Is Race Real?

Is Race A Social Construct?

According to most of the information available online, the general consensus seems to indicate that it is a social construct; that biologically there is no real difference in human beings according to what we'd define as "race". Here is just one of those articles.

Conversely, there are other sites that seem to indicate exactly the opposite and present some fair evidence in favor of their case (i.e. certain races being more subject to certain diseases)

Certainly we all recognize the dangers and problems associated with racism and we demonize the concept accordingly. One has to ask though whether the demonization of racism colors the findings of science in order to attempt to eliminate the concept of race as anything real and/or scientifically significant.

Which is it? Is race just a social construct? Or is race real and definable by genetic differences?

Is race real?

I don't really see the concept of race. It's just really the amount of the pigment melanin in the body, and the different attributes of people from around the world.

Originally posted by Gentill Abdulla
I don't really see the concept of race.

In the overall scheme of things I don't either. But as one of the articles points out certain races are subject to certain diseases. Is this enough to delineate race as real or is it just the result of the mutations which lead to the things we recognize as "race"?

Is the science behind the "social construct" delineation of race motivated by political correctness?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


There are distinct genetic markers created due to breeding within the same pool for hundreds of generations. This is what some refer to as race, imho.

That's evolution though. Some climates and environments cause different genetic needs for a particular group. None is better that the other when compared as a human species as a whole, but they are better suited to their respective climates/environments (as evolution has provided them with ways of sustaining their existence).

We all started out the same (as they believe they found mitochondrial Adam and Eve [not biblical of course, just a metaphor]). After 40k years, our respective ascent out of Africa into other climates altered the genes of those who left, and altered differently depending on climate and environment.

I believe this difference is what race is referred to.



[edit on 6/14/2010 by Arcane Demesne]

It is true that there are eight main races of humans on the earth. These eight can be broken down onto 42 different populations.

I am personally very thankful we are not carbon copies of each other.

When I think about the influence of different races on just my life I realize how boring it would be if we were all one race.

I would like to see more races embellish on their history and traditions. We can and do learn much from those of us that are different.

The eight main races on earth are:
1. African
2. Caucasoid
3. Northeast Asian
4. Arctic
5. American
6. Southeast Asian
7. Oceanian
8. Pacific Asian

I will not list the forty two sub categories from the eight races as I am pushed for time.

Each race has a rich and diverse culture that enriches us all.

Race is not a bad thing. Some members of races cause problems between races that should never occur.

Be proud of your race. Learn all there is to know about your heritage.

Races are like flowers. All are beautiful but it would be very sad if there was only one type of flower on earth. So it is with races.

As much as I might agree that what race is have become harder and harder to define, it seems that Cycle Cell Anemia still see race so I usually concede to nature and things that can kill. That is just me though.

Race is real until we can simply be named as human. This of course won't happen until some other intelligent species from elsewhere gives us the opportunity to reclassify ourselves.

If an intelligent being from outside Earth drops by for a visit and makes itself plainly obvious to the "Human Race", at that moment I am no longer describing myself as having an ethnicity because I am one thing only: Human.

Otherwise race shouldn't be real. Whether we are dark or light skinned, blonde, brunette, or otherwise, we are all known as homo sapiens.

However, as a counter argument I can mention breeds of dog. Canis familiaris is the species name of both a Doberman and a Labrador. But they are obviously not the same race of dog if race and breed are to be used interchangeably.

Yet even if we thought not in terms of race, but in terms of breed, there would still exist the idea of a pedigree, hence keeping racial divides relevant.

While I think we should be able to move beyond racism I feel that humanity won't exactly let it die. Once life outside of Earth classifies us, we might just move onto an idea that already exists, but there doesn't seem to be a word for. I call it "specism", and the human race practices it when it decides what organisms are worth protecting or keeping from becoming extinct over others. Or towards termites for instance, which we pay another human to kill.

We might experience "specism" towards us in the future when some otherworldly intelligence decides we as a species are expendable.

My answer: Breed and race are the same thing. Via binomial nomenclature they do not exist, but it is scientifically real. Unfortunately we made it a social construct, allowing us to form judgement about the races. This judgement can promote hatred, stereotypes, and racism.

Edit: Grammatical error

[edit on 14-6-2010 by danj3ris]

Why shouldn't there be different races of humans? There are different races of animals too, like different cats, different dogs and so on.

I mean, sadly with all the political correctness and stuff going on, it is a touchy subject and everything you say can and will be used against you, but i do believe that humans are different.
Black People, White People, Asians, they don't look the same, they're different, they are basically different in their behavious, social aspects - maybe even in the "we don't want to hear it" aspects like intelligence, strength...whatever. I mean there must be a reason why (it's just my point of view) there are more thinkers and inventors under white people, but more strong and physical ones under black people. A White Guy will never run as fast as a black one, a white one may not be as strong
Just think about boxing, who were the most dominant boxers? Joe Louis? Muhammad Ali? Mike Tyson? Evander Holyfield? All Black and then you have white people dominant in other field be it as inventors, poets, stuff like that, guys like Tesla, Einstein, Edison and so on where white after all.
Isn't for example American Football a good example? The best Quarterbacks where white, while the best wide receivers and basically all positions that need fast running or strength were dominated by black people.
No i don't want to say that black people are stupid, there are also some great thinker, great musicians and everything, as there are some good white boxers or whatever, but it's a good example i think.

So i just say, we are just like the animals. Like there are different dogs with different abilities, different characteristics, there are different humans and just like a Cocker Spaniel doesn't look like a Shepherd Dog.

Race is definitely real. People are afraid to say this because they are afraid of the social implications.

As another poster pointed out, it's basically the result of divergent gene pools. After humans began to spread out to other parts of the world, they became isolated, with each group of humans beginning to evolve separately.

If intelligence and civilization hadn't united man and this isolation remained for, oh, a million years or so, you would probably see completely different species. As it stands, it's more like different "breeds" closely-related enough to be capable of crossbreeding.

The issue is a bit cloudy because many people have genes from all sorts of ethnicities combined, but there really are lots of obvious differences between the races (generally speaking), for those not afraid to see them.

Maybe the problem is not race but people and their negativity. Why does race have to be a bad thing? Why does it need to be done away with? We all know that there will always be ways to divide people. There will always be the haves and have nots. There will always be greasers and soshes (not sure how to spell a made up word from such an old movie). There will always be jocks and nerds, boy and girls, hippies and conservatives, etc. All I think that would happen will be us finding other reasons to hate each other. We are really good at that.

Race should be celebrated. Whatever happened to the idea of embracing what makes you unique and being proud of it? I am white - German/Irish, so transparent really. I go from pale to sunburn in a very short period of time. I cannot really go out in the sun without lots of protection. I can only see advantages in having such melanin rich skin that I need never worry. At the same time, I have naturally soft blond hair that is quite long. That is a feat not easily pulled off by a black person. I like my hair but I hate being sunburn. The way I see it, I am not better or less, I am different with my own disadvantages and advantages - which are pretty much in the eye of the beholder anyway.

As well, I would not really appreciate my skin and my hair if I had nothing to contrast it with. The same reason I usually find more beauty in females of different races than my own. If they were pale and blond like me, well I got that already. I don't want to look at more of that. I want to see different skin, eyes, types of hair. Kinda like you cannot appreciate dark without light and vice versa. Maybe I am way off.

I know socio-political factors make that a much different discussion but I am just saying on a personal level. I love the variety in humanity. I would find it hard to appreciate who I am if I were just one of a billions just like me. Who wants that?

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne
I believe this difference is what race is referred to.

So what we call race are simply small mutations that helped us in environments other than the savannas we were typically accustomed to? I can understand that. Are those mutations enough to scientifically delineate "races" of people? Or not?

My understanding of biological sciences is admittedly elementary. The internet has conflicting views on this subject, more favoring the "there are no races" hypothesis.

Race is not real and telling this to a census worker makes them very mad. They want to give everyone an ethnicity and a race when I choose not to have either.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

So what we call race are simply small mutations that helped us in environments other than the savannas we were typically accustomed to?

In my mind, yes, that's what we've come to create the word 'race' to mean.

I can understand that. Are those mutations enough to scientifically delineate "races" of people? Or not?

That's really a question for an individual. In some cases I can see it having value. The most prominent being medical issues like genetic disorders.

But other stuff can factor is as well. Light skin and hair are good for cold climate, dark skin and hair are good for hot climate. Though the intricacies are probably more than I can imagine. But if you look at this subject in larger time variations...If you put a group of Africans in Norway for 10K years, and have them breed within their own stock, will they eventually come to resemble, and possibly be indistinguishable from the native population there?

Of course, they would need to match EXACT conditions (food supply, weather, etc) to be a controlled study, but my gut feeling says yes. In 10K years, their genetic codes would alter them to better suit their new environment (though it seems that Europeans got lighter the farther north they traveled, so it may not work with a quick drop off, but over time). Actually, the same goes for Asians, the farther north you go, the lighter they get. Obviously they keep their 'Asiatic' (for less of a better term) features, but with lighter skin, as those features were contained in the gene pool before the move north.

Where was I going with this...oh yes.

It wouldn't do us any good to put our heads in the sand and pretend we're not different. Just as it doesn't do us any good using said differences as an excuse for superiority.

So, yes, I think there are defined (if not super muddied up by now) 'sects' of humanity caused by gene variation. And it's not good or bad. It just is. Deal with that however you can.

My understanding of biological sciences is admittedly elementary. The internet has conflicting views on this subject, more favoring the "there are no races" hypothesis.

I'm not a biological geneticist either. I just love to read. And that's why I love this site. After you sift through the garbage (not directed at you of course, this is a good topic), this site can have profound ways of making you rethink your own perspective on life.

The "race is a social construct" idea comes from the Out of Africa theory, which has too many unanswered questions. Not enough fossils to prove anything. Why do abductees report seeing ETs that look exactly like us if we evolved from apes on the African continent? Then there are ETs who look different but with similar body structure (i.e the Greys). There are so many reasons why TPTB would want to hide the real history of our origins.

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne
It wouldn't do us any good to put our heads in the sand and pretend we're not different. Just as it doesn't do us any good using said differences as an excuse for superiority.

Agree 100%. We all know how racism in the truest sense (belief in the superiority of one race over another) has affected millions of people, Hitler and the KKK by themselves arrive at those high numbers. Since the debate over race is not squarely settled it got me thinking as to whether the science behind confirming or denying the existence to race could be motivated by the politically correct villainization of racism.

I'm not a biological geneticist either. I just love to read. And that's why I love this site. After you sift through the garbage (not directed at you of course, this is a good topic), this site can have profound ways of making you rethink your own perspective on life.

Again agreed. I've had some of my viewpoints changed as a result of ATS. Love it here.

Originally posted by xkiax
Why do abductees report seeing ETs that look exactly like us if we evolved from apes on the African continent?

Because human beings anthropomorphise the universe, always have and always will. There is no particular reason that any extraterrestrials (should they exist) should come in the form of bipedal hominids.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


I'm going by abductee reports. By ETs I meant bipedal humanoid ETs, not all organic life outside earth. The rest of this post is speculation. Human races are related to ET races. It's possible our origins go back further than 1-2 million years. Different races are able to reproduce with each other. Which means they come from the same genetic source, which could go back say 50+ million years from somewhere in space. If environment can create changes in human appearance then it's possible we are very distant relatives of ETs such as the Greys. If you take one race of humans, drop them off on another earth like planet, their appearance is not going to stay the same after million years of evolution.

There is only one race on this Earth and it's the Human race. We are all humans, every one of us has the same capabilities as any other human, it's just the environment we're born into that determines which attributes and qualities come through.

Being "proud" of your race only creates separation. Be proud to be HUMAN. And be considerate of the infinite differences each human on Earth can have..

Until everyone starts seeing everyone else as just HUMANS and not black, white, red, yellow or whatever.. There will be separation.

Unity is the only way the human organism will ever progress, let alone survive..

I love you all regardless of any difference.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Genetically speaking the traits we deem as race make up an insignificant portion of a person's overall genome. While its true that as we migrated out of Africa and populations became isolated from one another some minor evolution did occur most of those changes are superficial physical ones and those that go deeper (such as the Tibetan genes that allow them to spend prolonged periods at high altitude) are not part of what defines race as a social construct.

Its my opinion that race might as well not exist, its an arbitrary divider based on superficial gene expression. Plus as the world becomes more interconnected the race lines begin to blur.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Genetically speaking the traits we deem as race make up an insignificant portion of a person's overall genome. While its true that as we migrated out of Africa and populations became isolated from one another some minor evolution did occur most of those changes are superficial physical ones and those that go deeper (such as the Tibetan genes that allow them to spend prolonged periods at high altitude) are not part of what defines race as a social construct.

Its my opinion that race might as well not exist, its an arbitrary divider based on superficial gene expression. Plus as the world becomes more interconnected the race lines begin to blur.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

Very well put.