US Warns It Cannot Guard Arizona Section of Border

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by guohua

 

Arizona's 1070 is perfectly legal and for Obama to waste the time of his legal staff to investigate the legality of 1070 tells you just how stupid they are.

The way I see it the Fed is merely doing what a State would or should do if they believe the Fed is overstepping its boundaries. In other words, the fed is within its rights within the system we have.

Will the fed prevail? Who knows. Ultimately, the courts will decide.

jam321, States rights is actual law, as in the Supreme Law of the Land. Every state has been guaranteed a republican form of government by the Constitution, and the 10th Amendment makes perfectly clear that states have rights.

My State of Arizona will more than likely win. Yes I truly believe that.

Arizona has not just the 10th Amendment as legal authority, we have our own constitution, and a federal Constitution that guarantees us a republican form of government, which means we have the right and sovereignty to protect our own borders as necessary.
Given that this bill does not in anyway circumvent federal law, there is no way the federal government has a case. In my opinion from what I understand.
From reading and help from Jean Paul Zodeaux ATS memeber.

reply to post by whatukno


I never said the work camps should be run by civilians. I do think they are a good idea, but I would not want the leader of the Minutemen to be in charge. I believe it should be either federal or state run.

Para military drug cartels on our own soil are close enough to terrorist and to let them run lose and not even try to stop them is just the craziest thing I have ever heard.

I agree we should not have extremist doing the roundup but if Our Gov is unwilling and these people are, they might make some dent in the problem.

BTW do you know if these are the same minutemen as in www.minutemanhq.com... ?

reply to post by jam321

However, I am not seeing that pressure. All I see is bashing.

Opinion polls and typing on the internet is not pressure.

I completely agree, more pressure needs to be applied to our federal government to crack down on the problem, the only reason that we have broken borders is because we allow the government to be lax in their duties.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

Para military drug cartels on our own soil are close enough to terrorist and to let them run lose and not even try to stop them is just the craziest thing I have ever heard.

I am of the opinion that these drug cartels are only in business because the American people have a deep desire for illegal drugs. If there were no demand for drugs in this country, there would be no drug cartels. (at least not threatening our borders)

I agree we should not have extremist doing the roundup but if Our Gov is unwilling and these people are, they might make some dent in the problem.

If the government is unwilling, you and everyone else have to make them willing, continuous pressure on your lawmakers will change their minds about doing little to nothing.

BTW do you know if these are the same minutemen as in www.minutemanhq.com... ?

Not entirely sure, from what I gather there are several different chapters to the same group. One such chapter is responsible for a home invasion which killed a child.

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by name pending

 

Well, if they deploy soldiers, it would be in defense of our nation, exactly what our military is for. It would be used for the purpose of defending our country, for once. If your military is not used to defend your country from foreign invasion, then what is the use?
--airspoon

As always, it's difficult to defend you country from people who are hungry and looking to provide for their families. When you describe these people as foreign invaders you make them sound like people who need to be stopped. However, when you describe them as humans who are trying to work for a better life they sound like you and I.

There are just too many ways to look at the situation.

Originally posted by Styki

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by name pending

 

Well, if they deploy soldiers, it would be in defense of our nation, exactly what our military is for. It would be used for the purpose of defending our country, for once. If your military is not used to defend your country from foreign invasion, then what is the use?
--airspoon

As always, it's difficult to defend you country from people who are hungry and looking to provide for their families. When you describe these people as foreign invaders you make them sound like people who need to be stopped. However, when you describe them as humans who are trying to work for a better life they sound like you and I.

There are just too many ways to look at the situation.

Your not getting the picture behind why he said that. He's not talking about the regular illegal immigrants that come here looking for a better way.

He's talking about the trained Mexican para military drug cartels that are right now in Buenos Aries National Park. These people ARE foreign invaders. They have Guns, Big Guns, and explosives and drugs. They have dug in and set up operations to distribute drugs to the American people.

This is a much different situation from the regular people hopping the fence.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

He's talking about the trained Mexican para military drug cartels that are right now in Buenos Aries National Park. These people ARE foreign invaders. They have Guns, Big Guns, and explosives and drugs. They have dug in and set up operations to distribute drugs to the American people.

Isn't that something to think about, if there wasn't such a demand for those drugs in the United States, do you think that drug cartels would be so violent? If drugs were legalized wouldn't it make sense that these gangs would no longer be violent cartels, but instead in the import business?

Could it be, that this is just another part of the failed war on drugs?

So much about this subject has already been covered so many times, but it's not that complicated. Even a young child knows the difference between "can't" and "won't." We teach it to them.

If you sift through all the politics and emotions and apply some basic child-like thinking the message becomes very clear. Our own government has no desire to protect our borders anymore, and for me personally, that disgusts me.

We have the most powerful military in the world, so there is no such thing as "we can't" in this case. It should be translated "we won't." If they "can't" protect our borders from drug cartels then what CAN they protect us from? How long before the drug cartels start lobbing missiles over the border. Will that be another "can't" as well? Better yet, why is the central government even there? That's the main reason they were even formed to begin with.

Yeah, let's just go ahead and show our real enemies around the globe how weak we really are. Way to go. Welcome back, Carter!

reply to post by Atomic Honey


In general, I don't think the drug cartels are going to be lobbing missiles over the border at their potential CUSTOMERS!

They might however take the head off any rednecks that want to go "cowboy" on them.

And BTW, Bush didn't do squat about it either.

[edit on 6/19/2010 by whatukno]

reply to post by whatukno


I get what you're saying, but what I was trying to get at is where do they draw the line? I mean seriously. At what point does this become a national issue? If it's so dangerous that they're warning people not to go there, then why is our military not there? I'm not talking politics here, I'm talking the reality of the fact that Arizona is still part of the US at the moment, and we have a place in our own territory that is soooo dangerous that we "can't" protect our citizens? I'm not taking sides at the moment regarding the illegal immigration stuff, but I really don't get this. If we don't have borders then we no longer have a nation.

reply to post by Atomic Honey


I forgot to mention that yes, I agree with you--Bush didn't do squat about this either. No one in DC will, and that's the whole problem. I'm so sick of politicians pandering for votes instead of making us feel secure. That goes for the donkeys AND the elephants. I hope we throw all the bums out in November. We may lose a couple of good ones, but I'll take my chances with new blood over what we've had the last 20 years any day of the week.

reply to post by Atomic Honey


Don't get me wrong, I agree that the federal government should do something about it, fact of the matter is, it IS their responsibility to.

We don't need Neo Nazi groups or rednecks doing the fighting that our soldiers should be doing. Fact of the matter is, we could save this country a lot of money if we stopped our foreign wars and fixed the holes in the border.

Still doesn't address the root cause of the problem. The cartels wouldn't be in existence if Americans didn't buy drugs by the truckload.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

He's talking about the trained Mexican para military drug cartels that are right now in Buenos Aries National Park. These people ARE foreign invaders. They have Guns, Big Guns, and explosives and drugs. They have dug in and set up operations to distribute drugs to the American people.

Isn't that something to think about, if there wasn't such a demand for those drugs in the United States, do you think that drug cartels would be so violent? If drugs were legalized wouldn't it make sense that these gangs would no longer be violent cartels, but instead in the import business?

Could it be, that this is just another part of the failed war on drugs?

I see you keep bringing that up.

Yes, it's part of the problem in a way and it's sad that people get addicted to drugs. BUT.. and there is a large but here your not taking into account - It's not fair to do nothing about the drug pushers being here illegally and only try to get the addicted off drugs and then perhaps the drug pushers will go away. It does not work like that.

Human nature is such that if there were not illegal drugs Man would invent them. They would grow pot and mushrooms to ingest, drink alcohol etc. This has been true throughout history.

However you can take drug dealers and put them into a clean society and they will get people to use and become addicted to drugs - who had never thought to use them before in their lives. These people are good at that.. it's what they do, it's how they make money. They will not stop doing it as long as they are allowed to push the drugs. It's bad enough we have legal Americans pushing drugs to people, we most certainly do not need illegals with guns pushing drugs to people.

Current demand means nothing to these people. When there is money to be made, they will Create the demand. I live in a place that was void of drugs after Hurricane Katrina. I have seen this happening first hand in many places in my community. These pushers will prey on the people who are tired of the hardships and long for escape. They will create new demand.

I do not believe the drug cartels would be less violent if drugs were legal. In fact, who is going to sell these legal drugs that the government regulates? The cartels? Can't have that.. no way. You cannot take people with gangster mentality and put them in charge of a legal government regulated business. You cannot have the cartels be the importers for the same reasons.

What then? They will see this as competition and money being taken away from their hands. That will cause them to get more violent.



[edit on 19-6-2010 by JohnPhoenix]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Atomic Honey

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree that the federal government should do something about it, fact of the matter is, it IS their responsibility to.

We don't need Neo Nazi groups or rednecks doing the fighting that our soldiers should be doing. Fact of the matter is, we could save this country a lot of money if we stopped our foreign wars and fixed the holes in the border.

Still doesn't address the root cause of the problem. The cartels wouldn't be in existence if Americans didn't buy drugs by the truckload.

I see what you're saying about that, but for me, to be honest, I'm more worried about actual terrorists coming in than the drug cartels. Terrorists read the news too, I imagine, and don't you think a terrorist would see a great opportunity here? Instead of hassling with US customs and no-fly lists, they could just fly into Mexico and bam, you're here. What if the terrorist groups decide to use their money to pay off the drug cartels and allow them to set up camps along the northern border? Instant access to the US. Am I wrong about this possibility?

Originally posted by whatukno
The Federal government should guard the border, failing that, the state should guard the border. NOT a bunch of rednecks and racists.

I think Obama's refusal to do anything about the border is resulting in a rise of said 'rednecks' and 'rascists'.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


The same thing happened in the 20s, in Chicago. At that time, alcohol was the substance that was illegal.

But the people wanted Alcohol, so, (and I am giving you the readers digest version of events) a man by the name of Al Capone decided to supply it for the people.

Along the way, a lot of people died. Capone got arrested for tax evasion, went to Alcatraz for a while, and died in his Florida home of complications from his syphilis.

Well, prohibition ended, and with it, a lot of the criminal activity. (course, mobsters will be mobsters) But criminal activity around the transport and sale of alcohol decreased.

But what was interesting is how those mobsters were able to get away with this stuff for so long, turns out they were bribing the cops to look the other way, seems to me, the same thing could be happening with the drug cartels, they bribe the feds to look the other way, bada bing bada boom, the feds aren't so interested in the border.

The feds make money on the front end from the cartels, and on the back end busting low end pushers and users.

*Please Explain* How is it being a racist wanting to protect one's own country... just because the Goverment, NWO, Illuminati and TPTB, won't and hasn't helped...

reply to post by whatukno


I do not disagree with your story, I know it's true. I have relatives that owns a house in New Orleans Al Capone used to own.. complete with false floor with a long tunnel leading to the sewer system that lead to the river and secret hiding spots and passages all through the house.

Alcohol is bad enough. But that is no reason to let this continue. Many of these illegal drugs are hundreds of times more addictive and dangerous than alcohol. I do not doubt there is some corruption involved but this too must stop. We need stronger leaders and better investigators to uncover the facts of said corruption and take down whatever CIA sanctioned dealings there are. We need the military to do this by force if necessary under the direction of the POTUS.

Either way, we need to go into that national park and drag this people out in body bags if need be.

Originally posted by whatukno
I don't think you all are understanding me well.

I am all for securing the border. I do feel that our government isn't doing enough to protect the border from illegal immigrants crossing over. I do believe they should step up and do what they have to in order to keep illegals out.

HOWEVER.

When you get radical Neo Nazi groups and groups like the Minutemen involved, it's when I get worried. What troubles me more, is when people who are supposed to be free thinkers, praise these fascist slime for what they stand for.

Now, JohnPhoenix, you know as well as I do, that work camps run by civilians would quickly turn into torturous death camps. Especially if you allowed the Minutemen and Neo Nazis to run them.

The Federal government should guard the border, failing that, the state should guard the border. NOT a bunch of rednecks and racists.

Alright so I misinterpreted your position as being pro-illegal, kind of like how you misinterpreted my position as supporting neo-nazis. That being said, how are work camps the same as concentration camps? Is it because they both contain the word camp? Is it because concentration is required for work? Is it because the names given to them sound innocent upon first glance? Please show us on your chalkboard, Mr. Beck.

[edit on 19-6-2010 by technical difficulties]

reply to post by technical difficulties


The United States does not have a perfect track record as far as internment of foreign nationals go. There is Abu Ghraib prison, there were the internment camps during WWII

Put the Minutemen and Neo Nazi's in charge of these "Work Camps" and there will more than likely be gassings before the paint is dry.

Originally posted by grey580
This just goes to show you that the war on drugs is a joke.
and that the country isn't serious about national security.

If I was the governer. I'd issue a state of emergency, recall all national guard troops back home and then send them to the border.

As a USAF vet and a former SIGINT analyst, daily I find my proudest moments of work done for my country were all-in-all for nothing. I now personally struggle to gain my honor back and truly fight for my personal freedoms and my country. The best thing all of us can do is get used to being self-sufficient with water, food, protection and tradeable goods because this system is going down.