originally posted by Leonardo01

I concur with you to a certain extent.But then again even the E.T equation that you pose has some problems.

1)If this E.T race is so advanced then what prevents it from making contact if its motives were altrusitic in nature and what prevents it from destroying, subjugating or conquering us?

Hi.

This question, and the others that follow, aren't 'problems' with regard to the ETH, in the sense of making it less likely, they are just unknowns such as their motivations or their intent. But that doesn't have a bearing on whether they are visiting earth or not.

I understand that having a secret base on land would be difficult but then most of our oceans lie unexplored so it really isn't all that difficult.We also keep hearing stories of strange hums and sounds ...

I think having unknown undersea bases with the kind of comprehensive infrastructure needed to built enough UFO's to account for global sightings is a pretty big 'problem' and is indeed incredibly difficult, not just to accomplish but to accomplish in secret.

I do think that TPTB have some advanced technology we are not generally aware of, but I'm talking about sightings of craft which as so outlandish as to render the notion that they are man made unfeasible, or at least, less likely in some cases than the ETH.


[edit on 19-6-2010 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Malcram

Originally posted by hornum

The point is there are often logical answers for things...

Sometimes the 'logical' conclusion is that it is more likely ET than man made. If something displays abilities infinitely more advanced than any known or theoretical human design then sometimes it becomes more logical to think it was ET, because to accept it as man-made stretches credulity to breaking point.

I accept your idea, do you have some examples? "to accept it as man-made stretches credulity to breaking point". I really don't undertand why you think that man is not capable of these things.Just looking at the US Military for instance it is logical to believe that there are aircraft capable 0f mach 10+ now. I use the SR71 as an example.

With the man-made idea you are often left with a huge tangle of consequent problems which are very hard to account for. How could we hide this home-grown technology on a relatively small planet?

Actually this would be quite easy, the ocean.

Who is hiding it?

I have explained this.

Where? How can it be so much more advanced than anything else humans are known to have?

And this.

How is possible to have two different technological infrastructures (virtually two civilizations) - one being perhaps as advanced from us as we are from the Romans - sharing the same space and yet one of them remaining completely invisible and unknown to the other? Etc.

Easier than you seem to think. The ocean, subterainian.

Now, to accept that TPTB may be hiding some examples of recovered ET tech is one thing, but to account for them secretly creating it all themselves on earth is quite another.

Well that is exactly what I am saying, all of this technology is man made.

You don't have those particular problems with the ETH. Statistically, the vastness of the universe must be teeming with life. Some of it must be incredibly advanced.

Statistically?
Do you accept that statistics can be wrong.

It visited.

Simple. Logical. Neat. Entirely possible.

My thinking is possible, it is just that you chose to believe what you do because in my opinion you need something to hold onto, something to give you hope. Dreams of meeting aliens of their tech. You should really be keeping that hope reserved for mankind.

[edit on 19-6-2010 by Malcram]

Looking for witness' of UFO/USO ET

I am interested in hearing from people who have witnessed a UFO/USO or ET with their own eyes.

one recent example: phoenix lights incident...this was seen by thousands of people, over distances of hundreds of miles between phoenix and tucson, arizona. this was not a mass con job, or a single tin-hatter nut case.

The phoenix lights was in 97' and was witnessed by thousands of people, you would think that something witnessed by so many people there would have been much more footage. The best footage there is does not prove anything. The military say they were flares and looking at what I have seen I would agree, it's just because the footage is so dark it has an effect as they fall behind the mountain range. As for the witness', well I think most of them saw flares and the ones who said the saw a ship fly over their heads are falling into a common occurance of people creating fantasy. This is a possibility, I am not totally dismissing the idea that it was a craft but I would not be led to believe it ET. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by hornum

I accept your idea, do you have some examples? "to accept it as man-made stretches credulity to breaking point". I really don't undertand why you think that man is not capable of these things.

Well, I was talking about sightings where the nature of what was observed renders it virtually impossible that the object is man made. Yes, there are sightings of craft which could feasibly be man made. But there are also some where it is not feasible. There only needs to be one such case and we have to conclude that ET's are responsible for some UFO's. In fact there are many such cases.

Actually this would be quite easy, the ocean.

Hang on, you can't just say "the ocean" and imagine that this answers all of those questions I raised above. It doesn't come close and leaves countless unanswered questions and almost insurmountable problems. I'm not saying it's impossible, just monumentally unlikely.

Statistically? Do you accept that statistics can be wrong.

No, that statistics are correct. But if you mean does the statistical likelihood prove that something has occurred, then no, it just shows it to be very likely.

My thinking is possible

Of course, as is mine. I was discussing sightings in which only one is possible or likely. There are sightings of intelligently controlled UFO's in which the man-made explanation is likely and others where it is truly absurd. There only needs to be one such in which we are forced to conclude it is ET and them your theory is overturned.

Just that you chose to believe what you do because in my opinion you need something to hold onto, something to give you hope. Dreams of meeting aliens of their tech

Well, that's pure invention on your part and has noting to do with our discussion. You don't know me or my beliefs. Let's stay away from attempting to proclaim on each others imagined motivations.


[edit on 19-6-2010 by Malcram]

Originally posted by hornum
Yes I am familiar with buzz's Apollo 11 comments but Buzz himself has confirmed that what he saw was not Unidentified and that it was four detached spacecraft adapter panels.

Really? It's always sad when some of the most important "evidence" is swept under the carpet.. So his statements were taken out of context, making it seem as if he's talking about alien spacecraft..

[edit on 19-6-2010 by Jonas86]

Originally posted by hornum
It's interesting how I have not had one UFO/USO witness yet! Just a bunch of video's from the 90's!

[edit on 19-6-2010 by hornum]

So you've identified my probe, sir?

Originally posted by hornum
So I am interested in hearing people's opinions on why they are convinced that they were ET's.

Is it popular culture that has created this thinking? I think so.

Do you incude the Sumerians, Egyptians, and Mayans as "popular culture"?

Originally posted by Malcram

Originally posted by hornum

I accept your idea, do you have some examples? "to accept it as man-made stretches credulity to breaking point". I really don't undertand why you think that man is not capable of these things.

Well, I was talking about sightings where the nature of what was observed renders it virtually impossible that the object is man made. Yes, there are sightings of craft which could feasibly be man made. But there are also some where it is not feasible. There only needs to be one such case and we have to conclude that ET's are responsible for some UFO's. In fact there are many such cases.

Can you please give me a case. You yourself say that it is “virtually impossible” I would like an example, just one.

Actually this would be quite easy, the ocean.

Hang on, you can't just say "the ocean" and imagine that this answers all of those questions I raised above. It doesn't come close and leaves countless unanswered questions and almost insurmountable problems. I'm not saying it's impossible, just monumentally unlikely.
Please list your questions and I will answer them.

Statistically? Do you accept that statistics can be wrong.

No, that statistics are correct. But if you mean does the statistical likelihood prove that something has occurred, then no, it just shows it to be very likely.

I’m going to leave this one alone. I accept your standing which means it is possible they are of mankind.

My thinking is possible

Of course, as is mine. I was discussing sightings in which only one is possible or likely. There are sightings of intelligently controlled UFO's in which the man-made explanation is likely and others where it is truly absurd. There only needs to be one such in which we are forced to conclude it is ET and them your theory is overturned.

I ask again for an example where we are forced to conclude it is ET.

Just that you chose to believe what you do because in my opinion you need something to hold onto, something to give you hope. Dreams of meeting aliens of their tech

Well, that's pure invention on your part and has noting to do with our discussion. You don't know me or my beliefs. Let's stay away from attempting to proclaim on each others imagined motivations.

No problem.

Thank you
[edit on 19-6-2010 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Jonas86

Originally posted by hornum
Yes I am familiar with buzz's Apollo 11 comments but Buzz himself has confirmed that what he saw was not Unidentified and that it was four detached spacecraft adapter panels.

Really? It's always sad when some of the most important "evidence" is swept under the carpet.. So his statements were taken out of context, making it seem as if he's talking about alien spacecraft..

[edit on 19-6-2010 by Jonas86]

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. Do some research and you will find out for yourself. Let's just say I am familiar with David Morrisons (Interviewer) technique.

Originally posted by Kojiro

Originally posted by hornum
It's interesting how I have not had one UFO/USO witness yet! Just a bunch of video's from the 90's!

[edit on 19-6-2010 by hornum]

So you've identified my probe, sir?

It was more than likely an R/C Helicopter with lights on it. I'm sorry something you saw from inside your apartment flying through the neighborhood that you automatically asume is a "probe" I am not going to take seriosly.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Originally posted by hornum
So I am interested in hearing people's opinions on why they are convinced that they were ET's.

Is it popular culture that has created this thinking? I think so.

Do you incude the Sumerians, Egyptians, and Mayans as "popular culture"?

Many cultures have stories of Gods and the like coming from the stars. You were not there, things get lost in translation etc etc. Not to mention the gaps in our recorded history that I am not going to get started on yet.

I need a witness. Anybody????

Originally posted by hornum

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Originally posted by hornum
So I am interested in hearing people's opinions on why they are convinced that they were ET's.

Is it popular culture that has created this thinking? I think so.

Do you incude the Sumerians, Egyptians, and Mayans as "popular culture"?

Many cultures have stories of Gods and the like coming from the stars.

And why do you think that might be?

I mean, we - modern humans - don't think that, so why would the ancient cultures think that?

And why is believing that Gods or other beings came from the stars any less valid than modern humans believing "God" made the world in seven days, 6000 years ago...?

If you ask me, the beliefs and religions of ancient cultures make more sense than the religions of today.

And why do you think that might be?

I mean, we - modern humans - don't think that, so why would the ancient cultures think that?

And why is believing that Gods or other beings came from the stars any less valid than modern humans believing "God" made the world in seven days, 6000 years ago...?

If you ask me, the beliefs and religions of ancient cultures make more sense than the religions of today.

Actually modern humans do think that, and you are one of them. Man has struggled with trying to understand it's existance for a longtime so this is nothing new. The purpose of this post was to envite people who have had first hand encounters. I am interested in what motivates them to assume they are ET. I will not get into Religion.

I have entertained various posts on here but have yet to have found anyone with a first hand account of a "genuine" ET encounter.



[edit on 19-6-2010 by hornum]

[edit on 19-6-2010 by hornum]

Originally posted by hornum
Actually modern humans do think that, and you are one of them.

First of all, you don't know what I "think". Secondly, we are talking about ancient civilizations that prayed and worshipped beings that came from the stars to the earth and then went back to the stars again. Name me one civilization that still does this, or anything like it?

Originally posted by hornum
Man has struggled with trying to understand it's existance for a longtime so this is nothing new. The purpose of this post was to envite people who have had first hand encounters. I am interested in what motivates them to assume they are ET. I will not get into Religion.

How unfortunate that you will not "get into religion". I would consider religion a very pertinent part of this issue and one that is probably at the very heart of answering your own question.

Originally posted by hornum

The purpose of this post was to envite people who have had first hand encounters. I am interested in what motivates them to assume they are ET.

I have seen something very strange that I can't explain and which I don't feel has a reasonable 'man-made' or 'natural' explanation (unless men are secretly building and piloting huge plasma craft).

To cut it very short, I saw three huge balls of orange 'light' (house sized at the very least) travel over my head, low, completely silently, well below thick cloud cover, their light reflecting on the clouds above.

They weren't lights on something, the something was all light. I could see that clearly. They were traveling horizontally, very fast. One passed over head, then a second or two later another two, traveling together, but staggered slightly, flew over.

The usual 'natural' explanations for balls of light simply don't cut it here.

I don't know what it was. I suspect it was ET but of an order very different to what we usually imagine.

There is a strange animal reaction in the body when your whole system knows you are in proximity to something totally alien to you.


[edit on 19-6-2010 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Malcram

Originally posted by hornum

The purpose of this post was to envite people who have had first hand encounters. I am interested in what motivates them to assume they are ET.

I have seen something very strange that I can't explain and which I don't feel has a reasonable 'man-made' explanation (unless men are secretly building and piloting huge plasma craft).

To cut it very short, I saw three huge balls of orange 'light' (house sized at the very least) travel over my head, low, completely silently, well below thick cloud cover, their light reflecting on the clouds above.

They weren't lights on something, the something was all light. I could see that clearly. They were traveling horizontally, very fast. One passed over head, then a second or two later another two, traveling together, but staggered slightly, flew over.

The usual 'natural' explanations for balls of light simply don't cut it here.

I don't know what it was. I suspect it was ET but of an order very different to what we usually imagine.



[edit on 19-6-2010 by Malcram]

Interesting, where idid this occur? Was it the UK?

[edit on 19-6-2010 by hornum]